<< <i>Maddux could possibly pitch til he is 45. .... >>
Even if he pitched 3 more years, he would have to average 17 wins per year to get to 400...that ain't happening...he will be lucky to get 10 wins this year....i will be hoping for his 3rd win tonite though.... he is pitching against someone that hasn't won in their last 5 starts.
Maddux gets all the love from me. EVEN BEFORE there was any mention of steroids and PEDs for Clemens, I thought I Maddux was the better pitcher. Maddux is going to go through a tough year pitching for the offense-crippled Padres. I just hope this doesn't "push" him to retirement.
The problem with Maddux's cards is that his rookie cards are in 1987 and there are just simply too many. That said, I do have a 1986 Procards Greg Maddux Pittsfield Cubs PSA 10 selling for $760.00 back on 2.17.08. Here's the picture:
<< <i>Maddux gets all the love from me. EVEN BEFORE there was any mention of steroids and PEDs for Clemens, I thought I Maddux was the better pitcher. Maddux is going to go through a tough year pitching for the offense-crippled Padres. I just hope this doesn't "push" him to retirement.
The problem with Maddux's cards is that his rookie cards are in 1987 and there are just simply too many. That said, I do have a 1986 Procards Greg Maddux Pittsfield Cubs PSA 10 selling for $760.00 back on 2.17.08. Here's the picture:
/s/ JackWESQ
>>
I agree with you on everything you say... Sweet Pittsfield Maddux...I had one of those before i dumped all my minor leagues....that was one of my toughest.
I only have 2 minors left, an alomar and college hoffman. The hoffman was a gift, and I can't see myself moving the alomar, as I know i Paid around $100 for it, and it probably wouldn't bring $10 now (lol)...so i held onto it. I believe I had the maddux in a 9, and bought and sold it for $300ish... Most of the minor league cards took a dump a couple years back ago....fortunately i moved most of them before they did.
I think I will start a seperate thread for maddux, seeing that I am hoping he gets his 350th tonite after his last 4 failed attempts. (bad padre offense, not him).
Cy Young 511 July 3, 1901 Walter Johnson 417 May 14, 1920 Grover Cleveland Alexander 373 September 20, 1924 Christy Mathewson 373 June 28, 1912 Warren Spahn 363 August 11, 1961 Pud Galvin 361 June 4, 1888 Kid Nichols 361 September 7, 1900 Roger Clemens 354 June 13, 2003 Greg Maddux 350 August 7, 2004 Tim Keefe 342 June 4, 1890 Steve Carlton 329 September 23, 1983 John Clarkson 328 September 21, 1892 Eddie Plank 326 September 11, 1915 Nolan Ryan 324 July 31, 1990 Don Sutton 324 June 18, 1986 Phil Niekro 318 October 6, 1985 Gaylord Perry 314 May 6, 1982 Tom Seaver 311 August 4, 1985 Charles Radbourn 310 May 14, 1891 Mickey Welch 307 August 11, 1890 Tom Glavine 303 August 5, 2007 Lefty Grove 300 July 25, 1941 Early Wynn 300 July 13, 1963
Not the most impressive performance by Johnson tonight. But who cares. At this point, I'll take 5 innings and any kind of lead. And a win is a win. Randy's up to 287 wins.
I would never say never, but it is unlikely we will see another 300 game winner for a long time. Randy Johnson has an outside shot, but I believe he said he would retire if he gets hurt again. Hall of Fame pitchers of the future will get in based on winning percentage, ERA and playoff performance. The typical Hall of Fame pitcher will have stats comparable to Whitey Ford rather than Warren Spahn.
Young and Johnson are untouchable, but if Maddux could pitch two years beyond this with a decent supporting cast, it's not out of the question he could be third all-time. He'll have to pick up at least 11 or 12 wins this year. Spahn pitched well into his 40s, but was just kind of hanging on at the end and only won a few games his last couple of years.
Getting to 375 would be phenomenal considering Maddux has pitched in the modern era, with 5-man rotations and not always for sensational teams.
This is Maddux's 23rd MLB season. But if you count his post-season pitching, where he's logged 194 career innings, he arm has felt the toll of 24 seasons. I can see how this might be irrelevant, but I think it is something to take into consideration when you're talking about two (2) or three (3) more seasons.
But I agree with Ripken, if somehow Maddux could get to 374 wins and 3rd all-time, that would be absolutely phenomenal!
