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Chien-Ming Wang - AL Cy Young?

SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
in Sports Talk
At this point I would have to say Beckett or Lackey based on their slightly lower ERA's but Chien-Ming Wang (17-6) is coming on strong. He has now given up only 1 Run in the last 14 innings and took a No-hitter into the 7th inning against the Bosox last week. If Chien-Ming continues this trend he will receive serious consideration for the AL Cy Young especially if Beckett and Lackey falter down the stretch. Wang is not glamorous with a lot of Strikeouts but those Double Plays are a thing of beauty. image
image

"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
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Comments

  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Dude - you're kidding me, right? Please say you're kidding.
    image
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Not kidding at all. Wang 17-6 with a 3.68 ERA. Made the Red Sox look down right silly last week.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Without going crazy looking up all the stats, Beckett has twice the strikeouts, an ERA one-half point lower, a lower WHIP, has walked fewer batters, and has a lower BAA.

    Johan would get the nod over Wang, and Kelvim Escobar has had a better season in LA than Lackey.

    That's just for starters...
    image
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Beckett has an ERA .38 lower but the difference is shrinking. How many Double Play balls has Beckett threw compared to Wang?

    Wang will get serious consideration especially if he ends up with 20 wins or more. A lot depends on whether his ERA continues to decline.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Wang down the stretch has looked very very good. If he continues that into the post season, then you have to have him in the
    discussion.

    JS
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    JS, the only thing is I believe that Post-Season doesn't count in the Cy Young voting. If Wang continues to pitch like he has in his last 2 starts, he will be a serious contender, especially if the Yankees catch the Red Sox.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    bwahahahaahaha

    thanks for the laugh dude.

    Beckett, Sabathia, and Lackey are all better candidates...Wang's not even top 10 in ERA.

    How about K's? Wang is 39th!!! in the league in strikeouts.

    Wang won't even be a top 5 candidate.
  • onlyanumberonlyanumber Posts: 2,433
    Hate to say it, but even with as good of a season as Wang is having, there are 7 or 8 guys having better seasons. C. C. Sabathia has been incredible this year. Josh Beckett has better numbers. Lackey and Escobar have both put up amazing numbers. Dan Haren is having a great year with an ERA under 3 and you can't rule out J.J. Putz who has become one of the best closers in the game. 37 saves and a 1.45 ERA will get some votes. For that matter, Bobby Jenks will probably get more votes than Wang as well, considering he faced 41 in a row without giving up a hit.

    Wang's been good, but too many others have been better.
    Next MONTH? So he's saying that if he wins, the best-case scenario is that he'll be paying for it two weeks after the auction ends?

    Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12



    image


    Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Wang won 19 games last year and was #2 in the AL Cy Young voting:

    Chien-Ming Wang Stats

    We shall see. If he pitches his last 4 games of the season like his previous 2 (2 runs in 14 innings) his ERA will be in the low 3's.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • BobaFett72BobaFett72 Posts: 7,304
    Beckett, Sabathia and Escobar are all equal or better contenders.
  • MantleMarisFordBerraMantleMarisFordBerra Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭
    Wang is looking better & better; don't know if he gets my Cy Young vote just yet though. One thing I would like to point out to all the posters citing Wang's lack of strikeouts: Wang isn't a strike out pitcher. That's not his style. His game is to get guys to ground out.
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    I forgot about Sabathia as well - and Haren has way better numbers, though I still rank him a step below the top guys already mentioned.




    << <i>especially if the Yankees catch the Red Sox >>



    This just in - it ain't happening. I admire your conviction, however.
    image
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771


    << <i>Wang won 19 games last year and was #2 in the AL Cy Young voting:

    Chien-Ming Wang Stats

    We shall see. If he pitches his last 4 games of the season like his previous 2 (2 runs in 14 innings) his ERA will be in the low 3's. >>



    Last year there wasn't the depth and the yankees were relevant...at this pace they're going to be lucky to make the playoffs. If they don't make the playoffs kiss a top 5 finish for Wang goodbye.
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    According to Baseball Prospectus, Wang is not one of the 10 best pitchers in the A. L. this year. I expect that the gentleman pushing Wang also believes that Jeter is a good defensive shortstop.
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Listen, the dude plays in the NY, he will be right in on the voting, the fact is no one cares about what guys are doing in Anaheim. I thought
    we knew this already!

