What's The Toughest BB Set To Complete...

Cincykid8123

in near mint condition or better? I'd probably have to go with Topps '71 or maybe Topps '62.

BobbyVCP

N172 Old Judge set....hands down nothing else is even close

FavreFan1971

1989 K-Mart.

mikeschmidt

Cincykid8123:

There are dozens of baseball sets that are impossible to complete in Near Mint or better:

Pre-War:
Old Judges
Old Judge Cabinets
T231
T215
E104 (any of the three series)
etc. etc. the list goes on

Post-War:
1961 Dice Game
1980 Topps Pepsi
1951 Topps Teams (potentially possible one day...)
1951 Topps All-Stars

cravetopps

you would have to ask this question a different way - pre-1920 and post 1920 or something like that. There are many, probably hundreds of sets which cannot be completed in NM or better. N172, N300, E91, E94....and many more are impossible in NM or better even if you combined all the cards in the registry. Most famous "tough set" would have to be the T206. The 71 Topps is a cakewalk compared to these.

1954

there are many sets that are difficult to make in nrmt condition. 1962 and 1971 are not in this catagory. Some of the sets that I have made over the years that I have found to be incredibly difficult are the 1947 Tip Top bread (currently there are only 8 cards that have been graded a PSA 7 or 8 out of 163 cards), 1954 Wilson Weiners, 1934 Batter ups, and the 1951 Topps current and All-stars to name a few.

Shane

sonoranmonsoon

I would say the T206's would rank high. You have to have the Wagner card, and it is a bit pricey these days!

WinPitcher

Judging by the OP answer I would have to think that he is implying mainstream sets from 1948 and up.

I base this on his answer.

If that is the case then I would tend to agree with him.

I also agree with those that said the question was to open ended.


Steve

RonBurgundy

I concur with what Steve said.



Ron

bobsbbcards

I agree with Ron.

bishop

Not sure who is right, but in my experience Bob is often wrong

bobsbbcards

I agree with Bishop too.

tkd7

Its all relative. The sets mentioned are tough from a condition standpoint, but with the dollars, it can be done. There are other sets that are difficult from a scarcity stanpoint, and the cards just may not exist in NM condition.

mikeschmidt

how come no one said 1988 Donruss?

Also -- Bob and Bishop are part of a weird oddball collecting cult, and therefore any answers they provide ought to be disregarded

Griffins

I agree with Marc (Mike).

DerekD

I always liked the sets that the Standard Catalog said something along the lines of "Complete checklist unknown". My favorite is the 33 Tattoo Orbit R308. You had to get the cards wet for the image to show up (wouldn't guess that would be good for condition) and 10 of the 60 cards are still unknown.

DD

purelyPSA

I agree with everyone here who signed up for Simnasium Baseball.

HammeringHank

I agree...

julen23

haters.

i think it is more of a function of $$$, nothings difficult w/ it.

w/o it, i have to agree w/ bob.

j

armourlarry

without a doubt the hardest set to complete in any condition
51 topps current all stars since 3 of the cards less than 5 of each exist
61 dice game is next as less than 5 of each exist also
55 felin franks may even be harder as some of the cards may not exist at all
and no matter how much money u have you cant buy them since theyre not for sale

Estil

<< <i>there are many sets that are difficult to make in nrmt condition. ...1971 are not in this catagory. >>



Are you f-ing kidding me!? 1971 is THE ultimate challenge (for 1948-onwards anyway) in terms of making a NRMT or better set. Those jet black borders that can easily be chipped/damaged, and the fact that it's now a 36 year old set doesn't help matters either. It's also a pretty good size set w/ the usual high numbers too. 1971 most definetly is #1 tough in terms of finding top grade cards.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>1971 is THE ultimate challenge (for 1948-onwards anyway) in terms of making a NRMT or better set. >>


Compared to what? Are you talking Topps mainstream sets? If so, then you might have a point. If you're talking any set, then you are way off base.

