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Having fun again building sets
Buccaneer
Posts: 1,794 ✭✭
As some of you read, I have already started on my new focus: going back in time to the way I used to build raw vintage sets. My goal is to complete the following sets: 67 bb, 68 bb, 70 bb, 71 bb, 72 bb, 69 fb and 70 fb. Four of those sets I completed in the 80s, two are about half done (67 and 68) and one is new (72). After that, I'll work on the other 60s sets.
Anyway, I am building these sets the opposite of the way I have built my registered set - without caring much about condition or price (i.e., not paying much in the first place), just like we didn't care about those things before the grading madness. Don't get me wrong, I love my graded 1957 set and I love how I built it so I can sell it and get my money back, despite the hard work and the thousands of dollars I spent.
But in the past few years:
I have missed the feel of the sturdy vintage cardboards.
I have missed not worrying about how a card will grade.
I have missed going through a large lot and finding some cool looking cards.
I have missed putting cards in a sheet and checking them off on a numbered list.
I have missed seeing how the sheets fill up as I add to them.
I have missed going through the sheets and finding better looking cards to replace the beaters.
But most of all, I have missed buying vintage cards cheaply, even star cards.
Here's an example. I finally got around to sorting through a large stack of 68s that I bought from Bill Henderson about 20 years ago. Most of them are rough and he did have the bad habit of writing the price on the backs of some of the cards but there are some cool specials and star cards in the stack. The cards were bought for pennies each (less 0.08) so it feels like someone gave me a stack of cards and I can truly enjoy them as if I were a kid again.
Thanks again to whomever it was that posted the thread about being done with graded cards and registered sets. You have gave me back the joy again.
Anyway, I am building these sets the opposite of the way I have built my registered set - without caring much about condition or price (i.e., not paying much in the first place), just like we didn't care about those things before the grading madness. Don't get me wrong, I love my graded 1957 set and I love how I built it so I can sell it and get my money back, despite the hard work and the thousands of dollars I spent.
But in the past few years:
I have missed the feel of the sturdy vintage cardboards.
I have missed not worrying about how a card will grade.
I have missed going through a large lot and finding some cool looking cards.
I have missed putting cards in a sheet and checking them off on a numbered list.
I have missed seeing how the sheets fill up as I add to them.
I have missed going through the sheets and finding better looking cards to replace the beaters.
But most of all, I have missed buying vintage cards cheaply, even star cards.
Here's an example. I finally got around to sorting through a large stack of 68s that I bought from Bill Henderson about 20 years ago. Most of them are rough and he did have the bad habit of writing the price on the backs of some of the cards but there are some cool specials and star cards in the stack. The cards were bought for pennies each (less 0.08) so it feels like someone gave me a stack of cards and I can truly enjoy them as if I were a kid again.
Thanks again to whomever it was that posted the thread about being done with graded cards and registered sets. You have gave me back the joy again.
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Comments
Although I am some what new to all of this, I think that this is exaclty what the hobby needs. Why make everything about a hobby built around kids all about money? Just have fun.
Good Luck on your new endeavor. I am thinking about starting a raw 65 set. I have some raw 67's and 68's in various conditions. Send me your need list and I will see what I have.
jojowest
<< <i>I just started an 85 topps baseball set! HA! I am serious!! >>
LOL. What's there to start? Can't you just pick one of these up for $110 or so? I like the '85 set as much as the next guy, but starting this set seems a little like starting a 1991 Topps Traded set.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just started an 85 topps baseball set! HA! I am serious!! >>
LOL. What's there to start? Can't you just pick one of these up for $110 or so? I like the '85 set as much as the next guy, but starting this set seems a little like starting a 1991 Topps Traded set. >>
What fun is that?
<< <i>
<< <i>I just started an 85 topps baseball set! HA! I am serious!! >>
LOL. What's there to start? Can't you just pick one of these up for $110 or so? I like the '85 set as much as the next guy, but starting this set seems a little like starting a 1991 Topps Traded set. >>
Well, Goot is new, young and inexperienced so you have to let him choose his fun even if he is all over the place. I remember building a couple of 1985 sets back in, well, 1985. I still have nightmares of seeing the stacks of vending boxes I had of 1983-1987 and the tedious job it was to sort through all of them. I kind of like what I do know better since I can pick through a much smaller stack to build sets with, you know?
<< <i>Anyway, I am building these sets the opposite of the way I have built my registered set - without caring much about condition or price (i.e., not paying much in the first place), just like we didn't care about those things before the grading madness. >>
Wow Steve
In the din of all the threads from aarvarks to zeppelins - this is a breath of fresh air!
