newbie question...Mint State

renue

Ok..this is my 2nd post after 3 weeks of collecting and I can't seem to find the answer anywhere else. It's probably a stupid question but here it is:

How are coins sold in the Mint State? I mean, are these coins directly sold from the mint and people have been hoarding them and then selling?

For example, I know I can buy a new uncirculated John Adams from the Mint next week and get is graded. But could I also get a new roll of John Adams' on the 17th at the bank and submit one of the best coins and get a MS grade?

I know this is elementary, buy how are there MS coins from the 1800s like the earlier pic of the 1899 O Morgan still around today.

Please no bashing.

thanks,

Kevin

TorinoCobra71

To The Forums.

One assumes that you get an uncirculated roll from the bank them submit? If so I would have to say yes that you would get a MSxx grade for the coin.


TorinoCobra71

Newcomp103

Think of Mint State as being "new" or...never used for it's intended purpose...how it was when it was first made...the 60-70 grading wise is how the "process" of minting caused marks on the coin while still at the place it was made. In the past a coin was either Circulated or Uncirculated(in it's Mint State) ...now we have the varying degrees(60-low end,lots of marks to 70-perfect, no marks at all) Hope this helps!

ricko

Welcome to the boards... all questions welcome.. enjoy.. Cheers, RickO

roadrunner

Understand that when the grading services apply a MS grade to a coin they are not stating whether or not the coin ever circulated, or even if the coin shows wear or not. Their MS system is more for pricing or valuing a coin than determining it's % of Mint State.

Coins in the 19th century and earlier will often by called MS61 and higher even with signs of circulation. Many or most of these lower graded MS coins will not have full mint luster (ie they are not technically mint state).

Morgan dollars can be expected to have full luster and no signs of circulation since the majority of the specimens around came from mint sewn bags dispersed in the 1960's. Other hoards have been dispersed since as well. Totals number in the millions. They are as fresh as the day they were minted and compare favorably with later 20th century BU coins. Just don't expect a MS65 bust half or bust dollar to look like a MS65 Morgan.

Very few 18th century coins got put aside when new and technically qualify being called mint state. If we applied the same standard for Morgan dollars as we do to early bust coinage, maybe 0-5% of the coins graded Mint State 60-69 would still qualify.

roadrunner

vega1

Coins have various factors that determine their value (there are more like 'eye appeal') but two are rarity and condition. Mint state refers to a coin's general condition, so a coin can be very old and still be in great condition, or very new and in terrible shape. So a coin doesn't have to be directly (newly) from the mint to be considered 'mint state'. Old coins in mint state are still around today because they have been very well taken care of (or "untouched" for many years).

Here is a web site that you might find interesting. It is filled with facts about various specific coins, as well as some general informaiton such as a glossary of terms.

Hope it helps

coinfacts

CoinHunter2003

percyb

"I know this is elementary, buy how are there MS coins from the 1800s like the earlier pic of the 1899 O Morgan still around today."

Grading services such as PCGS examine and determine MS (Mint state) and then designate the quality of the Mint State--MS, by number. If you go to an auction such as Ebay, you can find slabbed coins rated MSxx by PCGS, (as well as "raw" coins--or those that are not graded by services). The Services grade all coins that are submitted...old and new. That's how old coins as well as new ones receive an MS rating. The US Mint does not grade coins. Hope this helps.

foundinrolls

The answer has been touched on but not completely explained.

Its really simple. MS or Mint State numbers are the designations used to describe the states of preservation on a coin that shows no apreciable wear.

MS-60 is the lowest grade of Mint State preservation and MS-70 is the highest state of Mint State preservation.

The concept of Circulated and Uncirculated has been removed from the concept of Mint State Grading.

I find Mint State coins all the time that in fact are "circulated" and come right out of the middle of a roll of obviously worn coins of mixed dates.

There is a higher probability of finding Mint State coins of varying degrees in a roll of newer coins being introduced to the public like the New Dollar coins but any coin that shows no wear no matter where it is found can recieve an MS designation.

Mint State is the state of preservation on any coin MS-60 and above and has nothing to do with whether the coin was found in a roll of new coins or a roll of mixed date circulated coins.

I hope this helps.

Thanks,
Bill

foundinrolls

An addition and someone correct me if I am truly wrong on this. MS still means Mint State and there was comment saying that older coins showing signs of circulation are still graded MS-61. I've never heard of a coin that shows signs of circulation being graded by a professional grader as higher than AU-58 (other than some that are borderline MS-60 with the grader leaning in that direction.)

A coin that is Mint State and poorly struck can be graded MS-60 or 61 but a coin showing actual signs of circulation are not Mint State and I don't believe would be graded as such.

Thanks,
Bill

renue

These have all been good answers. To someone like me, the MS designation seemed to be set aside for coins that have been uncirculated (whether last week or 200 years ago).

