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How BIG The Omaha Bank Hoard is, it's affect on Numismatics AND WHO owns it!

Has any One entity had such a huge impact on virtually EVERY 20th Century US Type, spanning the usage of literally every 3rd Party Grading Service?

Personally, it is JMHO that it has greatly diminished the net worth of many Collectors' holdings.

While undoubtedly proving to be good for Grading Services' Bottom Lines, it has conversely proven to be responsible for population explosions spanning many series and COULD well prove to be the ONE entity that has crippled so many!

Has NO Numismatic Historian or researcher even begun to keep tabs on this ... "thing"?

Just how BIG is this so-called "Hoard" and who is the owner/ submitter? Bulk submissions usualy start with the #7. Why don't the coins of this very large sumission, spanning many grading services, commence with a bulk submission #?



Your thoughts?
«1

Comments

  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's been pretty good to me, Boom......I didn't have most of the coins that the hoard contained so, the depressing of the prices on those issues that the hoard has helped with, has been appreciated by me image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    Well, Boch, personally I am genuinely glad for you. You MUST be the exception. image
  • CoinHuskerCoinHusker Posts: 5,100 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    Just how BIG is this so-called "Hoard"?

    Your thoughts? >>




    Back on'05 I contacted Heritage about this "hoard" and this is what I found out.

    A client in Omaha, who has been guaranteed anonymity, sold Heritage 2000+ gem original rolls of Washington quarters, Roosevelt Dimes, Franklin Halves, and Walking Liberty halves, etc..

    All the rolls were originally purchased at the Omaha National Bank, and had been stored in a vault since the individual started buying rolls during the year of issue back in the late 1930's.
    Collecting coins, medals and currency featuring "The Sower"
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    Another thing I've noticed as it pertains to the series I collect:

    For a series that supposedly is graded VERY tightly, SOMEONE sure has been "making" a lot of PCGS 68s rather quietly as of late.

    Seems a FEW things are going on!image
  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    It can definitely be looked at both ways. One can say that it depressed prices and hurt the maket for 20th high grade piecs. One can also say that it made many of these 20th pieces affordable for average collectors again.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,728 ✭✭✭✭
    The pile of Jefferson nickels that came out of that hoard appears to have been staggering as well. I know I took a value hit on several tough coins I already had.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    << A client in Omaha, who has been guaranteed anonymity, sold Heritage 2000+ gem original rolls of Washington quarters, Roosevelt Dimes, Franklin Halves, and Walking Liberty halves, etc..

    All the rolls were originally purchased at the Omaha National Bank, and had been stored in a vault since the individual started buying rolls during the year of issue back in the late 1930's. >>


    Agreed, except for the last part. Recently I have seen very early Washington Quarters in slabs. Not sure about 1932 but for sure, 1934.

    The MORE I look at this response .... the MORE everything NOW makes Perfect Sense! LOOK AT IT! WHO was the Buyer?image
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    << The pile of Jefferson nickels that came out of that hoard appears to have been staggering as well. I know I took a value hit on several tough coins I already had. >>

    Again, I concur as I am always studying the Population Reports. Just 2 years ago I was selling PCGS 64 1932-D Washington Quarters for in excess of $9000. Look at the prices today!

    Someone's foresight has proven to be good for business and undoubtedly, their descendants but it has surely put the BIG HURT on the rest of us. image
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    Hard to imagine!
    A roll of 32-D Washingtons in nice grades would be worth what, about half a million $ or so? image
    Ed
  • I started working on my birth year set (1956) after the hoard was released. I don't think the pops of Full Step 1956 nickels changed much - I haven't checked the numbers, I'm just guessing by the currently low numbers.

    Considering I started my set after the hoard was released it helped me a bit because more high grade coins were available.

