Dropped Out of the Registry Race

merz2

I've just deleted my Registry Set.I wish all the other Registry owners luck and the very best.I do this with sadness but resolve,in protest to the obvious lack of gradeing skills or takeing the time to properly grade the submissions.The grades that have come out lately shows this as far as I'm concerned.Also the bad decisions comeing from management hasn't helped.

Keyrock

Don,

sorry to see you go, hopefully you'll stay on the boards and you'll be back. I'd miss your insight into the copper world.

Rich

Fairlaneman

Damn Don: Is there not some way to get through to PCGS and find out exactly what the problem has been for the last 6 to 8 months when it comes to submissions from Collectors. The Registry Sets are just too much fun with all of the Fine people you meet and talk to. To see this all go away would be a real shame. Maybe a Poll on the Coin Forumn might help ? They still do monitor these Forumns. Take Care: Ken

merz2

I will remain on the boards.I just won't be submitting any more coins to PCGS and can't in good concious remain part of the Registry Sets.If PCGS has been monitoring this board and the US Coin Forum,they should have done something or at least addressed this issue long ago.It appears PCGS no longer cares about Collectors Club members and what they think.I only hope they wake up soon!!!

Dabigkahuna

Don,
I am sorry to hear this. It is a shame that you feel forced into such a drastic course. I know that this is not a spur of the moment decision but please reconsider. I have always considered your input as being very level headed and it has made this hobby much more enjoyable than it would have been otherwise.


Larry
Dabigkahuna

ModMan

Sorry to see you decide to do what you did. I guess I can't blame you. Maybe there is a way for PCGS to "Make this Right" and you can once again enter the Registry.
I bet hitting that final "are you sure you want to delete this set?" botton was a tough decision.

fantasiize

Don,

Sorry to see you take the action that you felt was appropriate. Glad you will stay on the boards ...


ModMan,

You feeling ok ?? Was that a sentimental/sensitive post ??

dpoole

Don,

I respect your decision here. This Registry business is dynamic, and will change its complexion a bunch over time, I'm convinced. I'm sure there will be people sharing your feelings and coming and going with the Registry. Will be interesting to see where it all ends up.

Very glad to know you'll stick around the Boards.

PTVETTER

I am sad to see you take you set off the registry!! I would hope that PCGS could should and would contract you. Again I understand your position, and ask you to reconsider.

Your friend
Pat Vetter

BillHarkey

Don, I feel your pain. I myself submitted a few kennedy's that I thought were deep Cam, but lo and behold, PCGS in thier infinite wisdom, graded just ONE CAM, and the others just proofs. Not to mention the other kennedy halfs I hand picked, and came back MS63 or MS64. I too, have deleted my registry set, and PCGS will not be getting another $99 for the membership next year!! I think their graders need to loosen up the EXTREMELY high standards!!!

Sorry to see you go. You are a real expert on lincolns, and I hate to see you lose faith in the powers that be, but I CAN'T BLAME YOU!!!!

Thanx for all you have done for me, and for being on the boards, and for the nice long chat we had. See you on the boards....

Chippewa

I share your feelings. I quit the Collectors Club after one year due to my belief, right or wrong, that I was not being treated the same as the dealers.

cosmicdebris

Don it is a shame that you had to delete your set and I am glad you are sticking around. How many others out there would be willing to delete their sets to show Don some support and give PCGS a wakeup call? Don I say yours is a noble gesture we need more people like like you willing to stand up for what is right.

gary

I knew something had to be wrong this past six months with my submissions,so sent in 6 coins that were from ebay power brokers.They graded pf69dc before cracking,came back pf68dc,so no more submissions for me!.......I GUESS IF A BIG CORP IS LOOSEING MONEY ON SMALL SUBMISSIONS THEN RUN THEM OFF AND MAKE SPECIAL DEALS ON 100 OR 1000 PLUS COIN SUBMISSIONS.......gary

cosmicdebris

While I did not delete ( still debating about the last 2 ) all my sets I just deleted 6 of them. So now there are only 1770 sets registered.

Fairlaneman

How about in the Set Description putting some sort of Note asking PCGS what the heck the problem is. Might get through to them,then might just be Ignored.

clevegreg

Don,

Sorry to hear about your decision. It is all of of our loss not to have your set included in the Registry, but even more so for PCGS. I have had the same experience recently in my last few proof coin submissions with low grades and lack of cameo designations. Out of 15 coins sent in this past month, only 2 came back as CAM, and the highest grade was a PF67. Pretty sad.

