THINK.... before you dismiss kids at coin shows
BadgerRay
Posts: 47
A tirade follows........
I attended a small coin show today in Owatonna, MN and observed a young (future of the hobby) coin collector a boy of about 10 approach a dealers table and ask "how much is this worth?" as he held out a 1941-19?? Whitman Lincoln cent album with 20 or so empty holes. At least two times I saw this shy kid approach dealer's tables. The response I observed was frankly embarrassing to this hobby. To quote one dealer, "Not interested kid those are only worth at most three cents a piece". Now I might be able to understand this somewhat if the dealer was heavily involved in some multiple hundred dollar transaction when approached but this was not the case. This kid patiently waited for his turn then was treated like he didn't matter.
To me this kid and many like him are the future of this hobby! In the sport card collecting industry when the card markers priced the kids out of there business they woke up one day to find that their business didn't matter to many any more. If you lose the kids you lose the future of this hobby. If you're given the chance please support all the 10 year old shy future coin collectors you can. These dealers should be reaching into their bargain bins and helping the kid fill the holes in his wheat cent album not discouraging them.
O.K..........thanks for allowing me to vent my frustrations.....
Ray
ON WISCONSIN!!!
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Comments
Poor kid too.
I would have pitched a fit and threw my soda in the dealer's face.
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I travel. A LOT. I've taken to carrying Proof American Silver Eagles with me and they are my "Got me out of a jam" gift to people. I've given a few away so far and it's my experience that whatever they cost me is NOTHING compared to the reactions I've gotten from giving them away.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>The hard slap of coin dealer reality!!! Wait until his dad wants to sell all the Franklin Mint crap he bought in the 70s!!! >>
There's a smart way and a dumb way to sell that crap. The smart way involves some work hyping the low mintages vs. US Mint NCLT modern crap but can be much more profitable. The situation is similar to classic commems in the 80s and SCDs now. Without the HK book and NGC slabbing SCDs, you'd be selling SCDs the "dumb way"
"I am sorry you are unhappy with the care you recieved, is their anything I can do for you right now, how about some high speed lead therapy?" - A qoute from my wife's nursing forum
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." – Thomas Jefferson
I can't tell you how many times I've heard "You can't afford that" or "Don't waste my time asking prices on coins you can't buy"
Though some dealers are very kind and help ya out...most just look past kids as a purchasing power.
Its at those times that I like to pull out a wad of cash, flip through some hundreds and buy a coin from them with a $20 that costs about 10 cents.
They don't seem to think Im that funny though
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
You should out those dealers. I won't tolerate that type of behavior. I would go to the show promoter to complain. And then I would get in the dealers face. They should be put out of business since they are happy to destroy the future of my hobby. And they're mean to kids...we don't need those type of curmudgeons in this hobby.
Here in Northern California, the dealers at the shows are great to kids, and the YN programs are strong. My daughter loves going to the shows, and usually comes home with $50-$100 worth of freebies. We don't see those kinds of attitudes, and good for the dealers, because they would be confronted there, and I would happily out them on this forum. They get what they deserve.
And thenks to all of the dealers at the shows here, they are the best!
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>
Its at those times that I like to pull out a wad of cash, flip through some hundreds and buy a coin from them with a $20 that costs about 10 cents.
They don't seem to think Im that funny though >>
I've done that before. It feels GREAT!
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<< <i>This is the case with almost any young collector.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard "You can't afford that" or "Don't waste my time asking prices on coins you can't buy"
Though some dealers are very kind and help ya out...most just look past kids as a purchasing power.
Its at those times that I like to pull out a wad of cash, flip through some hundreds and buy a coin from them with a $20 that costs about 10 cents.
They don't seem to think Im that funny though >>
Really? I'm a young collector and I've never heard that. Maybe I should go to more shows more often...
What's the point? People are the way they are. You will not change them, and it does not matter. The kids that want to collect will collect.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>This is the case with almost any young collector.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard "You can't afford that" >>
A local coin shop did that to me. I asked to see some slider Morgans. I was told "sorry, these are out of your price range". They were common date ones I wanted to fill my album holes with.
I kept my money and went to another dealer to spend it. Never have I went back to that store. They lost a customer for life.
Positive BST: WhiteThunder (x2), Ajaan, onefasttalon, mirabela, Wizard1, cucamongacoin, mccardguy1
Negative BST: NONE!
I laugh when I get treated like I don't have 2 cents to rub together.
Their loss.
