I collect the ASEs and was able to order five sets. I have three opened sets (I just HAD to see them in person...the RP is outstanding!) and two sets in an unopened box. If the price for a single raw set gets to $500+, I will probably sell one set and then sit on the rest for awhile, (but one set will remain in my collection.) With the steady demand we've been seeing, I do think it can happen by the end of the summer. We'll see...
<< <i>I do not believe that a coin with 250,000 minted will hit $600, $800 or $1000 per coin soon. >>
What did you think it would hit? Did you think it would hit the prices it has?
PR68 RP is going for $250 on ebay (PCGS) The PR69 RP are going for a tad more.
Raw, it is probably a $200 coin.
First strike, it is a bit more than $400+, right? PR70 RP is a $1000+ coin (at least, in 1st strike, right?).
The MS is 470,000 strong in mintage and that is $80-$100 raw, right?
You may be surprised by these....doesn't matter how many minted, it matters the DEMAND! >>
You got it! The demand just seems to be there right now. It was mentioned in earlier observation that no one on this board seems to be buying at the current price... but keep talking about higher prices. Meaning that these sets are just seeing lots of hype and perhaps the prices are not justified and may not be maintainable. Very well could be... but I'm not totally convinced of that.
The fact that buying is occuring somewhere outside of the board members hints to me that it is the general public... the collectors. The watchers of the HSN. Yep, they could have ordered from the Mint when they were being offered.... but I think there is a large group out there that do not know how to order from the Mint, or are intimidated by it, or just don't seem to grasp the significance of some of the offerings when they are available. Then, when they see the sell job by HSN or the eBay sales, that is when they feel the urgency to get the coins.
There are a lot of ASE collectors out there. And even though there were 250,000 of these set issued, I suspect there are more collectors than sets available.
I bought a few of these as an investor; I don't see much downside at the levels they are at yet. I plan to hold for awhile and see where the wave takes me.
Plus, there are less than 250k people that have a set. With an ever increasing collector base, the trend is good for those that held. Who would of thought the Buff Commens would of done as good for their set, and this ASE set is much more dramatic with a bigger collector base IMO. Give it a few more years without a key and $450 will seem cheap.
<< <i>I just sold a squentially numbered 20th Ann. Blue Label set for $465+$35 Shipping = $500 on a BIN this evening.
Just a PCGS 69/69/69.
It took all of 2 hours 2 minutes to sell with 3 other bidders, $370, $400 and the Winner.
180115188147
Did I sell too soon? Maybe.
But sometimes it's better to take 5X times now, then wait on 10X later. >>
I think that is good for you but I would have to say that it isn't 5x now. When I did mine, I had to factor in the fees for grading, s/h/i to and from the TPGS, and then the ebay fees. In this case, you are probably closer to 4x what you paid which is still great! (I sold a few raw sets at $160 or so right after they came out ).
<< <i>I sold a few raw sets at $160 or so right after they came out ). >>
And then you used the proceeds to buy 2006 W ASE's, Right? >>
I actually was one of the fools who waited thinking to do an order a little later I did buy 3 at a local show, for $35 each when they were already going for $50 on ebay. (but, I did also have a friend grab 10 more SAE sets for me, I still have 5 unopened ones, and gave him a proof as a thank you, which was all he wanted).
It is very hard to say no to doubling your money in four months. Try and get that from a bank. I will hold on to a few sets, However when they break $500.00 I will SELL most of them
If I were a hard core ASE collector, I'd buy them at these prices as long as there were NO milkspots. I do believe that the RP is now the second most expensive coin in the entire series.
<< <i>If I were a hard core ASE collector, I'd buy them at these prices as long as there were NO milkspots. I do believe that the RP is now the second most expensive coin in the entire series. >>
You guys actually think collectors are buying these things anymore ? Seems to me that speculators are having a field day....and eventually the music will stop.
Would not at half the price. Made 2 RP 70's, 1 PR70 and the rest 69's, out of 10 sets. Sold all for a very nice profit, and kept only 3 graded ms69 20th anniversary uncs for my sets. Do not collect proofs. 7X my original investment is good enough for me.
