I really screwed up some deals at the National...........update, cards have been returned.......

RonBurgundy · August 16, 2007 12:37PM

I took a bunch of stuff to the National to sell and it wound up being a comedy of errors. What I had was a couple of vintage sets and a couple of partial vintage sets. Condition ranged from VG to NM-MT. Here's a list of the plethora of mistakes I've made with these deals:

1) I chose to deal with 1 dealer each on these deals. Bad mistake. I needed to unload this stuff to have money to spend at the National and with the relative quality of some of it, and what little I had in the off grade stuff, it wasn't going to be hard. But these guys took THREE days to get to it and make a deal. As a result I had all of 2 hours to look around for stuff. Why I didn't grab the stuff and shop it around is beyond me.

2) I knew what I wanted from the partial sets and knew I could get it, yet I deviated from it and accepted about $300 less. Then I get a call this week from the guy who bought it and claimed my accounting was off and wanted to lower it another $200. He also wants to lower the price on one of the complete sets I sold him, due to condition. I'm inclined to ask for my cards back.

Thoughts? A bunch of lessons have been learned here.....I'm usually a pretty decent negotiator, but I was horrible on these.

Ron

pandrews · August 16, 2007 12:39PM

<< 2) I knew what I wanted from the partial sets and knew I could get it, yet I deviated from it and accepted about $300 less. Then I get a call this week from the guy who bought it and claimed my accounting was off and wanted to lower it another $200. He also wants to lower the price on one of the complete sets I sold him, due to condition. I'm inclined to ask for my cards back. >>

is this the same guy that took 3 days to look it over? id tell him to screw off if he's now wanting to reneg on the deal..

yankeeno7 · August 16, 2007 12:40PM

Buy the cards back but dont accept the deal until inspecting to be sure he did not swap any of the cards. Then if everything is kosher, resell.

Leiascards · August 16, 2007 12:41PM

IN this situation I would tell him where he can put them. He is just having some buyers remorse.

yankeeno7 · August 16, 2007 12:42PM

I agree with Perry too....but I was thinking that you could buy them back for the original price and get more money. If he wont do it, there is something fishy and tell him to pound salt because he had the opportunity to look through everything and you agreed to the price at the national.

1980scollector · August 16, 2007 12:56PM

Ron- it is a sad business when a buyer takes 3 days to pay you! Then wants some money back from you!

I really feel bad for you on this one! I think you are in the right and owe him NOTHING!

He totally is trying to take advantage of you IMHO!

Hell I wish I knew you had some stuff for sale! I am so tired of the business getting a bad name due to dealers like the one in this instance!

I could just imagine if the shoe were on the other foot-
Ex

CDsNuts · August 16, 2007 1:00PM

Why does somebody that was set up at the National care that much about $200? Any dealer worth his salt would've done $10k easy for the week.

RonBurgundy · August 16, 2007 1:03PM

I think what happened here is the guy bought a ton of stuff at the National, then decided he could make some of it up on me since our deal wasn't complete. Now he has my cards, and I don't yet have all the money. Sticky situation, as I deal with this guy often and prefer to remain cordial with him, but it's very frustrating.

Ron

goose3 · August 16, 2007 1:03PM

do as the dealer would do to you.

CDsNuts · August 16, 2007 1:07PM

Wait, let me get this straight- he has your cards but hasn't fully paid for them yet?

If that's the case, then he was just trying to sell them before paying for them. Not sure why you would do that, especially if you needed walking around money for the National.

Allen · August 16, 2007 1:08PM

Tell him to send them back to you. Deal with a different dealer in the future.

SDavid · August 16, 2007 1:40PM

Definately get the cards back. If you don't want to sell them yourself on ebay, contact some of the larger consignment dealers (just_collect and mintxpress come to mind) and see what they charge.

1980scollector · August 16, 2007 1:40PM

Ron- your a great guy and this dealer is taking you for a ride! This guy is a POS in my opinion! What a total bum!

What did you sell and how much did he pay! I bet I would pay what a dealer paid for it plus the 200.00 he is trying to screw you out of!

goose3 · August 16, 2007 1:42PM

Damn. I didn't catch that he hasn't even paid you completely!

Who is this "dealer"?

He would get 2 choices from me.

1. Pay me in full within 1 week.
2. Return my cards within 1 week at HIS expense.

RipublicaninMass · August 16, 2007 2:10PM

<< Damn. I didn't catch that he hasn't even paid you completely!
. >>

WOW what a jerk@

RonBurgundy · August 16, 2007 2:21PM

He paid me in part, and I trusted that it would be worked out. Actually, I still do, or at least I did when he started moaning about condition of some of the stuff. He went through it once at the National, gave it to me to review there which I did, we agreed on a price based on that, and then he renegotiated it on the phone earlier this week. When we agreed on a price in Cleveland, I was actually selling it for $400-500 less than what I could get for it here at home, but I had a bird in hand and agreed to do it......now that difference has grown to almost $1000, so I don't know if that's even worth it.

There's no use in getting bent out of shape over it, I think at this point I just need to coolly and calmly ask for my cards back.