I think I was 14 (2001) when I went to my first show. I think I saved $80 for it, which for me at the time was an enormous amount to spend on coins. I couldn't believe my eyes when I entered; there were hundreds of tables. I did come prepared though, although now it's laughable at how prepared I really was. Anyway, I was a huge Indian Cent fan at the time. I only needed to fill 5 holes in my collection (and yes I didn't have the 1877 or 09-S) so I scowered dealer junk bins and thier low grade albums for affordable fillers (G-VG grade). At the end of the show I filled 3 of those holes and only paid for 1 of them.
From my experience, I think if you are young and are going to go to a coin show, you need to be somewhat prepared. Dealers have been extremely generous to me and that is why I too give as much support to YN's as possible. Now I don't think that any of those dealers should have shyed away from this kid. One dealer should have opened up to him and given him atleast $10 for the set (I would have done that).
There's my Two Cents
First, you never really know how much buying power a child actually represents...whether now or in the future. I have 2 young teenagers who are some of my best regular customers. Stop by every show and always buy something...and their Dads too.
Keep in mind that when you deal with the young person there is a parent nearby...it does matter how you treat their child. I'm not saying to be phony, by any means.
Also, in the future...when you want to retire and sell your coins...if there are no young people coming into the hobby now...who, exactly will want our coins in 20, 30 or 50 years? ....Who will we share our hobby with...associating with young minds helps to keep older minds young!!!
I have had young children come to my table looking for "a nice shiny red penny or two" ... I have taken the time to show them my coins and let them handle them...showing them proper coin etiquette...even going so far as to give them a pair of cotton gloves to handle coins at home. I may make a sale of $1 or maybe $10...not the point...another young person has been PROPERLY introduced to the hobby.
...and more than once, I have earned two new customers...the child AND the parent who truly appreciated the golden treatment shown to their child...
Personally, I would LOVE to be a dealer at a show and have a kid come up to me with questions. I think I'd enjoy it more than the kid.
-Paul
Another thought on this.........
I wonder if when a first time visitor/collector comes in a store(or approaches a table at a coin show) and has coins that they are interested in selling if it would not be a great idea as the dealer to not just brush them off but to buy something/anything even a small item. Not always just occasionally......
When I travel on business or vacation I go to stores (or shows) in other cities and areas of the country often time with coins I am somewhat interested in selling. Sometimes the same coins that are dismissed as junk or bullion or "not interested" are then purchased down the street at the next coin shop (or table) sometimes minutes later.
I realize that this is the old one man's junk another man's treasure but..... on a return trip when I am interested in selling or buying which shop(or table) will I visit (stop at)???
HMMMMMMMMMMMM...........
Ray
ON WISCONSIN!!!
-Paul
<< <i>Some one else posted that their kid has a $20 a week coin budget, plus extra because he is skipping lunch. That is $1000 a year, and that's for a young kid. Teenagers have more money than ever, if they come from an upper middle class family, and/or have a part time job. Some of them think nothing of blowing a couple hundred or more on a weekend trip or other luxury items. >>
I'm a younger collector, and I guess you could call me a part-time dealer. I sold some coins, wheeled and dealed, and took $1,000 to the Charlotte ANA show.
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">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
This is an important story. Not because it shows that there are some bad dealers out there, but because it illustrates that there are some INCREDIBLY STUPID dealers out there. Any halfway intelligent dealer would understand that an offering of 21 and 21-D Mercury Dimes is NOT A RANDOM OFFERING. To try to buy the coins as common on the shot that the kid doesn't know what he has is JUST PLAIN STUPID, a long shot at best. The point is that this business has a VERY VERY LOW bar to entry. So kids, don't give it too much thought when an IDIOT takes a shot at you. Just move on and enjoy the day.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i> Another thing that should be said about this is that it is so easy to take advantage of a kid. Granted, the dealer is a fool for doing this, but it still happens. The first show I went to, I took along 2 mercury dimes. They were a 1921 and 21-D, both AG. Nothing terribly expensive, but worth about $50 for the pair. I went up to one dealer and he said they were common dates and he would pay 55 cents a piece for them. I of course knew better and immediately left his table and I will NEVER buy from him or sell anything to him EVER. If I wouldn't have known better, he would have gotten away with it, and I wouldn't have been the wiser. Now adays, I drop thousands of dollars at shows, and not a cent will ever see his table. Was it worth it, basically trying to steal my $50 coins, and missing out on the money I now spend at shows? Probably not.
