Why are ICG graders numismatic celebrities, while PCGS and NGC graders are generally unknown?

Longacre

Believe it or not, I like to read the ads in Coin World and see the different approaches that firms and dealers take. For example, I have written in the past how much I like Richard Nachbar's ads, which are very well done.

I noticed that the grading services take a very different approach to advertising. Let's take ICG for instance. In almost every issue, there is a full page advertisement, with very large pictures of their graders contained in the ad, along with their names. In fact, before every large show, there is usually a full page announcement that our very own Cammy will be attending the show and providing grading opinions, again with a very large picture. No doubt this is published to notify the throngs of Cammy Groupies™ that typically follow him around and flood the show.

Other services, such as PCGS and NGC, do not show or make reference to the individual graders. Personally, I wouldn't know a PCGS or NGC grader if I tripped over him on the bourse floor.

Does anyone have any comments as to why the firms take different approaches to advertising (i.e., a more personalized touch by showing the graders, versus a more corporate approach stressing the firm itself, rather than the individual graders)?

DoubleEagle59

I think anonymity is best for the top grading services. I think knowing who grades your coins can lead to problems.

Approximately twenty years ago the top grading lab in the world for Diamonds (GIA; Gemological Institute of America) stopped having their graders sign the grading report, thus identifying themselves. I believe they were having problems of complaints and even perhaps bribery implications (only rumors I've heard) directed at the specific individuals.

Whether or not this happens with coin graders, is not for me to speculate.

But I think it's much better not to know the identity of the grader/s.

ColonialCoinUnion

I've always wondered about this - clearly ICG sees some benefit to having their graders front and center.

TwoSides2aCoin

A company maintains high standards and protects it's employees.
Another company hires high standards and advertises that. It's pretty simple as that goes.

ajia

Maybe it's because once a 'favorite' grader is found at a top tier TPG submissions will start pouring in requesting that grader.

Where I work we started identifing which printer was creating printouts for clients (we have 4 printers). Each printed very, very slightly different.
Once clients had their favorite they started request that printer. Too much hassle, so we took off the printer ID.

Mowgli

From an advertising point of view, knowing who the graders are doesn't tell you who graded your coin. I think it makes the company seem more open and less mysterious as to who does their grading. I cannot imagine not wanting to know the qualifications of the person(s) who did the grading especially as it relates to a particular series since some of them have different standards for different modifications of their design. If they were to actually put their name on the plastic I would hope that it would remind them that they are accountable for their grades. If people started requesting them, then the TPG should consider retraining them as they must be getting too loose. Being able to meet the graders at a show seems like a good idea to me as I cannot imagine not having questions about how people grade. Clearly it hasn't made ICG better than PCGS or NGC but it could improve the higher tier TPG's image with the public.

Heywood

If a company has less submissions, they can advertise their graders.

Companies that strive to maintain consistency over time will state that the grader doesn't matter if the standards are upheld.

( I am sure PCGS and NGC have many junior graders helping out with the coin show bulk submissions)

Also, what happens when a high profile grader that you spent money promoting decides to jump ship? that will not reflect well on your companies future grading ability.

guitarwes

I think it's a good personal marketing ploy.


How old is Cammy anyway? He looks barely old enough to shave.

wes

JimDepot

<< <i>Maybe it's because once a 'favorite' grader is found at a top tier TPG submissions will start pouring in requesting that grader.

Where I work we started identifing which printer was creating printouts for clients (we have 4 printers). Each printed very, very slightly different.
Once clients had their favorite they started request that printer. Too much hassle, so we took off the printer ID. >>



Why not upgrade all of the printers to the specs that your customers want?


Robert Nardelli running your business?



Sorry, long story.

ricko

Most good companies will promote their staff - it adds to consumer confidence, especially within an industry (i.e. aerospace, printed circuits etc). Firms with well known technological resources, R&D gurus, management icons, get a lot of industry press and it attracts more business. All part of sales and advertising. Cheers, RickO

DoubleEagle59

Promotion of one's staff is a good thing....such as credentials needed for the job; education requirements; strict quality controls, etc...

but I still think it's wrong and detrimental for your business to identify the individual grading your coin.

PerryHall

Maybe the principals of NGC and PCGS don't want to share the limelight with their graders.

BigE

It's because pcgs graders are too busy to get a haircut or shave and they only have Hawiian shirts----------------------------BigE

fivecents

<< <i>It's because pcgs graders are too busy to get a haircut or shave and they only have Hawiian shirts----------------------------BigE >>

Yes, but they have great tans from sitting in front of the bright grading light all day long.

Doogy

smaller, independent companies (pick an industry) have done quite well in putting a "face" on their service, playing down the faceless corporations they are competing against. NGC and PCGS are both held by publicly traded companies, and are both already considered at the top of their game by the market. what do they care if you know who the graders are? by contrast, ICG will probably get more business by playing up the "familiar face" role and their independent nature, at least to a certain segment that may be tired of the typical TPG assembly line type operation.

WTCG

Remember that just like in the case of O.J. Simpson, Kevin Federline and others, celebritydom is not always a good thing. A grader that is "promoted" by forced advertising does not mean that he is a very good grader.

The frequent submitters to PCGS and NGC all know who the sharpest graders are. Perhaps it is better that the renowned expert graders remain unknown for the sake of not having an entourage follow them around incessantly asking them for their "opinions" of their coins.

Without any disrespect to Cammy and his abilities, I would much more likely trust the expertise of Mike Sargent, Jim Young or Ryan Carroll over Cammy.

SeattleSlammer

The frequent submitters to PCGS and NGC all know who the sharpest graders are

yup, those are the graders that agree with our grade of the coin.

PrivateCoinCollector

One word. Marketing.

But let me tell you a story that is not to OT. When I was at ANA this summer I was in a grading class. One of the instructors was from ICG. Sharp young guy who could really grade. Everyone afforded him respect and all was well. On the third day, we had a special guest come in an talk to us. He was a grader from PCGS. Now this guy was treated like royalty. The questions were endless and everyone maintained rapt attention. It was a great seminar, but I think if I had to pick who are the "rock stars" of the coin world, it is the PCGS guys.

WTCG

<< <i>The frequent submitters to PCGS and NGC all know who the sharpest graders are

yup, those are the graders that agree with our grade of the coin. >>



Although there are a few collectors (very few) with excellent grading skills, essentially all of the sharpest known graders are full time graders or wholesalers.

JustBustDimes

<< <i>I think it's a good personal marketing ploy.


How old is Cammy anyway? He looks barely old enough to shave.

wes >>



I believe Cameron is about 25. If I recall correctly, a couple of us tried to get Cameron in a bar in Colorado Springs in 2001. I think he was 19 at the time. We failed to get him in the bar, so we bought a case of beer and headed to a room. After a beer and a half, Cameron was dancing in the halls, wearing a skirt, and singing "Funky Cool Medina."

I do not think he shaves yet!

19Lyds

I think ICG does this just to get submissions. They have to compete against PCGS and NGC so why not add value to your grading by letting folks know exactly who is looking at your coins?

PerryHall

Didn't Cameron get married a few months ago?

JustBustDimes

<< <i>Didn't Cameron get married a few months ago? >>



yes

tahoe98

<< <i>Promotion of one's staff is a good thing....such as credentials needed for the job; education requirements; strict quality controls, etc...

but I still think it's wrong and detrimental for your business to identify the individual grading your coin. >>




it may be unsafe also.......................depending on the grade received.