<< <i>You guys actually think collectors are buying these things anymore ? Seems to me that speculators are having a field day....and eventually the music will stop. >>
I actually DO think the collectors are the one buying at these prices. Except for the sealed boxes... which are probably speculators trying to capture the 70's to sell to the collectors. I think the flippers/speculators have for the most part gotten their quick gains at this point, and the bulk of the demand is now coming from the collectors scrambling to get theirs.
People are so amusing. I've seen more comments on "greed" in the last month than ever before in my life. When a company makes a profit, they're not greedy. When someone buys a mutual fund or stock and holds it long-term, they are not greedy. When someone buys something, holds it, then sells it, they are not greedy.
Greed is when a billionaire gets arrested for tax evasion. Greed is when a multi-billion dollar company starts using slightly cheaper parts to squeeze out a few more million in profit. Buying a coin at $500 that you think will reach $1000 within a year is not greed...it's called "trying to make a profit." That's not greed, it's speculation. The two are worlds apart.
P.S. Look at these sets from the point of view of an ASE collector. Why in the world would anyone pay $5,000 for a 1995-W Silver Eagle? The only difference between it and a 1995-P Silver Eagle is a tiny letter on the reverse. Who honestly cares about a letter?
Why would anyone pay $500 for a 20th Anniversary set? To have the opportunity to own and enjoy a truly splendid, beautiful coin with a totally different finish--one that isn't likely to be repeated until at least 2011 (25th Anniversary). So which is it...I can buy a little letter for $5,000 or I can buy a beautiful coin with a never-before-used finish (excepting the 20th Gold, of course) for $500. To me, the decision is a no-brainer. Sure, the mintage is much higher, but I don't derive joy from looking at a number in a book, nor do I derive joy from looking at a microscopic W on the back of a coin. But I do smile every time I look at my 2006-W RP.
That's my opinion, for what little it's worth.
P.S. My bad--"I do smile every time I look at my 2006-P RP" is what I meant to say
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
It's only called greed when the play doesn't work out. That way the players feel more secure about what they will continue to do.
Today I talked with an online seller who won't be stocking anymore ASE specials. Prices have become insane (just one month later), he says, and I can kind of see that. As someone else pointed out, the luck of 70s is actually priced into 10-set cases. If there's still a lot of Judas Boxes out there, that means that all of these RPs have not been absorbed by collectors, as I think that the people who are shuffling brown boxes between each other's closets are really more speculators than ASE fans. Furthermore, with the CU price of PR70 RPs at (down to?) $1350, there's no way a 10-set box can pull $13 or $14k (unless there really are that many FS tagchasers out there).
P.S. Look at these sets from the point of view of an ASE collector. Why in the world would anyone pay $5,000 for a 1995-W Silver Eagle? The only difference between it and a 1995-P Silver Eagle is a tiny letter on the reverse. Who honestly cares about a letter?
Agent: of course you are right. Mintmarks (and different dates) make a TON of difference in the coin market. In terms of what I look for, they make less of a difference. Was just posting my personal preferences in looking at coins.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< <i>You guys actually think collectors are buying these things anymore ? Seems to me that speculators are having a field day....and eventually the music will stop. >>
I actually DO think the collectors are the one buying at these prices. Except for the sealed boxes... which are probably speculators trying to capture the 70's to sell to the collectors. I think the flippers/speculators have for the most part gotten their quick gains at this point, and the bulk of the demand is now coming from the collectors scrambling to get theirs. >>
I couldn't disagree more. The silver 20th anniversary set was very well known, especially after the gold set sold out so fast. Even I ordered 4 of 'em, and I live under a rock. Yet it took a fair amount of time for the silver set to finally sell out. If you were a collector of ASE, why wouldn't you have bought one back then ? Obviously, as a collector, you knew you would want/need the RP for your set, right ? Now I'm sure there are some 'new' collectors who just started liking ASE's or whatever, but I would bet dollars to donuts that the vast majority of sales going on now are from people hoping to flip/and or get a 70. As a collector, you would have had ample opportunity to order from the mint, failing that you would have had quite a while to pick one up on ebay for 2-3x issue price. You honestly think that many 'collectors' dropped the ball on the set-piece for their ase collections ? The whole ASE craze makes me think of tulips for some reason.