- there have been 102,886 1971 Topps cards graded by PSA in unqualified 7 or higher. One more time - 102,886 (probably that number will be significantly higher each time someone reads this post).

I'll just pick some random tough sets, not yet mentioned in this thread.

- 1956 Kahn's -- 6 total cards graded, none higher than a 5.

- 1964 Detroit Tiger Milk Bottle Caps - 1 graded (it was either a 3 or a 4).

- 1967 O-Pee-Chee - 189 total cards graded, 77 in unqualified 7 or higher.

- 1968 Venezuelan Topps - 200 total cards graded, 5 in unqualified 7 or higher. One more time - 5.

The list could go on forever. 1971 Topps cards in NM 7 or higher are as common as dirt. They're just not as common as the other regular Topps sets.

Estil

Then how come even a top grade (NRMT or better) RAW set is still very highly coveted on the 'Bay and routinely goes for $2000-$2500 or more (even higher if there are key cards in PSA 8 or higher sprinkled in)? That doesn't sound like a condition cakewalk to me.

And yes, I do mean the "mainstream" sets.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>Then how come even a top grade (NRMT or better) RAW set is still very highly coveted on the 'Bay and routinely goes for $2000-$2500 or more (even higher if there are key cards in PSA 8 or higher sprinkled in)? That doesn't sound like a condition cakewalk to me.

And yes, I do mean the "mainstream" sets. >>


If you're talking about "mainstream" sets, then I agree completely. I'd gladly pay more than $2,500 for a PSA 7 set of '71 Topps with a few of the key cards in 8.

Estil

Frankly, I'd be thrilled just to get Steve's (BBCE) 1971 set that recently was up for sale for $1000 (raw, EX-EXMTish). But that's way too rich for my blood at the moment.

sagard

The difference is that '71 Topps can be found comparitively easily nrmt or better with enough money. Many of those others mentioned you simply can't find in high grade.

1960toppsguy

1939 play ball

Cincykid8123

Of the modern sets, 1971 has been my toughest challenge. Anyone who claims that it isn't, doesn't own a '71 Topps BB card! Lee Maye is a bear! I'm beginning to hate that card.

bishop

Let's face it. Bob is not mainstream.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>Let's face it. Bob is not mainstream. >>

Buccaneer

<< <i>

<< <i>there are many sets that are difficult to make in nrmt condition. ...1971 are not in this catagory. >>



Are you f-ing kidding me!? 1971 is THE ultimate challenge (for 1948-onwards anyway) in terms of making a NRMT or better set. Those jet black borders that can easily be chipped/damaged, and the fact that it's now a 36 year old set doesn't help matters either. It's also a pretty good size set w/ the usual high numbers too. 1971 most definetly is #1 tough in terms of finding top grade cards. >>



Estil, you are showing your ignorance again. Go look at the Set Registry. You will see that there are around 30 1971 sets that are completed (or very close to being completed) in PSA 7 or better. Compare that to some of the 1960s sets and all of the 1950 sets where the number of completed sets in 7 or better is lower. 1971 is considered modern by some people, or at least semi-vintange, so knock it off with the "it's 36 years old" crap. Age has little to do with it. That may be old to you but by the early 70s (at least by 1973), we (and Topps) were already into the non-vintage era. And for someone who thinks the 1975 set is the holy grail, how would you know anything about 1948-onwards??

Stingray

Did a partial comparison, 1953 to 1971 for sets completed (taken from current finest lists) for grade average 7.0 or better:

11 sets for 1953

16 for 1971

gemint

I don't think the '67 OPC is that tough. I just think it's not popular enough to get submitted. I have a few without even looking for them but I don't submit the commons because they don't sell.

As for 1971's, finding NM cards is easy. Finding NM-MT cards is a lot tougher. Finding Mint cards is very tough. However, there's so much of that material out there that it makes building that set a lot easier. I see at least 1 high grade set for sale in every Mastro auction. I've even bought a few of them. My set is almost complete in NM or better just through my own submissions. If I bought single graded cards to fill it in, I'd have been done with it a long time ago.

