Is SGC going out of business or just trying to?
JustAl
Posts: 24
Just throwing this one out there...
Anyone who regularly checks all the major grading companies' sites may have noticed how lousy SGC's "specials" have been in the recent past. I didn't think they could do it, but they hit a new low this month:
Hockey/Basketball Special - 1950-present: Complete set (90% or better), $6/card, $500 maximum value, 20 day turn-around
Nonsports Special - Any 20th century non-sports card: $6/card, $1000 maximum value, 20 day turn-around
There are a lot of smart folks on these forums who can straighten me out on this one, but isn't the big money in baseball and not Munsters? Are there many collectors itching to send several hundred modern hockey cards to SGC for grading? As a baseball card collector, I see no incentive at all to consider SGC.
Anyone who regularly checks all the major grading companies' sites may have noticed how lousy SGC's "specials" have been in the recent past. I didn't think they could do it, but they hit a new low this month:
Hockey/Basketball Special - 1950-present: Complete set (90% or better), $6/card, $500 maximum value, 20 day turn-around
Nonsports Special - Any 20th century non-sports card: $6/card, $1000 maximum value, 20 day turn-around
There are a lot of smart folks on these forums who can straighten me out on this one, but isn't the big money in baseball and not Munsters? Are there many collectors itching to send several hundred modern hockey cards to SGC for grading? As a baseball card collector, I see no incentive at all to consider SGC.
0
Comments
Joe
<< <i>Just throwing this one out there...
Anyone who regularly checks all the major grading companies' sites may have noticed how lousy SGC's "specials" have been in the recent past. I didn't think they could do it, but they hit a new low this month:
Hockey/Basketball Special - 1950-present: Complete set (90% or better), $6/card, $500 maximum value, 20 day turn-around
Nonsports Special - Any 20th century non-sports card: $6/card, $1000 maximum value, 20 day turn-around
There are a lot of smart folks on these forums who can straighten me out on this one, but isn't the big money in baseball and not Munsters? Are there many collectors itching to send several hundred modern hockey cards to SGC for grading? As a baseball card collector, I see no incentive at all to consider SGC. >>
Not for nothing, but have you checked the PSA specials recently?
PSA Set RegistrySM Grading Special
Non-Sports Cards
$5 per card
Maximum value $75
20 card minimum
Excludes Tallboys, Supersized Cards, T-3's, Thick Memorabilia Cards and Autographed Cards
Click here for full details!
The customer service was simply awful. They charged my credit card immediately and never sent an e-mail to tell me my customer #. So a week goes by and I launch an e-mail asking for the # so I can track my order. NO RESPONSE! After a second week I sent another e-mail and got the same result. I did get the cards back in a reasonable amount of time but at no point could I have looked up my submission because they wouldn't give me the #. I was completely in the dark. It's been another week and they still haven't responded. So, if that's what I can expect when everything goes right, who would help when something actually goes wrong? So to answer the question, Yes! They are trying to go out of business. And it's really too bad because I wish all my PSA cards were in those great holders, but it won't happen for me.
Edit: They did respond. Ignore the senseless rant.
<< <i>Just check PSA and SGC sales on ebay. It is a 10 fold of a diference. >>
Not on Pre-War, it's not...
<< <i>I wanted to test the waters and just see what it was like to try SGC. I sent three completely worthless cards from '89 and '90. There was no chance of making my money back, it was just an experiment. I sent 2 cards that PSA would have definately given 10s (IMHO), but they weren't perfect. I sent in 1 that was completely flawless. A simply perfect 5 cent card. It was the only card I could find that I knew deserved a 100, so I sent it. I got exactly the grades I wanted. Two 98s and a 100. You'd think I would run back with more submissions and send in some real cards, but I'm not going to.
The customer service was simply awful. They charged my credit card immediately and never sent an e-mail to tell me my customer #. So a week goes by and I launch an e-mail asking for the # so I can track my order. NO RESPONSE! After a second week I sent another e-mail and got the same result. I did get the cards back in a reasonable amount of time but at no point could I have looked up my submission because they wouldn't give me the #. I was completely in the dark. It's been another week and they still haven't responded. So, if that's what I can expect when everything goes right, who would help when something actually goes wrong? So to answer the question, Yes! They are trying to go out of business. And it's really too bad because I wish all my PSA cards were in those great holders, but it won't happen for me. >>
I just sent in a re-holder submission to SGC and it was back in about 3-4 business days. Not bad service at all. And all of the flips were completed accurately. How about that!