<< <i>You honestly think that many 'collectors' dropped the ball on the set-piece for their ase collections ? >>
Yep, I sure do. There are many people who aren't as obsessed as we are, but who still have to have the coin once they know it exists. There are many people that don't (or won't) buy directly from the Mint. And then there are some who are seeing this thing in their dealer's shop and are falling in love with it.
Overdate: I think the ASE has risen further simply because it's more affordable. I would *love* a 20th Anniversary gold set, but I just can't justify spending $6,000 on one. The silver sets are infinitely more affordable, which leaves them more room to appreciate, since they are within more people's budget.
In my opinion, here is the history of the 20th ASE market:
Flippers bail out at $80-$150 profit per coin (takes us to the $250 range). First group of collectors buy to hold (either from the Mint at $100, or on eBay from $180-$250) Second group of collectors (and some speculators) buy from $250 to $550 First group sees how much the coins have appreciated, and some start selling.
In other words, I think the high prices are shaking out quite a few of the coins that were bought by collectors with the intent to hold them long-term. Nobody (and I do mean nobody) predicted a 500% increase in price in six months. Faced with such capital gains, many less well-to-do collectors are selling for a large profit (the coins are now worth so much that they can no longer justify owning them). It's easy enough to own a $100 set of coins, but when they suddenly explode to $500 a set, some of us poorer folk start looking at all the bills we could use them to pay!
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Ran into a scammer for 20th sets @ 4450 each 7 available.
At least I assume he/she is a scammer.
Found them on craigslist. Only emails at like 5 a.m. in the morning. After trading 1 email a day for several days, I asked for a phone number to speed things up.
They provide me with some crazy like this: Yes. This is my cell phone number 040767-999-999. Please contact me if you are a serious buyer. Thank you. The 9's in the number have all been changed just so the number is not listed exactly like it was in the email. I don't want anybody getting any ideas.
After getting a 20th silver set out of the back of the Newmusmatic News for $350 last week I started to turn over lots of stones trying to track cheap sets down. That is how I stumbled onto craigslist.
O well. I am done looking. I just thought it was funny, did this person really think I would call a cell number like that?
So neocirrhitus... at what point have you sold yours? Surely you are not holding your 4 sets yet.... if you truely believe collectors are not driving this demand. If you truely believe in what you are saying, I'm sure you have sold and are expecting to buy your sets back much more cheaply?
I have not sold any of mine. I have been tempted ever since they crossed the $200 mark... but for some reason just have not done so. I'll admit I do not have a magic crystal ball.... so who knows? We each have to make our own decisions based on what our best guess is.
My take on it.... I am not a buyer at the prices they are bringing now. However, I do not think there is that much downside at this point (unless the economy tanks, etc... in which everything tends to tank along with it)
I sold 3 @ $325 and am keeping one for my collection. Like you said, no one has a crystal ball.....it just seems to me that there was A LOT of time to get a set if you wanted it as a collector....not to flip in a week or month. Maybe you are correct and the demand from collectors is there, either way I was thrilled to have my set paid for, and make a few bucks for half-dimes. Those that are buying at these levels, collector or speculator, have more guts than me
Seems that the average sale of this set keeps creeping up, checking on completed sales on the bay last night showed that the last 2 raw & opened sets sold for an average of 570$ delivered.
Monday April 10, 2006 9:04 AM
SM1 calls me a troublemaker....
-------------------------------------------- Sunday August 19, 2007 9:17AM
Comments
JoHoNew
Just a PCGS 69/69/69.
It took all of 2 hours 2 minutes to sell with 3 other bidders, $370, $400 and the Winner.
180115188147
Did I sell too soon? Maybe.
But sometimes it's better to take 5X times now, then wait on 10X later.
<< <i>
<< <i>I do not believe that a coin with 250,000 minted will hit $600, $800 or $1000 per coin soon. >>
What did you think it would hit?
