1964 Topps Stand up box on Mastronet SOLD
sayheykid54
Posts: 779 ✭✭
Sold for just over $27,000. They can't be to happy with that based on the fact that they paid over $24,000 for the box. Any thoughts??
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<< <i>Sold for just over $27,000. They can't be to happy with that based on the fact that they paid over $24,000 for the box. Any thoughts?? >>
Mastro employees are allowed to bid in the auction....
Kind of a neat little perverse incentive when Mastro is also the owner/consignor.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I guess it's all relative to what you consider a nice return on an item you've owned for just a couple of months, but a 10K profit is a 10K profit no matter how you slice it and few other items would generate such a return in so brief a period of time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Why not? Anyone should happy if they can net 20% in 4 months time. A hell of a lot better than Wall Street, even during the tech bubble.
<< <i>I am sure they expected more but you can't complain about a $10k profit in a few months. >>
Must be nice to be in postion to complain about a $10,000 profit
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
<< <i>They had 35 packs rated gem mint and higher. You would think they could have averaged a grand per pack on those over time and still had forty mint packs to sell at a lower rate. I suspect whoever bought the packs will be reselling them. Again. >>
<<< They had 35 packs rated gem mint and higher >>>
Yea...sounds like 4 out of 5 ebay auctions - LOL
"Gem mint" LOL
I think the sellers clearly know something that the buyer will soon know.
Caveat Emptor, right?
<< <i>Steve , all 120 packs were holdered and graded by gai. they left money on the table selling it this way but flipped it quick for a profit , they were surely expecting more but with all that said the rate of return for how long they held it is very nice >>
Thanks for the info. No link was posted so I didn't see it.
Well then, it probably sold for about what it was worth if not more. perhaps much more than what it was worth, because I don't trust GAI.
<< <i>Link to auction >>
Thanks!
Especially with packs of this magnitude it struck me as kind of odd this was left off of the packs.
I would have thought that you could easily sell a Mantle F pack for 3,000, Clemente F 2,500 etc etc, and with 120 packs, you dont need to be a math whiz to add up the results...
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve , all 120 packs were holdered and graded by gai. they left money on the table selling it this way but flipped it quick for a profit , they were surely expecting more but with all that said the rate of return for how long they held it is very nice >>
Thanks for the info. No link was posted so I didn't see it.
Well then, it probably sold for about what it was worth if not more. perhaps much more than what it was worth, because I don't trust GAI. >>
Not for nothing, but did anyone think it was odd to have Steve Hart check out the packs and pick them up and then have GAI "Authenticate" and grade them when PSA was already into pack grading?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve , all 120 packs were holdered and graded by gai. they left money on the table selling it this way but flipped it quick for a profit , they were surely expecting more but with all that said the rate of return for how long they held it is very nice >>
Thanks for the info. No link was posted so I didn't see it.
Well then, it probably sold for about what it was worth if not more. perhaps much more than what it was worth, because I don't trust GAI. >>
Not for nothing, but did anyone think it was odd to have Steve Hart check out the packs and pick them up and then have GAI "Authenticate" and grade them when PSA was already into pack grading? >>
Sure did - You're 100% right...very "odd" indeed.
<< <i>Not for nothing, but did anyone think it was odd to have Steve Hart check out the packs and pick them up and then have GAI "Authenticate" and grade them when PSA was already into pack grading? >>
<< <i>
<< <i>Not for nothing, but did anyone think it was odd to have Steve Hart check out the packs and pick them up and then have GAI "Authenticate" and grade them when PSA was already into pack grading? >>
Steve is certainly an honest baseball card dealer and probably one of the most honest, but then again that might be like comparing who is the most honest street vendor in Tijuana.
Just remember that GAI grades the pack NOT the cards inside it.
A pack could be a GAI 9.5 but have a gum stained Mantle inside it....
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>It might have been that the gum was stuck to the cards.
Just remember that GAI grades the pack NOT the cards inside it.
A pack could be a GAI 9.5 but have a gum stained Mantle inside it.... >>
That wouldn't surprise me one bit. And we know what a ST qualifier does to the value of cards - it sure doesn't help.
<< <i>don't know if it's still in effect, but Mastro did have a contract with GAI for exclusive pack grading. >>
All well and good, but it seems like Mastro would have flown GAI's head pack grader out to check out the lot then.