<< <i>
<< <i>I wanted to test the waters and just see what it was like to try SGC. I sent three completely worthless cards from '89 and '90. There was no chance of making my money back, it was just an experiment. I sent 2 cards that PSA would have definately given 10s (IMHO), but they weren't perfect. I sent in 1 that was completely flawless. A simply perfect 5 cent card. It was the only card I could find that I knew deserved a 100, so I sent it. I got exactly the grades I wanted. Two 98s and a 100. You'd think I would run back with more submissions and send in some real cards, but I'm not going to.
The customer service was simply awful. They charged my credit card immediately and never sent an e-mail to tell me my customer #. So a week goes by and I launch an e-mail asking for the # so I can track my order. NO RESPONSE! After a second week I sent another e-mail and got the same result. I did get the cards back in a reasonable amount of time but at no point could I have looked up my submission because they wouldn't give me the #. I was completely in the dark. It's been another week and they still haven't responded. So, if that's what I can expect when everything goes right, who would help when something actually goes wrong? So to answer the question, Yes! They are trying to go out of business. And it's really too bad because I wish all my PSA cards were in those great holders, but it won't happen for me. >>
I just sent in a re-holder submission to SGC and it was back in about 3-4 business days. Not bad service at all. And all of the flips were completed accurately. How about that! >>
If these turnaround times stay in the 2 month range then most of the stuff I submit for personal reasons will start going to an alternative grader. I recognize that PSA can't pinpoint when a sub will be done, but this whole 'let us take your money now, and we'll get back to you when we feel like it' routine is starting to get a little old.
Did he really get kicked off here? Please don't tease me j/k.
Was wondering why he hasn't chimed in on this thread.
<< <i>I wanted to test the waters and just see what it was like to try SGC. I sent three completely worthless cards from '89 and '90. There was no chance of making my money back, it was just an experiment. I sent 2 cards that PSA would have definately given 10s (IMHO), but they weren't perfect. I sent in 1 that was completely flawless. A simply perfect 5 cent card. It was the only card I could find that I knew deserved a 100, so I sent it. I got exactly the grades I wanted. Two 98s and a 100. You'd think I would run back with more submissions and send in some real cards, but I'm not going to.
The customer service was simply awful. They charged my credit card immediately and never sent an e-mail to tell me my customer #. So a week goes by and I launch an e-mail asking for the # so I can track my order. NO RESPONSE! After a second week I sent another e-mail and got the same result. I did get the cards back in a reasonable amount of time but at no point could I have looked up my submission because they wouldn't give me the #. I was completely in the dark. It's been another week and they still haven't responded. So, if that's what I can expect when everything goes right, who would help when something actually goes wrong? So to answer the question, Yes! They are trying to go out of business. And it's really too bad because I wish all my PSA cards were in those great holders, but it won't happen for me. >>
I don't get this, you sent cards into SGC to 'test the waters' , they graded them accurately according to what you thought your cards would grade and they mailed them back in a reasonable amount of time. Nothing wrong with this.
So your complaint is really only about not getting an email or call-back letting you know your cards grading status? Does this really matter? Isn't having a reasonable turn around time on the grading and accurate grades more important? So you're in the dark about if they received your cards, or what the grades are. You said they charged your credit card right away, so right there you know they have your cards in hand and they are in the grading stage. PSA also charges your credit card as soon as the cards get logged in too.
Sure it's maybe not ideal not finding out your grades online, but frankly I use to like not knowing the grades ahead of time. It made opening the boxes of newly graded cards more exciting not knowing what they graded.
I feel that's a minor issue. But if that's upsets you then I would avoid sending cards into SGC for grading.
Maybe you like mailing cards into another company that doesn't log them in when they receive them, have lots of flip errors, charges your credit card right away (like SGC did), and has moderately accurate grading most of the time.
They have "auction" specials whereby people who buy raw from major auction houses can submit for a smaller fee.