<< <i>5. M Mussina*255 6. D Wells*239 7. J Moyer*232 8. C Schilling*216 9. K Rogers*212 10. J Smoltz*210 11. P Martinez*209 12. A Pettitte*204 >>
Interesting to note #10 on the list. Given his current injury and the fact that he will return as a closer this season and probably until his retirement, it is not unrealistic for him to end his career with 200+ Wins AND 200+ Saves! Talk about a guy that has done it for his team and mastered both ends of the pitching spectrum. Poor John Smoltz gets no love. I guess Maddux was right when he said, "Chicks dig the long ball..."
I'll take bets right now on whether Maddux surpasses 355. I'll also take bets on whether Sabathia gets to 200. He'll eat himself out of the league before that.
And also - yes, we will see another 300 game winner. Winners, in fact.
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports. Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
If I had to bet my life on the next guy to break 300, I'd say Tim Hudson at 141 and 32 years of age. He's been remarkably consistent and has a pitching style (smooth mechanics, not overpowering, great control) condusive to staying healthy. Very reminiscent of Maddux really.
I would think the only way to do it would be starting a career in the majors at 19/20 years old - say Felix Hernandez for example. Yes, he's struggled and I'm not saying he can be that effective or stay healthy (I actually think he CAN'T) - but he just turned 22 and has 32 wins. It would take some kind of phenom-type talent to win 300 games while only starting 32-35 times/year.
Hudson would make it if he averaged around 15 (his average wins per season now) wins a year and pitched until he was 43. Not out of the realm of possibility given his consistency.
Chalk up another victory for the Unit. He's now at 288 wins. Pretty good performance as well, to wit: 7 innings, 6 hits, 0 runs, 1 walk and 5 strike outs. Assuming he stays healthy (big if), I calculate him as having 23 more starts (listed below). Start number 12 wouldn't be until July 27 at S.F., and then August 1 at L.A. If the Unit reaches 300, I really can't see if happening until late August, early September ... if not the end of September.
In 2003 he was injured and missed a lot of the season, and everybody thought his career was over. In 2005 he came back and went 16-14 with a 2.60 era which doesn't seem possible. Then he went 17-8 and 17-11. Last year he got injured and everybody thinks his career is over again. Now he's 3-1 in 6 starts. He's not just sticking around, he's still a #2 or #3 starter for just about any team. If you look over the history of HOF pitchers, most of them stayed 2 or 3 years after they were clearly not effective. The Unit is still effective so it's a little too early to say he should retire. And even if he's just a .500 pitcher with a 4.00 era, he's earned the right to pad his stats like every other great pitcher has done.
Call it a last hurrah or whatever you want, but these guys put in 20+ great years, they deserve to call their own shots as long as they can still compete. I mean hell, Johnson has 5 Cy Young's (4 in a row) and has been a dominant strikeout pitcher for 2 decades, and can obviously still throw. Let the guy pitch if he's still somewhat effective.
Wow, it's been a while since I bumped this thread. Of course, Unit losing six (6) straight decisions before today's victory doesn't help. He's now at 289 wins. I figure he has 14 or 15 more starts this season. Going to be really tough to record 11 more wins. Of course, no says he has to win 300 this season. There's always next season. But who knows what's going to happen next season, or there is going to be a next season.
<< <i>Wow, it's been a while since I bumped this thread. Of course, Unit losing six (6) straight decisions before today's victory doesn't help. He's now at 289 wins. I figure he has 14 or 15 more starts this season. Going to be really tough to record 11 more wins. Of course, no says he has to win 300 this season. There's always next season. But who knows what's going to happen next season, or there is going to be a next season.
/s/ JackWESQ >>
Curious if he will stick around another season to try and get that 300 wins?
Well, at least he passed CLemens for all time strikeouts since the bump - YAY FOR THAT!
TOP 3 ALL TME STRIKEOUT LEADERS Rank Player Strikeouts 1. Nolan Ryan+ 5714 2. Randy Johnson* 4698 3. Roger Clemens 4672
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Back to back wins for the Unit. That's very good. Mark Grace said on air that he doesn't think Unit will make it to 300 this season. I tend to agree with him. That said, I hope and wouldn't be surprised if he did and I hope he does. Like I said above, you never know what's going to happen next season or if there is going to be a next season. Oh! 10 wins in his next 13 starts. That's going to be really, really though.