This is an important story. Not because it shows that there are some bad dealers out there, but because it illustrates that there are some INCREDIBLY STUPID dealers out there. Any halfway intelligent dealer would understand that an offering of 21 and 21-D Mercury Dimes is NOT A RANDOM OFFERING. To try to buy the coins as common on the shot that the kid doesn't know what he has is JUST PLAIN STUPID, a long shot at best. The point is that this business has a VERY VERY LOW bar to entry. So kids, don't give it too much thought when an IDIOT takes a shot at you. Just move on and enjoy the day. >>
That's a very good point. There are lowlifes in all walks of life, even when the barrier to entry is considerably higher. One should not judge an entire avocation or profession by the worst of the group. (Unless we are talking about lawyers, of course...
Once at the FUN show in Orlando, he saw something that caught his interest and he asked the dealer about it.
That dealer spent at least 10 minutes explaining the minting process and then how a railroad rim error can occur, in a way a boy can understand.
The dealer?
Bob Campbell.
At the time he was ANA President.
Ray
So dealers note, it is simply good practice to indulge YN's..because they have parents who might buy from you. And also a warning...again, YN's have parents...so if you're rude or mean to them, then you have to deal with the parents. If someone is mean to my kid, I make sure they never forget it, and that they hesitate the next time they do something so stupid. it's called being protective.
But again, at the shows up here, I have never had cause to complain.
I was 13 so I always had money to spend. My parents encouraged me to buy coins. In those days I would take the bus from New Jersey and walk from the Port
Authority to save a subway fare. My parents would allow me the 30 minute commute with a friend. Today no parent in their right mind would allow a kid to do this.
I wondered over to the silver dollar counter and told the sales associate I was interested in purchasing a 1921
Peace dollar. He looked at me like I was crazy and I was going to waste his time. He brought over a few circulated
coins. I told him I was interested in the best 1921 he had. I pulled out my wad of money and he became real
serious. They had around 4 1921's in 63+ condition and I looked at them with my loupe. Only when he knew
I was going to buy from him did he become serious. In all fairness to him he did not try to take advantage of me
and he was very helpful and informative and he steered me to what he thought was the nicest coin for the price.
I finally wound up buying the second most expensive 1921 they had. It cost me $250, a lot of money back then for a coin.
It's still raw, I'm guessing it's a 64 PQ or 65.
I came back to Stacks around three weeks later and I got the red carpet treatment from the staff. I remember
buying an 1891CC for $200, which I still have today ungraded.
I've had multiple experiences like this when I was a kid. People wrongly assume that kids or poorly dressed people
don't have money.
Bruce
But I think the best thing to do is frequent a coin show several times and let the dealers get to know you. That way they get familiar with your buying power. I'm not rich but I do from time to time spend several hundred dollars on coins and in the future I plan on spending much more and I'll remember the dealers who did not leave a good impression the first time around.
Dealers remember: YNs grow up!
I used to buy and sell sports cards and memorabilia; I started when I was 15, I hosted my first baseball card show (with HOF Robin Roberts from the Phillies) when i was 18. Mom loaned me the money for his appearance fee and airfare. I rented out the conference room at the local days Inn, sold out 60 tables and had 1000 people walk through the door.
Other card dealers actually gave me a lot of respect. I was one of the only dealers who would actually TRADE cards, a long forgotten art. The kids loved it, the parents loved that fact that someone was treating them nice; AND they became repeat customers at future shows or at my flea market booth. Bottom line is treat everyone nice cause you never know who has that wad of cash in their pocket.
<< <i>I remember walking into Stacks in 1972 when I was 14. I began working in the summer and after school when
I was 13 so I always had money to spend. My parents encouraged me to buy coins. In those days I would take the bus from New Jersey and walk from the Port
Authority to save a subway fare. My parents would allow me the 30 minute commute with a friend. Today no parent in their right mind would allow a kid to do this.
I wondered over to the silver dollar counter and told the sales associate I was interested in purchasing a 1921
Peace dollar. He looked at me like I was crazy and I was going to waste his time. He brought over a few circulated
coins. I told him I was interested in the best 1921 he had. I pulled out my wad of money and he became real
serious. They had around 4 1921's in 63+ condition and I looked at them with my loupe. Only when he knew
I was going to buy from him did he become serious. In all fairness to him he did not try to take advantage of me
and he was very helpful and informative and he steered me to what he thought was the nicest coin for the price.
I finally wound up buying the second most expensive 1921 they had. It cost me $250, a lot of money back then for a coin.
It's still raw, I'm guessing it's a 64 PQ or 65.
I came back to Stacks around three weeks later and I got the red carpet treatment from the staff. I remember
buying an 1891CC for $200, which I still have today ungraded.
I've had multiple experiences like this when I was a kid. People wrongly assume that kids or poorly dressed people
don't have money.
Bruce >>
Just proves the old saying - "Never Judge A Book By Its Cover!"
