Counterfeit 1807 Capped Bust Half RETURNS to ebay
FEVER
Posts: 232 ✭
Another of the VERY SAME Chinese Counterfeit 1807 Capped Bust Half dollars has shown up on ebay. It is made from an 1809 (O-102 or O-103). It's a "dentil mold" piece (probably spun in a centrifuge). The last number in the date was altered on the first cast and then remolded. This is ONE OF THE SAME group of these things that keep popping up on ebay every other week.
One of our forum members contacted the seller and he emailed him back giving him the typical "somewhat snotty" line. It's the right size, I saw it in the Redbook, etc. (If this member wishes to post this joker's response - he can feel free to do so here). You might also want to note this sellers ebay ID and block him out when you check his auction page.
It is the wrong design type and not the original design type of 1809 - 1812. Wrong Eagle, Wrong Liberty. I don't want a novice to get stung with this piece by a "so-called ebay seller".
We could use more individuals contacting ebay and trying to get them to pull it down. Here is the correct process to do so, so they ACTUALLY get your email.
First Click - Contact Us >
then - Listing Violations >
then - Fraudulent Listing >
then - You Suspect a Listing is Fraudulent but didn't bid.
then - This leads you to a page where you copy the in item number down (in
this particular case it's (290155814172)
then - write your complaint
I already wrote them but we need more. I also told them this does not put ebay in a good light with collectors and that it is being discussed. I also told them that any bidders would be contacted that it is bogus. I also told them it will be posted to the coin forum boards.
Edgar
Here are images of the Counterfeit 1807 and images of a real 1807 (Correct original design type for your perusal)
Counterfeit Obverse
Counterfeit Reverse
REAL 1807 (Design Type #1) for comparison:
One of our forum members contacted the seller and he emailed him back giving him the typical "somewhat snotty" line. It's the right size, I saw it in the Redbook, etc. (If this member wishes to post this joker's response - he can feel free to do so here). You might also want to note this sellers ebay ID and block him out when you check his auction page.
It is the wrong design type and not the original design type of 1809 - 1812. Wrong Eagle, Wrong Liberty. I don't want a novice to get stung with this piece by a "so-called ebay seller".
We could use more individuals contacting ebay and trying to get them to pull it down. Here is the correct process to do so, so they ACTUALLY get your email.
First Click - Contact Us >
then - Listing Violations >
then - Fraudulent Listing >
then - You Suspect a Listing is Fraudulent but didn't bid.
then - This leads you to a page where you copy the in item number down (in
this particular case it's (290155814172)
then - write your complaint
I already wrote them but we need more. I also told them this does not put ebay in a good light with collectors and that it is being discussed. I also told them that any bidders would be contacted that it is bogus. I also told them it will be posted to the coin forum boards.
Edgar
Here are images of the Counterfeit 1807 and images of a real 1807 (Correct original design type for your perusal)
Counterfeit Obverse
Counterfeit Reverse
REAL 1807 (Design Type #1) for comparison:
0
Comments
Here is his post (I don't know how to do a link!)
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=605253&highlight_key=y&keyword1=bust
Edgar
Edgar
Coneca#N-4080/NGC Collectors Society #A11383
You would think someone that belogs to all those groops would know what they were selling?
ANA#3126409/PCGS Platinum Club #807958
Coneca#N-4080/NGC Collectors Society #A11383
You would think someone that belongs to all those groups would know what they were selling?
*********
One also has to wonder if any of these groups have rules about members who knowingly
sell fakes?
Denga
<< <i>I wrote to him and politely told him that the coin may be counterfeit, and suggested that he attempt to have it certified. He told me that he had bought it as genuine. >>
I wrote him and politely told him that it was counterfeit. He mocked me by using the same sentence structure to politely tell me that I'm an "a-hole".
--Jerry
<< <i>I wrote to him and politely told him that the coin may be counterfeit, and suggested that he attempt to have it certified. He told me that he had bought it as genuine. >>
I'm going to guess that this seller's only test as to whether the coin is genuine or counterfeit is whether he bought it as genuine. I'm going to also guess that a lot of crooks are going to try to sell this guy stuff like Omega High Reliefs and similar counterfeits.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
The last I looked the bidding was above $120.
The question should be: After he pockets his profit on this one, how soon before he offers another one up for sale?
Ooooops. I'm sorry. I need to be more kind and considerate.
After all, he did say he bought this ONE coin as genuine.
Wait a minute!
I said that he bought it as genuine. He didn't say if he bought ONE or one BOX of them.
Oooooops! Again, I am sorry.
We are innocent until proven guilty in our country. (Is this the justification he uses for his behavior and responses to us?)
Where's eBay? What are they doing in this specific case? Are they closed for the Holiday Weekend?