1954

<< <i>Frankly, I'd be thrilled just to get Steve's (BBCE) 1971 set that recently was up for sale for $1000 (raw, EX-EXMTish). But that's way too rich for my blood at the moment. >>



This is probably the reason you feel that the 71 set is so hard. Anyone can build this set if they wanted to. While I agree that it is a very nice set in this grade, it does not compare to many of the sets mentioned.

SL

perkdog

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>there are many sets that are difficult to make in nrmt condition. ...1971 are not in this catagory. >>



Are you f-ing kidding me!? 1971 is THE ultimate challenge (for 1948-onwards anyway) in terms of making a NRMT or better set. Those jet black borders that can easily be chipped/damaged, and the fact that it's now a 36 year old set doesn't help matters either. It's also a pretty good size set w/ the usual high numbers too. 1971 most definetly is #1 tough in terms of finding top grade cards. >>



Estil, you are showing your ignorance again. Go look at the Set Registry. You will see that there are around 30 1971 sets that are completed (or very close to being completed) in PSA 7 or better. Compare that to some of the 1960s sets and all of the 1950 sets where the number of completed sets in 7 or better is lower. 1971 is considered modern by some people, or at least semi-vintange, so knock it off with the "it's 36 years old" crap. Age has little to do with it. That may be old to you but by the early 70s (at least by 1973), we (and Topps) were already into the non-vintage era. And for someone who thinks the 1975 set is the holy grail, how would you know anything about 1948-onwards?? >>




Just stopping in to check this thread out and read this, imo it has to be one of the funniest responses I have seen yet. No offense against estil just funny reading..

speeder

Greetings

I have been trying to complete a 6 card/disc set for years now. Thats right, a disc set and only 6 of them.

The 1975 MSA blank back test disc set. There were only 6 of them. and no "king kellogg" aka "duke-o-discs",, only had 4 of them.

I have 5 of them,, but the Tom Seaver disc has been QUITE DIFFICULT to locate.

Long story short,, i agree with my friend "Bobsbbcards",,,,, 1971 cards are a condition sensitive set for sure !! And its a great set. But are there any cards in the set that PSA has not graded ?? I mean not graded at all,, in any grade ??

There are no PSA graded examples of a 1975 Tom Seaver Blank back test disc. And the only 2 graded examples of the Johnny Bench MSA test disc have been from me submitting the same disc twice, trying the old upgrade thing.

So for me,, it would the 1975 MSA Blank Back Test Disc set.

Thanks, Lee

rbdjr1

Try to find another set from the mid 70's that is harder to complete in mint condition!

1976 OPC Baseball (NM or NM-MT maybe, but in mint, forget about it!)

rd

Estil

<< <i>

<< <i>Estil, you are showing your ignorance again. Go look at the Set Registry. You will see that there are around 30 1971 sets that are completed (or very close to being completed) in PSA 7 or better. Compare that to some of the 1960s sets and all of the 1950 sets where the number of completed sets in 7 or better is lower. 1971 is considered modern by some people, or at least semi-vintange, so knock it off with the "it's 36 years old" crap. Age has little to do with it. That may be old to you but by the early 70s (at least by 1973), we (and Topps) were already into the non-vintage era. And for someone who thinks the 1975 set is the holy grail, how would you know anything about 1948-onwards?? >>




Just stopping in to check this thread out and read this, imo it has to be one of the funniest responses I have seen yet. No offense against estil just funny reading.. >>

>>



Indeed, I believe he is missing my point. I simply meant for right now and with the limited funds we currently have, the 1975 set is my ultimate goal. Now, sometime in the future, if and when I have a better career (it would help if I knew what exactly I wanted to do in that regard) and cn make more money (I'm sure I will at SOME point), then I can go for early 70s/60s or even 50s sets. And how would I know anything about 1948 onwards? While it is true that I personally have never owned anything before 1976 other than a few sample commons, I am what you would call "a student of the hobby" who loves to read about baseball cards, their history, and what makes each set "tick" so to speak. That's why I like my Beckett Baseball Card Alamanac along with other baseball card resources. In fact, I hope one day a major documentary is done on baseball cards and their history. IMO, that's as fascinating as the history of the game itself. And BTW, calling me "ignorant" is not being a very good teacher.

