I'm convinced that there is no law that says I have to pay *income* tax; however, I do not have the guts or finances to not pay and face consequences. I do believe that other taxes are legal, such as the sales tax and property tax.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
Before we do that, let's go out on a positive note concerning the original topic. Larry Kudlow's follow up on the 50 bps cut:
Confidence Returns [Larry Kudlow]
The rally in gold in recent days is telling the Fed that the 50 basis point shock and awe rate cut is sufficient. Gold’s rally is putting a floor underneath the fed funds rate. I’m okay with that. The Treasury yield curve is now nicely upward-sloping. It is normalizing. That’s a good sign for future growth.
As reported in this morning’s Wall Street Journal, credit markets have revived following the Fed move. Bond sales are resuming. Yields on corporate bonds and loans have moved lower. The commercial paper market is improving. The LIBOR rate has dropped by 35 basis points.
Confidence is returning.
**NOTE**: Inflation indexes are running around 2-percent for the CPI, PPI, and imported prices. World stock markets surged on the Fed rate cut. In the US, if stocks truly believed big inflation was on its way, they’d be falling not rising. After all, the capital gains tax is not indexed for inflation.
Right now the dollar is soft and gold is strong. This is more a liquidity warning sign than anything else. Over time, as US growth and investment picks up, there will be stronger dollar demand. Additional capital formation will soak up any liquidity excess. In other words, a growth solution.
Meanwhile, low unemployment claims suggest something like 100,000 new jobs per month.
The story looks just fine to me. And I’m waiting for Europe and England to lower their own interest rates.
Good points, but you ignore the fact that the US now relies on selling billions in debt to other countries every month to keep this country going. Other countries are going to stop buying the debt the lower the interest rates go. They are already losing money based on exchange rates, now they will be losing because they are buying US debt instead of debt from other countries who are paying better rates.
What will happen when no one will buy our debt?
The fed will print more money. And more money, and more, and more.
Why do you think they stopped publishing the M3? They're hiding something.
What's going to happen as they print more money? Inflation. Hyper inflation...
All you have to do is look at Zimbabwe. Their market didn't crash - it went up along with the currency, but gold rose faster.
<< <i>Good points, but you ignore the fact that the US now relies on selling billions in debt to other countries every month to keep this country going. Other countries are going to stop buying the debt the lower the interest rates go. They are already losing money based on exchange rates, now they will be losing because they are buying US debt instead of debt from other countries who are paying better rates.
What will happen when no one will buy our debt?
The fed will print more money. And more money, and more, and more.
>>
It's not unreasonable to fear a death spiral for the dollar. The feds cut interest rates to bail out the stock market and housing, but that cheapens the dollar as seen by the moves in metals and oil. But the buyers of our debt will want HIGHER interest rates to compensate for the declining dollar. When the holders of our debt realize that continuing to hold dollars is giving them a negative real return, they will convert their dollars to euros, gold, oil, etc. The flood of depreciated dollars coming home will be a painful payback for 20 years of out of control domestic spending, out of control trade deficits, irresponsible tax cuts, decimation of our manufacturing base, and our invasion of Iraq.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
I'm glad to see that the open forum is alive and well.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Open forum? Nah. This is just an sprig from the 4000 post "gold and economy" thread. Let's not forget that gold is a big driver in our coin market. Regardless of which was it goes, it affects all of our coins making them cheaper or more expensive.
Before we do that, let's go out on a positive note concerning the original topic. Larry Kudlow's follow up on the 50 bps cut:
Confidence Returns [Larry Kudlow]
The rally in gold in recent days is telling the Fed that the 50 basis point shock and awe rate cut is sufficient. Gold’s rally is putting a floor underneath the fed funds rate. I’m okay with that. The Treasury yield curve is now nicely upward-sloping. It is normalizing. That’s a good sign for future growth.
As reported in this morning’s Wall Street Journal, credit markets have revived following the Fed move. Bond sales are resuming. Yields on corporate bonds and loans have moved lower. The commercial paper market is improving. The LIBOR rate has dropped by 35 basis points.