Steve Hart giving it a thumbs up left GAI nothing to do except assign a grade to each pack.
Any of us could have graded a pack since I have perfect GAI 7 packs and GAI 10's with card corners showing through the wrapper tears...
I'm not sure if PSA has a holder for one-cent packs, that may be why GAI did the authenticating. According to their guidelines, they can holder "regular size" wax packs from 1952-present. I know they will not holder 1975 Topps mini wax packs or 1951 Topps Redbacks because of the size, so holders for these packs may not be available at this time, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It certainly went for much lowere than what I thougth it would go for...I expected another $20,000.
Hopefully the buyer will pack it out--
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>the buyer of the box has already come forward and stated his feelings on it. It's on the Net 54 thread. >>
Net 54 is allowing a thread on a post WW2 product?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>the buyer of the box has already come forward and stated his feelings on it. It's on the Net 54 thread. >>
Didn't see this thread over there and I looked at three pages of titles? If not wanting to post the link could you post the title of the thread? I'd like to read that as I enjoy discussing 60's Topps, and would also find interesting what the buyer had to say. Was this thread on the "post" war 54 board? I've never checked that board out yet.
Thanks!
He seems to be a nice guy who could care less about the politics of card collecting...
"I am sure all the Mastro bashers will be dissapointed but.... I was the winner of the 64 Stand Ups box. I am a private collector and am not associated with the company or owners. I was fully aware of their ownership and it made me no difference in bidding. What does it matter? I am extremely pleased with my final bid price and was prepared to go much higher. I wish I had seen it on ebay!"
John,
Did it bother you that Steve Hart (who grades packs for PSA) physically inspected the box for Mastro, but then the packs were slabbed by GAI?
JT
john
(Login nyyanksghr) Re: Mastro Shilling? September 7 2007, 11:53 AM
"JT-that didn't bother me at all. I personally think pack grading is rather absurd. I am only concerned that they are in good shape and not opened. Whether a pack is a 7,8,9, or 10 doesnt really do much for me. I have quite a few 1950's packs by both Global and PSA and you can't see any difference in a 7 or 9, in my opinion. The fact that the packs are in very nice shape and unopened is what did it for me."
A true collector I guess.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Mastro paid for my flight and rental car to go pick up this box. A very, very small price(400?) to pay for knowing it was good. Had it not been, I would have walked away and the high bidder ID would have gotten a negative(another very, very small price to pay, instead of blindly sending out a check for $24,000). They had me do it as I am about half an hour away from Mastro and 45 minutes from O.Hare airport. This whole process was quick and easy. I flew out in the morning and was home later that afternoon.
PSA would not grade them as PSA was not holdering 1 cent packs at the time. GAI got them so they could get the box in the next auction catalog. Of course, being penny packs with all the HOF'ers and SP's showing, the company of authentication probably didn't matter at all.
Yes, I think there was some money left on the table in this Mastro auction. The winning bidder will be more than happy with them. Since we all know the box went on ebay for $24ish and is ended up at $36ish, the profit for them was far more than the "20% buyers premium". It was almost 50%!!!! Not bad for a few months, even if a few dollars were left on the table.
Thanks!! Steve Hart
Bosox1976
Did it bother you that Steve Hart (who grades packs for PSA) physically inspected the box for Mastro, but then the packs were slabbed by GAI?
Well, considering that PSA does not grade those packs, no, it doesn't...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For example say it was "certain" that in each of those packs, each card if graded would get a ST qualifier virtually guaranteed - and that fact was stated in the auction as perhaps it should have been - it would have been interesting to see what this lot would have sold for then. And I'm not even sure if there was gum in these packs or not, but from previous posts from other members it appears as though there was gum in these packs. To me, that is the possible weasel like behavior of the seller, not disclosing the inherent flaw in these packs, which was even more important about this auction than clearing up the thing about the GAI/PSA grading.
For the vast majority of vintage unopened (think >40 years old), the value lies not in the cards inside, but the premium of having something so old unopened. 1964 Topps Stand-Ups are definitely one of the more scarce unopened products from the 1960s -- and this find, if it stays intact, will likely do nothing to increase the supply available to the many collectors who collect vintage unopened.