We're talking basics here - the joy of collecting cards - collating, cataloguing, reading the cartoons on the back, batting statistics - all the things we did as kids.
I wish you all the luck!
Great goal - superb focus!
Thread of the month IMO!
mike
<< <i>Most of them are rough and he did have the bad habit of writing the price on the backs of some of the cards but there are some cool specials and star cards in the stack. >>
<< <i>Why would someone selling the cards even start the habit of writing on them? >>
Goot
Back in the "old days" - ya know when we had muskets and horse & buggies - many people wrote stuff on their cards.
Mr Mint recounts a story where he bought an entire 53T set and missed the fact that the guy had used a small initials stamp on every card!
T3s e.g. - many have the card number in pencil on the back - since they don't have them or a price.
Just part of the charm of the good ole days?
<< <i>
<< <i>Why would someone selling the cards even start the habit of writing on them? >>
Goot
Back in the "old days" - ya know when we had muskets and horse & buggies - many people wrote stuff on their cards.
Mr Mint recounts a story where he bought an entire 53T set and missed the fact that the guy had used a small initials stamp on every card!
T3s e.g. - many have the card number in pencil on the back - since they don't have them or a price.
Just part of the charm of the good ole days?
Oh gotcha, I was just wondering if this was going on within the last 15-20 years but I guess not. I can understand them writing on the cards now.Thanks for the info.
<< <i>I did an '85 Topps set a couple years ago. Not as easy as it sounds if you want gem mint cards. The early 80's offer a unique opportunity to break unopened material at a relatively cheap price and put together some really high end sets that you won't find just buying the $100 deal at the local card shop. >>
Agreed. If you're looking for a mint set then it's a different game entirely. Although at that point I think you might as well go for it all and try to put together a mint '86 Topps set. That project has already sent about a half dozen men to the padded confines of Bellevue Psychiatric, and I'm sure more are to follow.
<< <i>
<< <i>I did an '85 Topps set a couple years ago. Not as easy as it sounds if you want gem mint cards. The early 80's offer a unique opportunity to break unopened material at a relatively cheap price and put together some really high end sets that you won't find just buying the $100 deal at the local card shop. >>
Agreed. If you're looking for a mint set then it's a different game entirely. Although at that point I think you might as well go for it all and try to put together a mint '86 Topps set. That project has already sent about a half dozen men to the padded confines of Bellevue Psychiatric, and I'm sure more are to follow. >>
Funny, that '86 project is taking up 1/4 of my office. Started a year ago with a wax case. Busted half the case, pulled about 300 gem cards, and now there's piles and piles of cards and wrappers over there in the corner and I don't even remember which is which. At one time I had decided to just do everything '83 and beyond in factory sets and pre '83 in albums but I changed my mind and decided everything pre 92 would be put in albums and everything after wasn't worth collecting. I might just go back to factory sets.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I did an '85 Topps set a couple years ago. Not as easy as it sounds if you want gem mint cards. The early 80's offer a unique opportunity to break unopened material at a relatively cheap price and put together some really high end sets that you won't find just buying the $100 deal at the local card shop. >>
Agreed. If you're looking for a mint set then it's a different game entirely. Although at that point I think you might as well go for it all and try to put together a mint '86 Topps set. That project has already sent about a half dozen men to the padded confines of Bellevue Psychiatric, and I'm sure more are to follow. >>
Funny, that '86 project is taking up 1/4 of my office. Started a year ago with a wax case. Busted half the case, pulled about 300 gem cards, and now there's piles and piles of cards and wrappers over there in the corner and I don't even remember which is which. At one time I had decided to just do everything '83 and beyond in factory sets and pre '83 in albums but I changed my mind and decided everything pre 92 would be put in albums and everything after wasn't worth collecting. I might just go back to factory sets. >>
To the best of my knowledge no man has, as of yet, assembled a mint '86 set. It can probably be done, but it will take one hell of a lot of work since you cannot buy singles. Who carries mint '86 singles? Nobody. Which leaves you breaking one rack case after another looking for a mint goddamn Calvin Schiraldi.