Confidence is returning.
Crudlowe is a crackpot of major proprotions. Nothing more than a shill for the Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Stanleys, Citi's, and other brokerages. When he retires they will have a golden parachute waiting for him with open arms. If he's not on the FED's, Treasury's or Bush's payroll he should be. All Crudlowe has said is that a lit charge of significant proportion was set off behind the lemmings to get them moving once again towards the sea wall. None of those lemmings is making a peep or complaining. Confidence is high.
**NOTE**: Inflation indexes are running around 2-percent for the CPI, PPI, and imported prices. World stock markets surged on the Fed rate cut. In the US, if stocks truly believed big inflation was on its way, they’d be falling not rising. After all, the capital gains tax is not indexed for inflation.
Markets can be wrong on the main trend for far longer than you or I have money to spend. The sub-prime/credit/commercial paper/derivatives contagian has just been unleashed. There will be much larger fall out from these in the coming years. And we'll live through it, though many retirement accounts will be stripped bare.
2007 is just the first blip in sub-prime and mortgage problems. The rate cut "convinced" the masses that all is well with the remaining $500 TRILL in derivatives and that the FED will "bail us out" of any new problems. I applaud their confidence in the FED.
Meanwhile, low unemployment claims suggest something like 100,000 new jobs per month.
Obviously a believer in the BLS Birth/Death model forumula that adds 1,000,000 jobs per year to the payrolls based on black boxes rather than real head counting. Yes, the BD Model "ensures" 80,000 jobs per month on average even during a depression. So only 20,000 "real" new jobs need to be added (nothing will be mentioned on the jobs lost though). It just may take a year or two to "fix" the BD model as the recession gets recongized. If you take out the BDM just created in 2007, at this point we'd show a net loss. Recall that the BDM was created for a healthy, growing economy. Won't it be inaccurate during periods of very slow to a contraction?
The story looks just fine to me. And I’m waiting for Europe and England to lower their own interest rates.
It's a great story. Taxpayers running on a major lending/derivatives banker in Britain to the tune of $2 BILLION. The govt basically seized the bank by guaranteeing all deposits. They can print as much money as needed now to pay off further depositors (lol). And they can always eat cake if they run out of bread.
<< <i>It's not unreasonable to fear a death spiral for the dollar. The feds cut interest rates to bail out the stock market and housing, but that cheapens the dollar as seen by the moves in metals and oil. But the buyers of our debt will want HIGHER interest rates to compensate for the declining dollar. When the holders of our debt realize that continuing to hold dollars is giving them a negative real return, they will convert their dollars to euros, gold, oil, etc. The flood of depreciated dollars coming home will be a painful payback for 20 years of out of control domestic spending, out of control trade deficits, irresponsible tax cuts, decimation of our manufacturing base, and our invasion of Iraq. >>
Yep. The US has spent decades putting our debt into every corner of the globe. Almost every country owns lots of it. They are not only going to stop buying it, they are going to start dumping their holdings when they see how much money the US is printing. Some countries have already started decoupling themselves from the dollar. This is just the beginning.
And along with our country selling off infrastructure to foreign entities.... how about the deal being worked on to sell 20% of Nasdaq to Dubai?? I realize it is not likely to be an outright sale.... and involves some horse trading.... but I still get uncomfortable when we sell off portions of our institutions....
<< <i>And along with our country selling off infrastructure to foreign entities.... how about the deal being worked on to sell 20% of Nasdaq to Dubai?? I realize it is not likely to be an outright sale.... and involves some horse trading.... but I still get uncomfortable when we sell off portions of our institutions....
Meanwhile, we have coins for the kids .. Can anyone address how the seller is able to post these photos and yet he's selling an unopened box ? Is that trickery or what ? Isn't this illegal ?
<<Milk is well over $4 a gallon now which is much higher the last year alone. >>
Just went to my local 'ole supermarket, Kroger. Milk was $3.49 a gallon.