But I see now that circulated coins that have been taken care of...can still be a MS graded specimen.

Thanks,

Kevin

AU58WALKERS

" I've never heard of a coin that shows signs of circulation being graded by a professional grader as higher than AU-58"


OH MY!

tahoe98

Type2

You can get one from the bank ,but finding one is the key.The wasington was hard. I went to 13 banks and only one hade them and they did not want to give them to me only if I opend a acc with them. So it my be harder then you think but all coins that you get at banks are MS or mint state that is the best way to get them in roll at face value, like nickel, dimes,Cent.Try to get them the first part of the year you may Get new rolls or make frands with the banker and they will let you know if they have new roll of coins and will save them for you and keep asking Question that is how we all learn you need to get a red book that will help.

19Lyds

Wow Great Question!

Welcome to the forums and think of mint state as having no discernible wear spots on its surfaces.

A weak strike can look like the coin is worn but under close examination, there will still be original strike luster on the weak area which would qualify the coin for as much as an MS63. Yes, you can pull these from your pocket and they still qualify as uncirculated!

For PCGS Guidance on numerical states, visit this PCGS Page.

anablep

Welcome to the forums!

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

We thrive on them!

cladking

Mint state, uncirculated, business strike, BU all mean about the same thing. These refer to coins that
were struck once and then released for collectors and/ or for circulation and have (generally) remained
in their original condition. These coins must have their luster intact even on the highest points of the
design to be considered uncirculated. It doesn't matter if they actually circulated or not but the luster
has to be intact.

There are also coins struck twice or more by polished dies using polished planchets. These character-
istics can vary a little and there is often extra treatment for the die and coining forces. These coins
are considered proofs and are usually distributed only to collectors. They remain proofs because of
the different method of manufacture even if they somehow accumulate a lot of wear. A worn proof
with the detail of an XF coin would grade PR-45.

There is some variation both intentional and otherwise in practices for making both mint state and
proof coins. It is sometimes very difficult to tell them apart. For those which can be positively ident-
ified as being mint state but appearing PR the term PL (proof like) will often be applied.

JJM

Swampboy

The Hunt is on!!!!
Have Fun!

foundinrolls

<< <i>" I've never heard of a coin that shows signs of circulation being graded by a professional grader as higher than AU-58"


OH MY!
>>



Out of context it needs to be added to. Of course it happens but it is explained by someone overgrading an AU 58 coin. So , I guess, I should have said, I've heard of it:-)

Have Fun,
Bill

foundinrolls

<< <i>Mint state, uncirculated, business strike, BU all mean about the same thing. These refer to coins that
were struck once and then released for collectors and/ or for circulation and have (generally) remained
in their original condition. These coins must have their luster intact even on the highest points of the
design to be considered uncirculated. It doesn't matter if they actually circulated or not but the luster
has to be intact.

There are also coins struck twice or more by polished dies using polished planchets. These character-
istics can vary a little and there is often extra treatment for the die and coining forces. These coins
are considered proofs and are usually distributed only to collectors. They remain proofs because of
the different method of manufacture even if they somehow accumulate a lot of wear. A worn proof
with the detail of an XF coin would grade PR-45.

There is some variation both intentional and otherwise in practices for making both mint state and
proof coins. It is sometimes very difficult to tell them apart. For those which can be positively ident-
ified as being mint state but appearing PR the term PL (proof like) will often be applied. >>



I might modify one or two items. The term "business strike" is usually used to describe a coin struck for circulation vs. a proof edition of the same coin. A business strike coin is not necessarily Uncirculated, MS or BU. Most circulated coins, for example are circulated , business strikes.

BU and Uncirculated or Mint State are not exactly the same thing. MS and Uncirculated can have toning and are no longer BU which is a state of preservation that has very little if any toning.

Have Fun,
Bill

clarkbar04

Welcome to the forum. You picked a great place to learn and have your questions answered.

Nobody will bash you. And if they do, screw 'em.

garsmith

Mint State means that the coin shows no sign of having been in circulation. The coins can have some rubs, abrasions, bag marks etc.. as long as they appear to be from manufacturing or shipping not from having been in circulation. Some coins can have heavy rubs and nicks from having been in mint bags and some high AU coins can have more eye appeal than some lower MS coins.

From the PCGS lingo page:
Mint State
The term corresponding to the numerical grades MS-60 through MS-70, used to denote a business strike coin that never has been in circulation. A Mint State coin can range from one that is covered with marks (MS-60) to a flawless example (MS-70).

They also have descriptions of each MS grade, see the link lots of useful stuff here!

Link to PCGS lingo page

Sotty

Mint state means the coin is in the same condition as it left the mint. No rub, hairlines or other handeling marks. Light natural toning might mean that it's still mint state.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Light natural toning might mean that it's still mint state. >>



I think one has nothing to do with the other.