Marc
The value in this lot has nothing to do with the cards if opened , it is in the unopened product. The few 64 stand up penny packs that have sold in the past have sold in the 500-600 range with a common showing fully kowing that the card had a gum stain. look at the 56 penny packs at memory lane , they are going for $1,000 and you are getting 1 56 common with a gum stain. as ms said , the value is in that they have made it so long without getting opened. I was underbidder on the ebay auction and chose to stay out of the mix this time at the higher price but this lot is probably worth another 10-15k at least if the buyer chose to break up the box.
Cheers
<< <i>Steve:
For the vast majority of vintage unopened (think >40 years old), the value lies not in the cards inside, but the premium of having something so old unopened. 1964 Topps Stand-Ups are definitely one of the more scarce unopened products from the 1960s -- and this find, if it stays intact, will likely do nothing to increase the supply available to the many collectors who collect vintage unopened.
Marc >>
Point understood Marc but using "vast majority" it would depend on one's perspective. Yes, to someone who strictly wants something "so old unopened" you would be correct. But if any vintage pack is selling at a high price, there is no doubt about it that this high price is there mostly because of the possible value of what is or could be inside the pack.
A good example of this are those unopened Sweet Caporal cigarette packs which don't sell for that much when it is known there is no possibility of a card in the pack. When there is a possibility of a card in the pack, the packs sell for a lot more money, a LOT more.
For me, any vintage pack I would buy would immediately get busted so for me the only value is what is inside the pack.
<< <i>Steve
The value in this lot has nothing to do with the cards if opened , it is in the unopened product. The few 64 stand up penny packs that have sold in the past have sold in the 500-600 range with a common showing fully kowing that the card had a gum stain. look at the 56 penny packs at memory lane , they are going for $1,000 and you are getting 1 56 common with a gum stain. as ms said , the value is in that they have made it so long without getting opened. I was underbidder on the ebay auction and chose to stay out of the mix this time at the higher price but this lot is probably worth another 10-15k at least if the buyer chose to break up the box.
Cheers
Appreciate the reply. But frankly, in my opinion there is likely a lot of ignorance out there about vintage unopened packs...and of course the weasel sellers want to perpetuate that ignorance in their auctions for their profit.
For example let's take your illustration of the same wax pack described two different ways in an auction:
1. Topps 1956 Baseball vintage unopened penny wax pack containing one card and one stick of gum. Chance at opening this pack and finding a high grade Mickey Mantle baseball card which could grade a 9 or 10 and be worth tens of thousands of dollars.
2. Topps 1956 Baseball vintage unopened penny wax pack containing one card and one stick of gum. The chances are fairly certain that it will contain a common card and if graded will receive a ST qualifier which greatly diminishes the value of the card.
Of course most if not virtually all auctions are going to use the first description. I'm not sure if you can see through those packs or not so perhaps the player's name would already be listed in an auction in the second description which was done honestly.
So what auction is going to get more money...#1 or #2?
and to all of you ignorant people who have been tricked by the weasle sellers and want to dump your packs let me know as I am a buyer.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Steve , I give up and this is getting pointless, you do not collect packs and do not know the market so you should leave it at that since you are talking about something that you have little knowledge of . To call sellers weasles to perpetuate ignorance is pretty ignorant on your part at best. Obviously you have no desire to discuss or learn about packs you just want to play devils advocate and argue the other side so this will be my last reply on this thread . to each his own , happy collecting.
and to all of you ignorant people who have been tricked by the weasle sellers and want to dump your packs let me know as I am a buyer.
But you didn't care to just address the question did you? Of course weasel sellers are going to describe their auctions using the first description....and that's precisely what enhances much of the value for most unopened vintage wax packs - it's quite obvious really. I never said there couldn't be some exceptions because of course there are. It's not "devil's advocate"...it's telling it like it is...you should learn the difference before judging people in which you've totally misjudged me.
Grote15 I hear ya and it's a valid point, and I understand the point for certain types of scarce vintage unopened packs, but for say the vast majority of unopened packs, especially post WW2, the majority of the value is no question for the cards inside the pack.
I disagree with you there completely, Steve. By your own admission, though, you stated "For me, any vintage pack I would buy would immediately get busted so for me the only value is what is inside the pack," so you're not viewing this from the perspective of an unopened collector.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.