Did you think it would hit the prices it has?
PR68 RP is going for $250 on ebay (PCGS)
The PR69 RP are going for a tad more.
Raw, it is probably a $200 coin.
First strike, it is a bit more than $400+, right?
PR70 RP is a $1000+ coin (at least, in 1st strike, right?).
The MS is 470,000 strong in mintage and that is $80-$100 raw, right?
You may be surprised by these....doesn't matter how many minted, it matters the DEMAND! >>
You got it! The demand just seems to be there right now. It was mentioned in earlier observation that no one on this board seems to be buying at the current price... but keep talking about higher prices. Meaning that these sets are just seeing lots of hype and perhaps the prices are not justified and may not be maintainable. Very well could be... but I'm not totally convinced of that.
The fact that buying is occuring somewhere outside of the board members hints to me that it is the general public... the collectors. The watchers of the HSN. Yep, they could have ordered from the Mint when they were being offered.... but I think there is a large group out there that do not know how to order from the Mint, or are intimidated by it, or just don't seem to grasp the significance of some of the offerings when they are available. Then, when they see the sell job by HSN or the eBay sales, that is when they feel the urgency to get the coins.
There are a lot of ASE collectors out there. And even though there were 250,000 of these set issued, I suspect there are more collectors than sets available.
I bought a few of these as an investor; I don't see much downside at the levels they are at yet. I plan to hold for awhile and see where the wave takes me.
<< <i>It was mentioned in earlier observation that no one on this board seems to be buying at the current price >>
This weekend I purchased five more at $450 each. I see these at $800-$1200 within 12-24 months.
<< <i>I just sold a squentially numbered 20th Ann. Blue Label set for $465+$35 Shipping = $500 on a BIN this evening.
Just a PCGS 69/69/69.
It took all of 2 hours 2 minutes to sell with 3 other bidders, $370, $400 and the Winner.
180115188147
Did I sell too soon? Maybe.
But sometimes it's better to take 5X times now, then wait on 10X later. >>
I think that is good for you but I would have to say that it isn't 5x now. When I did mine, I had to factor in the fees for grading, s/h/i to and from the TPGS, and then the ebay fees.
In this case, you are probably closer to 4x what you paid which is still great! (I sold a few raw sets at $160 or so right after they came out
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>I sold a few raw sets at $160 or so right after they came out
And then you used the proceeds to buy 2006 W ASE's, Right?
I actually was one of the fools who waited thinking to do an order a little later
I did buy 3 at a local show, for $35 each when they were already going for $50 on ebay.
(but, I did also have a friend grab 10 more SAE sets for me, I still have 5 unopened ones, and gave him a proof as a thank you, which was all he wanted).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
raw sets over $550 on a consistent basis.
Now how many of you would buy them at $450?
<< <i>Well alot has changed in less than a month.
raw sets over $550 on a consistent basis.
Now how many of you would buy them at $450?
And the sealed sets are bringing $800+. Will we be talking about $12-$13k for an unopened box of 10 next month?
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>If I were a hard core ASE collector, I'd buy them at these prices as long as there were NO milkspots. I do believe that the RP is now the second most expensive coin in the entire series. >>
and that coin has yet to reach a plateau.
Sold all for a very nice profit, and kept only 3 graded ms69 20th anniversary uncs for my sets.
Do not collect proofs.
7X my original investment is good enough for me.
<< <i>You guys actually think collectors are buying these things anymore ? Seems to me that speculators are having a field day....and eventually the music will stop. >>
I actually DO think the collectors are the one buying at these prices. Except for the sealed boxes... which are probably speculators trying to capture the 70's to sell to the collectors. I think the flippers/speculators have for the most part gotten their quick gains at this point, and the bulk of the demand is now coming from the collectors scrambling to get theirs.
Maybe, if greed didn't exist.
<< <i>
I have to agree with the others, that the upside doesn't seem as great at 400-450.
( But I think I said the same about 99 silver proof sets at 200
I had similiar thoughts about the 95-W when I returned to collecting in 2001. I regret not jumping on a couple of those.
here are the latest closed ebay auctions.