The problem with healthcare, to change the subject, is there needs to be competitive pricing. Ask anyone what procedures cost, or what it cost to go to the doctor, and they will tell you, "I don't know, insurance covers it". (ummm, those that have insurance).
For fun, I decided to call 3 places what an MRI (for a head check/past injury) would cost, and that I had no insurance. They ALL answered with, "Your insurance will cover it, I don't know what the cost is exactly", EVEN AFTER I SAID I HAVE NO INSURANCE!!!!! Can u believe it???
Then, I got prices of $2000, $1800 and $1200!!!!
But those that have insurance, COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE COST OF SEEING THE DOC/ PROCEDURES ARE!!!
60 minutes had a spot on "grocery insurance". Say you had an insurance monthly premium to "cover" your grocery shopping. If you didnt need to check or know the cost of your food, wouldn't you just throw prime ribs, lobsters, etc. into your cart???
Laser surgery for your eyes is not covered by insurances. It is a "cosmetic" elective... 5 years ago, an eye lasered was $2500. Today it is about $300-400.
Years ago when you went to the doctor, you had to pay for it. You asked how much it cost. Today everyone is hoping for a universal healthcare system, to make sure you still do not need the responsibility to shop for the cost...
...let the wealthy make their money and pay for it for you...
If Canada's "excellent" healthcare system is so great, why do so many cross the bridge to Michigan to get care???
Healthcare an inflationary catagory because of those reasons. Should at least be a cap (starting to) on what is covered per visit/procedure. Then maybe overall premiums will go down, and less would cry about it.
<< <i><<Milk is well over $4 a gallon now which is much higher the last year alone. >>
Just went to my local 'ole supermarket, Kroger. Milk was $3.49 a gallon.
The problem with healthcare, to change the subject, is there needs to be competitive pricing. Ask anyone what procedures cost, or what it cost to go to the doctor, and they will tell you, "I don't know, insurance covers it". (ummm, those that have insurance).
For fun, I decided to call 3 places what an MRI (for a head check/past injury) would cost, and that I had no insurance. They ALL answered with, "Your insurance will cover it, I don't know what the cost is exactly", EVEN AFTER I SAID I HAVE NO INSURANCE!!!!! Can u believe it???
Then, I got prices of $2000, $1800 and $1200!!!!
But those that have insurance, COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE COST OF SEEING THE DOC/ PROCEDURES ARE!!!
60 minutes had a spot on "grocery insurance". Say you had an insurance monthly premium to "cover" your grocery shopping. If you didnt need to check or know the cost of your food, wouldn't you just throw prime ribs, lobsters, etc. into your cart???
Laser surgery for your eyes is not covered by insurances. It is a "cosmetic" elective... 5 years ago, an eye lasered was $2500. Today it is about $300-400.
Years ago when you went to the doctor, you had to pay for it. You asked how much it cost. Today everyone is hoping for a universal healthcare system, to make sure you still do not need the responsibility to shop for the cost...
...let the wealthy make their money and pay for it for you...
If Canada's "excellent" healthcare system is so great, why do so many cross the bridge to Michigan to get care???
Healthcare an inflationary catagory because of those reasons. Should at least be a cap (starting to) on what is covered per visit/procedure. Then maybe overall premiums will go down, and less would cry about it. >>
Interesting stuff but those who don't have nor can afford, don't they get to die horrible deaths?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i> Meanwhile, we have coins for the kids .. Can anyone address how the seller is able to post these photos and yet he's selling an unopened box ? Is that trickery or what ? Isn't this illegal ?
<< <i>If we get universal health care, where will the Canadians go for quality health care? >>
Good one! Better yet, what happens to people over the age of 50? They don't get treatment in England or Canada due to their age, or they get put so far back on a waiting list that they die before treatment.
In a nutshell, the reasons we already have such high prices and problems with our health care is due to Government intrusion. Why add more and in essence, destroy the best system left on the planet?
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Comments
Here is a good video: Video
It's VERY interesting and informative whether you agree with it or not.
