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Has anybody gotten so good they can tell PR69 vs PR70?

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  • It's really quite simple

    If you own it .......it's a 69

    if I own it............ its a 70.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    Not sure I am so good but I screened a bunch of $5 gold commems, sent in 20 and got 17 70's. image
  • "Winter hours" are now in effect - I only get them for an hour after school and Saturday mornings. But, the good news is they together can now screen about 200-300 coins an hour for the 69/70 line.

    That is fantastic, when you can teach your kids such a skill like this!

    Some of the best Education in the world being taught roght there!

    I wish I could 'audit' the class ;>
  • CoinlearnerCoinlearner Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image..Have tried, so can save some submission fees but with little to show for it. When I get them back I do notice a difference side by side, same coin, 69 to 70. Guess those that grade thousands of coins can tell right away. Better at grading 65 and below, enough to buy ungraded-in hand inspection.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    image

    PCGS, NGC and apparently lots of others have gotten it down.
    This thread is useless without pictures. image
    Believe this is a PR70 DCAM and be healed !!!
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Here is my best submission.

    All the eagles and commems were hand (eye) picked. I could not find a single mark on any of those coins, and the strikes were awsome. Four of those eight went 70. You can weed out the coins with tick marks on them, but that doesn't mean they will go 70. I think you can pick out coins knowing they won't go 70, but I don't think anyone can pick out all 70s.

    Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
    1 1 11611023 79980 2006-W $5 Eagle US MS70
    2 1 11611024 21009 2006-P $1 Benjamin Franklin-Founding Father US MS69
    3 1 11611025 147440 2007-P $1 Jamestown US PR69DC
    4 1 11611026 85214 2006-D 10C US MS67FB
    4 2 11611027 85214 2006-D 10C US MS66FB
    5 1 11611028 147439 2007-P $1 Jamestown US MS70
    6 1 11611029 147439 2007-P $1 Jamestown US MS70
    7 1 11611030 147441 2007-W $5 Jamestown US MS70
    8 1 11611031 9626 1987-W $5 Constitution US MS69
    9 1 11611032 799977 2006-P $1 Eagle-20th Anniv. Reverse Proof US PR69
    10 1 11611033 85166 1984-P 10C US MS67FB
    11 1 11611034 5167 1984-D 10C US MS67
    12 1 11611035 85174 1988-P 10C US MS65FB
    13 1 11611036 85168 1985-P 10C US MS66FB

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • I havent kept up with "grading standards," but the way I understood it several years ago "toning" or even "milk spots" did not affect the "grade" of a coin.

    therefore, a pr70 could have toning or even milk spots.

    has this changed?

    thanks, Alan Mendelson
    BestDealsTVshow.com
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here is my best submission.

    All the eagles and commems were hand (eye) picked. I could not find a single mark on any of those coins, and the strikes were awsome. Four of those eight went 70. You can weed out the coins with tick marks on them, but that doesn't mean they will go 70. I think you can pick out coins knowing they won't go 70, but I don't think anyone can pick out all 70s. >>

    What magnification did you use and did you make sure to rotate the coins under a light to see the surfaces from multiple angles?
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I havent kept up with "grading standards," but the way I understood it several years ago "toning" or even "milk spots" did not affect the "grade" of a coin.

    therefore, a pr70 could have toning or even milk spots.

    has this changed? >>

    I've never heard of spots not being considered in the grade of a coin. PCGS routinely downgrades coins that have developed spots.
  • I am referring, more exactly, to spots that are considered toning.

    however, I do recall some comment (and I am not sure of the source) that said "milk spots" do not affect the grade of a coin as milk spots are just a form of "toning" and not actual "damage."

    please correct me.

    thanks, Alan Mendelson
    BestDealsTVshow.com
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no way to detect a 70. A certain percentage are graded 70, and that's that.

    Kinda like the instructor who hates giving an A.
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,480 ✭✭✭✭✭
    however, I do recall some comment (and I am not sure of the source) that said "milk spots" do not affect the grade of a coin as milk spots are just a form of "toning" and not actual "damage."

    Maybe there is some truth to that, but who wants to own a milked coin?

