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Summary please of the Dorkarl/TDN argument

I've seen at least two threads with many, many posts. I'm interested in the story but don't want to read 400+ posts to get to the heart of the matter.

Comments

  • RussRuss Posts: 48,515 ✭✭✭
    TDN believes that it's risky to buy coins sight unseen.

    Dorkkarl thinks that a collector should never buy coins sight unseen.

    Obviously, they are diametrically opposed on this issue.

    Russ, NCNE
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>TDN believes that it's risky to buy coins sight unseen.

    Dorkkarl thinks that a collector should never buy coins sight unseen.

    Obviously, they are diametrically opposed on this issue. >>

    image
  • BigE took a $9000 chance on a raw coin at Stacks. TDN along with Legend did not think this was wise. (buying raw coin without seeing it in hand). Some questions about toning, grade, ect.... Coin is now in PR-66 NGC holder, and some view the logic of TDN as non-collector.

    Most here agree that one should never take such a large gamble on a raw coin, and some would not on a slabbed coin, but the whole point is the some wanted to rub the gain of the raw coin in TDN's face.

    Personally I send my congrats to BigE on the chance taken, but would never do the same or recommend it to any of our clients, but kudos all around..

    As for knocking TDN, I don't see the logic, but I guess that playing forum games is part of participating for some.
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    You gotta be kidding. They both think that buying raw unseen coins is a bad decision yet they get into a fight? That's peculiar.
  • JoflaxJoflax Posts: 979
    Its just about people having different views on how much they are willing to pay for a coin sight unseen. If you take the personalities out of the posts it is a good subject .
    Unfortunately it has become a pi**ing contest.
    Buy the dips!!!
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692

    This was PM'd to me and I thought it seemed to make sense:

    "With regards to TDN vs. DorkKarl:

    TDN thinks BigE took a big gamble on a raw seated dollar he bought at Stacks based on photos alone for PF 64 + money. When the coin slabbed PF66 at NGC TDN acknowledged that the gamble paid off but that it was still in essence a gamble.

    Dorkkarl seemed to think this assesment of TDN's was rather condescending, in that reducing the transaction to a gamble belittled BigE's evident skills as a savvy numismatist, especially with regards to a coin that Laura Legend had had a chance to view in person but passed on.

    In the end, DorkKarl wanted TDN to acknowledge that skill played a part in BigE's purchase, but the most TDN could say was that BigE made a flush on the river.

    Sorry for the PM - I found the exchange amusing, but I don't want to get involved. "

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 2nd half of the argument is that DK is a COLLECTOR. Most everyone else is not by his tight defintion.

    Doing further research it was found the Dorkkarl is not a collector either, failing to meet parts of his own definition.

    Basically, there are no COLLECTORS left, not one (ok, well maybe a newborn baby who is given a state quarter to hold)......but
    everyone is a variant of a SPECULATOR. There are no exceptions per the DK definition, not even himself as he will eventually deduce.

    Have a nice day you "dirty l'il speculator."

    (blast from the past: that last quote was from a childhood coin dealer who upon finding out that my brother sold the CH BU $20 saint he had purchased. He made $50 on a $275 purchase as gold was moving up around 1975-76. The dealer stated that he would never have sold him the coin if he knew he was speculating with it.
    As a testament to that fine dealer I have his coin company name as part of my ebay id......it's all about speculation in the end).

    Amazing to see so many spin-off threads on this BigE/DK topic.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    TDN said Laura Legend saw the coin and thought it was AT

    Laura said all major players were there and if it was worth more, they would have bought it

    TDN said only foolish people spend that kind of money without seeing it or having representation present

    and only helps keep AT doctors flush



    Dorkkarl just summarized war between BigE, Laura and TDN

    but TDN didn't like the version stating again that it is foolish betting big drawing to an inside straight even though rarely you may hit





  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually, I made a mistake and misquoted Laura. She told me she 'didn't like the coin'. For what specific reason, I don't know.

    Now that we know the coin doesn't look like the image [per BigE, who has now seen it in hand], all speculation about it's worthiness or unworthiness is simply that - speculation.
  • StampAlarmStampAlarm Posts: 1,668
    Human nature gone haywire.
  • RBinTexRBinTex Posts: 4,328
    "Obviously, they are diametrically opposed on this issue."

    image
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems there really is no argument... time to move on...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    I can't believe how much "controversy" this issue has brought up. I think its been a great educational lesson for all of us, as many great point have been made and discussed. If you read the original purchase thread, I personally felt that it was a nice coin. Would I personally take a big chance buying a coin like that from the pictures.....probably not. But situations are often high risk/high reward. If you are willing to take a chance, you may reap a big reward. However, you can also go broke taking large risks over the long haul.

    Congrats to BigE on a fruitful purchase, and thanks to all who have provided differing viewpoints on making purchases. I have learned something from it.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
  • etexmikeetexmike Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I've seen at least two threads with many, many posts. I'm interested in the story but don't want to read 400+ posts to get to the heart of the matter. >>



    image

    image

    image

    Now we are just waiting for the next round.

    image
    -------------

    etexmike
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,692 ✭✭✭
    i'll give my summary:

    big-e bought a raw coin based, allegedly based strictly on a digi-pic

    tdn guaranteed the coin was'nt a gem based strictly on the same digi-pic
    legend passed on same coin based on seeing it in hand
    both said big-e was a fool for doing such a thing & should instead have paid legend 5% to buy the coin for him

    big-e bought the coin & scored

    tdn said big-e got "lucky"

    dorkkarl contends that calling big-e "lucky" was an insult, especially considering that legend passed on same coin sight-seen

    roadrunner & colonial-coin-union blabbered alot

    dorkkarl blabbered alot in response

    tdn blabbered alot

    anaconda did'nt read any of the threads

    that's about it!

    K S
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well that clears it all up... (I actually read all the threads... because it is fun)... Cheers, RickO
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,692 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You gotta be kidding. They both think that buying raw unseen coins is a bad decision yet they get into a fight? That's peculiar. >>

    the coin in question was NOT bought sight-unseen

    K S
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whatever happened to the coin?
  • image
  • image
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How was it that someone allowed it to downgrade from NGC PF66 to PCGS PR61?
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • image
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It's now in a PCGS PF61 holder ... >>


    It went from NGC Proof 66 to PCGS Proof 61?

    image

    What is the coin?

    Nice avatar Fletcher. image

    Edit: I now see that Fletcher was kidding. image
  • image
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Still, what was this coin?
  • TomBTomB Posts: 20,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have to be more diligent on the emoticon use, Fletcher.image
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • SoCalBigMarkSoCalBigMark Posts: 2,786 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Last I heard Adrian was in Texas trying to clean up a mess in aisle C.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Still, what was this coin? >>


    Somebody? Anybody?
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    It was a PF Seated Dollar that BigE bought raw at Stack's.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>It was a PF Seated Dollar that BigE bought raw at Stack's. >>


    Thanks.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    With all that had been said wouldn't it be fair to say that anyone including the finest grader on the planet is "lucky" to get a coin grade so "well" at the TPG whether it was raw, already slabbed by a TPG or even stickered based solely on a digital picture?

    On the few times I "scored" big time based on a ebay picture that I purchased, I would never state it was based purely on skill. Luck has got to be a part of the equation?
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • You guys notice Adrian last visited on October 13, 2009. Guess they have computers down there in the Amazon.
  • BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You guys notice Adrian last visited on October 13, 2009. Guess they have computers down there in the Amazon. >>


    You realize the Amazon doesn't run thru Costa Rica, or is he now in South America?
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it Easter already? Seems so with this resurrected thread....image Cheers, RickO
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Is it Easter already? Seems so with this resurrected thread....image Cheers, RickO >>

    If it were Easter, this thread would have resurrected on the third day, not after more than two years....
  • You realize the Amazon doesn't run thru Costa Rica, or is he now in South America?

    It's all Amazon to me.
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    Just because someone got lucky once doesn't make the practice a smart one. One can do anything with a sample size of 1.

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