Awesome, three (3) straight wins for the Unit. Great performance tonight as well. 7 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs and 4 Ks. Like I said above, I don't think he'll get his 300th win this season, but I would love to be proven wrong. Nine (9) wins in his next twelve (12) starts? Gonna be tough.
Another win for the Unit. That's four (4) in a row and 292 wins for his career. Now he needs eight (8) wins in his next eleven (11) starts to get to 300 this season.
Well, if The Unit doesn't make it to 300 wins, he'll be the only pitcher in MLB history to make it to 290, but not 300.
Wrong. Bobby Mathews finished with 297 wins.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
maybe his recent performance will boost his rc sales. he is helping out my fantasy squads quite a bit.. nice pick up off the waiver wire! (along with Ubaldo Jimenez)
After the Big Unit, not sure anybody else will ever make it.
Of the older pitchers, Mussina and Pettite have an outside shot as long as they stay with the Yankees or another winning team. However, there are only 11 active pitchers right now with over 150 wins, and the youngest of them is Pettitte at 36.
Among younger pitchers, you've got to look at how old they were when they got their 100th win. With the exception of Gaylord Perry and Phil Niekro, every other 300-game winner had 100 wins by their 28th birthday (most by their 27th).
Of the under-30 generation, I'd give CC Sabathia the best shot, as long as he signs with a strong team this offseason. He won his 100th game just a couple of months after his 27th birthday, is strong and durable, and has a nice smooth motion that will minimize the chances of him getting injured. You also have to think Carlos Zambrano has a strong shot as long as his arm doesn't fall off. He will likely get his 100th win either late this year or early next year as a 27-year-old, and like Sabathia has the build and stamina to pitch a lot of innings. I would have included Jake Peavy in this group as well until he started having arm troubles this year and the Padres stopped scoring runs.
After Sabathia & Zambrano, the next best bet might be Mark Buehrle. He's an innings eater who never gets injured, plays for a good team which gives him lots of run support, and got his 100th win just after his 28th birthday.
Johan Santana has a shot, but is a couple of years behind (won his 100th game after his 29th birthday). However, if he can string together a few 20-win seasons with the Mets, he'd be back in the hunt. Likewise with Roy Oswalt, who has 120 wins, but didn't win his 100th until after his 29th birthday. Roy Halladay, however, is probably doomed by the fact that he didn't have his first 30-start season until he was 25, as well as the fact that arm surgery has already caused him to miss parts of both the 2004 and 2005 seasons.
Barry Zito could be the next Tom Glavine, but is likely doomed by the prospect of spending the next six years with the low-scoring Giants, never mind his declining pitching ability.
Of the really young guys, the guys with probably the best shot right now would be Ervin Santana, who will pass 50 wins as a 25-year-old and plays for a strong team in the Angels that shoud enable him to get too 100 wins around his 28th birthday, and Scott Kazmir if he can stay healthy.
Comments
Collector of OPC 1980-1985
<< <i>Maddux could possibly pitch til he is 45. .... >>
Even if he pitched 3 more years, he would have to average 17 wins per year to get to 400...that ain't happening...he will be lucky to get 10 wins this year....i will be hoping for his 3rd win tonite though....
he is pitching against someone that hasn't won in their last 5 starts.
The problem with Maddux's cards is that his rookie cards are in 1987 and there are just simply too many. That said, I do have a 1986 Procards Greg Maddux Pittsfield Cubs PSA 10 selling for $760.00 back on 2.17.08. Here's the picture:
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>Maddux gets all the love from me. EVEN BEFORE there was any mention of steroids and PEDs for Clemens, I thought I Maddux was the better pitcher. Maddux is going to go through a tough year pitching for the offense-crippled Padres. I just hope this doesn't "push" him to retirement.
The problem with Maddux's cards is that his rookie cards are in 1987 and there are just simply too many. That said, I do have a 1986 Procards Greg Maddux Pittsfield Cubs PSA 10 selling for $760.00 back on 2.17.08. Here's the picture:
/s/ JackWESQ
>>
I agree with you on everything you say...
Sweet Pittsfield Maddux...I had one of those before i dumped all my minor leagues....that was one of my toughest.
I only have 2 minors left, an alomar and college hoffman. The hoffman was a gift, and I can't see myself moving the alomar, as I know i Paid around $100 for it, and it probably wouldn't bring $10 now (lol)...so i held onto it. I believe I had the maddux in a 9, and bought and sold it for $300ish... Most of the minor league cards took a dump a couple years back ago....fortunately i moved most of them before they did.
