I really hope the guys that actually electrocuted and beat those dogs gets the stiffest sentence. If that was Vick then fine. But, I would hate to see the worst of these guys get out early for helping to turn in Vick. I saw that there was no sentence agreement in the plea deal, but he must be getting something for cooperating. It looks to me like they are saying that Vick is the worst for having the money to fund the whole thing and I don't see that as the best approach. The abuse itself is what needs to be penalized the most if this is going to detour future would be dog fighters. I hope I'm wrong somewhere here, but that's how it looks to me.
To bigdcards: "you are right" - cpamike "That is correct" -grote15
I would be willing to bet that Tony Taylor made a deal, however at this point it is tough to tell otherwise that all people involved are not equally guilty, however if the property that this all went down on is all Vicks then he may be held most responsible.
Normally, the one who finances the activity is the hardest to fall.
In other words, they want the top dog and ring leader of the operation, no pun intended
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Goes to show when the Federal Grand Jury has an indictment, 99 out of 100 times, the accused is going down one way or another.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Other NFL teams won't be able to sign him if/when he's banned from the NFL.
Maybe the CFL or Arena League will pick him up..
Who knows, maybe he'll pull a PacMan and join wrestling.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Other NFL teams won't be able to sign him if/when he's banned from the NFL. >>
Who's to say he'll be banned from the NFL? I highly doubt the NFL has the legal means to prevent someone from making a living, and preventing any team from signing him. They attempt to ban him for life, the NFL will have the legal fight of its life on its hands.
Goes to show when the Federal Grand Jury has an indictment, 99 out of 100 times, the accused is going down one way or another. >>
Remember OJ? >>
I'm pretty sure that was State, not Federal. Big difference.
<< <i>Who's to say he'll be banned from the NFL? I highly doubt the NFL has the legal means to prevent someone from making a living, and preventing any team from signing him. They attempt to ban him for life, the NFL will have the legal fight of its life on its hands. >>
The NFL can ban anyone they want for violating their rules because it's their league. Just go ask Ricky Williams and PacMan.. There are other ways to make a living and playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i> The NFL can ban anyone they want for violating their rules because it's their league. Just go ask Ricky Williams and PacMan.. There are other ways to make a living and playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. >>
The NFL has a substance abuse policy in place which Ricky violated several times, and he still hasn't bene banned for life. Please, also, tell me that Pacman's been banned for life?
And to unilaterally ban someone for life from making a living for breaking the law is simply asking to be sued, which they will be if they impose a lifetime ban on Vick.
They CAN make a living outside of the NFL, period.
Using your logic, PacMan hasn't been convicted of anything and the only rule he technically "broke" was a general, broad stroked personal conduct clause, which is used on the Commissioner's descretion. But he's cannot play in the NFL and as you put it, "making a living". He's out for the season without pay, zero, ziltch, nothing. That's $1.3MM plus incentives out of his wallet. Where are the lawsuits?
The precedent has been set and Vick WILL be made an example of. He can always try to apply for reinstatement but the NFL will hold it's ground.
Ruff.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Whatever? Those are wildly different terms, they are not the same.
<< <i>They CAN make a living outside of the NFL, period. >>
So by your logic, that would be like every employer who is involved in your line of work getting together and prohibiting you from ever getting a job if you were to be arrested. I'm sure you'd be upset and sue them if you were to be barred from getting a job for breaking a law completely unrelated to your job.
<< <i>Using your logic, PacMan hasn't been convicted of anything and the only rule he technically "broke" was a general, broad stroked personal conduct clause, which is used on the Commissioner's descretion. But he's cannot play in the NFL and as you put it, "making a living". He's out for the season without pay, zero, ziltch, nothing. That's $1.3MM plus incentives out of his wallet. Where are the lawsuits? >>
He's not banned for life, and will have a job again in 2008. HUGE difference between a one year suspension and a lifetime ban, which you are calling for in the case of Vick (which, by the way, will NOT happen).
<< <i>The precedent has been set and Vick WILL be made an example of. He can always try to apply for reinstatement but the NFL will hold it's ground. >>
And when they do, expect a nice fat lawsuit from Vick's high paid lawyers who will seek to break the NFL's increasing power-hungry commissioner. The same commissioner who tried to keep a suspended player from appearing in a wrestling pay per view event (in which they failed, as he was a part of it).
Look, hate Vick all you want, but to expect the league to kill his livelihood and means to earn a living shows just how petty you truly are.
I'm petty because Vick deserves a harsh punishment?
Go read the indictment and just try to comprehend what he did to those dogs.
