What is the point?
thehallmark
Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭
Why do people bid on cards and drive the prices up early on in an auction? This is so annoying to me. If a card is going to sell for $900-$1100 and end on the 7th day, why would you bid $300 in the first couple hours of the first day?!? It makes no sense to me. It's a waste of the bidder's time and it just bugs the people who are serious about purchasing the item. Am I missing something?
I mean...whatever.....do what you gotta do......but it's a stupid thing that you've gotta do.
I mean...whatever.....do what you gotta do......but it's a stupid thing that you've gotta do.
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No...it still bugs me.
It makes sense to me now, but just something I didn't realize in the beginning.
to each his own bid...
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I'm just tired of seeing cards I want hit their book value/SMR price on Day 1 of an auction.
<< <i>Yeah...I mean, I guess we all have to learn this stuff somewhere along the way.
I'm just tired of seeing cards I want hit their book value/SMR price on Day 1 of an auction. >>
I'm not trying to start an arguement, but since you learned this stuff, please tell where this is in eBay so that I can learn it too. Am I missing something or does eBay dictate our bidding strategy? There is no absolute right or wrong way to bid. Everybody has their own style and does what works for them. If I see a card that I would just like to have, I will wait until the last minute to bid. However, if I see a card that I am very serious about owning then I bid early with a high enough proxy that will almost guarantee that I win the item.
If you're tired of seeing cards hit their book value/SMR price on Day 1, then it's real simple: BID MORE!
randy
<< <i>I understand the question, but I don't understand the reason that you are asking the question. If the card is going to sell for $900-$1100 at the end of the 7th day, then why does is it matter if people are "driving the prices up early on in an auction?" Do those bidders who bid $300.00 really even matter? No! After all, you said it's going to close at the same price either way. So, does it matter if it closes at $1000 with 25 bids or closes at $1000 with 3 bids? You still get the same end result.
<< <i>Yeah...I mean, I guess we all have to learn this stuff somewhere along the way.
I'm just tired of seeing cards I want hit their book value/SMR price on Day 1 of an auction. >>
I'm not trying to start an arguement, but since you learned this stuff, please tell where this is in eBay so that I can learn it too. Am I missing something or does eBay dictate our bidding strategy? There is no absolute right or wrong way to bid. Everybody has their own style and does what works for them. If I see a card that I would just like to have, I will wait until the last minute to bid. However, if I see a card that I am very serious about owning then I bid early with a high enough proxy that will almost guarantee that I win the item.
If you're tired of seeing cards hit their book value/SMR price on Day 1, then it's real simple: BID MORE! >>
My, you're feisty. Okay, I'll bite.
First of all, I think the premise of your first paragraph is dishonest. You do know why I asked the question. You explained as much.
To answer your first question about why it matters, well....in a sense, it doesn't. Nothing matters in the end, depending on one's perspective. My perspective is that I want Card XYZ as cheaply as I can get it, so keeping the price down matters to me. The people who come in early and bid a card up halfway to it's sale price are driving up the max bids in the last minutes, more often than not. I know this because I've witnessed people think this way, and I myself have done it as well. The lower the current price is when you are in the final minute, the lower your max bid is likely to be. And as a buyer of Card XYZ, that sucks for me.
Another premise I disagree with is that I think "it's going to close at the same price either way." That's simply not true. A card has a likely range of prices at the end of it's sale. As a buyer, I'd prefer to spend on the lower end. $900 is different from $1100, particularly for me.
Does it matter if it closes at the same price with 25 bids or 3 bids? I don't know. Depends on what is important to you, I guess. Does it matter to me? Absolutely not. But to pretend that early high bidding of a card has no effect on the final price is a theory I don't agree with. Certainly we both have examples of both of our theories being proven correct. Maybe the auctions you watch go completely differently than the ones I watch? That's possible.
As for your second paragraph, I think you start it off dishonestly again. I think you are trying to start an argument.
I don't know where the game theory section of buying and selling strategy is in the Ebay help guide. I just learned it on the streets, I suppose. Can't help you out there.
I agree with your premise that there is no right or wrong way to bid. Of course this is true, especially if you don't qualify that statement with anything useful. When you add to the end of that sentence, though, it can get quite a bit more complicated. For instance, there IS a right way to bid if you want to not drive up the final price for yourself. There are quite a few tactical mistakes you can make if your goal is to buy low and sell high.
But please, by all means, continue to try and win cards on Day 1. That's a brilliant strategy. I don't begrudge you that right. I just think it's better to wait.
cheers
NOT with a major auction house. You are better off to place you best and highest bid first. Remember to figure in the juice though
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
<< <i>NOT with a major auction house. You are better off to place you best and highest bid first. >>
I can agree with that, especially if you want to get in the overtime without having to place a huge bid.
With me it all depends on the item. If it's something I really want I don't mind placing an early bid. I'd much rather get in it early than the seller think it's not going to go for much and sell the card away from ebay.
Ripken in the Minors * Ripken in the Minors Facebook Page
Either way, I bid what I will pay for it when I first see it. If I get it for that or less than Im happy. If it goes for more, than I need to adjust my bid accordingly the next time.
While there is no right or wrong way to bid, there are certainly more advantageous strategies that can affect the final price. If you think it's a good strategy to bid early, then I really don't know what to tell you.