Rob
San Diego, CA
<< <i>Maybe, if greed didn't exist. >>
People are so amusing. I've seen more comments on "greed" in the last month than ever before in my life. When a company makes a profit, they're not greedy. When someone buys a mutual fund or stock and holds it long-term, they are not greedy. When someone buys something, holds it, then sells it, they are not greedy.
Greed is when a billionaire gets arrested for tax evasion. Greed is when a multi-billion dollar company starts using slightly cheaper parts to squeeze out a few more million in profit. Buying a coin at $500 that you think will reach $1000 within a year is not greed...it's called "trying to make a profit." That's not greed, it's speculation. The two are worlds apart.
P.S. Look at these sets from the point of view of an ASE collector. Why in the world would anyone pay $5,000 for a 1995-W Silver Eagle? The only difference between it and a 1995-P Silver Eagle is a tiny letter on the reverse. Who honestly cares about a letter?
Why would anyone pay $500 for a 20th Anniversary set? To have the opportunity to own and enjoy a truly splendid, beautiful coin with a totally different finish--one that isn't likely to be repeated until at least 2011 (25th Anniversary). So which is it...I can buy a little letter for $5,000 or I can buy a beautiful coin with a never-before-used finish (excepting the 20th Gold, of course) for $500. To me, the decision is a no-brainer. Sure, the mintage is much higher, but I don't derive joy from looking at a number in a book, nor do I derive joy from looking at a microscopic W on the back of a coin. But I do smile every time I look at my 2006-W RP.
That's my opinion, for what little it's worth.
P.S. My bad--"I do smile every time I look at my 2006-P RP" is what I meant to say
<< <i>
<< <i>Maybe, if greed didn't exist. >>
But I do smile every time I look at my 2006-W RP.
That's my opinion, for what little it's worth. >>
2006 P RP
But who's counting. LOL
By the way I agree with your statements above.
I'm not sure why some seem to have such an aversion to anyone making a profit.... or purchasing items in the hope of making a profit
Probably the same individuals who want to take WalMart down....
Our system runs on free enterprise. There is nothing wrong with making a profit, as long as it's legal.
Today I talked with an online seller who won't be stocking anymore ASE specials. Prices have become insane (just one month later), he says, and I can kind of see that. As someone else pointed out, the luck of 70s is actually priced into 10-set cases. If there's still a lot of Judas Boxes out there, that means that all of these RPs have not been absorbed by collectors, as I think that the people who are shuffling brown boxes between each other's closets are really more speculators than ASE fans. Furthermore, with the CU price of PR70 RPs at (down to?) $1350, there's no way a 10-set box can pull $13 or $14k (unless there really are that many FS tagchasers out there).
1909 vdb / 1909 S vdb 1c
1916 / 1916 D 10c
etc, etc, etc.
<< <i>
<< <i>You guys actually think collectors are buying these things anymore ? Seems to me that speculators are having a field day....and eventually the music will stop. >>
I actually DO think the collectors are the one buying at these prices. Except for the sealed boxes... which are probably speculators trying to capture the 70's to sell to the collectors. I think the flippers/speculators have for the most part gotten their quick gains at this point, and the bulk of the demand is now coming from the collectors scrambling to get theirs. >>
I couldn't disagree more. The silver 20th anniversary set was very well known, especially after the gold set sold out so fast. Even I ordered 4 of 'em, and I live under a rock. Yet it took a fair amount of time for the silver set to finally sell out. If you were a collector of ASE, why wouldn't you have bought one back then ? Obviously, as a collector, you knew you would want/need the RP for your set, right ? Now I'm sure there are some 'new' collectors who just started liking ASE's or whatever, but I would bet dollars to donuts that the vast majority of sales going on now are from people hoping to flip/and or get a 70. As a collector, you would have had ample opportunity to order from the mint, failing that you would have had quite a while to pick one up on ebay for 2-3x issue price. You honestly think that many 'collectors' dropped the ball on the set-piece for their ase collections ? The whole ASE craze makes me think of tulips for some reason.