<< <i>Calvin Schiraldi, huh. Is that the tought one in that set? I haven't gotten to the point of paying attention to the challenge cards yet. I am quite pleased with the 300 I did pull, however. Dead centered with no white showing on top. One thing I regret not doing with the 70's sets was writing down the difficult cards. Some of this information can be found going through pop reports but it doesn't tell the whole story. Not sure I would do the work with an '86 but I imagine if this endeavor costs me anywhere near as much as the '77 set I will. So far, that wax case I purchased set me back just $120. A little more difficult to dump the leftovers though, than with a '77. >>
Schiraldi is a toughie, as are most of the A.S. cards. Almost all of the Mets who are wearing warm up jackets in their picture (Berenyi, Staub, and a couple others) are tough too, since you get those aggravating orange print dots on the blue jackets. One of the Pete Rose specials, I think '77-'80, is also virtually impossible (no PSA 10's last time I checked), and I'm sure there are others which I'm overlooking. Brian and Phil are both working on this set (or at least have worked on it in the past), so maybe they'll chime in with their thoughts as well.
One board member, ajetfan, is putting together a very nice graded set, and at some point I just may be dumb enough to join him. It would be totally impractical, and a conspicuous waste of money, which right off the bat makes it a strong candidate for one of my future projects.
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
<< <i>The sets I am nearly done with are all raw. Guess I got lucky, not getting sucked into paying big money for commons ? Seemed/seems logical to me.
John >>
It depends on the common, and how bad you want it. Some commons are just flat out tough from the 1986 set; not 'Landrum tough', but tough enough such that finding them in mint condition is almost impossible. And when you're only 30 cards away from finishing a mint set, and one of those cards shows up in a PSA 9 holder---- well, I can see why a guy would put in a huge snipe just to cross one off his list.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
I am really enjoying reading this thread. Things have been kind of boring around here lately.
<< <i>I mean, why not just settle for a card with a speck of white on the corner for $.10 instead of putting in a big snipe for that psa 9 or 10? I mean, it's a speck of white on a piece of cardboard with a photo of an athlete (a common athlete at that) on it... am I thinking too logically for this hobby? =-) >>
I can't argue with that logic, but at the same time if you take that approach virtually everything about this hobby is utterly irrational. Why would you pay $500 for an autographed card from Upper Deck when you can get the same auto on a gorgeous 8"x10" for 1/5 the price? Why should RC be any more collectible than non RC's? Why is OPC worth less than Topps, considering that the pictures on the front of the cards are exactly the same and the OPC's are much scarcer? And so on and so on.
That's one nice thing about this hobby.
Some folks are satisfied with beaters, and some folks have to own near perfect cards,
and then there is everyone else somewhere in between the two extremes. A happy home for every card.
None of the approaches make any more sense than any of the others.
Just collect what you can afford, and what makes you happy ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>That's one nice thing about this hobby.
Some folks are satisfied with beaters, and some folks have to own near perfect cards,
and then there is everyone else somewhere in between the two extremes. A happy home for every card.
None of the approaches make any more sense than any of the others.
Just collect what you can afford, and what makes you happy ...
Agree Wolfie
I took this as Steve's announcement of going back to basics - the joy of collecting the cards.
mike
From a pure hobby and no monetary value placed standpoint, there's absolutely nothing wrong with building raw sets. Cards could be trimmed, altered, not as described, etc but that's part of the raw game.
If it's a pure investment play, BEWARE! It's a crap shoot on the front end with exposed risk on the sale.
Building raw and/or graded sets can be equally fun and frustrating. The great thing is, you make the decision on what you want to do. Or you can be indecisive and do both, just like me.
Enjoy
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyway, I am building these sets the opposite of the way I have built my registered set - without caring much about condition or price (i.e., not paying much in the first place), just like we didn't care about those things before the grading madness. >>
Wow Steve
In the din of all the threads from aarvarks to zeppelins - this is a breath of fresh air!
We're talking basics here - the joy of collecting cards - collating, cataloguing, reading the cartoons on the back, batting statistics - all the things we did as kids.
I wish you all the luck!
Great goal - superb focus!
Thread of the month IMO!
mike >>
Mike, thank you for your kind words. The greatest temptation in building/upgrading the sets that I am doing is buying large lots or sets on eBay of a particular year. I would rather pick and choose, either buying from my favorite dealer or buying smaller lots on eBay. That way the journey can be more meaningful and immersive.
Sometime soon, I'll show you a few of those 68s that I got from Bill.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Grading is nice for what purpose it serves, but cant beat collecting like you are 12 again.
That was me! Congrats on your new found freedom! It's great, isn't it? FWIW we must be in some parallel collecting universe because this epiphany came to me after putting together a fully graded '57 set.
Stay classy,
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Steve
<< <i>Steve -
That was me! Congrats on your new found freedom! It's great, isn't it? FWIW we must be in some parallel collecting universe because this epiphany came to me after putting together a fully graded '57 set.