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>Many dealers have no problem treating adults like garbage >>
I'm 33 and have been tossed out with yesterday's macaroni salad so many times from local brick n mortar dealers there is only one of the dozen or so in Baltimore I will buy from. And I even think he has it in for me!
I'm helping a coworker's son with one of his merit badges right now. It's so gratifying. I just hope he gets the bug and some positive experiences out of it.
My Odds&Ends eBay Stuff to fuel my coin habit (No Coins)
They are the future; you are correct, Sir. jws
<< <i>It's Really just all a carnival atmosphere. Think about it!
hence the need for a shower afterwords...
You are right. We should all treat kids interested with respect.
I normally try to give them a cehap coin out of my bargin bin when they approach..normally with dad.
it's a great ice breaker, and sometimes turns into a good sale, either more for teh kid out of the bargin box or something for dad!
We NEED to keep more people interested in the hobby, or it will be gone!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
First of all, here is a 10 year old wanting to SELL his collection? At least that is what he is implying...His Dad should of at least given him a resonable value of his collection, we all do........I mean how many of us have given a starter collection, and the kid ask's , "well how much is this worth?" well, we, or at least a price guide/ebay can give him a resonable quote...
I feel a YN wanting to SELL or at least valuate his collection......He had a 1941- present? I figure he has had his fingers all over them or at least he doesnt have the accolode of paying top dollare for pieces to fit into his album, the dealers quote is about right...
I dont like to see a YN wanting to sell his collection.....He /She should be collecting for the lang haul.....I never took my collection to a dealer or show...
In this day and age , you should have an idea. I blame the dad./parent.
And I blame the original poster of this thread. Why would you FOLLOW around a YN, and see him supposedly mis-treated by dealers, and YOU did not step up to the plate YOURSELF and assist him??????????? Hmmmmmmmmm...........
BTW- any YN looking to FILL his/her album , I am sure is treated like gold 99% time, we all want to help them collect, but once they want to SELL. I feel its another matter all together...
As pointed out in other responses here, its about collecting, rarely selling ...that we have great expiereances with dealers....Dealers love collectors....it's the sellars we have to snap back to reality
Excellent point!
And you did nothing, And That's more embarrissing than what the dealers did, you contributed NOTHING !! That's sad.....
Team up with some of the larger dealers or auction houses and present a program in a fun and informative way that will inspire kids to pursue this field in a positive manner. I'm talking about kids, pre-teenagers, as that is where hobbies tend to be born, in the fertile mind of a young boy or girl who are fascinated by grandpa's enthusiastic approach to coins, or who stumble across their father's coin collection and say "Wow" what are those dad? The effort today would pay off ten-fold tomorrow in brand loyalty as a kids will actually want to go back to coins shows if their first visit was fun and as they grow older they will remember those who encouraged them which equates to a loyal customer for years to come.
To simply brush off a kid because he or she is just that, a kid, is a shame to the hobby.
<< <i>One should not judge an entire avocation or profession by the worst of the group. (Unless we are talking about lawyers, of course...
Excellent point!
Just wondering what % would be the worst of the group. Seems to be everywhere. Also, it sure seems to be a big "Group."
Although the vast majority of younger collectors do not have a large financial budget, it is irresponsible for dealers and other collectors alike to make a blanket assumption that everybody who is young (or looks young) does not have much money to spend. You never know who is financially "backing" some of those youngsters.
Some forum members can attest to the fact that to some people I look young for my age. I have attended hundreds of coin shows since 1998 all over the country, and some of the comments and actions I have experienced firsthand are absolutely revolting and offensive. But with all this said, there are plenty of dealers and collectors who are wonderful role models and mentors to younger aspiring numismatists.
Are young people perpetually poor? Maybe, but there are exceptions. Case in point...a former employee of mine (who was in high school at the time she was employed by me) had a savings account in the six figures. That's impressive even for a professional careered adult.
Here is a link for the newer members of a thread I posted a while ago about some of the real life comments I've been subjected to over the years. Stupid Things...
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
It would be alot less than your drinking problem.... I would think the rude dealers to YN collectors would be about 4%, if that......I wouldn't expect any dealers really, only if you caught them in a very rare mood..
Unlike yours, which is what %??
<< <i>stman
It would be alot less than your drinking problem.... I would think the rude dealers to YN collectors would be about 4%, if that......I wouldn't expect any dealers really, only if you caught them in a very rare mood..
Unlike yours, which is what %?? >>
Hey ummmm BlindTiger...... Whatever you said how bout FOAD.
Edit to add, FYI.... I don't drink. I'm this way naturally. Say what I feel like saying and move on.