Mintmarks (and different dates) make a TON of difference in the coin market. I
Could that be one of the reasons that the silver reverse proof has recently gone up in price at a faster rate than the gold reverse proof?
The silver reverse proof has a distinct "P" mint mark, while the gold reverse proof has a "W", the same as the other two coins in the 3-piece set.
The silver RP is included in registry sets, the gold RP (at the moment) is not.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>You honestly think that many 'collectors' dropped the ball on the set-piece for their ase collections ? >>
Yep, I sure do. There are many people who aren't as obsessed as we are, but who still have to have the coin once they know it exists. There are many people that don't (or won't) buy directly from the Mint. And then there are some who are seeing this thing in their dealer's shop and are falling in love with it.
Overdate: I think the ASE has risen further simply because it's more affordable. I would *love* a 20th Anniversary gold set, but I just can't justify spending $6,000 on one. The silver sets are infinitely more affordable, which leaves them more room to appreciate, since they are within more people's budget.
In my opinion, here is the history of the 20th ASE market:
Flippers bail out at $80-$150 profit per coin (takes us to the $250 range).
First group of collectors buy to hold (either from the Mint at $100, or on eBay from $180-$250)
Second group of collectors (and some speculators) buy from $250 to $550
First group sees how much the coins have appreciated, and some start selling.
In other words, I think the high prices are shaking out quite a few of the coins that were bought by collectors with the intent to hold them long-term. Nobody (and I do mean nobody) predicted a 500% increase in price in six months. Faced with such capital gains, many less well-to-do collectors are selling for a large profit (the coins are now worth so much that they can no longer justify owning them). It's easy enough to own a $100 set of coins, but when they suddenly explode to $500 a set, some of us poorer folk start looking at all the bills we could use them to pay!
Zero - I am quite happy with the one set I bought from the mint for $100
At least I assume he/she is a scammer.
Found them on craigslist. Only emails at like 5 a.m. in the morning. After trading 1 email a day for several days, I asked for a phone number to speed things up.
They provide me with some crazy like this:
Yes. This is my cell phone number 040767-999-999. Please contact me if you are a serious buyer. Thank you. The 9's in the number have all been changed just so the number is not listed exactly like it was in the email. I don't want anybody getting any ideas.
After getting a 20th silver set out of the back of the Newmusmatic News for $350 last week I started to turn over lots of stones trying to track cheap sets down. That is how I stumbled onto craigslist.
O well. I am done looking. I just thought it was funny, did this person really think I would call a cell number like that?
Rob
I have not sold any of mine. I have been tempted ever since they crossed the $200 mark... but for some reason just have not done so. I'll admit I do not have a magic crystal ball.... so who knows? We each have to make our own decisions based on what our best guess is.
My take on it.... I am not a buyer at the prices they are bringing now. However, I do not think there is that much downside at this point (unless the economy tanks, etc... in which everything tends to tank along with it)
<< <i>...it just seems to me that there was A LOT of time to get a set if you wanted it as a collector....not to flip in a week or month. >>
That's because of the limits. It was the same way with the '99 Silver proof sets.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>
<< <i>...it just seems to me that there was A LOT of time to get a set if you wanted it as a collector....not to flip in a week or month. >>
That's because of the limits. It was the same way with the '99 Silver proof sets. >>
Yes, I bought 6 '99s from the mint and now the price has "flattened out" @ $325-$350/set.
Time to sell.
<<How Many Would Purchase today at $450?>>
Seems that the average sale of this set keeps creeping up, checking on completed sales on the bay last night showed that the last 2 raw & opened sets sold for an average of 570$ delivered.
SM1 calls me a troublemaker....
--------------------------------------------
Sunday August 19, 2007 9:17AM
A mentor awarded " YOU SUCK!!"
<< <i>I think the RP PCGS 69s will go through the roof. $1000+ but I'm not going to start buying them cause my crystal ball is hazy too. >>
I hope my crystal ball is not defective. I just bought 6 NGC 69 reverse proofs in the hopes that they will.
I wagered $319 each.