    Would you want to own the pic below? A NGC 1996 MS69, now it's spot bullion. They sell for $80 + or -, not looking like this though.

    image
    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
  • pb2ypb2y Posts: 1,461
    The difference in MS 69 and MS 70 is determined by the moon phase
    or the position of the Planets. Those veiwing these coins in slabs and
    claiming to know the difference are star gazers.
    Those owning coins graded as such just giggle all the way to the bank.


    image
    image

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,839 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> I do recall some comment (and I am not sure of the source) that said "milk spots" do not affect the grade of a coin as milk spots are just a form of "toning" and not actual "damage. >>



    The grading services use market grading which, unlike technical grading, uses eye appeal as a grading factor. Spots adversely affect the eye appeal of a coin.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ^well said, Perry
  • isn't there a published "standard" for grading with references to milk spots-- are they, or are they not a factor for the "grade?"

    thanks, Alan Mendelson
    BestDealsTVshow.com
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I havent kept up with "grading standards," but the way I understood it several years ago "toning" or even "milk spots" did not affect the "grade" of a coin.

    therefore, a pr70 could have toning or even milk spots.

    has this changed?

    thanks, Alan Mendelson
    BestDealsTVshow.com >>



    i dunno..............perfect and milk spots does not compute image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i> The difference in MS 69 and MS 70 is determined by the moon phase or the position of the Planets. Those veiwing these coins in slabs and claiming to know the difference are star gazers. . image >>



    Well said. BTW, people are starting to spread rumors that the world not flat. They think its, get this, R-O-U-N-D. Ha. Ha.
  • RarityRarity Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭✭
    "a MS/PR 70 coin should show no imperfection whatsoever under 20X magnification"
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,839 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"a MS/PR 70 coin should show no imperfection whatsoever under 20X magnification" >>



    I thought the PCGS criteria was no flaws under 5X magnification.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • NeoStarNeoStar Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭
    According to ANA and PCGS standards 70 is perfect under 5X...
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,605 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There really is not a lot of difference between the two anyway, now is there ?
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    lemme put it this way, i can grade pr70s w/ 100% consistency.

    they are all overgraded pr69s.

    K S
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Here is my best submission.

    All the eagles and commems were hand (eye) picked. I could not find a single mark on any of those coins, and the strikes were awsome. Four of those eight went 70. You can weed out the coins with tick marks on them, but that doesn't mean they will go 70. I think you can pick out coins knowing they won't go 70, but I don't think anyone can pick out all 70s. >>

    What magnification did you use and did you make sure to rotate the coins under a light to see the surfaces from multiple angles? >>



    For this type of grading I use a 55mm with a 1.4 aperature from my old 35mm camera. These lenses are awsome for looking at coins. They do not distort the item you are looking at, and the quality of the lens itself is very high.

    Yes. I rotate the coin every which way from Sunday, and the rims are 100% inspected. I even check the edge to make sure there isn't any issues there. The luster on the coins I selected was all there. I think if I covered the grades, you wouldn't be able to tell which ones are 70 and which are 69. These coins were all from fresh dies because there are no raised die lines on the coins anywhere. I have a feeling if cracked out (if they didn't put any marks on the rims putting them in the holder) some may go 70 on a resubmission.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • is a milk spot a FLAW ?? or is a milk spot "toning" or a change in color?

    Ive seen magnificently TONED coins of the highest grades?

    is a MILK SPOT different from a RAINBOW if the coin is not FLAWED?

    thanks for clearing this up.

    cheers, Alan Mendelson
    BestDealsTVshow.com
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,741 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, we have beat this one around before and it never ceases to amaze me how folks come out of the woodwork and state they can tell the difference between MS69/70 and P69/70. I agree with the one writer that one should be able to discount what is NOT a "70" but ruling one in is not a reliable enterprise. Even "69s" are tough at times.

    For what it is worth I have noticed two disqualifiers in recent NCLT mint releases such as the "W" burnished series:

    - pinpoint luster breaks: this has been mentioned before and sometimes is only seen at certain angles. This I believe is related to die wear or actually usage polishing of the die where matte surface is lost. This can be seen with virtually all the different proof eagles and presidential dollars.

    - rim/edge ticks: these same coins are subject to some injury on the very outer edge of the "rim" and also on the inner edge of the rim adjacent to the field where it may not be perfect.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • aficionadoaficionado Posts: 2,309 ✭✭✭

    Yes, I can tell the difference.


    Unfortuantly the TPG's can't. image


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