    Is there a date/denomination combo more valuable than the '32 quarters?
  • MarkMark Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When I look at many of the Omaha Hoard coins, they seem to be rather generously graded. Is that just my opinion or do others share it also?
    Mark


  • docgdocg Posts: 530
    Based on the Washington quarters I own and have seen pictures of in various auctions, I think the "Omaha Bank Hoard" Washies are mostly VERY generously graded.
  • MarkMark Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    docq:

    Thanks for the input. I casually look at Lincoln cents every now and then and it was the Omaha Bank cents that I thought seemed graded most kindly. It's interesting that the same is true for quarters...
    Mark


  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 42,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From a seller's standpoint, it hurts overall prices because of the supply/demand chain being thrown out of balance... but, from a buyer's standpoint, it's a gift !
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,728 ✭✭✭✭
    The Jeffersons I've seen have generally struck me as unremarkable for their grades. I suspect that if I were to crack out and re-send in a bunch of the 67s, I could get 'em to come back 66s.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • I think that the Omaha Bank Hoard pedigree is the most over-rated one I have seen. Personally, in my series (Lincoln Cents), I shy away from those coins like the plague. Virtually everyone that I've looked at is either low-end for the grade or generously graded IMHO.

    image
    imageimage
    Collector of Early 20th Century U.S. Coinage.
    ANA Member R-3147111
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,966 ✭✭
    <<It's been pretty good to me, Boom......I didn't have most of the coins that the hoard contained so, the depressing of the prices on those issues that the hoard has helped with, has been appreciated by me image>>

    <<Well, Boch, personally I am genuinely glad for you. You MUST be the exception. image>>


    Boch ins't the only one, I did quite well picking up high grade OBH walking liberty halfs when they first started hitting the market!
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    Take a GOOD LOOK at that response from a member who got it right from the Horse's mouth.

    << Back on'05 I contacted Heritage about this "hoard" and this is what I found out.

    A client in Omaha, who has been guaranteed anonymity, sold Heritage 2000+ gem original rolls of Washington quarters, Roosevelt Dimes, Franklin Halves, and Walking Liberty halves, etc..

    All the rolls were originally purchased at the Omaha National Bank, and had been stored in a vault since the individual started buying rolls during the year of issue back in the late 1930's. >>


    SO, The Omaha Bank Hoard submitter/Owner IS Heritage? This would explain a LOT of things.image

    If this is true, Suddenly the big picture gets a whole lot clearer.
  • droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,412


    << <i>I think that the Omaha Bank Hoard pedigree is the most over-rated one I have seen. Personally, in my series (Lincoln Cents), I shy away from those coins like the plague. Virtually everyone that I've looked at is either low-end for the grade or generously graded IMHO. >>



    Don't forget overpriced by at least $10.

    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    50 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
  • TomBTomB Posts: 17,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My personal experience in examining a small number of these coins from the Washington quarter series is that they have more often received favorable grades than I would have expected based upon the current and historical grading standards of PCGS.

    In a way, this hoard is similar to the giant release of MS Morgan dollars by the government in the 1960s except that most coins in the current hoard were readily available in very high MS grades even prior to the marketing of the hoard.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • I saw a big group of late 30's Buffalo's from the hoard in PCGS plastic.

    I was shocked at how over graded they were. I have been avoiding anything with the label ever since.

    I am surprised to hear how many others have seen the same thing.....in other series.
    (PAST) OWNER #1 SBA$ REGISTRY COLLECTOIN
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 42,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Supply and Demand.
    Creative Marketing
    Price Adjustments
    Subjective Grading
    Pedigree

    MONEY


    Nothing more to see.... move along !
    image unless, you have pictures to post image
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I came across a 32' quarter on e-bay graded MS 64 by PCGS, it looked more like a 62/63 to me with the OBH label on it.
  • cupronikcupronik Posts: 773 ✭✭✭
    The concensus that the Omaha Bank Hoard coins tend to be overgraded is unfortunate in that the true rarity
    of accurately graded high-grade singles (especially tough date full step Jefferson Nickels) becomes less
    appreciated due to the increased and diluted PCGS populations the OBH creates.
  • Two things are for sure about this hoard:

    1) overgrading is rampant

    2) they have had an extremely dramatic effect on prices for the affected series

    A couple years ago, an PCGS MS65 1952 Jeff was a $50 coin. Now it's $10. There are hundreds of similar examples.
    "Wars are really ugly! They're dirty
    and they're cold.
    I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
    Mary






    Best Franklin Website
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A $40 dollar drop on a Jeff nickel ??? OUCH !!!
  • LincolnCentManLincolnCentMan Posts: 5,343 ✭✭✭✭
    It's not big enough to have a significant impact on the overall market. What percent of PCGS holders have "Omaha Bank Hoard" on them? I bet it's well below one percent.

