<< <i>Beckett, at least, seems to have this figured out; while the vintage stuff will eventually dry up, or come close enough to drying up such that it will be hard to keep the revenue numbers steady within the next 5 years or so, the modern stuff offers a ceaseless stream of new cards. THAT's where they should focus their attention, IMO, but they show no interest in doing so. >>
I agree that vintage, defined as pre -1960 or so is close to "drying up" (but there is still plenty of raw collections out there) ,but there are still pallets of unopened 70's material to be circulated . Many will continue to crack out the same cards to get bumps and people will crack out cards to have a "doctor" do so some work on them ...like Mastro. Cards will also continue to be reholdered for purpose of deceiving bidders as to the origin of such cards. As long as a profit can be turned people will continue to submit and ways of turning the profit will become more creative and more technologically "advanced". Beyond that, perhaps PSA is already attempting to insulate themselves with the price increase for a standard grading service.
As far as grading modern or new stuff I'm not sure if that will ever take off, the "need" for grading cards pulled by consumers straight from packs doesn't seem to be as strong as the want. And the want for what ? Speaking for myself why would you grade new cards unless it's the next big rookie ? >>
I think there are probably different avenues in grading that haven't been fully explored yet. There are a ton of relatively small--but scarce-- insert and parallel sets that I think people would probably enjoy having slabbed if it ever occured to them to do so, for instance. And, like you said there is a new stream of hot new RC's every year for each sport, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.
<< <i> For the ease of looking - I like thumbing thru cardsavers myself - tho not has protective as one of these holders. >>
I've noticed that a lot of you guys seem to use Cardsavers for inviividual cards. Not just to submit them for grading, but for long term storage.
At the risk of steering this a bit OT, doesn't anyone else use toploaders for singles or am I the only one? I see lots of guys mentioning albums with 9 pocket sheets and Cardsavers as alternatives for less expensive stuff not in slabs. Am I tho only one with multiple 2 row shoeboxes full of singles in penny sleeves inside of toploaders?
<< <i> For the ease of looking - I like thumbing thru cardsavers myself - tho not has protective as one of these holders. >>
I've noticed that a lot of you guys seem to use Cardsavers for inviividual cards. Not just to submit them for grading, but for long term storage.
At the risk of steering this a bit OT, doesn't anyone else use toploaders for singles or am I the only one? I see lots of guys mentioning albums with 9 pocket sheets and Cardsavers as alternatives for less expensive stuff not in slabs. Am I tho only one with multiple 2 row shoeboxes full of singles in penny sleeves inside of toploaders? >>
I have used top loaders for over 20 years and still have all my misc. star singles (1972-1985) in top loaders. The more "valuable" ones I include a penny sleeve as well. I have read collectors having problems with top loaders causing damage but I have never seen that to be the case. I don't, however, jostle these cards around and just keep them in the two row shoeboxes, as they have been safely for two decades. For all of the more modern stars (1983-1989), I just throw them in those plastic boxes. I have probably 20-30 of these (usually 25 count) full of cards and I guess they keep alright, but I really don't care much.
I have had occasional toploaders turn yellow (often, it's ones that I know have spent time in display cases, so there may be some correlation with the lighting they were exposed to there.) Every card I have in a toploader is also in a penny sleeve. All of my cards in screwdowns have a penny, as well.
Most of the cards I have in toploaders and shoeboxes are ones I placed in them sometime between 1990 and 94. I have 7 like that, in total. It's a nice way to flip through and look. I just took a quick run through them last night to find anything that I might eventually submit.
As for the original question, I can see the point. It would be an epic undertaking to try and assemble much more than one full scale set largely via submisions. Like detriotfan2, I'm a buyer rather than a submitter (thus far), so I'm largely out of the mix for this question. Add to that the fact that I'm much more of a player/team/stars & demi-stars kind of collector, and you see that my interests lie in basically collecting like I used to in my single buying days, just with the added benefit of going for higher quality third party graded cards.
I'll keep buying stuff from the two sets I have listed in my sig. but I never want this to seem less like fun and more like work. Discipline is cool, but single mindedness really isn't.
<< <i>1) Silly as it may sound, I like the protection that graded holders provide. Nothing is indestructable, but no other storage means will keep your cards safer in the very long term >>
Detroitfan, I completely agree with this sentiment. It was the first thing I thought when reading this thread.
<< <i>At the risk of steering this a bit OT, doesn't anyone else use toploaders for singles or am I the only one? I see lots of guys mentioning albums with 9 pocket sheets and Cardsavers as alternatives for less expensive stuff not in slabs. Am I tho only one with multiple 2 row shoeboxes full of singles in penny sleeves inside of toploaders? >>
I DO, I have a 75, 76, 78 topps sets in penny sleeves and toploaders stored in shoeboxes. I found this to offer the best protection for the cards.... I am just not a big fan of 9 pocket pages in binders... I admit it is a nice way to view your sets, but I have had cards that were damaged while in binders...