Funny the seller says he bought it as genuine yet it had a big "REPLICA" printed on the image when he bought it a few weeks ago. Obviously, the seller has no ethics or integrity. If he was a true dealer, and made a purchase mistake, then he should have learned from his mistakes and immediately stopped the auction instead of showing his ignorance by emailing "curt" responses to folks that are trying to help him out - so he doesn't make a complete a## out of himself. His uppity attitude and lack of integrity is what gives even good honest dealers a bad name. It's not rocket science to think that he could sell it, correctly attributed for what it is, to a bogo collector. But no. He chose the petty thief route. One thing for sure - everyone should note his ebay name.
I know ebay is in this for the money, but what's the difference between this and a pawn shop accepting and selling stolen or counterfeit goods? Last I heard Tiffany's has a lawsuit against them for letting fake Tiffany items go through.
It will be interesting to see if ebay handles it properly and pulls the auction. I have heard, privately, that they have met with several "numismatic experts" concerning this problem. "Supposedly" they are "concerned" with counterfeits like this - but actions speak louder than words. Don't tell us you're concerned then let the auction run its course. If they don't fix their policies FAST - the word ebay will be synonymous with "let the buyer beware on everything you bid on!" That, in my opinion would be a poor business decision. Wonder what they would do if someone started selling counterfeit $100.00 bills. Bet the government wouldn't buy "where just the middle man" story. Of course, that's just my humble opinion.
Edgar
<< <i>. I have heard, privately, that they have met with several "numismatic experts" concerning this problem. "Supposedly" the are "concerned" with problems like this - but actions speak louder than words. If they don't fix their policies FAST - the word ebay will be synonymous with "let the buyer beware on everything!" Edgar >>
Remember, ebay is now a huge corporation. The bigger they are the harder it is for them to make a decision and take action. When was the last time you complained to ATT and they said "That's right, we'll change that policy based on your input. Thanks."? I'm convinced they want to do something in this area but are incapable of moving fast now. My account rep seems to move the conversation to this area every time I speak to him. --Jerry
TC71
Me and, it is hoped, many others will contact seller and eBay.
A few other happy dealings with this seller.
Feedback
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
I only wish ebay would have a "block scammer seller's list".
"Your counterfeit,pull yourself"
If/When this auction gets pulled I am gonna leave a very nasty reply for them......
TorinoCobra71
Seller sold me a counterfeit coin and became rude about my inquiries. rfcoins ( 406) Aug-25-07 15:22
Reply by brilliantcents (Aug-25-07 17:00):
RFCOINS is a fraud! This coin was dug by me with a metal detector! A++ FRAUD!
1900 S Barber Dime AU Det Cleaned (#170139180335)
You couldn't pay me to deal with this guy, Ebay should close his shop now.....
Do you know, or anyone here know, if eBay can go back in their data base & look up the previous auction that had the 'Replica' written in on the reverse?
This should be a dead give away as to the authenticity of the coin.
I looked through his feedback to see if rfcoins was the winner of the coin & did not see any feedback for an 1807 Capped Bust Half.
Good Luck.
<< <i>FEVER, Do you know, or anyone here know, if eBay can go back in their data base & look up the previous auction that had the 'Replica' written in on the reverse? This should be a dead give away as to the authenticity of the coin. I looked through his feedback to see if rfcoins was the winner of the coin & did not see any feedback for an 1807 Capped Bust Half. Good Luck. >>
eBay lives on something we might call the 90 day rule. After 90 days the
auction with photos, item description ect are deleted. All that is left is
feedback, sellers name and auction number.
Some poor soul has already bid it up to nearly $200.00 and ebay hasn't lifted a finger to stop the auction. Now, do you believe that they are "honestly" worried about selling counterfeit coins?
Edgar
Edited to add:
I found a little more info on this seller that links him to selling Seated Trade Dollars on Overstock. I have no idea if they're fakes. Perhaps you can tell us.
Auction1 Auction 2
Chinese Trade Key page for rfcoins
The following was brought up on the forum across the street:
It appears that the seller is now on eBay under a new name. (It is the same city in the same state.)
This time it a 1795 dollar, but he is using the same pen to show the edge lettering.
I know absolutely NOTHING about Early American Dollars, so I do not know if this coin is for real or not.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1795-Bust-Left-Lettered-Edge-Draped-Bust-Dollar_W0QQitemZ290156989402QQihZ019QQcategoryZ11976QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thank you for the link to the "ANA and ebay fraud." This is much appreciated and everyone here with an interest should copy this url to a folder for future use.
Tr8cer,
I'm not sure about the trade dollars as it is not my area. I could make an educated guess though ...
Update:
The "seller" contacted me this morning with a curt and mildly threatening letter. I contacted him back with the following email:
"Your conduct has already been reported to ebay Safe Harbor. And further to the ANA where your member number, as listed in your auction has been reported. Presently they are investigating and monitoring the auction. You are in violation of the US Hobby Protection Act. Further, all of your emails, including any threatening one's will be forwarded to ebay's Safe Harbor Security. YOU SHOULD STOP THIS AUCTION NOW.
