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Anybody notice anything interesting about this PCGS graded Saint?

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  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>image

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330167629295

    Russ, NCNE >>




    The cert number is a different date coin:

    COIN INFORMATION
    Cert Verification #: 50206250
    Date, mintmark: 1922
    Denomination: $20
    Variety:
    Pedigree:
    Country: The United States of America
    Grade: MS64
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The color also looks funny.
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275 ✭
    The coin went rather cheaply for a 64!!!
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Rampage got part of it.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I did not even bother looking at the PCGS price guide, but the price difference between a 22 and an 09 in 64 is a bunch! $1,300 for a 1922 and $8500 for a 1909. So, am I to assume that if the coin truly is an MS64 and a 1909, then the buyer got a good deal? I don't do gold.
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin number on the label is correct at 9150.
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin number on the label is correct at 9150. >>



    That number is correct, the "6" isn't. It's been photoshopped in. Should be an 8.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • USAROKUSAROK Posts: 887 ✭✭✭
    The coin number (9150) on the holder is for a 1909 but the cert number (50206250) lookup shows this as a 1922.

    Edited to add: You guys are to quick for me.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin went rather cheaply for a 64!!! >>




    I'd say so.
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,512 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The coin number on the label is correct at 9150. >>



    That number is correct, the "6" isn't. It's been photoshopped in. Should be an 8.

    Russ, NCNE >>




    Are you talking about where it says coin: 6? Very interesting. So, what do you think is going on here? Scam?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i><< The coin went rather cheaply for a 64!!! >>

    I'd say so. >>



    Except that the buyer will likely get nothing.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are you talking about where it says coin: 6? Very interesting. So, what do you think is going on here? Scam? >>



    Yep, scam. Here's a legit one:

    image

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,115 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the guys who have to sit in the back of the class.

    Is that a mechanical error on the date?

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>For the guys who have to sit in the back of the class.

    Is that a mechanical error on the date? >>



    No. It's a photoshop job by the seller.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • flydocflydoc Posts: 124
    If you look closely at the 6 after Coin: then you see the obvious scam. It got a strange array of pixels around it and the number sits below the horizon of the other numbers.
    The number is even brighter than the others.
    image
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Are you talking about where it says coin: 6? Very interesting. So, what do you think is going on here? Scam? >>



    Yep, scam. Here's a legit one:


    Russ, NCNE >>




    I see that it looks like a hijacked account along with his last coin sale conspirator but why would the holder be a clue?
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>For the guys who have to sit in the back of the class.

    Is that a mechanical error on the date? >>



    No. It's a photoshop job by the seller.

    Russ, NCNE >>




    Another reason to avoid purchasing on ebay from unknowns.
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭
    Very interesting and nice forensics work Russ. I'd be curious to know how it transpires. In reviewing the seller's feedback history, I'm not seeing any blatant red flags but sellers are getting more and more creative these days. I hope, for the buyers sake, that all goes smoothly and as they say in almost every Brady Bunch episode, "There must be some logical explanation".image

    Edited to say: I've now reviewed the other auctions and the various bidders...image
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Very interesting and nice forensics work Russ >>



    I can't take credit for the work. I picked it up in a thread over on the eBay coin forum.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>and as they say in almost every Brady Bunch episode, "There must be some logical explanation". >>



    ebaytrader already posted the logical explanation. It's a hijacked account.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • dizzyfoxxdizzyfoxx Posts: 9,823 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>and as they say in almost every Brady Bunch episode, "There must be some logical explanation". >>



    ebaytrader already posted the logical explanation. It's a hijacked account.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    image
    image...There's always time for coin collecting. image
  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So did someone notify the buyer? I hope so.

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So did someone notify the buyer? I hope so. >>



    Yes. In fact, I'd guess the poor buyer has been buried in eMails. image

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • PentimentoPentimento Posts: 1,367
    image

    blown up and contrast increased. Wouldn't have really revealed anything without the other detective work IMO, could have just as easily been just bad JPGing... but I did it for fun so I'll post it.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>image

    blown up and contrast increased. Wouldn't have really revealed anything without the other detective work IMO, could have just as easily been just bad JPGing... but I did it for fun so I'll post it. >>

    Damn, can bad JPG really be that bad? Should eBay have a built-in feature like Heritage and other auction sites that lets you zoom into photos?
    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    If ebays new TPG system was set up so you enter the cert number and it fills in the rest then it would have come up with the wrong date. (I think it does that but only for NGC?)

    That would have flagged the seller to pick a cert number that matched what he wanted so it might not help stop this.

    For this one if the bidder would have bothered to look up the cert number he would have known something fishy was going on. I'd even look it up for a cheap coin.

    image
    Ed
  • SUMORADASUMORADA Posts: 4,797 ✭
    Wow...I feel like.........i'm un-armed..........in a gun fight....I would never have picked up on any of this........thanks Russ!
    coins on ebay
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    The seller / conman did a lot of work for nothing. He could have just ripped-off pics from whomever and saved himself the photoshopping. Crooks are idiots. If they put as much effort into trying to make an honest living as they do scamming, they'd probably be well on their way to a very comfortable lifestyle.
  • RotatedRainbowsRotatedRainbows Posts: 2,085 ✭✭


    << <i>The seller / conman did a lot of work for nothing. He could have just ripped-off pics from whomever and saved himself the photoshopping. Crooks are idiots. If they put as much effort into trying to make an honest living as they do scamming, they'd probably be well on their way to a very comfortable lifestyle. >>



    What do you mean crooks are idiots?? Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Rocket Scientists
  • GemineyeGemineye Posts: 5,374 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>and as they say in almost every Brady Bunch episode, "There must be some logical explanation". >>



    ebaytrader already posted the logical explanation. It's a hijacked account.

    Russ, NCNE >>


    Great detective work Russ.......image
    ......Larry........image
  • BloodManBloodMan Posts: 1,836 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I debated on a coin offered last week from the same seller. It was an 1853-O $20 NGC XF45 (link below). Too many red flags kept me from bidding.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330166657812&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=014

    1) The title was simply “1853-O $20.” No mention of NGC.
    2) Very few recent coin sales with positive feedback, except a 1912 1C MS66 Red PCGS
    3) Email to recent buyer of an expensive coin was not answered (1652 Pine Tree Shilling in AU)
    4) Strange description stated, “If using paypal payment, please allow an additional 5-7 days for payment to clear”.

    The coin eventually sold for a bargain price of $1,725. Glad I missed this “great” deal.

    Thanks for posting Russ.
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,115 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The seller / conman did a lot of work for nothing. He could have just ripped-off pics from whomever and saved himself the photoshopping. Crooks are idiots. If they put as much effort into trying to make an honest living as they do scamming, they'd probably be well on their way to a very comfortable lifestyle. >>



    What do you mean crooks are idiots?? Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Rocket Scientists >>



    That's dumb image



    even dumber

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Russ. I appreciate the heads up with this thread.

    ``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5

  • OPAOPA Posts: 17,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some other poor sucker also got taken by the same con man for a 1995-W ASE.... ended auction link

    The slab belongs to a: 1905 $5 Liberty...

    It pays to spend a few minutes to confirm the slab #....in addition, since when did PCGS use the "old green holders" in 1996?

    I suspect all of his slabbed items are phony as a $3 bill....
    "Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
  • CgbCgb Posts: 710 ✭
    Thanks for the info Russ...

    This is devious even for eBay.

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