The have "condom" specials for crossovers from PSA/others when the other grading company put the card in one of those damn condoms, unlike the attractive, custom-made inserts that SGC creates.
SGC will *NOT* go out of business. Although they are generally more of a niche player (specifically geared to pre-war), their business model is very sound and the do well for themselves.
<< <i>I wanted to test the waters and just see what it was like to try SGC. I sent three completely worthless cards from '89 and '90. There was no chance of making my money back, it was just an experiment. I sent 2 cards that PSA would have definately given 10s (IMHO), but they weren't perfect. I sent in 1 that was completely flawless. A simply perfect 5 cent card. It was the only card I could find that I knew deserved a 100, so I sent it. I got exactly the grades I wanted. Two 98s and a 100. You'd think I would run back with more submissions and send in some real cards, but I'm not going to.
The customer service was simply awful. They charged my credit card immediately and never sent an e-mail to tell me my customer #. So a week goes by and I launch an e-mail asking for the # so I can track my order. NO RESPONSE! After a second week I sent another e-mail and got the same result. I did get the cards back in a reasonable amount of time but at no point could I have looked up my submission because they wouldn't give me the #. I was completely in the dark. It's been another week and they still haven't responded. So, if that's what I can expect when everything goes right, who would help when something actually goes wrong? So to answer the question, Yes! They are trying to go out of business. And it's really too bad because I wish all my PSA cards were in those great holders, but it won't happen for me. >>
You are very high maintenance.
I will take SGC for pre 1950's stuff any day of the week. PSA seems to have the market cornered with commons and 1980's through 1990's junk that only set registry junkies care about.
<< <i>
I will take SGC for pre 1950's stuff any day of the week. PSA seems to have the market cornered with commons and 1980's through 1990's junk that only set registry junkies care about. >>
I'll take SGC for post 1950's stuff too!
I have only submitted to SGC. I buy both frequently...and I like both....SGC is my preference though. I have thought of submitting to PSA but I have never for one major reason, PSA's snail paced turn-around time. Some of you guys on the forum talk about it sometimes taking months to get back a submission. To me, that is insane. I cannot think of any other service that a consumer uses that states a turn around time, yet totally ignores it...why bother? If my mechanic tells me it will take 3-5 days to fix my car...I expect it back in 3-5 days. If I pay to get it in 3-5 days, yet he gets it back to me consistently in 20 days..that would be a MAJOR problem...and I would find another mechanic who offers the same quality of service. For me that is SGC.
.
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
<< <i>SGC also has a partnership with VCP (VintageCardPrices.com) whereby you can view past prices on SGC related auctions for FREE. Unlike PSA, SGC costs nothing to join, too. You would think that for your membership fee at PSA that they would include this VCP service, as well. Hello PSA! >>
Hello? HELLO?
I dont think anyone is listening.......
Steve
10 days is not great, but I don't see it as a problem considering I'm only after bulk turnaround times anyway. So maybe I will send SGC some more cards. However I won't be posting another public complaint about anything any time soon, the odds of looking bad are just too high for me.
Personally I think both companies have strengths and weaknesses. From a customer service standpoint, I think you do better with either company by making a phone call than sending an email. Just the way things are.
THANKS guys.
Mickey71
Steve
I didn't say I was worried. SGC said they were worried. I don't break out PSA 8 Mantle's. If they get an 88 I lose money. PSA 8's in Mantle's sell for more than 88's all day long. I was basically saying why I are they limiting there services. They should want high dollar cards in there holders. Anyway, it's there company so they can do what they want.
Mickey71
My concern with PSA is the sheer volume of cards processed. I suspect that someday (hopefully never), we'll start finding out that a lot of these beautiful high-grade pre-war PSA gems that keep popping up in the major auctions aren't the real deal. At that point, every one of us with authentic, high-grade, PSA slabbed cards are going to be in a world of hurt. Look at the POP reports - for example, the 1915 Cracker Jack report has 1,966 PSA 8s! Did collectors (children) in 1915 really preserve that many sharp, well-centered cards? From personal experience as a Topps Venezuelan collector, the highest graded Venezuelan 1959 card (#40 Spahn PSA 6) is an American card erroneously slabbed/labeled as a Venezuelan. Anyway, I do hope that PSA has a good system for finding fakes in the piles of cards they receive daily.