Your actions and ebay user name and history is already being discussed and passed around on the Collector Universe Forum. Here is the link.
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=605286&highlight_key=y&keyword1=bust
You can contact me PERSONALLY (don't try and hide your email address again - as I already have it) at my attached email address."
Funny, the thief doesn't have a thing to say . . .
P.S. Anyone who received a threatening email from this conman should contact ebay with that email.
Edgar
<< <i>
We could use more individuals contacting ebay and trying to get them to pull it down. Here is the correct process to do so, so they ACTUALLY get your email.
First Click - Contact Us >
then - Listing Violations >
then - Fraudulent Listing >
then - You Suspect a Listing is Fraudulent but didn't bid.
then - This leads you to a page where you copy the in item number down (in
this particular case it's (290155814172)
then - write your complaint >>
Followed this exactly---got the following reply 3 days later....
IMPORTANT:
The subject line you chose on the webform is reserved for reporting
current items that may be listed for the purpose of committing fraud.
In order for us to dedicate resources to preventing this type of
situation in a timely manner, reports directed to this area that do not
relate to current listings that may be fraudulent (including reports of
listing violations and reports about items that may be prohibited) will
not be forwarded to another department or answered. Other questions or
concerns should be sent to us from the page below:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_us/_base/index.html
We appreciate the time you took to contact us. To promote a safe trading
environment for the eBay community, we prohibit users from engaging in
any type of unlawful activity on the eBay web site and are dedicated to
investigating such situations.
**Please do not respond to this email as your reply will not be
received.
Best regards,
eBay SafeHarbor Team
-----
He also just listed a 1795 Dollar.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Is this the same coin/seller?
He also just listed a 1795 Dollar.
Russ, NCNE >>
It's the same idiot.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is this the same coin/seller?
He also just listed a 1795 Dollar.
Russ, NCNE >>
It's the same idiot.
Interesting. He is using a 1-day auction to try to stay away from the scambusters, also he has a picture of the obverse and the edge but not the reverse.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>FEVER, Do you know, or anyone here know, if eBay can go back in their data base & look up the previous auction that had the 'Replica' written in on the reverse? This should be a dead give away as to the authenticity of the coin. I looked through his feedback to see if rfcoins was the winner of the coin & did not see any feedback for an 1807 Capped Bust Half. Good Luck. >>
eBay lives on something we might call the 90 day rule. After 90 days the
auction with photos, item description ect are deleted. All that is left is
feedback, sellers name and auction number. >>
Ebay archives everything. It's not lost, it's just waiting for a subpoena.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>He is paying attention to this thread - he killed my bid. problem for him is I have several ebay usernames just for occassions like this >>
Be careful. eBay tracks bidders by IP address so if you're on a static IP address, (like I am), you could be risking your real account.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>He is paying attention to this thread - he killed my bid. problem for him is I have several ebay usernames just for occassions like this >>
Be careful. eBay tracks bidders by IP address so if you're on a static IP address, (like I am), you could be risking your real account.
Russ, NCNE >>
If eBay is willing to do the above, maybe they also ought to be willing to NARU this bad seller!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Russ, NCNE
P.S. Ebay should immediately hire you since you do their job quite a bit better than they do!
Russ, NCNE
Link to fakeline
<< <i>
<< <i>He is paying attention to this thread - he killed my bid. problem for him is I have several ebay usernames just for occassions like this >>
Be careful. eBay tracks bidders by IP address so if you're on a static IP address, (like I am), you could be risking your real account.
Russ, NCNE >>
I had 1 guy blocked after 7 NPB. He registered a new account, bid and didn't pay again. I turned all the info over to Ebay with a thorough explanation. They did...nothing, not even a strike against him and I had to do the special write a second time for a FVF credit. It took awhile more of his BS with other sellers before they NARU'ed him but he still has access to his account and continues to threaten and harass me. Ebay is an Elmohole.
<< <i>
Be careful. eBay tracks bidders by IP address so if you're on a static IP address, (like I am), you could be risking your real account.
Russ, NCNE >>
Ebay is so pathetic. Couple of years ago Bill Yates was showing a very well known EAC member a large cent at Long Beach. Mr. EAC had seen the coin on Yates' Ebay list and wanted to examine it in person. Mr EAC offered to buy it immediately, and Yates could end the ebay listing and save the ebay fees. Yates told him that would violate ebay policy, and let Mr EAC log into ebay under Mr. EAC's account and place a "Buy it now" bid. Mr. EAC wrote Yates a check and left with the coin. A couple of days later both Yates' and Mr. EAC's accounts were suspended for shill bidding. Yates had about $10,000 in running auctions cancelled, and Mr. EAC lost some coins he was bidding on from others (with very high max bids). Both were reinstated a few weeks later after agreeing to never again do what they never did in the first place. Yates still had to pay the $50 or so commission on the coin Mr EAC bought, plus the listing fees on his cancelled auctions ( 4 or 5 with the $19.95 option)