He deserves to be locked up in a FEDERAL high-security gangster rape prison for what he did. He never, and I mean EVER, deserves to place his foot on another football field for the rest of his life.
If that makes me petty, so be it and I'm damn proud of it.
Edited to add: Here comes the line by line retort by a Vick apologist. Don't even bother because I won't read it.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>I'm petty because Vick deserves a harsh punishment? >>
If he's guilty he'll get his harsh punishment and go to jail. To deprive a man of his work, of work he's trained his whole life for is unjust.
<< <i>Go read the indictment and just try to comprehend what he did to those dogs. >>
No one is questioning the charges are terrible. What you're failing to grasp is banning someone from his work for life is excessive.
<< <i>He deserves to be locked up in a FEDERAL high-security gangster rape prison for what he did. He never, and I mean EVER, deserves to place his foot on another football field for the rest of his life. >>
Just who died and made you god? Let the court system do its thing, let him serve his time, and if teams want to sign him when he gets out, let them make that decision. To sit in judgment as you do just makes you look ridiculous.
<< <i>I'm petty because Vick deserves a harsh punishment? >>
If he's guilty he'll get his harsh punishment and go to jail. To deprive a man of his work, of work he's trained his whole life for is unjust.
<< <i>Go read the indictment and just try to comprehend what he did to those dogs. >>
No one is questioning the charges are terrible. What you're failing to grasp is banning someone from his work for life is excessive.
<< <i>He deserves to be locked up in a FEDERAL high-security gangster rape prison for what he did. He never, and I mean EVER, deserves to place his foot on another football field for the rest of his life. >>
Just who died and made you god? Let the court system do its thing, let him serve his time, and if teams want to sign him when he gets out, let them make that decision. To sit in judgment as you do just makes you look ridiculous. >>
Did I call it or what??!?
<< <i>Edited to add: Here comes the line by line retort by a Vick apologist. Don't even bother because I won't read it. >>
And no, I didn't read one word
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
This whole Vick thing is pretty easy to understand. Vick is facing very serious charges which will result in possible jail time, as it is this season its highly unlikely he will play, after this legal mess gets cleared up he will then face a punishment from the NFL so this very well could impact his 2008 season, dont be suprised if this whole scenario ruins the rest of his career. Is it not a stretch to say he could face up to a couple years in jail?
I fail to see how Vick can sue the NFL for getting a huge suspension out of this, banned for life prolly not but there are ways they can levy punishment on him that can ruin his career.
Maybe if he comes clean, serves his time, and repents his disgusting actions, the NFL will only suspend him a couple of years.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
While I am no fan of Vick, I dont see any way the NFL gives him more than a one year suspension. It's really the first crime he has been involved in, unlike pacman/henry who each have long list of violations so I dont see them coming down any harder on him.
Animal cruelty (including but not limited to drownings, electrocution, and slamming their barely alive bodies to the ground) and gambling.
Leave him in a pit with abused, starving dogs for a couple of hours. If he survives, then he can come back to the NFL.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>how can AssSmell defend Mike Dick ? here is a shiny nickel. get a friggin clue. >>
You guys continue to miss the point. I am not defending Vick, I am defending his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession, and not just his, but for those that come after him.
Let's see, off the top of my head, you have the CFL and the Arena League. Both are professional football leagues (ie athletes get paid to play).
With at least those two options, how again would that affect "his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession"?
Oh, that's right, it doesn't.
Edited to add: Now he's going to spin it into something else.. Go ahead, Tinkerbell, spin away
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Axtell/stitzen's confidence in Vick returning to NFL overlooks a very important fact.
Besides the fact that Vick is facing the animal cruelty charges, there are other federal charges that include interstate gambling.
There are bylaws in the NFL that prohibit gambling (any gambling--not just on football). Since Vick may be convicted of these federal charges that include interstate gambling--he can be banned for life by the NFL.
Look up Art Schlichter--banned for life from NFL in 1983 for gambling.
I say Vick has little chance of returning to NFL unless his plea bargain includes a dismissal of gambling charges and less than a year in prison. Even then, the NFL may take action to keep him away.
I collect Vintage Cards, Commemorative Sets, and way too many vintage and modern player collections in Baseball (180 players), Football (175 players), and Basketball (87 players). Also have a Dallas Cowboy team collection.
<< <i>Axtell/stitzen's confidence in Vick returning to NFL overlooks a very important fact.
Besides the fact that Vick is facing the animal cruelty charges, there are other federal charges that include interstate gambling.
There are bylaws in the NFL that prohibit gambling (any gambling--not just on football). Since Vick may be convicted of these federal charges that include interstate gambling--he can be banned for life by the NFL.
Look up Art Schlichter--banned for life from NFL in 1983 for gambling.
I say Vick has little chance of returning to NFL unless his plea bargain includes a dismissal of gambling charges and less than a year in prison. Even then, the NFL may take action to keep him away. >>
if it comes to banning him from the league, I'd imagine someone will play the race card on Vick's behalf...as has already been started about the dog-fighting "allegations"
And on a somewhat related note, Jose Offerman has been suspended INDEFINITELY . In other words, he's banned until the league decides to let him back in.
But.. But.. But.. What about his livelyhood? What about "his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession"?
I mean, it's not like he killed something like dog or 50 of them.
Edited to add: The two posters above me must be racist too.
Welcome to the club
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>how can AssSmell defend Mike Dick ? here is a shiny nickel. get a friggin clue. >>
You guys continue to miss the point. I am not defending Vick, I am defending his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession, and not just his, but for those that come after him. >>
so in other words, you're defending michael vick and all animal cruelty advocates in the future..
you're brilliant..
just kidding, you're actually probably one of the most ignorant and narrow-minded people i've ever heard of..
<< <i>Edited to add: The two posters above me must be racist too. >>
especially Barndog..
hi Barndog >>
I totally forgot
+1 for the self racist
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
just said on sportcenter tonight that he can plea and go to prison, or go to trail and have the other 3 unnamed falcons who are going to save themselves on the stand against him,either way,pretty likley hes movin on up to the big house-pretty sad making all that $ and get caught doiing something stupid like that,
His problem is that the NFL will not show their hand, so Vick doesn't know what the concequences will be with an admission of guilt.
I'm proud of Roger Goodell for standing his ground
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>“We’re going to do what we always said we were going to do, which is rely on the facts,” Goodell said. “If there is some type of a plea agreement, then we will obviously take the time to understand what that plea is and we’ll see how it fits into our personal conduct (policy).”...
Under NFL policy, a player can be banned for life for gambling or associating with gambling and Vick might face that penalty. >>
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>“We’re going to do what we always said we were going to do, which is rely on the facts,” Goodell said. “If there is some type of a plea agreement, then we will obviously take the time to understand what that plea is and we’ll see how it fits into our personal conduct (policy).”...
Under NFL policy, a player can be banned for life for gambling or associating with gambling and Vick might face that penalty. >>
>>
WOW. It's not that hard to understand now right? Well I quess we will see...
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
<< <i>: insert witty comment about Vick and bending over for soap here >>
I tried to use a witty comment before and a few people got MIGHTY offended! I will just laugh instead.
<< <i>Taylor, who will be sentenced Dec. 14, said he was not promised any specific sentence in return for his cooperation with the government. >>
I find this humorous as well..
In other words, they want the top dog and ring leader of the operation, no pun intended
Signed #7 Atlanta Falcons Michael Vick signed 2004 NFC Championship Football : $500
(Again, largest Christmas gift from wife!)
200 eTopps 2001 Michael Vick Rookie cards bought in 2005: $25.00 each or $5,000.00
Receiving this picture from my brother-in-law who knows I collect Michael Vick: Priceless!
TGF Collection
TGF Sports
gets the job done, but a little rough.
(what a looser)
Link
Goes to show when the Federal Grand Jury has an indictment, 99 out of 100 times, the accused is going down one way or another.
Just goes to show in the NFL everyone gets a second chance.
Maybe the CFL or Arena League will pick him up..
Who knows, maybe he'll pull a PacMan and join wrestling.
<< <i>Other NFL teams won't be able to sign him if/when he's banned from the NFL. >>
Who's to say he'll be banned from the NFL? I highly doubt the NFL has the legal means to prevent someone from making a living, and preventing any team from signing him. They attempt to ban him for life, the NFL will have the legal fight of its life on its hands.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
sigh.
<< <i>Reports are circulating that Vick may make a plea.
Link
Goes to show when the Federal Grand Jury has an indictment, 99 out of 100 times, the accused is going down one way or another. >>
Remember OJ?
<< <i>
<< <i>Reports are circulating that Vick may make a plea.
Link
Goes to show when the Federal Grand Jury has an indictment, 99 out of 100 times, the accused is going down one way or another. >>
Remember OJ? >>
I'm pretty sure that was State, not Federal. Big difference.
<< <i>Who's to say he'll be banned from the NFL? I highly doubt the NFL has the legal means to prevent someone from making a living, and preventing any team from signing him. They attempt to ban him for life, the NFL will have the legal fight of its life on its hands. >>
The NFL can ban anyone they want for violating their rules because it's their league. Just go ask Ricky Williams and PacMan.. There are other ways to make a living and playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right.
<< <i>
The NFL can ban anyone they want for violating their rules because it's their league. Just go ask Ricky Williams and PacMan.. There are other ways to make a living and playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. >>
The NFL has a substance abuse policy in place which Ricky violated several times, and he still hasn't bene banned for life. Please, also, tell me that Pacman's been banned for life?
And to unilaterally ban someone for life from making a living for breaking the law is simply asking to be sued, which they will be if they impose a lifetime ban on Vick.
They CAN make a living outside of the NFL, period.
Using your logic, PacMan hasn't been convicted of anything and the only rule he technically "broke" was a general, broad stroked personal conduct clause, which is used on the Commissioner's descretion. But he's cannot play in the NFL and as you put it, "making a living". He's out for the season without pay, zero, ziltch, nothing. That's $1.3MM plus incentives out of his wallet. Where are the lawsuits?
The precedent has been set and Vick WILL be made an example of. He can always try to apply for reinstatement but the NFL will hold it's ground.
Ruff.
<< <i>Suspended, banned, whatever. >>
Whatever? Those are wildly different terms, they are not the same.
<< <i>They CAN make a living outside of the NFL, period. >>
So by your logic, that would be like every employer who is involved in your line of work getting together and prohibiting you from ever getting a job if you were to be arrested. I'm sure you'd be upset and sue them if you were to be barred from getting a job for breaking a law completely unrelated to your job.
<< <i>Using your logic, PacMan hasn't been convicted of anything and the only rule he technically "broke" was a general, broad stroked personal conduct clause, which is used on the Commissioner's descretion. But he's cannot play in the NFL and as you put it, "making a living". He's out for the season without pay, zero, ziltch, nothing. That's $1.3MM plus incentives out of his wallet. Where are the lawsuits? >>
He's not banned for life, and will have a job again in 2008. HUGE difference between a one year suspension and a lifetime ban, which you are calling for in the case of Vick (which, by the way, will NOT happen).
<< <i>The precedent has been set and Vick WILL be made an example of. He can always try to apply for reinstatement but the NFL will hold it's ground. >>
And when they do, expect a nice fat lawsuit from Vick's high paid lawyers who will seek to break the NFL's increasing power-hungry commissioner. The same commissioner who tried to keep a suspended player from appearing in a wrestling pay per view event (in which they failed, as he was a part of it).
Look, hate Vick all you want, but to expect the league to kill his livelihood and means to earn a living shows just how petty you truly are.
Go read the indictment and just try to comprehend what he did to those dogs.
He deserves to be locked up in a FEDERAL high-security gangster rape prison for what he did. He never, and I mean EVER, deserves to place his foot on another football field for the rest of his life.
If that makes me petty, so be it and I'm damn proud of it.
Edited to add: Here comes the line by line retort by a Vick apologist. Don't even bother because I won't read it.
<< <i>I'm petty because Vick deserves a harsh punishment? >>
If he's guilty he'll get his harsh punishment and go to jail. To deprive a man of his work, of work he's trained his whole life for is unjust.
<< <i>Go read the indictment and just try to comprehend what he did to those dogs. >>
No one is questioning the charges are terrible. What you're failing to grasp is banning someone from his work for life is excessive.
<< <i>He deserves to be locked up in a FEDERAL high-security gangster rape prison for what he did. He never, and I mean EVER, deserves to place his foot on another football field for the rest of his life. >>
Just who died and made you god? Let the court system do its thing, let him serve his time, and if teams want to sign him when he gets out, let them make that decision. To sit in judgment as you do just makes you look ridiculous.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm petty because Vick deserves a harsh punishment? >>
If he's guilty he'll get his harsh punishment and go to jail. To deprive a man of his work, of work he's trained his whole life for is unjust.
<< <i>Go read the indictment and just try to comprehend what he did to those dogs. >>
No one is questioning the charges are terrible. What you're failing to grasp is banning someone from his work for life is excessive.
<< <i>He deserves to be locked up in a FEDERAL high-security gangster rape prison for what he did. He never, and I mean EVER, deserves to place his foot on another football field for the rest of his life. >>
Just who died and made you god? Let the court system do its thing, let him serve his time, and if teams want to sign him when he gets out, let them make that decision. To sit in judgment as you do just makes you look ridiculous. >>
Did I call it or what??!?
<< <i>Edited to add: Here comes the line by line retort by a Vick apologist. Don't even bother because I won't read it. >>
And no, I didn't read one word
I fail to see how Vick can sue the NFL for getting a huge suspension out of this, banned for life prolly not but there are ways they can levy punishment on him that can ruin his career.
Link
Maybe if he comes clean, serves his time, and repents his disgusting actions, the NFL will only suspend him a couple of years.
Leave him in a pit with abused, starving dogs for a couple of hours. If he survives, then he can come back to the NFL.
here is a shiny nickel. get a friggin clue.
<< <i>how can AssSmell defend Mike Dick ?
here is a shiny nickel. get a friggin clue. >>
You guys continue to miss the point. I am not defending Vick, I am defending his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession, and not just his, but for those that come after him.
With at least those two options, how again would that affect "his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession"?
Oh, that's right, it doesn't.
Edited to add: Now he's going to spin it into something else.. Go ahead, Tinkerbell, spin away
<< <i>Let's see, off the top of my head, you have the CFL and the Arena League. Both are professional football leagues (ie athletes get paid to play).
With at least those two options, how again would that limit "his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession"?
Oh, that's right, it doesn't. >>
Please, that's like comparing the minor leagues to MLB in terms of pay. Get real.
Besides the fact that Vick is facing the animal cruelty charges, there are other federal charges that include interstate gambling.
There are bylaws in the NFL that prohibit gambling (any gambling--not just on football). Since Vick may be convicted of these federal charges that include interstate gambling--he can be banned for life by the NFL.
Look up Art Schlichter--banned for life from NFL in 1983 for gambling.
I say Vick has little chance of returning to NFL unless his plea bargain includes a dismissal of gambling charges and less than a year in prison. Even then, the NFL may take action to keep him away.
<< <i>Axtell/stitzen's confidence in Vick returning to NFL overlooks a very important fact.
Besides the fact that Vick is facing the animal cruelty charges, there are other federal charges that include interstate gambling.
There are bylaws in the NFL that prohibit gambling (any gambling--not just on football). Since Vick may be convicted of these federal charges that include interstate gambling--he can be banned for life by the NFL.
Look up Art Schlichter--banned for life from NFL in 1983 for gambling.
I say Vick has little chance of returning to NFL unless his plea bargain includes a dismissal of gambling charges and less than a year in prison. Even then, the NFL may take action to keep him away. >>
if it comes to banning him from the league, I'd imagine someone will play the race card on Vick's behalf...as has already been started about the dog-fighting "allegations"
Link
But.. But.. But.. What about his livelyhood? What about "his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession"?
I mean, it's not like he killed something like dog or 50 of them.
Edited to add: The two posters above me must be racist too.
Welcome to the club
<< <i>
<< <i>how can AssSmell defend Mike Dick ?
here is a shiny nickel. get a friggin clue. >>
You guys continue to miss the point. I am not defending Vick, I am defending his ability to earn a living in his chosen profession, and not just his, but for those that come after him. >>
so in other words, you're defending michael vick and all animal cruelty advocates in the future..
you're brilliant..
just kidding, you're actually probably one of the most ignorant and narrow-minded people i've ever heard of..
<< <i>Edited to add: The two posters above me must be racist too. >>
especially Barndog..
hi Barndog
<< <i>
<< <i>Edited to add: The two posters above me must be racist too. >>
especially Barndog..
hi Barndog
I totally forgot
+1 for the self racist
Link
His problem is that the NFL will not show their hand, so Vick doesn't know what the concequences will be with an admission of guilt.
I'm proud of Roger Goodell for standing his ground
<< <i>“We’re going to do what we always said we were going to do, which is rely on the facts,” Goodell said. “If there is some type of a plea agreement, then we will obviously take the time to understand what that plea is and we’ll see how it fits into our personal conduct (policy).”...
Under NFL policy, a player can be banned for life for gambling or associating with gambling and Vick might face that penalty. >>
<< <i>A great article here - > Link
<< <i>“We’re going to do what we always said we were going to do, which is rely on the facts,” Goodell said. “If there is some type of a plea agreement, then we will obviously take the time to understand what that plea is and we’ll see how it fits into our personal conduct (policy).”...
Under NFL policy, a player can be banned for life for gambling or associating with gambling and Vick might face that penalty. >>
>>
WOW. It's not that hard to understand now right? Well I quess we will see...
Link
<< <i>Vick indicted on State charges.
Link >>
Ho-Hum just a few more things for Vick to deal with before he can make money at his chosen proffesion.