Ron

Allen · August 16, 2007 2:28PM

Yeah you do not have to be rude about it unless he does not want to give you the cards back. Sounds like he really messed up the national for you. I mean if he had 3 days to look at the cards and discuss the deal, he should have 1. Known what he was getting and the price. 2. Had all the cash to pay you.

Get your cards back.

1980scollector · August 16, 2007 2:41PM

ROn- would love a shot at buying them and paying NOW instead of when I feel like it!

ctsoxfan · August 16, 2007 2:49PM

<< Wait, let me get this straight- he has your cards but hasn't fully paid for them yet?

If that's the case, then he was just trying to sell them before paying for them. >>

Exactly what I thought after reading your post. Sounds like he had a buyer in mind to flip your cards to, and that buyer either doesn't want them now, or wants them for less.

Of course, a reputable businessman that makes a deal (like he supposedly had with you) would honor it regardless. Doesn't sound to me like you are dealing with one.

rajah424 · August 16, 2007 3:17PM

I don't understand why he wants to lower the price because of the condition. Did the condition of the cards get worse while in his possession?

julen23 · August 16, 2007 4:33PM

j

Carew29 · August 16, 2007 4:40PM

How did you leave the show without getting paid for the deal ron? I don't care how well i know any dealer at the show--if i don't get cash, you don't get cards.

It's hard to stop the bleeding when you keep shooting yourself in the foot.

RonBurgundy · August 16, 2007 11:55PM

Carew -

There's no question I shot myself in the foot, then in the leg, and then in the arse. A comedy of negotiating errors, and now I'm dealing with the consequences. You are absolutely right that at the first suggestion of no cash available to pay, I should've picked up my cards and left.

Ron

baseballfan · August 16, 2007 11:59PM

a deal is a deal, tell him to pay up for what was agreed to. if he had questions about the condition he should have reviewed them right there and then, he would let someone take the cards from his table then re-negoiate a new price.

baseballfan · August 17, 2007 12:00AM

julen
WTF? is going on in that picture?????

parkerj · August 17, 2007 12:17AM

Ron, I echo everyone else's comments...get the cards and cancel the deal.

and....let me have a shot at buying!!!

koby · August 17, 2007 2:29AM

Ron should be worried about the dealer switching out some cards if he cancels this deal..

Is anyone surprised? Just look at all these fast talking con men set up at card shows. How can anyone feel good about taking their children to a baseball card show.

jayhawke · August 17, 2007 3:20AM

<< WTF? is going on in that picture????? >>

That looks like Nicole Bass. Yeah, what gives?

I would get your cards back and make sure nothing was switched out before giving a refund. He has more power over you now that he has your cards and hasn't completely paid you. I recommend not getting involved with those types of deals in the future.

Carew29 · August 17, 2007 5:21AM

I agree ron with above statements--get your cards back from this loser...

koby · August 17, 2007 8:09AM

This dealer's conduct is so typical for baseball card dealers. There are so many dishonest people in this hobby, from local show dealers to the biggest names in the hobby.

If he does not return your cards on your terms, call his local police department for assistance.

Also if you do not mind, can you tell us whether this guy sells on ebay or online, so we can be sure to avoid dealing with him?

vintagetoppsguy · August 17, 2007 8:27AM

<< If he does not return your cards on your terms, call his local police department for assistance. >>

There is an old saying that says, "possession is nine-tenths of the the law." In this case it couldn't me more true. If the buyer is obviously low enough to try to re-negotiate the deal at this point, then what's to keep him from saying that he already paid Ron in cash? Don't most dealers at shows pay in cash when they buy? Sure they do. Think about this. Put yourself in the place of the police department. Who would you believe? If I was an officer, the first question that I would ask Ron is "Why did you let him have the cards before you got all your money?" I personally believe Ron, but to a police officer that would have to sound awful fishy. Sorry Ron, but the police department can't help you in this situation. Unfortunatley, it sounds like he has you by the balls. However, if you live close enough, you should pay him a "visit."

RonBurgundy · August 18, 2007 1:24AM

Yep, you saw the edited message right. I talked to him yesterday and said the best thing to do would be to call the deal off and return the cards. He claims he is "too far into the deal" to do that.

Ron

goose3 · August 18, 2007 1:35AM

Then he needs to pay you the agreed upon price immediately.

now, as far as Card Dealers go, are there any organizations that dealers and collectors are a member of (like in Coins) where someone such as you can file a complaint?

If not, sue him.

Time to stop being Mr. Nice Guy.

Who is this guy? did you reveal that?

cohocorp · August 18, 2007 2:36AM

i would out him so others dont get caught up in the same situation with this guy. i would let him know that also. who is he and whats his ebay id???

jayhawke · August 18, 2007 2:49AM

What does "too far into the deal mean"? Sounds like he has already sold some or all of your cards. What a scum bag. Out the dirt ball! Do you live near him? If so I would pay him a visit to pick up your cards.

koby · August 18, 2007 3:04AM

WTF? Too far into the deal?