Confidence Returns [Larry Kudlow]
The rally in gold in recent days is telling the Fed that the 50 basis point shock and awe rate cut is sufficient. Gold’s rally is putting a floor underneath the fed funds rate. I’m okay with that. The Treasury yield curve is now nicely upward-sloping. It is normalizing. That’s a good sign for future growth.
As reported in this morning’s Wall Street Journal, credit markets have revived following the Fed move. Bond sales are resuming. Yields on corporate bonds and loans have moved lower. The commercial paper market is improving. The LIBOR rate has dropped by 35 basis points.
Confidence is returning.
**NOTE**: Inflation indexes are running around 2-percent for the CPI, PPI, and imported prices. World stock markets surged on the Fed rate cut. In the US, if stocks truly believed big inflation was on its way, they’d be falling not rising. After all, the capital gains tax is not indexed for inflation.
Right now the dollar is soft and gold is strong. This is more a liquidity warning sign than anything else. Over time, as US growth and investment picks up, there will be stronger dollar demand. Additional capital formation will soak up any liquidity excess. In other words, a growth solution.
Meanwhile, low unemployment claims suggest something like 100,000 new jobs per month.
The story looks just fine to me. And I’m waiting for Europe and England to lower their own interest rates.
09/20 04:10
Link. Scroll down, way down. Or read today's Corner posts. It was a classic posting day there. Ever read Mark Steyn? Or Jonah Goldberg?
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
What will happen when no one will buy our debt?
The fed will print more money. And more money, and more, and more.
Why do you think they stopped publishing the M3? They're hiding something.
What's going to happen as they print more money? Inflation. Hyper inflation...
All you have to do is look at Zimbabwe. Their market didn't crash - it went up along with the currency, but gold rose faster.
<< <i>Evans is a Stanford- and Ivy League-educated tax lawyer who has been practicing law for decades. >>
And our president is a Harvard educated MBA, yet he's as dumb as a bag of bricks. I'm not getting your point.
<< <i>Good points, but you ignore the fact that the US now relies on selling billions in debt to other countries every month to keep this country going. Other countries are going to stop buying the debt the lower the interest rates go. They are already losing money based on exchange rates, now they will be losing because they are buying US debt instead of debt from other countries who are paying better rates.
What will happen when no one will buy our debt?
The fed will print more money. And more money, and more, and more.
>>
It's not unreasonable to fear a death spiral for the dollar. The feds cut interest rates to bail out the stock market and housing, but that cheapens the dollar as seen by the moves in metals and oil. But the buyers of our debt will want HIGHER interest rates to compensate for the declining dollar. When the holders of our debt realize that continuing to hold dollars is giving them a negative real return, they will convert their dollars to euros, gold, oil, etc. The flood of depreciated dollars coming home will be a painful payback for 20 years of out of control domestic spending, out of control trade deficits, irresponsible tax cuts, decimation of our manufacturing base, and our invasion of Iraq.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Before we do that, let's go out on a positive note concerning the original topic. Larry Kudlow's follow up on the 50 bps cut:
Confidence Returns [Larry Kudlow]
The rally in gold in recent days is telling the Fed that the 50 basis point shock and awe rate cut is sufficient. Gold’s rally is putting a floor underneath the fed funds rate. I’m okay with that. The Treasury yield curve is now nicely upward-sloping. It is normalizing. That’s a good sign for future growth.
As reported in this morning’s Wall Street Journal, credit markets have revived following the Fed move. Bond sales are resuming. Yields on corporate bonds and loans have moved lower. The commercial paper market is improving. The LIBOR rate has dropped by 35 basis points.
Confidence is returning.
Crudlowe is a crackpot of major proprotions. Nothing more than a shill for the Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Stanleys, Citi's, and other brokerages. When he retires they will have a golden parachute waiting for him with open arms. If he's not on the FED's, Treasury's or Bush's payroll he should be. All Crudlowe has said is that a lit charge of significant proportion was set off behind the lemmings to get them moving once again towards the sea wall. None of those lemmings is making a peep or complaining. Confidence is high.