    JS
  • gosteelersgosteelers Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭
    Did anyone mention Erik Bedard? The league is hitting .212 off of him and he leads the league in strikeouts by a pretty big margin.
  • Piman58Piman58 Posts: 814 ✭✭


    << <i>Johan would get the nod over Wang, and >>



    That would be great! Then the Indians could say they beat the Cy Young winner 5 times in his Cy Young season.

    The award will go to either Beckett, Sabathia, Lackey, or Escobar. Bedard plays for a team with a poor record and would need
    numbers like Carlton's with the 72(?) Phillies to win the award.

    As an Indians fan I won't be terribly disappointed if CC doesn't win it. Winning the Cy Young would make it nearly impossible
    for the Indians to sign CC to a new contract.
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Wang came in 2nd in the AL Cy Young voting last year. How many strikeouts did he have? He even got some votes for the MVP last year.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771


    << <i>Wang came in 2nd in the AL Cy Young voting last year. How many strikeouts did he have? He even got some votes for the MVP last year. >>



    He had 19 wins which, unfortunately, writers look at to determine a pitcher's worth. He tied with Santana for the league lead in wins.

    MVP? hah, Johnny Damon finished 15th in MVP voting...please don't assume that a couple MVP votes mean anything.
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Since the beginning of the 2006 Season, Wang has more wins than any other pitcher in MLB.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    Anyone with a brain knows that wins is more a function of the team scoring runs than a pitcher's effectiveness.

  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭


    << <i>wins is more a function of the team scoring runs >>




    Are you suggesting that the Yankees AS A TEAM have done a great job for Wang? Or did Arod carry Wang on his back too all year?
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Close to 3.5 ERA for the last 2 years, That's great in my book in the heavy hitting AL with the DH.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭


    << <i>Close to 3.5 ERA for the last 2 years, That's great in my book in the heavy hitting AL with the DH. >>





    CS, don't confuse Axtroll with pertinent facts! He wants to talk about team effort!

    Oh and Ax, don't even attempt to suggest that your comment was not directed towards Wang.
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    Cy Young isn't the best pitcher over two years, you dorks...and he's not in the top 5 this year.

    Beckett, Sabathia, Santana, Lackey, Harden are all having better years.

    God you yankee maniacs are crazy, spinning every stat...wins mean exactly NOTHING in determining a pitcher's worth.

  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Thank gawd Trolls with flawed logic don't vote.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • BobaFett72BobaFett72 Posts: 7,304
    "wins mean exactly NOTHING in determining a pitcher's worth."

    I disagree, winning 20 games carries some weight; that is the standard it seems for a "good" season. Everyone was buzzing when there were no 20 game winners.

    Pitching legends are always spoken about regarding how many 20 win seasons they had etc.

    Certainly a better judge of a pitcher is his WHIP, ERA, taken in concert with his strikeouts, innings pitched, quality starts.

    So WINS does have its place, its just not the end all in determing worth.
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    Ax, tell us what makes a great pitcher? Please explain in great detail.
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    Axtroll, you still haven't answered my question. You're not impressed with Wang's 3.5 average ERA or his nearly winning 20 games each year so what makes a good pitcher?


    Or perhaps you're just a full of chit Yankee hater who won't give credit where credit is due. You're a fake fan of the sport.

  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    Wins is not the measure of a great pitcher....wins are the mere byproduct of being on a team that scores more runs.

    Would you rather have a 16 win pitcher with a 4.50 ERA or a 10 win pitcher with a 3.00 ERA? Which pitcher is better? It surely isn't the 16 win one.

    Wang may get a top 5 cy young because he's in NY, but he won't sniff the cy young.
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    Wang gives you both a low ERA and a lot of wins. So what's your problem with him?
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    He doesn't GIVE wins, his TEAM does....good god.

    Wins are not the measure of a pitcher's effectiveness, why is that so difficult for the simple-minded to comprehend?
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    No, you mean Arod gives the TEAM wins, right dummy?
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Way to go Chien-Wang!!!! 5th Win in a row. Another notch in your belt towards the AL Cy Young Award. I would love to have the Troll whine when you win it!
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    Arod helps that team more than anyone else, absolutely.