<< <i>Thanks Stone. I looked at their website but didn't see where you could buy just the holder. Do you know where you can buy them? Also, it was interesting that I recognized them from my coin collecting days. AH doesn't have a good reputation with some collectors. I had no idea they were involved with sports cards. >>
Bb
I had this from my old days - they don't sell'm anymore to my knowledge - I think he no longer has control over the patent?
I'm putting together all the Topps Minnesota Twins team sets (with league leaders and multi player cards) which go back to 1961 and putting these "crisp near mint cards in binders". I've got all of the 1970 to present done minus a couple cards and have a big jump on the late 60's. All were purchased raw and mostly from the other venue. I picked up just a few cards at shows mainly because I usually have to drive 300 miles for a good show. There are plenty of unaltered NM cards out there to buy. Some of my raw purchases could even end up in PSA 9 holders but most would be in the 7 to low end 8 range (probably what is left over from cherry picked sets). You do have to deal with some garbage from time to time when buying raw cards namely overgrading. I usually just thow the duds in a pile and sell them as a lot once every six months or so. If I'm in a bad mood and streak I might ask for a refund. I've been extremely conservative with my bids and have picked up many commons and semi-stars for a buck or two. If I lose an auction I simply wait for the next. I've learned which sellers grade fair, which ones are selling cherry picked cards, which ones overgrade, etc. I basically now only bid on a card described as MINT, NRMT/MT, NRMT+, or whatever varient as most cards are likely grade a bit lower even from many good sellers. This gives me a general NRMT set with some lucky hi grade cards mixed in. Perhaps when my project is done I will send the hi-grade ones to PSA for slabs which might yield some profit to begin another project. Hopefully my master team set will get done this summer minus a couple of big cards then scans are certain to follow for all you Twins fans. I may very well pick up the big cards like the 62 and 63 Killebrew along with the 67 Carew rookie in PSA 7 holders to assure they are in the condition I desire. I could throw fillers of those cards in my binder. This is what the grading service is all about, assurance the card is in a the condition desired.
"One you start thinking you're the best then you might as well quit because you wont get any better" - Dale Earnhardt
The more I think about this, the more excited I get. This week, I am going to start completing my favorite raw sets or at least, put them in new sheets and binders. Here's my plan:
1967 Topps: I have about half of the cards for this set but no stars. This will be a great looking set.
1968 Topps: I have about 1/3 of the cards but no stars. Except for the Ryan, should be fairly inexpensive to do.
1970 Topps: Complete set, just need to get them in new sheets.
1971 Topps: I think I have a complete set but I doubt it. Need to inventory what I have and get them in new sheets.
1972 Topps: This will be a new set as I only have a handful of cards.
1969 Topps Football: I think I have a complete set, need to check.
1970 Topps Football: I know I have a complete set.
The cards that I do have are not that good of a condition, generally VG-EX to NM with most falling in the Ex/Ex-Mt. That doesn't bother me a bit for as long as the cards are not beaters, they will all look good in the sheets.
I did check eBay amd I see there are tons of options to buy raw card lots of these years for cheap. This will be fun, thanks for bringing this up and getting me back to the old days when I used to do this.
I try to buy lots of cards now........... I just picked up 12 1960 Topps PSA 7 commons for a little less than $7 bucks each. It's like getting the card for free. It's a buyer's market....... at least on Feebay.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Beckett, at least, seems to have this figured out; while the vintage stuff will eventually dry up, or come close enough to drying up such that it will be hard to keep the revenue numbers steady within the next 5 years or so, the modern stuff offers a ceaseless stream of new cards. THAT's where they should focus their attention, IMO, but they show no interest in doing so. >>
I agree that vintage, defined as pre -1960 or so is close to "drying up" (but there is still plenty of raw collections out there) ,but there are still pallets of unopened 70's material to be circulated .
Many will continue to crack out the same cards to get bumps and people will crack out cards to have a "doctor" do so some work on them ...like Mastro. Cards will also continue to be reholdered for purpose of deceiving bidders as to the origin of such cards. As long as a profit can be turned people will continue to submit and ways of turning the profit will become more creative and more technologically "advanced". Beyond that, perhaps PSA is already attempting to insulate themselves with the price increase for a standard grading service.
As far as grading modern or new stuff I'm not sure if that will ever take off, the "need" for grading cards pulled by consumers straight from packs doesn't seem to be as strong as the want. And the want for what ? Speaking for myself why would you grade new cards unless it's the next big rookie ? >>
I think there are probably different avenues in grading that haven't been fully explored yet. There are a ton of relatively small--but scarce-- insert and parallel sets that I think people would probably enjoy having slabbed if it ever occured to them to do so, for instance. And, like you said there is a new stream of hot new RC's every year for each sport, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.