And I was simply stating that PSA pop reports alone is not the be all-tell all of a sets difficulty. You must factor in ALL considerations to make an accurate judgement, and the fact there are so many 1971's out there graded and raw supports the fact that people understand how tough it is to find really top grades and that makes more people want to try. After all, you see TONS of Mickey Mantle cards from the 50s/60s sets in the population reports (compared to that year's commons/lesser stars) but that doesn't mean Mickey's cards are easier to find. It simply means more people love and want Mickey cards and thus more people "try their luck" so to speak to see if their raw Mantle will end up in a top grade PSA holder.

And finally, I did not realize that there is another post-1948 set out there that is tough to assemble condition wise for much the same reason as 1971. 1953 Topps. While it doesn't have a jet black border all around, it does have that black/red "nameplate" in one corner that also can be easily chipped/damaged making top grade copies hard to come by also.

Buccaneer

I understand, but one doesn't start the learning process by jumping to erroneous conclusions based on perception and pure guesswork. Read how others responded (in saying that 71s are relatively easy) and if you are a student, learn first before making such ludicrous statements...



<< <i>Are you f-ing kidding me!? 1971 is THE ultimate challenge (for 1948-onwards anyway) in terms of making a NRMT or better set. Those jet black borders that can easily be chipped/damaged, and the fact that it's now a 36 year old set doesn't help matters either. It's also a pretty good size set w/ the usual high numbers too. 1971 most definetly is #1 tough in terms of finding top grade cards. >> >>

rbdjr1

getting back to a mid-seventies set: 1976 O-Pee-Chee Baseball: Pop 524 (4 PSA 10's, 84 PSA 9's, 193 PSA 8's, 92 PSA 7's, 51 PSA 6's, 38 lower PSA's)

Some Pops:

001 - Hank Aaron RB - Pop 18 - 5 PSA 7's
010 - Lou Brock - Pop 2 - 1 PSA 8
019 - George Brett - Pop 22 - 1 PSA 9
098 - Dennis Eckersley Rookie - Pop 37 - 2 PSA 10's & 8 PSA 9's
160 - Dave Winfield - Pop 12 - 1 PSA 9
230 - YAZ - Pop 6 - 4 PSA 8's
240 - Pete Rose - Pop 5 - 1 PSA 7
300 - Johnny Bench - Pop 2 - 1 PSA 8
330 - Nolan Ryan - Pop 16 - 4 PSA 8
345 - Babe Ruth - Pop 5 - 2 PSA 8's
480 - Mike Schmidt - Pop 9 - 2 PSA 8's
500 - Reggie Jackson - Pop 13 - 3 PS 9's
550 - Hank Aaron - Pop 24 - 1 PSA 10 & 3 PSA 9's (I sold the PSA 10 a few years back. Think it sold for about $2,500? Can't remember!)
592 - Willie Randolph Rookie - Pop 4 - 4 PSA 8's
599 - Ron Guidry Rookie - Pop 6 - 1 PSA 10 & 1 PSA 9

source: latest SMR

rd

edit: Many of the sets mentioned in this thread (i.e., old judge, 1956 Kahn's, 1939 Play Ball, 1968 Venezuelan Topps, just to mention a few) are so rare, that for the purposes of me picking the toughest set, I used a more modern approach, and used the 1970's as my guide in choosing. The 1970 OPC and the 1974 OPC baseball go right along with 1976 OPC baseball, as being tough. I guess I just favor the '76 OPC's!