Stay classy,
Ron >>
I should have remembered it was you, Ron. I don't think the epiphany has to do specifically with the 57 set (at least I hope not) but that certainly makes a cool story between us.
I think RonB's recent thread, and talking with Jason Deyo (another Puckett collector), has gotten me back to basics, too. Enough of spending my hard-earned dough on graded cards I already have raw.
Here's to all of us raw collectors!
I've been into 80's GI Joe's for the past year, 18 months. I love the thrill of the hunt, I like seeing all the different auctions on ebay.
Last night one of my favorite sellers was wrapping up a big lot of auctions (4-500), I won about $90 worth of stuff, and had alot of fun. I collect mint raw figures...I enjoy the detail on the figures, the delicate paint, putting new bands in them.
It makes the card world look a little crazy and "out there"....is the enjoyment of a 10 vs a 9 really worth the added cost?
I've been thinking about downgrading some of my cards, and using the funds elsewhere.
I think my collecting philosophy comes down to maximizing enjoyment, while minimizing any "overhang" or dead air. 10's that don't add much, expensive commons, etc.
<< <i>I am going back and doing raw early Falcons from the 60s and 70s and it isnt easy, but it sure is a lot of fun.
Grading is nice for what purpose it serves, but cant beat collecting like you are 12 again. >>
Except when I was a kid (in the 1970s), I and my friends didn't build sets. That probably was a grown-up thing to do. What we did was to buy lots of packs to get cards of your favorite teams and players. I was more interested in adding to my team piles than sorting them by a full set. It was not until I got out of college in 1983 that I went back to what I had started making those cards into full sets. One of the downsides of what we did as a kid was that we couldn't find any place to put those rookie stars or leader cards. They just went into a junk pile.
As much as I am not really caring what a card will grade (i.e., don't care if it's trimmed or altered or not the right size), it probably make sense that if I'm going to pay more than a couple of dollars for a card (like a Mantle or Ryan) - which I will have to do whether it's raw or graded - might as well buy it graded just to be sure to get good value. I have heard of some folks here cracking out graded to go raw and thought that was kind of peculiar. Now I can see why for if one is building a raw set, where would you put the graded card? Might as well add to the set just like all of the other cards.
<< <i>Why would someone selling the cards even start the habit of writing on them? >>
You would think that doesn't make sense, but I frequent paper collectible shows and the postcard dealers, especially the older ones, write the prices on the backs of ALL of them, including expensive ones.
The worst case I saw was a (postcard) dealer who had some poor condition (and overpriced) T201 Mecca Double Folders and each one had the price written on them to the point of where it would have been impossible to remove without more damage to the cards.
Steve
Sometimes it is easier to just buy a PSA 5 or 6 and crack it for cards that could be trimmed or altered. I have been buying hi numbererd 66 topps cards just this way as it is easier finding them.
Mantle cards too is a better bet buying already graded.
Steve
<< <i>. I have heard of some folks here cracking out graded to go raw and thought that was kind of peculiar.
Steve
Sometimes it is easier to just buy a PSA 5 or 6 and crack it for cards that could be trimmed or altered. I have been buying hi numbererd 66 topps cards just this way as it is easier finding them.
Mantle cards too is a better bet buying already graded.
Steve >>
Steve, I am fully agreeing with this method and I would also add that one could buy raw stars from trusted people, of which I have a few. From an email I just received, there is another alternate. He apparently sent a card in for grading and it came back as not meeting the size specs. He thinks the measurements were fine. I remembered the same thing happening to me on a 63. Sagard took it off of my hands for as long as PSA doesn't think it's trimmed, such cards are fine.
I was thinking 68 Topps as well, May do some digging and let you know later.
The 85 topps set was one of my pet projects, I have busted three rack cases and had a pretty decent registry set going.
I finally realized it was just too much for me to handle and I sold off everything, I still have several monster boxes full of nice singles.
Ok, I am off to pick a new set.
67 - this is going to be fun, truly one of the nicest sets of all time.
72 - another fun set for a different reason, pretty much a little of everything here, not to mention a lot of everthing as well.
71 - I think I may be close to having a set but I need to go through each them, it's been 20 years since I worked on this.
68 - because it's there and inexpensive, at least I have a really nice gold binder that matches the backs perfectly.
and beyond...