///////////////////////////////////////
I might be a customer, but I doubt PSA could do
the job for only $1.00 per card.
<< <i> For the ease of looking - I like thumbing thru cardsavers myself - tho not has protective as one of these holders. >>
I've noticed that a lot of you guys seem to use Cardsavers for inviividual cards. Not just to submit them for grading, but for long term storage.
At the risk of steering this a bit OT, doesn't anyone else use toploaders for singles or am I the only one? I see lots of guys mentioning albums with 9 pocket sheets and Cardsavers as alternatives for less expensive stuff not in slabs. Am I tho only one with multiple 2 row shoeboxes full of singles in penny sleeves inside of toploaders?
I have a bunch of sets like you mention (in toploaders) my 55 topps baseball sans the HOF's is just like that as are some non sports sets that I own.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i> For the ease of looking - I like thumbing thru cardsavers myself - tho not has protective as one of these holders. >>
I've noticed that a lot of you guys seem to use Cardsavers for inviividual cards. Not just to submit them for grading, but for long term storage.
At the risk of steering this a bit OT, doesn't anyone else use toploaders for singles or am I the only one? I see lots of guys mentioning albums with 9 pocket sheets and Cardsavers as alternatives for less expensive stuff not in slabs. Am I tho only one with multiple 2 row shoeboxes full of singles in penny sleeves inside of toploaders? >>
I have used top loaders for over 20 years and still have all my misc. star singles (1972-1985) in top loaders. The more "valuable" ones I include a penny sleeve as well. I have read collectors having problems with top loaders causing damage but I have never seen that to be the case. I don't, however, jostle these cards around and just keep them in the two row shoeboxes, as they have been safely for two decades. For all of the more modern stars (1983-1989), I just throw them in those plastic boxes. I have probably 20-30 of these (usually 25 count) full of cards and I guess they keep alright, but I really don't care much.
Most of the cards I have in toploaders and shoeboxes are ones I placed in them sometime between 1990 and 94. I have 7 like that, in total. It's a nice way to flip through and look. I just took a quick run through them last night to find anything that I might eventually submit.
As for the original question, I can see the point. It would be an epic undertaking to try and assemble much more than one full scale set largely via submisions. Like detriotfan2, I'm a buyer rather than a submitter (thus far), so I'm largely out of the mix for this question. Add to that the fact that I'm much more of a player/team/stars & demi-stars kind of collector, and you see that my interests lie in basically collecting like I used to in my single buying days, just with the added benefit of going for higher quality third party graded cards.
I'll keep buying stuff from the two sets I have listed in my sig. but I never want this to seem less like fun and more like work. Discipline is cool, but single mindedness really isn't.
<< <i>1) Silly as it may sound, I like the protection that graded holders provide. Nothing is indestructable, but no other storage means will keep your cards safer in the very long term >>
Detroitfan, I completely agree with this sentiment. It was the first thing I thought when reading this thread.
<< <i>At the risk of steering this a bit OT, doesn't anyone else use toploaders for singles or am I the only one? I see lots of guys mentioning albums with 9 pocket sheets and Cardsavers as alternatives for less expensive stuff not in slabs. Am I tho only one with multiple 2 row shoeboxes full of singles in penny sleeves inside of toploaders? >>
I DO, I have a 75, 76, 78 topps sets in penny sleeves and toploaders stored in shoeboxes. I found this to offer the best protection for the cards.... I am just not a big fan of 9 pocket pages in binders... I admit it is a nice way to view your sets, but I have had cards that were damaged while in binders...
<< <i>Thanks Stone. I looked at their website but didn't see where you could buy just the holder. Do you know where you can buy them? Also, it was interesting that I recognized them from my coin collecting days. AH doesn't have a good reputation with some collectors. I had no idea they were involved with sports cards. >>
Bb
I had this from my old days - they don't sell'm anymore to my knowledge - I think he no longer has control over the patent?
mike
1967 Topps: I have about half of the cards for this set but no stars. This will be a great looking set.
1968 Topps: I have about 1/3 of the cards but no stars. Except for the Ryan, should be fairly inexpensive to do.
1970 Topps: Complete set, just need to get them in new sheets.
1971 Topps: I think I have a complete set but I doubt it. Need to inventory what I have and get them in new sheets.
1972 Topps: This will be a new set as I only have a handful of cards.
1969 Topps Football: I think I have a complete set, need to check.
1970 Topps Football: I know I have a complete set.
The cards that I do have are not that good of a condition, generally VG-EX to NM with most falling in the Ex/Ex-Mt. That doesn't bother me a bit for as long as the cards are not beaters, they will all look good in the sheets.
I did check eBay amd I see there are tons of options to buy raw card lots of these years for cheap. This will be fun, thanks for bringing this up and getting me back to the old days when I used to do this.