    -David
  • CocoinutCocoinut Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭✭
    Have all of the coins been dispersed, or is the owner (Heritage) holding on to some of them for future submission?

    Jim
    Countdown to completion of my Mercury Set: 2 coins. My growing Lincoln Set: Finally completed!
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,143 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Have all of the coins been dispersed, or is the owner (Heritage) holding on to some of them for future submission?

    Jim >>



    Now, THAT is a great question!

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • DoogyDoogy Posts: 4,573


    << <i>Have all of the coins been dispersed, or is the owner (Heritage) holding on to some of them for future submission?

    Jim >>



    i would say the latter is probably true, the ole' Debeers strategy

  • the minute i see "omaha bank hoard" on a jeff slab, i pass it by. judging by many photos on heritage's website, and just as many on e-bay, this "pedigree" is something to be ashamed of by pcgs.
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    Not a significant impact? 2 years ago I was selling White PCGS 64 1932-D to private collectors for $8000- $9000 and they LOVED it as evidenced by the comments left in their sets. Look around today. See the pop of 32-D PCGS 64 alone!

    Anaconda has a PQ piece that he cannot even get a best offer on at $5000. That's NOT significant? image 2 years ago that piece would have long since disappeared!

    The sheer # of Registry Set Owners (very high ranking/ All Time Best" owners as well as other collectors) all bailing and jumping ship .... That's NOT significant?? With all due respect sir, where exactly has you head been lately?

    Have you not noticed these things? Have you never clicked on the link regarding precious metals furthest left on the Home Page and noticed the sheer drop? "Everything is just fine and we are still in a strong market" is what we have being told yet recently someone posted a thread regarding turnouts at shows all around this nation and all had the same air of stagnation and a slow, agonizing Death about them!

    Judging solely by what has been posted here, regarding grades of coins of the HOARD, all state that they are NOT graded by the same standards that ours are!

    If they are the present "standard", Common Sense then has it that all OUR coins merit regrade! This influx of coins of questionable grading has caused MANY collectors' holdings to greatly diminish in value. PERIOD!
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This should be a temporary effect. There simply can't have
    been enough coins in the hoard to have a significant impact
    on the long term supply of these coins. There might be some
    individual dates that are scarcer and grossly overrepresented
    in the hoard but not the average coin.

    There probably wasn't a clad roll in the bunch.

    If there were the coins would have been of very poor quality.

    This is kind of a shame really since what this market needs more
    than anything is probably more supply.
    Tempus fugit.
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    Agreed. What it needs is Quality and Consistancy.

    Remember those 3 words that used to be on PCGS holders, now on NGC holders?

    Numismatics NEEDS more Integrity, Knowledge and Resposnsibility.image
  • MarkMark Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cladking:

    I don't know about clad rolls, but the hoard did extend to at least 1965 because I purchased a 1965 cent. I liked the fact that this coin was guaranteed to be a business strike rather than a mislabeled SMS coin. Indeed, for that reason I'd probably be in the market for other Omaha Hoard coins from 1965 to 1967...assuming that they meet my requirements for a sight-seen (reference to another currently very popular set of threads! image ) purchase.
    Mark


  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well I have purchased a few of the roosevelt dimes. I had to search over 1700 of them at the Heritage site to come up with seven toned coins that look decent to me. Of the seven one was overgraded probably by two points and one had some tone that really is ugly. The other dimes were just fine and in fact one is a real screamer tone wise and luster wise. The rest of the 1700 dimes were of the white type and were of no interest to me.

    Another observation I have seen is a bunch of hype on Ebay about double dies and RPM's that are not designated on the slabs. A couple of sellers are really putting the shaft to some buyers that believe all of the hype. Truly it is a shame.

    As far as the Omaha coins effecting the toned roosevelt market I think there is very little effect from them. My guess is that roosevelts have fallen a little but not as drastically as some of the other series.