Mikey I know, that is why i carefully worded my post and did not say:
If YOU are worried...............
I said, if IT is a worry then do it yourself.
I still stand by that comment. And from your reply it seems that you are in fact concerned in so much as you ciould get a lower graded card.
Steve
edited to add: The best i can tell you is that see them (SGC) at a show and let them pre grade the cards while they are slabbed.
<< <i>Ever since southerncards got the boot SGC's sales have taken a drastic turn for the worse.
Did he really get kicked off here? Please don't tease me j/k.
Was wondering why he hasn't chimed in on this thread. >>
a couple weeks back joe orlando had a post regarding the pop report and smr. southerncards had a couple not so appreciated responses and that was the final straw
<< <i>It is better for us (the collectors) to have multiple reputable grading companies. I don't want to find a grading monopoly where there is just one player in town. One player = Zero specials
Personally I think both companies have strengths and weaknesses. From a customer service standpoint, I think you do better with either company by making a phone call than sending an email. Just the way things are. >>
Well said. Competition is a good thing for grading and all grading companies can strive to improve their customer service and grading accuracy.
Bigdcards, keep on posting. It takes a big person to admit they made a mistake. We all have at one point or another in threads here, only sometimes it's hard to admit we did. Interesting test you tried with SGC. I wonder how the same cards would grade with PSA, Global, or Beckett?
Also, not that I'm a large submitter to SGC and trying to defend them in my post. I really don't submit much to SGC right now but I would not hesitate to give them a try. I do collect cards in SGC slabs on occasion and have about 150 pre 1971 cards in them. Most are vintage Football and some Tallboy Basketball (b4 PSA was grading them).
PSA really has a lot of the card business locked up with the registry.
Brilliant idea on their part.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I will take SGC for pre 1950's stuff any day of the week. PSA seems to have the market cornered with commons and 1980's through 1990's junk that only set registry junkies care about. >>
I'll take SGC for post 1950's stuff too!
I have only submitted to SGC. I buy both frequently...and I like both....SGC is my preference though. I have thought of submitting to PSA but I have never for one major reason, PSA's snail paced turn-around time. Some of you guys on the forum talk about it sometimes taking months to get back a submission. To me, that is insane. I cannot think of any other service that a consumer uses that states a turn around time, yet totally ignores it...why bother? If my mechanic tells me it will take 3-5 days to fix my car...I expect it back in 3-5 days. If I pay to get it in 3-5 days, yet he gets it back to me consistently in 20 days..that would be a MAJOR problem...and I would find another mechanic who offers the same quality of service. For me that is SGC.
Nice Walker cards. You can see why one is EX. because of major corner wear on two corners, and one is Ex-Mt - sharper corners with some off-centering. I would take the PSA card graded one half grade higher if I had to choose between the two. But if you like better centering, then the SGC one will work for you. It's all in the eye of the beholder. To me corner wear is a sign of handling. Centering is a manufacturing flaw. As long as the centering isn't 10/90, it's not a big deal to me. I prefer sharper corners.
Also I have to add, I've been one of the lucky submitters to psa as I've never had any submissions take longer than 30 days and all were well-under the stated turnaround times for the level of grading service I've utilized. I've submitted a ton to PSA over the years too.
Regards,
Rich
<< <i>I agree with Mickey71 regarding SGC and the tobacco era cards - the well WILL run dry. Frankly, I believe that SGC has a superior grading scale, the nicest holders, and the best sets of eyes authenticating and grading cards. However, if they don't start making some overtures to us collectors of 50's and 60's baseball (i.e. specials that aren't lousy), they may never get a foothold past 1948.