I think I will start a seperate thread for maddux, seeing that I am hoping he gets his 350th tonite after his last 4 failed attempts. (bad padre offense, not him).
Cy Young 511 July 3, 1901
Walter Johnson 417 May 14, 1920
Grover Cleveland Alexander 373 September 20, 1924
Christy Mathewson 373 June 28, 1912
Warren Spahn 363 August 11, 1961
Pud Galvin 361 June 4, 1888
Kid Nichols 361 September 7, 1900
Roger Clemens 354 June 13, 2003
Greg Maddux 350 August 7, 2004
Tim Keefe 342 June 4, 1890
Steve Carlton 329 September 23, 1983
John Clarkson 328 September 21, 1892
Eddie Plank 326 September 11, 1915
Nolan Ryan 324 July 31, 1990
Don Sutton 324 June 18, 1986
Phil Niekro 318 October 6, 1985
Gaylord Perry 314 May 6, 1982
Tom Seaver 311 August 4, 1985
Charles Radbourn 310 May 14, 1891
Mickey Welch 307 August 11, 1890
Tom Glavine 303 August 5, 2007
Lefty Grove 300 July 25, 1941
Early Wynn 300 July 13, 1963
/s/ JackWESQ
It'll be rare, but Hall of Famers are rare.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Getting to 375 would be phenomenal considering Maddux has pitched in the modern era, with 5-man rotations and not always for sensational teams.
But I agree with Ripken, if somehow Maddux could get to 374 wins and 3rd all-time, that would be absolutely phenomenal!
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. Maddux is NOT getting 400, or 375... in fact, I would say 355 will be about it.
<< <i>5. M Mussina*255
6. D Wells*239
7. J Moyer*232
8. C Schilling*216
9. K Rogers*212
10. J Smoltz*210
11. P Martinez*209
12. A Pettitte*204
>>
Interesting to note #10 on the list. Given his current injury and the fact that he will return as a closer this season and probably until his retirement, it is not unrealistic for him to end his career with 200+ Wins AND 200+ Saves! Talk about a guy that has done it for his team and mastered both ends of the pitching spectrum. Poor John Smoltz gets no love. I guess Maddux was right when he said, "Chicks dig the long ball..."
And also - yes, we will see another 300 game winner. Winners, in fact.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
As for Maddux and 355, I'm not a gambling man, but if I were, I'd take that bet (and say that he will easily surpass 355).
/s/ JackWESQ
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
/s/ JackWESQ
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<< <i>Randy Johnson will end up with just by sticking around longer than he really should have. >>
Still helping with 4 wins and 1 loss....
Call it a last hurrah or whatever you want, but these guys put in 20+ great years, they deserve to call their own shots as long as they can still compete. I mean hell, Johnson has 5 Cy Young's (4 in a row) and has been a dominant strikeout pitcher for 2 decades, and can obviously still throw. Let the guy pitch if he's still somewhat effective.
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>Wow, it's been a while since I bumped this thread. Of course, Unit losing six (6) straight decisions before today's victory doesn't help. He's now at 289 wins. I figure he has 14 or 15 more starts this season. Going to be really tough to record 11 more wins. Of course, no says he has to win 300 this season. There's always next season. But who knows what's going to happen next season, or there is going to be a next season.
/s/ JackWESQ >>
Curious if he will stick around another season to try and get that 300 wins?
Well, at least he passed CLemens for all time strikeouts since the bump - YAY FOR THAT!
TOP 3 ALL TME STRIKEOUT LEADERS
Rank Player Strikeouts
1. Nolan Ryan+ 5714
2. Randy Johnson* 4698
3. Roger Clemens 4672
<< <i>Well, at least he passed CLemens for all time strikeouts since the bump - YAY FOR THAT! >>
I am pretty sure that record is held by a fella named Nolan Ryan
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, at least he passed CLemens for all time strikeouts since the bump - YAY FOR THAT! >>
I am pretty sure that record is held by a fella named Nolan Ryan >>
yes, and RJ passed Clemens on that record for the #2 spot....
Do you think Clemens will come out of retirement again to overtake Randy? (LOL)
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>MOOOOOOOOOOSE. >>
Very feasible...at 261 wins...a few more years and he can do it...on that thought, i just bought this card.