    In a couple of years everyone will forget about the Omaha coins and the market will be on a even keel again. Atleast with Roosevelts.

    Cheers.

    Ken
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,720
    One might well conclude that the services are killing themselves by granting the favor of generous grades to their largest submitters, who also happen to have ownership stakes in the grading companies. Much of the generic overgraded "product" - especially the high-grade overgraded dipped/conserved/white/modern stuff that gets dumped into the marketplace - comes through this route. Just remember that many lots in Heritage (and other auctions) are consigned by none other than the auction house itself, or its principals. The auctions can be a dumping ground for overgraded slabs !! As always, caveat emptor, buy the coin not the plastic, and LOOK at the coin before you buy it. If you can't look at the coin, have an independent dealer or professional look at it for you.

    It's nice work if you can get it:

    1) Buy a collection on the cheap;

    2) Get it graded by companies that you have an interest in and where you are THE heavyweight submitter;

    3) Sell the coins off in your own auctions and get 115% of hammer with no fees !!

    This happens in classic series too, but moderns are more vulnerable as there is still plenty of supply out there ...

    Best,
    Sunnywood
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 42,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well the one good thing, the mint didn't make anymore.
    So the crackout starts all over or ?

    Anyone who knows how to grade should buy these overgraded coins at depressed prices (since the market is flooded) and send them in for Grade review. Think of the potential profits not the losses.
    The more the merrier. It's the world series of grading image
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,720


    << <i>Well the one good thing, the mint didn't make anymore. >>



    Unfortunately, the notion of finite supply is one of the fallacies of collecting certified coins. The Mint may not be making any more coins, but the grading services are constantly churning out "newly made" high grade coins. Just watch the pops of any series over time ... the Malthusian population explosion is hard to ignore.

    Yes, I know that not all submissions represent unique coins, so for example a pop of 15 might actually represent only 8 or 9 actual examples. The false pops occur when crackheads resubmit coins that they have cracked out of holders, sometimes many times in a row - and then fail to turn in all the inserts. This happens all the time. However, the rising pops are NOT only due to resubmissions. They are also due to crackheads and doctors jockeying previously certified coins into higher-grade holders, often with a little dipping and other stuff in between. And yes, occasionally there really are fresh coins added to the pops, coins that have never been previously submitted and certified.

    At least the "Omaha" hoard represents fresh coins, not cracked and doctored resubmissions. But you modern folks should not be surprised - we have been warning for years that there are many rolls out there still waiting to be certified.

    Best,
    Sunnywood
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    At least the "Omaha" hoard represents fresh coins, not cracked and doctored resubmissions. But you modern folks should not be surprised - we have been warning for years that there are many rolls out there still waiting to be certified.

    Best,
    Sunnywood >>



    These coins are not modern.

    There is probably not any significant supply of moderns which isn't visible.

    Those who are collecting this stuff don't need salt in their wounds.
    Tempus fugit.
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,720
    "These coins are not modern."

    Why sure they are !! I guess what you call "modern," I might call "post-modern." image

    "There is probably not any significant supply of moderns which isn't visible."

    Sorry, I don't agree with that at all.

    Those who are collecting this stuff don't need salt in their wounds.

    Understood ... but when you're a collector there is always some salt that gets thrown on your wounds. Everything I sold in 2001-2002 exploded in value over the next few years. Every time I buy a pop 1 classic coin another one gets made thereafter, or perhaps two more. And so on .... yep, we all have wounds to lick. The only way around that is to completely disregard the value of your collection, and consider the money you spent on it to have been thrown out the window. Then you will never worry about such things. (However, I'm not suggesting this is possible to do; most of us at all financial levels of collecting commit enough resources to our coins that we HAVE to be concerned with their value.)

    For what it's worth, I was simultaneously thrilled and panicked when I first heard the rumors (later said to be completely false) that the Damon collection included original unopened bank rolls of every silver and minor issue from the San Francisco mint, ranging from the early 1890's to the 1920's. Can you imagine ???? The value - and the impact on the hobby - would have been very substantial. So now instead, you guys are getting it. Collectors of the Omaha-impacted issues do have my sympathies.

    Best,
    Sunnywood
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    "There is probably not any significant supply of moderns which isn't visible."