While I completely agree with hallmark, he's going on the assumption that people always act rationally. Bidding early can only lead to a bidding war, which is certainly something that buyers would like to avoid. However, some people subconsciously enjoy the bidding war because of the action/competition. When they are the high bidder, it feels like they've won a game to them. Watch any sitcom from the 80s or 90s and there's always one episode where the main characters go to an auction, the bidding gets out of hand, and they end up spending way more than they wanted for whatever piece of crap that was being auctioned off. This really isn't far from the truth and it can get to the point where two bidders are shooting each other dirty looks and it becomes less about winning the item and more about beating the other person. This is the reason early bidding should be avoided, unless you're involved in some weird rebate program like earlycalguy.
Lee
For example:
A Bobby Grayson PSA 8 as "54 allamer graded" under 2006 baseball cards.
True story.
It's the only 8 in my TAA registry
Like you said there is no right or wrong way to bid, but
<< <i>Bidding early can only lead to a bidding war, which is certainly something that buyers would like to avoid. >>
isn't always true. As stated earlier, there are those of us who bid early and enter out highest proxy bid and really never get into a bidding war. Sure, others may bid and keep raising our bid, but we are always the high bidder unless someone enters a higher maximum than our proxy bid. It's not like I'm bidding the minimum bid and then you outbid me by $1.00, so I bid again and outbid you by $1.00 and it keeps going back and forth.
Just because someone doesn't share the same bidding strategy that you do, doesn't make it a "poor bidding strategy." There is a card that I'm bidding on right now that has an SMR of $275.00. I have a proxy bid of $388.00, but I am current high bidder at $255.00. I REALLY WANT THE CARD! If someone outbids me (which is unlikely) then so be it. If someone runs my bid up by trying to snipe it at the last minute, so be it. But it ends at 3:45 in the afterrnoon and I know that I will be at work and although I have a computer at work, I may be in a meeting, away from my computer or just forget about it. The way I do it allows me to place my bid early and then I don't have to sit there and watch it or worry about it.
Forget poor bidding strategy, lets talk about poor listing strategy. Why would a seller have an item end at 3:45 in the afternoon? Don't sellers realize that most people are at work at that time and some people don't have access to a computer to even place a last minute bid even if they wanted to?
No one can accuse this guy of keyword spamming.
Second of all, the people who incrementally bid the item up keep repeatedly talking themselves into bidding higher than they originally wanted to bid, with the result being you paying more for your card than had you set a snipe. Here's a common scenario- You are willing to bid $100 on card X. You put your max bid in early, are the high bidder at $40 and forget about it. Some guy comes along, decides he wants to bid on card X. He's willing to pay $60 for it, so he puts his high bid in at $60. he sees the dreaded red X and walks away. The desire to have the card festers in his mind for a day, so he comes back and decides he's willing to pay $75 for it- DAMN, ANOTHER RED X!!. "Screw this, I'm getting this card!!" Another red X at $85, and another at $95.
Well, congrats vintage- you just paid $96 for a card that you could've had for $61. When the guy put his max bid in for $60 and became the high bidder, you swipe in at the last second and outbid him with your snipe, leaving no chance for him to come back at you.
You're using faulty logic in assuming that everybody thinks like you and will bid accordingly. "Well, I'm willing to pay $100 for this card and not a penny more no matter what happens, so I'm putting my bid in now." Makes sense in a perfect world. With a lot of other people however, they're decisions are a lot more based on how they are feeling at that moment, and when you snipe your bids you are leaving them no chance to convince themselves they want to pay more. A bidding war doesn't necessarily mean the guys are coming back at each other. It could be one guy who has a high bid set, and another guy who is acting as though he's in a bidding war. Either way, the price gets driven up.
Lee
Obviously our opinions differ, but I see the point you made from your example. I could give you another example using my point, but I don't think either one of us are going to convince the other.
However, let's talk about the real issue that started this thread. The poster went from criticizing bidder's strategies, but then later stated,
<< <i>I'm just tired of seeing cards I want hit their book value/SMR price on Day 1 of an auction. >>
BINGO! That is the REAL issue. He is complaining because the card he wants is more than he wants to pay for it. I am tired of people whining about auctions they don't win. There was another thread on here a couple of days ago (I think it was on another forum) where the poster complained because he was outbid on the same card 3 different times, by the same bidder on three different auctions. His question was, "How many of the same card does one person need?" He was only venting because he didn't win the item. Same case here!
Good pick up on the "Ryan Sandburg"
I always use a line when I'm at a poker table and someone criticizes my play: "Next time, I'll tell you what I have and you tell me how much to bet."
You could say the same with regard to ebay: "I'll tell you how much money I have and you tell me what to bid."
I buy mostly very cheap cards. I like modern stuff and I don't get the whole Jersey thing so I'm usually under $10. I quit bidding early because I would lose every time. I can't tell you how many times someone would bid with a minute left then see that my bid was higher and then bid again in the last 15 seconds. I ONLY lost because I bid early. Now I snipe only and win about twice as many auctions.
Is there any way that the price can get raised if everyone just sniped? It would be a silent auction by proxy. Seems like it would keep the prices down to me.