  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭


    << <i>Arod helps that team more than anyone else, absolutely. >>





    Ax, come on you Arod is the main reason why Wang has 19 wins, right? right?
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Way to go Chien-Wang!!!! 5th Win in a row. Another notch in your belt towards the AL Cy Young Award. I would love to have the Troll whine when you win it! >>



    ANother win by Beckett too, sorry Mini Wang
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    AxTROLL, you can't have it both ways. On the one hand you're whining that Arod has carried the Yankees for an entire season, and on the other hand Wang's accomplishment was a TEAM effort and nothing more.
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    No I simply said that wins are a poor determination of a pitcher's worth.

    Read man, read!
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭


    << <i>No I simply said that wins are a poor determination of a pitcher's worth.

    Read man, read! >>




    Yes, you've made that quite clear, but you've also said that Arod has carried the team all year and that Wang's wins were not about Wang but rather were a TEAM win.

    Perhaps you like to say completely different things every day just to get a good Yankee hate/whine going image
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040


    AL Cy could boil down to longtime rivals

    "Both AL East kingpins have suited up their fair share of pitchers on the receiving end of their art's highest award, with Pedro Martinez (1999 and 2000) and Roger Clemens (2001) keeping the honor in the I-95 corridor.

    But Yankees and Red Sox pitchers have never contested the same Cy Young Award, never finishing in the top two in the vote since the award's inception in 1956.

    Well, there is always a first time. Boston's Josh Beckett and New York's Chien-Ming Wang are the respective leaders of their postseason-bound staffs, and both will receive ample support among the voting members of the Baseball Writers Association of America. They are hardly running a match race, but their season-long excellence on the road to 20 wins will be hard to ignore.

    Their most serious competition will come from another undisputed staff ace, C.C. Sabathia, the big chief of the Cleveland Indians. Right-handers John Lackey and Kelvim Escobar, virtually peers in the Angels rotation, figure to cancel each other out in the voting booth."
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • stitzenstitzen Posts: 1,771
    Said it before and I'll say it again: Wang doesn't deserve higher than a fourth place the cy young voting.
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is going to be a great match-up ... and since we all know voting happens directly after the season and before the playoffs this game may go a long way in swaying some voters.

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • MorgothMorgoth Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭
    Wins are not soley a team function. A pitcher has to be able to last late into games to be able to pick up wins. Quality starts will eventually translate into wins so I think it's a good barameter of a pitcher. If he has good w/k rations, good whip and era, once he starts lasting into the 7th and 8th innings regulary wins will come regardless of how good a team is. Look at Carltons year where he won like 60% of his teams games on a really bad team.
    Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,252 ✭✭✭✭
    imageWell said MARGOTH. I agree totally. To everyone who said wins are not important that's crazy. Wins are almost everything. If this were not true, Roger Clemens would be the 3 time defending National League Cy Young right now. Was he penalized by a poor hitting Houston team? But the real deal behind this is, Roger while pitching spectacular only would go 5-6 inning per outing this is not good enough for the award. If Wang wins his last 3 starts he will have 20 wins and a chance at the award. The strikeout is a very overrated stat except for closers. Also, there is a saying "What have you done for me lately."
    I hope everyone enjoys the weekend.
    THANKS,
    Mickey71
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    Mickey71, you are a bright lad.
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    Wins are important, but a pitcher's won loss record over the course of a season is not a perfect (or close to it) indicator of how well he pitched. Smoltz has had 10 starts this year in which he pitched six or more innings, but the Braves scored 0 or 1 runs while he was in the game. Wang has a nice record because:

    1. He has pitched decently (not great); and
    2. He has received tremendous run support.

    He is not one of the 5 best pitchers in the A. L. this year.
  • SeatedCoinSeatedCoin Posts: 1,040
    You are right. Smoltz doesn't pitch in the American League. LOL
    image

    "The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You are right. Smoltz doesn't pitch in the American League. LOL >>




    So what is your point?
  • thegemmintmanthegemmintman Posts: 3,101 ✭✭
    It's Beckett or Escobar. It will go down right to the end of the regular season.
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