64 and 65 - the funny story about these sets is that this will the THIRD time that I attempt building these. I bought a few large lots of these when I got back into the hobby in 2003. But then I learned about grading and it made no sense having these in mid-grades so I sold them off cheaply. Then I started to build a PSA 7/8 set, mostly by buying high-quality raws but when I focused on the 57 and 63, I sold these. Hopefully the third time is the charm for these are great, great looking sets.
62 - I'm actually very excited about this set even though it's one of those love it/hate it sets. I never have had any 62s in my collection so every card will be a new experience for me.
66 and 69 - I know they fall in with the others but I am just not crazy about either of these years.
63 - This will be interesting as I just sold off my registered set. I still have about 100 NM raws so that's a good foundation but I'm glad I have other sets to work on before I do this one again.
61 - This was another one of those sets that I started to build in PSA 7/8. Probably doable in raw but not for a while.
60 - Back in the 80s, I had a set that was 2/3 complete. Wished I had kept it instead of selling it a few years back but it helped fund the 57s.
58 and 59 - eh, too overpriced for what you get, imo.
57 - Now this freaks me out just thinking about attempting to build a raw set after the effort I have (and still continue) to go through to complete my registered set.
52 through 56 - I would love to hear some opinions and experiences on what it would be like to build these sets or if they should even be attempted?
Football:
71 - I love this set and it's up there as my third most favorite memories from my childhood (after the 70 bb and 70fb)
68 - I remember seeing some of these around when I was a kid, really don't know much about this set but will provide a nice bookend to complete the 68-71 run.
<< <i>
<< <i>I mean, why not just settle for a card with a speck of white on the corner for $.10 instead of putting in a big snipe for that psa 9 or 10? I mean, it's a speck of white on a piece of cardboard with a photo of an athlete (a common athlete at that) on it... am I thinking too logically for this hobby? =-) >>
I can't argue with that logic, but at the same time if you take that approach virtually everything about this hobby is utterly irrational. Why would you pay $500 for an autographed card from Upper Deck when you can get the same auto on a gorgeous 8"x10" for 1/5 the price? Why should RC be any more collectible than non RC's? Why is OPC worth less than Topps, considering that the pictures on the front of the cards are exactly the same and the OPC's are much scarcer? And so on and so on. >>
I think people do that mainly for the challenge of getting a full PSA (whatever) set. Though personally I find just making as nice a raw set as you can challenge enough. Sort of like if I was to start a run of Ultra Gold Medallion sets (I already have 1995) and people ask me why pay extra for that when you can just settle for regular?
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
1972: As mentioned, this was to be a new set since I only had a couple of cards left over from the old days. Back in the early 1980s, I attempted to build this set in what was known as "mint" back then because such cards in this set look really great in that condition. Unlike all of the other sets, this one I'm going to try for an average of 7.0, with raw NMMT cards balancing out the EXMT ones. So far so good. I've got to 43% complete (2/3 NM and rest split between the two other grades). I have 78 more NM/NM+ cards coming that should pretty much complete 98% of the first three series. This is truly a monster set, for there are a lot of surprises in here. By the way, one of the raw cards I got was a perfectly centered McRae IA with three NMMT corners. Unfortunately, the fourth was not.
1971: I have got this set to 91% complete and close to a 5.0 average by getting new and upgrades to NM and EXMT. I have about 60 more coming that should get me to over 95% and an average over 5.0. I still have over 100 VGEX cards from the old days and will slowly work on getting those upgraded, as well getting the remaining 5% (mostly high#).
1970: I have been upgrading my lower grade cards to NM in this completed set for the fun of it because more than anything else, such cards remind me of the summer 37 years ago. I have about 100 NM cards coming that should get my average to close to 5.0.
1968: I'm actually having a lot of fun building this set, more than I thought I would. It is a cheerful looking set. Right now, I'm at 63% complete but got about 150 more cards coming, all in EXMT and NM condition. After this, the average should be halfway between EX and EXMT since it has come a long ways.
1967: This is truly a beautiful set and one that I am trying to get most of it in EXMT and NM (more of the former though). Unlike the other sets, 1967 EXMT cards look really, really good in my sheets. Right now, I am over 2/3 done with an average grade close to 6.0! Almost no stars yet, though.
I get ALL of my new cards as well as upgrades from one place and if you have been around a while, you would instantly know whom that would be (it's not eBay). Buying raw on eBay has been and still is a waste of time compared to the alternative of paying about the same and being assured that I will get at least EXMT/NM cards (or better!).
I know I have said this before, but it has been such a joy to feel each of these cards as I put them in my binders, to study each one (front and back) and to see the array of colors in the sheets.
Bosox1976