    Sorry, I don't agree with that at all.

    >>






    You say tomato, I say tomato. The simple fact is that there is probably
    no significant supply of 1965 to 1998 coins that isn't apparent. Hoards
    don't contain them because people generally didn't save them. There
    are no sunken ships with kegs of 1974 dimes and there aren't European
    banks sitting on vast quantities of Ikes. If you can't find a modern on the
    market it's because it was't saved or was made in small numbers.
    Tempus fugit.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 27,421 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> Collectors of the Omaha-impacted issues do have my sympathies.

    >>



    I agree but I suspect for the main part the worst of the effect will be quite temporary.
    Tempus fugit.
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    I did not start this thread to flame PCGS nor Heritage. What has come to light is both disheartening and appalling. I started it because I genuinely want to know MORE about this "Hoard" and have since learned from the numerous accounts herein, given by members spanning the broad spectrum of 20th Century coinage, that in NO WAY am I alone regarding what I have seen and what is going on.

    For a while I thought that I had totally lost my eye or that people were just taking horrendous pictures.

    I kept seeing PCGS graded 66s that look like NONE I have ever previously seen, owned or handled, coins that I would NOT have even considered sending in for grading, bearing this so-called Pedigree.

    To allow coins of obvious lesser quality to join the ranks of pristine, Pre Hoard, PCGS certified coins has caused many serious damage financially, from which we may never recover unless PCGS takes serious, pro-active measures to rectify the situation.

    I have seen coins, KEY COINS, that have absolutely NO business being in these holders because they are of such poor Quality. This has compromised the value of MY coins as well as many others as evidenced by the mass Exodus of collectors bailing out for whatever they can manage to get. If those are 66s then mine obviously must be higher graded. Example - the very hard to make PCGS 66 1961-D. I've seen HORRIBLE examples that I would not have even considered submitting in PCGS 66 holders displaying this so called Pedigree.

    By compromising it's standards and by lowering the Bar for whomever the Owner of this Hoard may be (Regardless of whomever it is) the Service has also done itself a great dis-service, compromising it's Integrity and has made those of us that believe in PCGS and the standards by which our coins are/ were graded, feel disheartened if not betrayed and in many cases, in financial ruin.

    Right NOW, I have a seriously PQ coin for sale at a loss on the BS&T Forum and NO ONE has shown interest in it. 2 years ago the coin would have been sold with minutes. I have sold PQ PCGS 64 1932-D for as high as $8000 plus the buyer's fee, at auction thru Heritage just 2 years ago. I have also supplied many of the All Time Greatest Registry Set Collectors with PCGS coins of very high caliber and everyone came away pleased. Now, I stand to lose BIG TIME as evidenced by these same PQ PCGS 64 1932-D NOT MOVING AT ALL for less than $5000.

    For one series to lay so dead because of the aforementioned is beyond description. People no longer want keys OR beautiful PCGS 67, low population pieces and I would like to know "Why"!

    Again, I do not seek to flame anyone yet I DO have a right as a paying Platinum Member that has paid tens of thousand of dollars obtaining my PCGS certified coins to some legitimate answers, as do many here.

    I write this with all due respect,

    BOOM

    image
  • pb2ypb2y Posts: 1,477
    The Omaha Bank Hoard looked suspicious from day one.
    "from original rolls--stored in a bank vault since the 1930s--
    purchased from original owner on promise of anonymity".

    Most of the coins seem to be very common and in low MS grade.
    Example--the 1939 Jefferson pedigree seems endless in number.
    But, has anyone seen a 1939 s rev 40 or a 1939 p rev 40 from the "hoard" ?
    Did bank workers hand pick the best coins? not likely.

    Did the hoard really exist? With the purchasers promise of anonymity
    only the silent "original owner" can tell the truth.

    image

  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,359
    In this case, thus far, I must say that I respect PCGS for NOT simply making this thread disappear. It IS of Numismatic Value for several various reasons.

    1- Who & What is "The Omaha Bank Hoard"?

    2- Just how BIG is The Omaha Bank Hoard?

    3- Discussion on the Omaha Bank Hoard's impact on Numismatics today?

    These are all genuinely valid points of Historical Value that merit discussion between collectors and those whom it has influenced, either in a positive or negative sense.

    With our President being a writer himself, certainly he can understand and appreciate the importance of this thread as well as the points it raises in a non-inflammatory fashion. People have all stated, thus far, what they personally have noticed about the coins involved from this Hoard.

    It IS NOT my intention to disrespect or to "flame" anyone but as many have noted, there seems to be an entirely different grading curve involved which greatly effects many a collector's holdings. Something has greatly impacted our Hobby and being this IS The US Coin Forum, this topic indeed does merit being here and discussed, not swept under the rug.

    Thank you for permitting us to express our observations, PCGS. image
  • The Omaha Hoard was purchased some time in 2004 and I remember talking to Heritage Folks back about this time about a buy that they thought would make collectors happy. Many of the years and mint marks have run their course including the 1941 and 1942 P. To date there are only 69 MS67 in 1941 after seeing the MS66 pop swell with at least 50 rolls or so graded. The pop jumped from the 20's to where it is today and I still think the MS67 coins are rare. Many rolls by the way dont have OBH on them since they were purchased and graded without the pedigree by private investors which includes the 1941 P that I am referring to. You can see a flood of the coins per announcement as the population jumped without the pedigree.

    60 D MS66 has been crushed and it looks like 61 will follow suit. All you have to do is follow the Ebay auctions. This is the washout that the market needs. I have found quite a few mint errors that I am looking for in the group also.

    I will buy as many cheap coins that I can get in this series. Be short term minded and keep selling like most are doing. In the end this series will shine again like a bright star.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,784 ✭✭✭
    god i love this stuff.

    cladking, you actually think that people who are still alive today,
    cannot own hordes of rolls made in their lifetime? it is not probable?

    you jest!

    why is everyone so shocked? did you not expect this to happen with grade
    inflation and moderns?

    i guess that is why i do not call something an antique until it is 100 years old.

    seeing the loss of value on your collections is quite nice to hear from the
    perspective of a new buyer wishing to get in! exciting news.

    salt, wound, grind.
  • notlogicalnotlogical Posts: 2,254
    I live in Omaha and nobody here except my Dad and me know anything about them image
    What Mr. Spock would say about numismatics...
    image... "Fascinating, but not logical"

    "Live long and prosper"

    My "How I Started" columns
  • SunnywoodSunnywood Posts: 2,720
    Everyone who knows me as a collector knows that I hold PCGS in high esteem for many reasons. I have often been accused of "drinking the Kool-Aid," to which I can only respond, "OH YEAH !!" (I like the red, and the green flavors. Which ones do you like?) But it would be unrealistic to expect PCGS to be perfect in every respect, all the time, in every circumstance. And let's remember, it is a business, for profit, and publicly owned, with an obligation to its shareholders to maximize value. Nothing wrong with that. The first attempt at a TPG was the original ANACS, which was part of the ANA - a non-profit institution organized under a national charter. The original ANACS was a great idea (and kudos to Ken Bresset for really making into a the first TPG as we define them today). However, it ultimately missed the mark, and was surpassed by PCGS and NGC. So, we must accept that the commercial for-profit TPG's actually represent the better model, both as businesses, and for the collecting community at large. Look at all the awesome resources PCGS makes available ... I can spend hours buried in "Coin Facts" alone. But occasionally, there are a few things here and there worthy of questioning, or at least discussion.

    No matter how much respect you have for PCGS, no matter how valuable you find TPG's and certification, no matter how much you acknowledge the superior grading capability of the professsionals in the grading room ... you still have to remember this one piece of advice that will never stop being extremely relevant to all collectors, including those buying Omaha coins or issues affected by the Omaha hoard:

    Buy the coin, not the plastic.

    Best,
    Sunnywood

    P.S. notlogical ... LOL ... I agree that Mr. Spock would sum up numismatics with: "Fascinating, but not logical."
    Do you remember when he looked at two identical female androids, and confused their processors into brain freeze with the deliberately illogical: "I like you, but I don't like you."
    Imagine what he might think looking at two otherwise identical dipped white modern coins in different graded slabs !!!

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