He is the one who is changing the terms midstream. Tell him to pay as he agreed or sue him and out him on the hobby forums.

cohocorp · August 18, 2007 3:04AM

"too far into the deal" means exactly that he sold some of the cards and cant undo the deal, but still has buyers remorse. who is this guy?

mealeworm · August 18, 2007 3:31AM

Ron,
It is simple. You need to put pressure on the guy through the collectors on this forum. You can demand that he pays in full or returns all the cards. I too feel some of the cards are already sold and you will not be able to get all the cards back. You simple tell him you want the FULL amount that was agreed upon. If that fails then I wouldn't hesitate one bit about dropping his name on this board. Hopefully he is reading or has contacts that read this board. You wouldn't believe how people change their tune when they get called out publicly.

Dave

Carew29 · August 18, 2007 5:29AM

Ron--go take $25 of your money and have an attorney type and send a demand letter for your products or pay in full immediately or further course of action will be taken. Most attorneys would be glad to do this for you. I use several for replevin notices, but it works all the same.

RonBurgundy · August 18, 2007 7:09AM

Guys -

Thanks for the feedback. I will not out him yet until I discuss this with him one more time. Essentially that conversation is going to be "You're going to pay me as agreed in Cleveland, or you're going to return the cards. Either way, there will be cards or a check in the mail to me Monday morning."

If that fails, I will certainly out him and pursue legal recourse against him. I will also never buy or sell with him again, and I will freely spread the details of this deal gone bad with collectors and other dealers.

Ron

1980scollector · August 18, 2007 7:23AM

my wife is an attorney and I bet I could get you a letter drawn up!

goose3 · August 18, 2007 7:34AM

No offense Ron because it's your choice, but why not reveal his name publicly here for everyone to see?

You might prevent others from encountering the same problems.

gregm13 · August 18, 2007 7:35AM

I agree w/ Ron in not revealing the dealer's name until he has passed the point of no return.

Ron - the lesson to be leaned is to be very selective of who you trust. There are only a few people that I would trust w/ a deal such as you described.

Regards,

Greg M.

RonBurgundy · August 18, 2007 8:11AM

Guys -

I just finished sending me email correspondence documenting my position on this deal. I informed him that if he wished his "new" offered price on the partial sets to stand, then I wanted a corresponding adjustment on the complete sets I sold to him, which were higher grade than the partial sets. In fact, I told him I wanted the same percentage on those NM sets as he was offering on the NM stuff out of the partial sets. That would actually require him to pay me several more hundred dollars, rather than paying me less.

If that's not acceptable, I told him he can ship the cards back to me on Monday. I further stated that either way, there needs to be a resolution by Monday because he is leaving for 2 upcoming shows on Wednesday and I'm fearful that my stuff will get sold if it's not resolved by then. So, it's either cash or cards on the way to me Monday. Those are the choices.

I'll keep the board posted on the response. I will out him if there is no satisfactory resolution.

Ron

CDsNuts · August 18, 2007 8:11AM

What an a-hole. If this guy doesn't come through with the payment (since obviously he's already sold some of the cards), I really hope you stick it to him.

Seems like you're learning from this and how backhanded some of these dealers can be, so all in all it's not the worst thing that could possibly happen. Good luck.

Lee

Carew29 · August 18, 2007 3:38PM

I would call the show he is going to as well and inform them of this loser. Or just appear

GOODLIEU · August 19, 2007 12:43AM

Ron, I am sorry about the way this transaction is proceeding but you should not beat yourself up over it. Like you I go to these conventions with cards for (Trade/Sale) and deal with quite a few dealers that I trust having dealt with them in the past. I frequently based on that trust leave cards with them and they have reciprocated in kind by giving me items at the show knowing I am good for it and will send them payment when I arrive home especially on high priced vintage items that I do not have the available cash for at the show. I like you would be shocked if they started adjusting terms of our handshake deal at the show. It is unfortunate that this dealer has taken that route in your case because not only is he probably going to lose a trusted customer but as we all know in this hobby word of mouth between all of us can make or break the reputation of collectors and dealers alike. I hope for his sake that he works something out that you are both comfortable with.

stevek · August 19, 2007 2:38AM

I didn't read all the posts so don't know if this was mentioned...he could have already sold the cards and is just testing how "desperate" you are and maybe he can con you out of some money. I would definitely ask for the cards back - wouldn't surprise me one bit if an hour later he calls you back and tells you he just sold the cards and is now sending you a check for what you both agreed on...or he might say he sold the cards at a loss just to get rid of them and could you please accept a lower offer.

Alfonz24 · August 19, 2007 3:04AM

I have a feeling that this is the dealer's standard operating procedure. You are probably not the first nor will be the last that he has pulled this stunt.

I hope you still out him after your situation gets resolved.

RonBurgundy · August 19, 2007 3:26AM

If we don't get this resolved and he won't ship the cards back to me, is there anyone that would like to go get them for me at the Hollywood Park show?

rube26105 · August 19, 2007 4:54AM

if you get screwed on it by this scuzzbucket and you know his name or ebay id after the point of your patience, give it,well have fun wth him anyways, collectiveness will work wonders in numbers
eandy

I really screwed up some deals at the National...........update, cards have been returned.......

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