95-W Silver Eagle and PCGS advice Part II THE END
Fuzzy
Posts: 12
Ok, here we go again for any of you who remember the original post where the buyer on Ebay of the silver eagle was claiming spots etc on eagles possibly from PCGS dipping. The buyer received the coin today and this is the email I got
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THIS COIN HAS A PIT IN THE FIELD JUST ABOVE THE LETTER (L) IN LIBERTY ON THE OBVERSE OF THE COIN. I DID NOT EVEN NEED A LOOP TO SEE THIS FLAW. SO I USED A 10X LOOP AND THE PROBLEM IS A VERY SMALL PIT WITH A HALO STARTING. THAT MEANS IN THE LONG TERM THIS WILL BE A PROBLEM AREA. BECAUSE IT WILL JUST GET LARGER IN TIME, EVEN IN THE HOLDER. I DID NOT LEAVE ANY FEEDBACK AT THIS TIME. SO WE CAN COME TO SOME SORT OF TERMS ON THIS AUCTION. I DON'T LIKE TO RETURN COINS OVER $1000.00 DO TO SHIPPING COST. IF YOU WERE TO KNOCK OFF SOME MONEY ON THIS COIN THAT WOULD MAKE UP FOR THE PIT. THE REVERSE OF THE COIN IS OK BUT I HAVE SEEN PCGS DO BETTER ON THERE GRADING. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO ON THIS MATTER. I LIKE THE COIN BUT NOT THE (PIT). I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE IN THE COIN FOR. BUT DO YOU WANT TO MAKE AN OFFER. SO I CAN GIVE YOU POSITIVE FEEDBACK ASAP. SO WE CAN END THIS AUCTION.
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1) I looked this coin over with 10X loupe looking for spots etc on two paranoid occasions and don't think I would have missed a pit.
2) This is a PCGS PR69 coin. Would it have gotten a 69 if there was a pit?
3) He mentions feedback twice. With 140+ positive feedbacks and no negative or neutral I couldn't give a rip about any negative feedbacks. Am I the only one that sees a bit of feedback extortion there?
4) Is there any merit to the claim that even in the holder the "pit" will get worse?
My first reaction is to tell him to return the coin if he's not satisfied. He is a dealer and I've seen where he's sold the same coin in PR68 for as much as he paid for my pr69.
My second reaction is to ask him what he thinks it is worth to him which I just know is going to insult me.
Opinions? Questions? Flames?
Fuz
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THIS COIN HAS A PIT IN THE FIELD JUST ABOVE THE LETTER (L) IN LIBERTY ON THE OBVERSE OF THE COIN. I DID NOT EVEN NEED A LOOP TO SEE THIS FLAW. SO I USED A 10X LOOP AND THE PROBLEM IS A VERY SMALL PIT WITH A HALO STARTING. THAT MEANS IN THE LONG TERM THIS WILL BE A PROBLEM AREA. BECAUSE IT WILL JUST GET LARGER IN TIME, EVEN IN THE HOLDER. I DID NOT LEAVE ANY FEEDBACK AT THIS TIME. SO WE CAN COME TO SOME SORT OF TERMS ON THIS AUCTION. I DON'T LIKE TO RETURN COINS OVER $1000.00 DO TO SHIPPING COST. IF YOU WERE TO KNOCK OFF SOME MONEY ON THIS COIN THAT WOULD MAKE UP FOR THE PIT. THE REVERSE OF THE COIN IS OK BUT I HAVE SEEN PCGS DO BETTER ON THERE GRADING. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO ON THIS MATTER. I LIKE THE COIN BUT NOT THE (PIT). I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE IN THE COIN FOR. BUT DO YOU WANT TO MAKE AN OFFER. SO I CAN GIVE YOU POSITIVE FEEDBACK ASAP. SO WE CAN END THIS AUCTION.
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1) I looked this coin over with 10X loupe looking for spots etc on two paranoid occasions and don't think I would have missed a pit.
2) This is a PCGS PR69 coin. Would it have gotten a 69 if there was a pit?
3) He mentions feedback twice. With 140+ positive feedbacks and no negative or neutral I couldn't give a rip about any negative feedbacks. Am I the only one that sees a bit of feedback extortion there?
4) Is there any merit to the claim that even in the holder the "pit" will get worse?
My first reaction is to tell him to return the coin if he's not satisfied. He is a dealer and I've seen where he's sold the same coin in PR68 for as much as he paid for my pr69.
My second reaction is to ask him what he thinks it is worth to him which I just know is going to insult me.