**NOTE**: Inflation indexes are running around 2-percent for the CPI, PPI, and imported prices. World stock markets surged on the Fed rate cut. In the US, if stocks truly believed big inflation was on its way, they’d be falling not rising. After all, the capital gains tax is not indexed for inflation.
Markets can be wrong on the main trend for far longer than you or I have money to spend. The sub-prime/credit/commercial paper/derivatives contagian has just been unleashed. There will be much larger fall out from these in the coming years. And we'll live through it, though many retirement accounts will be stripped bare.
2007 is just the first blip in sub-prime and mortgage problems. The rate cut "convinced" the masses that all is well with the remaining $500 TRILL in derivatives and that the FED will "bail us
out" of any new problems. I applaud their confidence in the FED.
Meanwhile, low unemployment claims suggest something like 100,000 new jobs per month.
Obviously a believer in the BLS Birth/Death model forumula that adds 1,000,000 jobs per year to the payrolls based on black boxes rather than real head counting. Yes, the BD Model "ensures"
80,000 jobs per month on average even during a depression. So only 20,000 "real" new jobs need to be added (nothing will be mentioned on the jobs lost though). It just may take a year or two to "fix" the BD model as the recession gets recongized. If you take out the BDM just created in 2007, at this point we'd show a net loss.
Recall that the BDM was created for a healthy, growing economy. Won't it be inaccurate during periods of very slow to a contraction?
The story looks just fine to me. And I’m waiting for Europe and England to lower their own interest rates.
It's a great story. Taxpayers running on a major lending/derivatives banker in Britain to the tune of $2 BILLION. The govt basically seized the bank by guaranteeing all deposits. They can print as much money as needed now to pay off further depositors (lol). And they can always eat cake if they run out of bread.
roadrunner
<< <i>It's not unreasonable to fear a death spiral for the dollar. The feds cut interest rates to bail out the stock market and housing, but that cheapens the dollar as seen by the moves in metals and oil. But the buyers of our debt will want HIGHER interest rates to compensate for the declining dollar. When the holders of our debt realize that continuing to hold dollars is giving them a negative real return, they will convert their dollars to euros, gold, oil, etc. The flood of depreciated dollars coming home will be a painful payback for 20 years of out of control domestic spending, out of control trade deficits, irresponsible tax cuts, decimation of our manufacturing base, and our invasion of Iraq. >>
Yep. The US has spent decades putting our debt into every corner of the globe. Almost every country owns lots of it. They are not only going to stop buying it, they are going to start dumping their holdings when they see how much money the US is printing. Some countries have already started decoupling themselves from the dollar. This is just the beginning.
SellingNasdaq
<< <i>And along with our country selling off infrastructure to foreign entities.... how about the deal being worked on to sell 20% of Nasdaq to Dubai?? I realize it is not likely to be an outright sale.... and involves some horse trading.... but I still get uncomfortable when we sell off portions of our institutions....
SellingNasdaq >>
Maybe they will set the interest rate to zero since charging or paying interest violates Islamic law.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Meanwhile, we have coins for the kids ..
Can anyone address how the seller is able to post these photos and yet he's selling an unopened box ?
Is that trickery or what ? Isn't this illegal ?
Where is carolj ? The sky is falling.
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
<< <i>
Hey.... if you want to see the entertainment.... you have to help stoke the coals once in awhile!! No fair just being a bystander!!!
-Aesop, 'The nurse and the wolf'
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Just went to my local 'ole supermarket, Kroger. Milk was $3.49 a gallon.
The problem with healthcare, to change the subject, is there needs to be competitive pricing. Ask anyone what procedures cost, or what it cost to go to the doctor, and they will tell you, "I don't know, insurance covers it". (ummm, those that have insurance).