/s/ JackWESQ
Steve
<< <i>Well, if The Unit doesn't make it to 300 wins, he'll be the only pitcher in MLB history to make it to 290, but not 300.
Steve >>
So close yet so far away ....
Sure hope he does it though .... hate to see anyone get that close to a soon-to-be extinct record only to fall short by 1 or 2 games!
PoppaJ
<< <i>Me, too I would love to see the Big Unit get to 300! >>
Me Three, I am sure he won't do it this season, so hope he will consider one more season, if he doesn't.
I am still anxiously waiting for this card to arrive.
<< <i>Me, too I would love to see the Big Unit get to 300! >>
wat?
/s/ JackWESQ
/s/ JackWESQ
Steve
I watched the game on television and I must admit, I had renewed interest with Manny on the Dodgers.
So now, Randy needs seven (7) out of the next ten (10) to reach 300. I'm certainly rooting for it.
/s/ JackWESQ
Wrong. Bobby Mathews finished with 297 wins.
<< <i> Hey, a fellow poster! Greetings SDSportsFan!
I watched the game on television and I must admit, I had renewed interest with Manny on the Dodgers.
So now, Randy needs seven (7) out of the next ten (10) to reach 300. I'm certainly rooting for it.
/s/ JackWESQ >>
I'm rooting for Randy Johnson as well, but I didn't want him to pitch so well against the Dodgers.
<< <i> hoping Unit's spot comes up again when they play L.A., just so we can watch him OWN Andruw Jones >>
That's a good one, but every pitcher owned Jones this year...lol! I wish the Dodgers could have packaged Andruw to the Bosox somehow.
<< <i>
<< <i> hoping Unit's spot comes up again when they play L.A., just so we can watch him OWN Andruw Jones >>
That's a good one, but every pitcher owned Jones this year...lol! I wish the Dodgers could have packaged Andruw to the Bosox somehow. >>
pretty amazing, actually.....what's he now, 45????? mowing down guys with reduced velocity and that same ol' slider......hitters are SO stupid!
he is helping out my fantasy squads quite a bit.. nice pick up off the waiver wire! (along with Ubaldo Jimenez)
"Well no one can match Maris's 61"
As far as I'm concerned no one has yet matched Maris's 61 homeruns!!
Of the older pitchers, Mussina and Pettite have an outside shot as long as they stay with the Yankees or another winning team. However, there are only 11 active pitchers right now with over 150 wins, and the youngest of them is Pettitte at 36.
Among younger pitchers, you've got to look at how old they were when they got their 100th win. With the exception of Gaylord Perry and Phil Niekro, every other 300-game winner had 100 wins by their 28th birthday (most by their 27th).
Of the under-30 generation, I'd give CC Sabathia the best shot, as long as he signs with a strong team this offseason. He won his 100th game just a couple of months after his 27th birthday, is strong and durable, and has a nice smooth motion that will minimize the chances of him getting injured. You also have to think Carlos Zambrano has a strong shot as long as his arm doesn't fall off. He will likely get his 100th win either late this year or early next year as a 27-year-old, and like Sabathia has the build and stamina to pitch a lot of innings. I would have included Jake Peavy in this group as well until he started having arm troubles this year and the Padres stopped scoring runs.
After Sabathia & Zambrano, the next best bet might be Mark Buehrle. He's an innings eater who never gets injured, plays for a good team which gives him lots of run support, and got his 100th win just after his 28th birthday.
Johan Santana has a shot, but is a couple of years behind (won his 100th game after his 29th birthday). However, if he can string together a few 20-win seasons with the Mets, he'd be back in the hunt. Likewise with Roy Oswalt, who has 120 wins, but didn't win his 100th until after his 29th birthday. Roy Halladay, however, is probably doomed by the fact that he didn't have his first 30-start season until he was 25, as well as the fact that arm surgery has already caused him to miss parts of both the 2004 and 2005 seasons.
Barry Zito could be the next Tom Glavine, but is likely doomed by the prospect of spending the next six years with the low-scoring Giants, never mind his declining pitching ability.
Of the really young guys, the guys with probably the best shot right now would be Ervin Santana, who will pass 50 wins as a 25-year-old and plays for a strong team in the Angels that shoud enable him to get too 100 wins around his 28th birthday, and Scott Kazmir if he can stay healthy.
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