Opinions? Questions? Flames?
Fuz
If I sound ignorant it's probably because I am.
0
Comments
Cameron
If you know you are going to be insulted with his offer, don't give him the chance to make one. A lot of people seem to play that feedback extortion card. You may not care about your first neg, but many, many people do. If you already had one or two negs, he might not have used that angle.
Yes, you will be inconvienced, but otherwise he's just trying to knock down the price after winning the auction. Offer it to the runner-up bidder for his/her bid, you still might be ahead of what the counteroffer price would be.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I'd just have him return the coin (even offer to pay for the postage back-can't be more than $10 or so) and list it again...but block him from bidding.
Chris
Be sure to keep all the e-mail on this trade in case he does neg you. Ebay does frown on retalitory feedback and may ask to see the e-mail if you need to to cantact them about this guy.
I have run into this type of buyer before and I don't think you should compromise. This is one of the oldest ploys around on Ebay, its like you are being held hostage. Krnaky's response sounds very good. Get your coin back and make the determination for yourself if it has this "pit". If it does then you can get the credit from PCGS yourself. I do know that PCGS will slab 69's with spots and haze but I doubt they would give a 69 if it did have a problem like that. You can also get a credit for the auction listing if he does return it.
Larry
Dabigkahuna
If you offered him a return policy in the beginning, then honor that. If you gave him 3 days, then stick to 3 days. Not a day longer. If not, then tell him it is sold.
If he returns it, then do NOT leave feedback until he does. He sounds like a total scumbag and he'll probably neg you no matter what you do.
Personally I'd just leave him a negative feedback: "SELLERS BEWARE - FEEDBACK EXTORTIONIST!!!" and be done with him.
PCGS allows minor planchet and die issues in coins up to MS and PR-70. I know, I have an MS-70 bullion gold with a strike-through in it. Looks exactly like the "pit" this guy is crying about. On Regrade, PCGS will give the coin a 69DCAM again without batting an eye.
If your terms have passed already, tell him that you are sorry, but he bought it agreeing to a specific return policy, and since he thinks PCGS overgraded it, he can send it to them to honor their grade guarantee.
Keith
Also, Kieferscoins mentioned that he could possibly get a refund/reimbursement from PCGS if the grade is wrong? What is that all about?
Fuz
Cameron Kiefer
Now I'm wondering about that difinition of problem free. If a coin is truly problem free would it not be a PR70 or set a new standard and NGC can grade it a PR71 (couldn't resist)?
Fuz
The problem is caused by material that got on the surface of the die. This is not a tick on the coin caused by handling, but caused by the die itself. Because of that, it doesn't count against the grade if it is minor.
Keith
I've sold many coins that I've listed as problem free. If someone tried to return a coin to be bacause the "Problem free MS63" had bagmarks, I'd laugh at them. Problem free just means no problems for the grade.
You can apply to ebay and get your your final value fee refund because the seller returned the item. All you're out is the initial listing fee.
Re-elect Bush in 2004... Dont let the Socialists brainwash you.
Bush 2004
Jeb 2008
KK 2016
You can relist the coin for free.
Well eeexxxxxxxcccccccccuuuuuuuusssssssseee me!
Fuzzy, with all due respect, you were basically warned about dealing with this guy when you first asked. Didn't I say something about people who type in all caps? Why are you even considering continuing dialog and wasting your time with this jerk?
I've seen where he's sold the same coin in PR68 for as much as he paid for my pr69.
All the more reason not to deal with him.
My second reaction is to ask him what he thinks it is worth to him which I just know is going to insult me
Why? Are you a glutton for punishment?
OK I'm done now. I think you get the point.
I've replied to him, not in the language or tone I would like to, and am waiting for the reply. His options are to keep the coin at the price he's paid or to return it and I will refund. I will relist it at which point he can bid on it again having observed it in person, and bid accordingly.
I didn't belabour the negative feedback issue but did point out it wasn't a catostrophic thing with me.
If he does neg me you can be sure I'll give the suggestion given here on how to remove it. As a matter of fact I'm looking forward to a neg just so I can give that method a shot
And in the end I'm a little smarter.
Fuz
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
there have been numerous posts on here about him!!!!!!!
YOUR CUSTOMER MUST BE BURIED IN THE COIN. I WAS ONLY LOOKING FOR $150.00. WITCH IS NOT A LOT OF MONEY ON THIS COIN. RETAIL ON THIS COIN IS $2000.00 AND BID PRICE IS $1900.00. PER THE LATEST GRAY SHEET.