For fun, I decided to call 3 places what an MRI (for a head check/past injury) would cost, and that I had no insurance. They ALL answered with, "Your insurance will cover it, I don't know what the cost is exactly", EVEN AFTER I SAID I HAVE NO INSURANCE!!!!! Can u believe it???
Then, I got prices of $2000, $1800 and $1200!!!!
But those that have insurance, COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE COST OF SEEING THE DOC/ PROCEDURES ARE!!!
60 minutes had a spot on "grocery insurance". Say you had an insurance monthly premium to "cover" your grocery shopping. If you didnt need to check or know the cost of your food, wouldn't you just throw prime ribs, lobsters, etc. into your cart???
Laser surgery for your eyes is not covered by insurances. It is a "cosmetic" elective... 5 years ago, an eye lasered was $2500. Today it is about $300-400.
Years ago when you went to the doctor, you had to pay for it. You asked how much it cost. Today everyone is hoping for a universal healthcare system, to make sure you still do not need the responsibility to shop for the cost...
...let the wealthy make their money and pay for it for you...
If Canada's "excellent" healthcare system is so great, why do so many cross the bridge to Michigan to get care???
Healthcare an inflationary catagory because of those reasons. Should at least be a cap (starting to) on what is covered per visit/procedure. Then maybe overall premiums will go down, and less would cry about it.
Today everyone is hoping for a universal healthcare system, to make sure you still do not need the responsibility to shop for the cost...
We want a fair price. The system to provide it does not exist today, thus we'll have Communist healthcare.
<< <i>And I need one more dime for my 7070 BTW.
Have no idea what that has to do with the rest of this thread. >>
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i><<Milk is well over $4 a gallon now which is much higher the last year alone. >>
Just went to my local 'ole supermarket, Kroger. Milk was $3.49 a gallon.
The problem with healthcare, to change the subject, is there needs to be competitive pricing. Ask anyone what procedures cost, or what it cost to go to the doctor, and they will tell you, "I don't know, insurance covers it". (ummm, those that have insurance).
For fun, I decided to call 3 places what an MRI (for a head check/past injury) would cost, and that I had no insurance. They ALL answered with, "Your insurance will cover it, I don't know what the cost is exactly", EVEN AFTER I SAID I HAVE NO INSURANCE!!!!! Can u believe it???
Then, I got prices of $2000, $1800 and $1200!!!!
But those that have insurance, COULD CARE LESS WHAT THE COST OF SEEING THE DOC/ PROCEDURES ARE!!!
60 minutes had a spot on "grocery insurance". Say you had an insurance monthly premium to "cover" your grocery shopping. If you didnt need to check or know the cost of your food, wouldn't you just throw prime ribs, lobsters, etc. into your cart???
Laser surgery for your eyes is not covered by insurances. It is a "cosmetic" elective... 5 years ago, an eye lasered was $2500. Today it is about $300-400.
Years ago when you went to the doctor, you had to pay for it. You asked how much it cost. Today everyone is hoping for a universal healthcare system, to make sure you still do not need the responsibility to shop for the cost...
...let the wealthy make their money and pay for it for you...
If Canada's "excellent" healthcare system is so great, why do so many cross the bridge to Michigan to get care???
Healthcare an inflationary catagory because of those reasons. Should at least be a cap (starting to) on what is covered per visit/procedure. Then maybe overall premiums will go down, and less would cry about it. >>
Interesting stuff but those who don't have nor can afford, don't they get to die horrible deaths?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
Meanwhile, we have coins for the kids ..
Can anyone address how the seller is able to post these photos and yet he's selling an unopened box ?
Is that trickery or what ? Isn't this illegal ?
Where is carolj ? The sky is falling. >>
Those are the US Mint photos.
<< <i>If we get universal health care, where will the Canadians go for quality health care? >>
Good one! Better yet, what happens to people over the age of 50? They don't get treatment in England or Canada due to their age, or they get put so far back on a waiting list that they die before treatment.
In a nutshell, the reasons we already have such high prices and problems with our health care is due to Government intrusion. Why add more and in essence, destroy the best system left on the planet?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff