For the legal tender gurus-- when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill?

Longacre

Hopefully someone knows the answer to this question. Yesterday I took the train into Manhattan for a meeting. I parked at the train station in a parking garage like I normally do. When I went to pay the cashier the $16, I paid with a $10, a $5, and a $1 bill. The cashier looked at the dollar bill, and promptly handed it back to me, and informed me that she was rejecting it.

Quite shocked, I asked why. She claimed it was "defective", and "her customers are very demanding, and they would not want to get a dollar bill like this back in change." Then she turned the tables on me, and said, "would you accept a dollar bill that looked like this?"

I am looking at the dollar bill as we speak. On the bottom left corner, there is a little piece missing of the dollar bill. The tear is so insignificant that you can still see the entire "1", including most of the left and circle design around the 1. Because I was tired and weary from my trip (it had to be 110 degrees in Manhattan yesterday), I just took the dollar back and gave her another one.

I thought the rule was that as long as more than 50% of a bill is still present, it is fine and can be used (or at least changed at a bank for a full bill). Has anyone encountered this type of reaction when you might have tried to pass off a "defective" bill?

dan8402

I don't know the laws behind it, but I find what happened to you ridiculous. Do they expect that people get new $1s from the bank just to spend there?

jhusman

pay with all dollar coins from now on.

FLBuffaloHunter

The dollar bill says 'This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private' so I imagine she cannot legally refuse it.

fastrudy

That's totally crazy, even for Manhattan! Out the parking garage, Longacre. However, legally I think they can accept/ reject any currency. I heard that Texas businesses are accepting peso for payments.

Elcontador

This sort of thing has happened for many years in Third World countries where nasty-looking (or less than pristine) local currency would not be accepted. The worst place I've been for this is Peru. Locals would try to stick foreigners with such bills. Your only recourse is going to a bank and waiting in a long line to get it honored.

Never heard of this in the U.S., though.

jmski52

I don't know how enforceable the 50% principal is on the street, but if the bill says, "legal tender for all debts public and private," that should be it, rip or not. On the other hand, this may be one of those times that your only other choice is to take the matter up the chain of command all the way to the transportation director, or some such nominal authority.

gamr0n

You are a lawyer, sue her.

Russ

<< <i>when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill? >>



Any time they feel like it. There is no law on the books requiring a merchant to accept US currency or coins as payment.

Russ, NCNE

FLBuffaloHunter

<< <i>

<< <i>when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill? >>



Any time they feel like it. There is no law on the books requiring a merchant to accept US currency or coins as payment.

Russ, NCNE >>


If the merchant is telling you your purchase is $16 what are they expecting, banana chips?

Geoman

Any time they feel like it. There is no law on the books requiring a merchant to accept US currency or coins as payment

Gotta agree with Russ on this one. They are a "business" and they can refuse service or payment. The saying about legal tender for all debts and services, etc. doesn't apply here, as you hadn't received their service yet (ie: train ride) and they can refuse you service or your payment for that service being a business.

fcloud

I wonder if she would have taken it if you didn't have any more cash? Maybe she would have turned you into the police for not having enough good money to pay your parking...

Russ

<< <i><< when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill? >>

Any time they feel like it. There is no law on the books requiring a merchant to accept US currency or coins as payment.

Russ, NCNE >>

If the merchant is telling you your purchase is $16 what are they expecting, banana chips? >>



The question was not what other form of payment might be tendered. The question was is a merchant legally required to accept it. The answer is no.

Russ, NCNE

mrpotatoheadd

From here...

There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.

Russ

<< <i>The saying about legal tender for all debts and services, etc. doesn't apply here, as you hadn't received their service yet (ie: train ride) and they can refuse you service or your payment for that service being a business. >>



It doesn't apply even if the service or product had already been received. The statement simply means that it is legal to tender the currency to pay a debt. It does not imply that there is a legal requirement to accept it.

Russ, NCNE

StrikeOutXXX

I would guess the law is similar to the one for coins - ust as a store can say they don' t accept cents, they can deny dollar bills (ok not exactly apple to apples, but you get the idea). Some old thread, I think by Conder101 explained the rules of coins being only mandatory for government payments or something - have to go search.

I had a bill that was taped and missing an entire corner when I made a deposit a few months back and I asked the bank teller if it's still good. She said as long as it has both serial numbers and is identifiable, they take them. Not sure if that is law or just her opinion though.

slipgate

You're talking about some idiot taking parking garage payments. You did the only thing you could do, replace it. Your only other recourse would have been to ask to see the manager, who probably would have taken it but would have cost you your time and patience.

I learned long ago that dealing with idiots is a waste of my time, just smile and move on.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>You're talking about some idiot taking parking garage payments. >>

Quite possibly, that "idiot" had been instructed in the past to reject such bills. There's no telling what sort of rules some idiot managers will dream up.

scrapbuyer

As a merchant, you can refuse any bill. I believe 75 % of the note has to be present for exhange with the fed. As a merchant you are "required" to confiscate a counterfeit or suspect bill and notify the police or secret service. I have handled millions in currency over the years and until last week I had never received any good counterfiet bills. I have a $100 supernote now, and I bought a UV scanner the next day. It should arrive next week.

mrpotatoheadd

United States Treasury Bureau of Engraving and Printing

Under regulations issued by the Department of the Treasury, mutilated United States currency may be exchanged at face value if:

more than 50% of a note identifiable as United States currency is present; or,
50% or less of a note identifiable as United States currency is present, and the method of mutilation and supporting evidence demonstrates to the satisfaction of the Treasury that the missing portions have been totally destroyed.

aballein

id like to see that supernote...ive heard of them but never seen one in person

Russ

<< <i>id like to see that supernote...ive heard of them but never seen one in person >>



So would I. The only counterfeit attempt I've ever encountered was a five, and it was a lame scanner/copier job.

Russ, NCNE

scrapbuyer

I'm at work now, so I can't photo it. Maybe I'll get a chance someday and do it. It has the watermarks and the fake strip and all the microprinting is there, but not as sharp as a real bill. The paper is off, it didn't get through my hand without red flags, one of my employees took it. The "counterfeit pen" is no good for detecting theses ones either.

FLBuffaloHunter

Here is a Google image. the supernote is the lower bill.

Barry

<< <i>You are a lawyer, sue her. >>


It's funny when Longacre asks US legal questions. Kinda like RYK posting a pic of an xray and asking for opinions...

Getting back to the question, a merchant is free to accept or reject any form of payment as they wish (unless there's a contract, like a credit card merchant agreement.) It's just like some stores unwilling to accept bills over $20.

scrapbuyer

I'm new here, by the way. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a little east if pittsburgh, PA. I own and operate a tobacco/cigar/lottery outlet. I dabble in coins and bullion. I am here to learn about coins. I am very knowledgeble in silver and gold bullion and scrap gold. The counterfeit $100 was a surprise to me also, I have seen a few "bad" attempts at counterfeits, but this is the first "real counterfeit"... Hopefully the UV scanner will make it the only one I get stung for.

rgl1345

Drama Queen

ilikebuffaloes

<< <i>I'm new here, by the way. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a little east if pittsburgh, PA. I own and operate a tobacco/cigar/lottery outlet. I dabble in coins and bullion. I am here to learn about coins. I am very knowledgeble in silver and gold bullion and scrap gold. The counterfeit $100 was a surprise to me also, I have seen a few "bad" attempts at counterfeits, but this is the first "real counterfeit"... Hopefully the UV scanner will make it the only one I get stung for. >>

Artist

I was once in a parking garage where the car in front of me refused to accept a Sacagawea dollar as change. This igorant girl shouted for a good five minutes at the cashier before hurling the coins at her - she eventually got what she wanted when the chorus of horns behind me reached an intollerable pitch.

notlogical

Boy, you guys are smart.

fastrudy

you are smart,
we may be smart,
or we may be wise.
Wisdom comes with age.

sumnom

Bills must have both serial numbers to continue "functioning."

TAClough

<< <i><< The saying about legal tender for all debts and services, etc. doesn't apply here, as you hadn't received their service yet (ie: train ride) and they can refuse you service or your payment for that service being a business. >>



It doesn't apply even if the service or product had already been received. The statement simply means that it is legal to tender the currency to pay a debt. It does not imply that there is a legal requirement to accept it.

Russ, NCNE >>



Yes, but if the parking lot is marked "$16 for upto five hours parking" and you make a good faith efford to pay the $16 - drive off it is there loss. As long as you tried to pay and the attandant refused to take the money, no cop will charge you with theft of service.

TwoSides2aCoin

I think I would have just stood there looking at her until she took the money.
Silence is Golden in some situations.

rgl1345

<< <i>

<< <i><< The saying about legal tender for all debts and services, etc. doesn't apply here, as you hadn't received their service yet (ie: train ride) and they can refuse you service or your payment for that service being a business. >>



It doesn't apply even if the service or product had already been received. The statement simply means that it is legal to tender the currency to pay a debt. It does not imply that there is a legal requirement to accept it.

Russ, NCNE >>



Yes, but if the parking lot is marked "$16 for upto five hours parking" and you make a good faith efford to pay the $16 - drive off it is there loss. As long as you tried to pay and the attandant refused to take the money, no cop will charge you with theft of service. >>

rgl1345

[

LindeDad

Sounds like a good reason for the dollar coins, they don't rip.

LincolnCentMan

I know if all of both of the serial numbers are present it's still spendable. I'm not sure about the 50% rule. You probably did the right thing even though the clerk was in the wrong. If that would have happend to me and I were already in a bad mood, I might put the car in park, kill the engine, and explain that it was legal tender... you can take it or I can wait here for a couple of hours for you to accept legal payment. ...on the other hand, I might have just asked for the phone number of her boss, and called from the car.

-David

droopyd

<< <i>I learned long ago that dealing with idiots is a waste of my time, just smile and move on. >>



Here in NYC, you need to do a lot of smilin' and a lot of movin' on....

A lot.

Writersblock

<< <i>As long as you tried to pay and the attandant refused to take the money, no cop will charge you with theft of service. >>


Well I don't know, the cop might be ignorant and try to. But your right there would be no theft of service. On the other hand the debt still remains and you are still obligated to satisfy it. You just can't be charged interest, penalties etc for late payment because you did make a legal attempt to pay at the time payment was due.

droopyd

<< <i>Well I don't know, the cop might be ignorant and try to. >>



Ignorant cops in New York City? Say it ain't so!!!

FLBuffaloHunter

I read for the next $100 bill, the BEP plans to incorporate a hologram.

Man

Living and working in NYC my whole life the rule is that busniesses have the right to refuse any money they find suspect, but the must accept all money that is fine.

Those stores that refuse to take large bills are illegal, but the have just have to say they suspect every large bill and then it is legal.

Also any torn bill can be refused. This is because they may gets stuck in machines which is what that lady was trying to convey.

The reverse is also true if she tried to give you a slightly torn bill you can refuse it and demand a whole bill.


I've seen bums try to hand in these awful taped bills that is was obvious they are trying to scam a cashier.

fastrudy

They are not bums, they are occupationally challenged.

Coxe

I think it would be a bit different if you had already received such a service for which there was a posted fee of sixteen US dollars. The burden then would be on them in their challenge that you were not providing sixteen US dollars as requested as a contract for which their consideration was already tendered.

seateddime

A bank won't

rec78

when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill

Whenever they want to.


Change machines reject bills with even a little bit of the corner missing.

Living and working in NYC my whole life the rule is that busniesses have the right to refuse any money they find suspect, but the must accept all money that is fine.

This statement is not correct. There is no such rule.


Those stores that refuse to take large bills are illegal, but the have just have to say they suspect every large bill and then it is legal.Those stores that refuse to take large bills are illegal, but the have just have to say they suspect every large bill and then it is legal.

This statement is incorrect also. It is not illegal to refuse to take large bills. They don't have to say anything except that they will not take it. There is nothing illegal about refusing to take large bills, or any bills for that matter, anywhere in the USA. However if the merchant wants payment in something other than US bills then they SHOULD say so before purchases are made. However this is not an absolute requirement.

PerryHall

<< <i>when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill

Whenever they want to >>



.......go out of business.

AskRaq

<< <i>

<< <i>when can a merchant refuse to accept a dollar bill? >>



Any time they feel like it. There is no law on the books requiring a merchant to accept US currency or coins as payment.

Russ, NCNE >>




As I recall (dependant upon your local laws), if a business that accepts legal tender refuses to accept legal tender when proffered for a purchase, you may keep the "purchase".

Steve27

"Yes, but if the parking lot is marked "$16 for upto five hours parking" and you make a good faith efford to pay the $16 - drive off it is there loss. As long as you tried to pay and the attandant refused to take the money, no cop will charge you with theft of service."

Exactly right, if you tender payment and it's refused, you don't have to pay.

Writersblock

<< <i>Exactly right, if you tender payment and it's refused, you don't have to pay. >>


Not true. You have simply made a legal attempt to pay so you can't be charged interest or penalties for non-payment, but if you want the item, or have received a service for which a debt was incurred, you still have to make satisfactory payment to the merchant.



<< <i>Those stores that refuse to take large bills are illegal, >>


Is there some city statute that requires them to accept the bills? Because there is no Federal law that says they have to, and it probably would not be legal for the state to pass such a law. (Constitutional clause that forbids any state from making anything but gold or silver a legal tender. That doesn't apply to the Feds, and maybe not a local city. Not sure about that last part,))