I need taller boots? PCGS price guide puts this coin at $3250. Is that guide worthless? What is a grey sheet?
I'll hold off on answering until I get flamed a bit more. I'm NOT going to lower the price. If he really wanted to send it back he would have simply replied OK.
What is this grey sheet he's referring to? PCGS puts a $2000 retail on a PR68.
I have to shower and run to the big ciry (well it's big enough to have a Sams Club) and pick up a few things for my daughters. When I get back I'll be quoting his PR68 auction and PCGS price guide. Hopefully someone here will have come up with what this grey sheet is.
Thanks
Fuz
1. send coin back immediately registered mail insured for a prompt refund
OR
2. Keep it and shut up
he's playing games. sounds like the time I had a SLQ for bid on ebay with 2 great pics and a guy bid about 70.00 more than it was worth (150.00) and had the nerve to try and tell me he overpaid. I politely replied with a link to the listing and informed him HE decided what it was worth because I had no reserve.
Greysheet is a price list for nearly every coin out there that dealers use. the prices are commonly referred to as wholesale and are what they commonly trade between dealers as.
My guess is that rottingflesh THOUGHT he had this turned around for a quick buck and his deal fell thru!
Get your coin back and be sure to block him. If you don't know how to block someone will send you the link!
His comment about being buried in the coin is inflammatory and only shows that he's trying to get under your skin and try and rip you.Don't argue with him or refute anything he says. He'll only get weirder. You don't need the stress and hassle, especially when dealing with a con artist. You can sell this coin again at close to the same levels with great ease, screw him!
Do everything in your power to rid yourself of this scum as soon as you can. That basically entails ignoring his comments, not arguing with him, politely thanking for his time, and instructing him how to ship the coin back to you.
Let us know how the next chapter turns out.
Your last email to him sould read: "If you wish to return the coin, let me know ASAP and ship it to [address]. I'll expect the package to be postmarked no later than 1/8/02 (Tuesday). Otherwise I'll assume the coin is sold. Packages postmarked after that will be refused. Thanks for your understanding!"
I've blocked this crazy from bidding on my auctions.
TOM:
I'M JUST GOING TO KEEP THE COIN. I'M NOT GOING THROUGH ALL THE HASSLE OF SENDING THE COIN BACK. I WILL MAKE A LITTLE ON THE COIN. BUT IF IT WAS FOR MY PERSONAL COLLECTION I WOULD SEND IT BACK IN A HART BEAT. I HAVE A PCGS PR-70 IN MY PERSONAL COLLECTION. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
XXXXXX
PS: PLEASE LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK ON THIS AUCTION AS I DID FOR YOU.
And then I got.......
I HAVE TO PUT THIS COIN BACK ON AUCTION. THE HOLDER HAS TO MANY FINE SCRATCHES THAT REFLECT ON THE COIN AND THE SMALL PITS. WATCH OUT ON THESE 1995-W SILVER EAGLE PROOFS PR-69.
I am sooooooo glad that is done with.
Yup by golly he has it up on Ebay. I really have to watch this one.
Thanks again everyone.
Fuz
ps: please note the coin went from having a pit to having pits.
So where's the new auction? I'm sure that all the horrid "pits" and "scratches" are duly outlined in his description, right?
Ritchie1995-W SILVER EAGLE
My girlfriend says that if you think it was interesting from the sidelines you should have had a front row seat for the real show.
I have to give her a lot of credit too. She heard more than a few bad words over the last few days.
Ritchie, you are bad
dbaldie55, priority, registered, insured for $2350.00 with DC is $14.00. Maybe the added insurance for the bigger price?
Really folks it is a majorly nice coin. I was kind of hoping it would come back so I could check for myself if it really does have that pit.
Fuz
A while back I saw a PCGS PR79 that sold for $7000. A while later someone put one on Ebay for $15,000 that had one bid that was retracted. Wish I would have printed that one.
Anyone know what the pop report is on PR70 SAE's?
Fuz
Last time I checked, Grand Rapids was in southWESTERN Michigan.
THE COIN HOLDER HAS SOME SMALL MARKS THAT DO REFLECT ON THE COIN. PCGS GRADES THE COIN AT PR-69 DCAM. THE COIN IN THE PHOTO IS THE COIN ON AUCTION NOT LIKE SOME OTHER AUCTIONS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR E. MAIL.
Interesting how he doesn't mention any pits.
I like your feedback you left for him "...........a real experience"
if only rottingflesh knew!! ha ha