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What is a CBH "Guido"
23Pairer
Posts: 911 ✭✭✭
I recently purchased this 1833 CBH from a friend, because I liked the history of the "Guido". Thought I would share my pictures and the words of Edgar Souders in Bust Half Fever, 2nd Edition.
I quote,
"What is a Capped Bust half dollar “Guido?” A Guido is a
CBH that, when only in planchet form, was cranked through the
edge lettering machine incorrectly and did not make a complete
revolution between the bar dies. This means it is an edge-lettering
error. But let me explain.
When a planchet was forced between the lettered edge bar
dies it actually pushed in the edge of the planchet and made the
planchet more or less perfectly round. This impressed the edge
lettering and also upset the outer edge, to a degree, which helped
force the metal up and into the WDs during the later strike.
However, when a planchet did not make a complete revolution,
due to improper feeding, then the result was two small areas,
directly across form one another that would not upset along the
edge. After the strike occurred these same areas appear as flat
spots along the dentilation.
To most collectors and dealers this flattened area on the struck
halves looks like damage. Then too, damage can sometimes look
like a Guido, but there are ways to tell the difference and those
differences are as follows;
If you study the edge lettering on a true Guido you will note
there is never lettering on the spot where the flat edge strike
appears. Not a single letter! Why? Because this spot is exactly
where the bar dies did not impress the planchet. Therefore the
edge was not pushed in by the edge lettering/rimming machine
and not lettered. Thus, as the planchet expanded during the strike
the metal flowed past this non-upset area.
These flat spots show up on the obverse and reverse directly
though to the opposite side. If you think you are viewing a Guido
but you only see it on one side, and the other side appears fully
struck up, then you are looking at damage.
If you draw a straight line directly across the coin, bisecting it,
you will note that a flattened spot occurs at the other end of your
bisecting line. The reason for this is due to the, earlier
mentioned, improper feed through the bar dies. As each bar die
impressed exactly half of the edge lettering – an incomplete crank
through meant the planchet did not complete the length of the bar
dies at both ends. This is why the flat spots appear across from
one another.
Capped Bust half specialist, Keith Bellman, was the first to
decipher this strange phenomena more than a decade ago."
I quote,
"What is a Capped Bust half dollar “Guido?” A Guido is a
CBH that, when only in planchet form, was cranked through the
edge lettering machine incorrectly and did not make a complete
revolution between the bar dies. This means it is an edge-lettering
error. But let me explain.
When a planchet was forced between the lettered edge bar
dies it actually pushed in the edge of the planchet and made the
planchet more or less perfectly round. This impressed the edge
lettering and also upset the outer edge, to a degree, which helped
force the metal up and into the WDs during the later strike.
However, when a planchet did not make a complete revolution,
due to improper feeding, then the result was two small areas,
directly across form one another that would not upset along the
edge. After the strike occurred these same areas appear as flat
spots along the dentilation.
To most collectors and dealers this flattened area on the struck
halves looks like damage. Then too, damage can sometimes look
like a Guido, but there are ways to tell the difference and those
differences are as follows;
If you study the edge lettering on a true Guido you will note
there is never lettering on the spot where the flat edge strike
appears. Not a single letter! Why? Because this spot is exactly
where the bar dies did not impress the planchet. Therefore the
edge was not pushed in by the edge lettering/rimming machine
and not lettered. Thus, as the planchet expanded during the strike
the metal flowed past this non-upset area.
These flat spots show up on the obverse and reverse directly
though to the opposite side. If you think you are viewing a Guido
but you only see it on one side, and the other side appears fully
struck up, then you are looking at damage.
If you draw a straight line directly across the coin, bisecting it,
you will note that a flattened spot occurs at the other end of your
bisecting line. The reason for this is due to the, earlier
mentioned, improper feed through the bar dies. As each bar die
impressed exactly half of the edge lettering – an incomplete crank
through meant the planchet did not complete the length of the bar
dies at both ends. This is why the flat spots appear across from
one another.
Capped Bust half specialist, Keith Bellman, was the first to
decipher this strange phenomena more than a decade ago."
0
Comments
TD
And is it only possible on edge-lettered coins, or can it happen to any planchet with upset rims?
Edgar is "FEVER" on this forum and I am sure he will visit this thread soon to expand upon this phenomenon.
Then we will find out if this "Guido" was named after a distant cousin named Guido who lives in Brooklyn.
Thank you for the excellent read (quoting E Souder's book). I'm always fascinated with the intricacies and the inner workings of "coin manufacturing". It's these little nuances, whether human or mechanical error within the confines of the mint that excite me the most about our U.S. coins.
Joe
Nice image! You can see from the image where the edge failed to run all the way through the Castaing machine.
Can you share an image of the edge?
122/123
John Reich Collectors Society
Capped Bust Dimes
I don't know how to link the post but here are some pics
zap
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
You learn something new every day.
-Randy Newman
I did not know it’s called a GUIDO though…a name that could be readily accepted though.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>Is there any premium attached to a Guido CBH? Just how rare are these minting anomalies?
zap >>
I don't see why anyone would pay extra for a Guido on a Bustie. Some might even pass on buying because they do not like the look. Personally, I would pay less for a coin with a Guido.
zap
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
Some folks like to collect by different classes types or error coins.
Some like to do a set of first years.
Might be interesting to collect a Guido from each year of the series.
That may be harder than it sounds.
so if you need that last one,,, you have been looking for years, finally found it and it is the perfect one.
for sure you will pay a premiun if necessary
Bigger version of the same picture
I do not see a Guido, only a rim bruise.
PS- the missing letters are just about exactly where the top of Liberty's head are on the coin, or at the bottom of the reverse, in other words (you can kinda see some of the reverse- particularly "50 C" - in the larger version of my edge scan).
That's what I call it, too.
AHA- I begin to see the point.
I didn't read enough of the OP... an edge letter error alone does not make a Guido, eh?
I did read the OP, when it was first posted, but had forgotten the particulars.
S'OK. I'm happy with an edge letter error.
E22. Yeah. That's what they called it. Thanks. I surmised that it was pretty common, when somebody else discovered one during the course of my thread. That's OK, though, I like it. And the coin (except that the reverse got a little cleaned at some point.)