My concern with PSA is the sheer volume of cards processed. I suspect that someday (hopefully never), we'll start finding out that a lot of these beautiful high-grade pre-war PSA gems that keep popping up in the major auctions aren't the real deal. At that point, every one of us with authentic, high-grade, PSA slabbed cards are going to be in a world of hurt. Look at the POP reports - for example, the 1915 Cracker Jack report has 1,966 PSA 8s! Did collectors (children) in 1915 really preserve that many sharp, well-centered cards? From personal experience as a Topps Venezuelan collector, the highest graded Venezuelan 1959 card (#40 Spahn PSA 6) is an American card erroneously slabbed/labeled as a Venezuelan. Anyway, I do hope that PSA has a good system for finding fakes in the piles of cards they receive daily. >>
no,kids did not preserve them...most of the high grade 1915 CJ's were found in Paris Tennessee, the were unredeemed cards that were untouched, thus the numerous amounts of PSA8......the 1914 cracker jacks on the other hand, never were found in bulk in such a manner...most of the 1914 CJ's had to be found in the Boxes themselves, thus the very low amount of high grade cards.....
DOnt blame PSA because some perfect cards were unearthed......these FINDS happen now and again...
PS...so glad southercards got the boot, he was one big thorn in the side of PSA....makes these boards much nicer without him..GREAT JOB JOE!
Has everyone enjoyed their PSA Kool Aid today?
<< <i>Who is southercards and what did he do? >>
He exercised his freedom of speech...
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is southercards and what did he do? >>
He exercised his freedom of speech... >>
freedom of speech and posting on a message board of a publicy traded company are not the same. CU can kick anyone off they want to or shut down the message board completely.
<< <i>Or they helped him out by letting them somewhat back in the game? >>
Mastro is about maximizing profits, not helping out grading companies.
I would steer clear of SGC. I've been told by my law enforcement sources that the local prosecutor in Parsippany is investigating the company on allegations of dogfighting...yes, DOGFIGHTING! Supposedly, there have been reports that pieces of broken plastic shards have been found on some carpeting and there might be some buried slabs on SGC property.
Hey, if you want to support dogfighting, by all means, have your cards graded by SGC.
It wouldn't surprise me if the people who submit cards to SGC also hate our troops, because that's how those people are.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
You are, and always will be, PSA's greatest ambassador...
From your first post:
"As a baseball card collector, I see no incentive at all to consider SGC."
Which changed into:
"Frankly, I believe that SGC has a superior grading scale, the nicest holders, and the best sets of eyes authenticating and grading cards."
And then you take some passive jabs at PSA.
<< <i>Fandango - thanks for the education of the 1915 Cracker Jacks. Belated congrats to the lucky dog who found that cache.q]
I believe Mr Mint found them. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
<< <i>Fandango - thanks for the education of the 1915 Cracker Jacks. Belated congrats to the lucky dog who found that cache.q]
I believe Mr Mint found them. Someone correct me if I am wrong. >>
true.....he dd fine some of the PSA 8's....a lot came from a recent NYC find...
Actually its very hard for forgers to make good fake cracker jack cards...the stock is wafer thin and is a very hard to replicate...most reprints sold on ebay are obviously reprints...
i believe PSA does a great job finding fake vintage cards...
<< <i>didn't say I was worried. SGC said they were worried.
Mikey I know, that is why i carefully worded my post and did not say:
If YOU are worried...............
I said, if IT is a worry then do it yourself.
I still stand by that comment. And from your reply it seems that you are in fact concerned in so much as you ciould get a lower graded card.
Steve
edited to add: The best i can tell you is that see them (SGC) at a show and let them pre grade the cards while they are slabbed. >>
He doesn't crack them out because a) the card could be determined as trimmed after it's cracked, which would be a nightmare, or b) it could come back an 88, which means he loses money. What he wants from SGC is the same thing you get from PSA; an opportunity to have someone evaluate the card while it's in the slab. Apparently SGC won't do this.
Their policy also says that they won't x-over cards >$500 in value. If you call them and discuss the particulars, they will make exceptions. I know for a fact that they crossed over a card that sold for $17k in the most recent REA.
<< <i>
I didn't say I was worried. SGC said they were worried. I don't break out PSA 8 Mantle's. If they get an 88 I lose money. PSA 8's in Mantle's sell for more than 88's all day long. I was basically saying why I are they limiting there services. They should want high dollar cards in there holders. Anyway, it's there company so they can do what they want.
Mickey71 >>
But why not go the other way? Buy SGC88 Mantles and flip them into PSA 8 holders. Doesn't that seem like a better strategy than trying to get a bump on a PSA 8, since Mantle's in PSA 8 sell for far more than 88's?