Greg

billywls

Don--

I can certainly sympathize with your feelings on grading. I've completely given up on raw submissions. It gets my blood pressure up too high. I've decided on crosses its a revenue issue. Enough resubmissions and they all cross ( except ICG, of course). I wish they would simple charge $150 per coin and be done with it.

Obviously a lot of people feel badly that you felt pulling you set from the registry was the appropriate response but everyone respects your decision. I wish I could be optimistic that it will have any impact on PCGS.

I'm glad your not giving up the enjoyment and comradery of the board. If you decide later you miss the fun of the registry just put your set back up. My guess is PCGS won't give a toot either way.

CarlWohlforth

Don, you feel strongly enough to delete your set but still remain calm and polite in your posts. I admire that restraint.

I guess one good thing about not being a good grader is I find little to argue with PCGS about.

kranky

I don't hang out in this forum much but that must have been a tough decision for you, Don. It's obvious that many of you serious collectors who are quite skilled in grading have been unsatisfied with the results for some time now. It is surprising to me that no one from PCGS is trying to create a dialogue with you folks in order to reach an understanding. That would be a smart thing on their part.

But it's great you'll still be on the boards!

madmike

I think part of the problem is that some have "over idealized" PCGS and their services. PCGS is just another company, albiet many of us feel their standards are higher than many of the other grading companies. They are not gods, they don't walk on water. And yes, shock of all shocks... they're in the grading game to make money! Hey, I understand people's frustration with their grades, but the graders are human, and in order to keep the cost of grading down they don't get to spend an hour on every coin.

One of the things I enjoy about this hobby is the passion that everyone brings into it but sometimes that passion can lead you away from what you loved to begin with. An analogy... I have a friend who is an audiophile. We spoke to a guy once that owns a company that builds audio hardware. He said that there are some people that get so into the hardware, they can no longer enjoy the music. It kind of seems like the thing that's happening here. Grading isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless it blinds you to the coins that you loved to begin with.

It's about the coins... It's about the coins

madmike

BillJones

It sounds to me like some of you people have come to your senses. Collecting is something to enjoy, not something to agonize over because, like the Wicked Witch in Snow White, your collection is not “the fairest in the land.” And the funny part is, your collection might be the fairest, but given the inconsistencies of the mirror (PCGS), your efforts may not be given their proper due.

One thing all you Registry folks need to remember is that many of the coins you are collecting ON THE WHOLE are extremely common relative to the older series. I have many coins, tokens and medals in my collection, like an 1805 half dime, in which there are far fewer than 200 surviving examples in ALL grades. I own some 19th century U.S. medals in which the total mintage was less than 50 pieces. (These things sell for only a few hundred dollars – the hard part is finding them.) No regular issue modern coin can equal that so all the value is tied up in condition rarity. To keep the prices up PCGS has to keep the supply down. Otherwise the over inflated prices that some you are paying (IMO) will not hold up even in the short run.

I know I step on toes every time I bring this subject up, but it’s a point that you new collectors need to understand.

Flash

Looks like PCGS may be on the downhill slide to oblivion. I agree with the previous poster who stated that the people at PCGS must not care what the members of this board think about the things they're doing. They really should care.. they NEED to care!

Tonelover

My personal opinion is that the majority or Registry participants over time, will end up remembering the program with a bad taste in their mouth. There are many reasons which have been discussed here over and over but time will be the true test.

I look at some series and see five sets that are 100% complete. Seems like quite an uphill and basically fruitless effort to try to topple them unless you're willing to pay, pay, pay, and then pay some more. If you are though, that's great because there are a number of Registry dealers that are more than happy to charge silly markups because you're in too deep and can't quit now. Don't forget to ask them what they think that pop. 3 is going to be worth when the pop is 10,20, or 50.

Too much worry for me. I just buy one coin at a time, and if my sets are never complete that's fine. At least I'll still have a partial set of coins that I love.

gmarguli

It appears PCGS no longer cares about Collectors Club members and what they think.

PCGS NEVER cared about the small collector. From day 1 they treated the small collector like a leper. The fact that these small collectors are now paying $99 a year to be given inconsistent grades, horrible customer service, and be subjected to a dizzying array of contradictions is nothing but expected. PCGS doesn't even want the small dealers anymore. Big dealers and bulk submitters only.

gmarguli

My personal opinion is that the majority or Registry participants over time, will end up remembering the program with a bad taste in their mouth.

No truer words have been spoken. Most of the people chasing the grade and paying big bucks will end up losing. These are the same people who bought Internet stocks at their top and refused to listed to reason. It's their money and their hobby. Good for them.

nucklehead

I could'nt agree more with Bill Jones,Tonelover and Greg. People who have built high grad Indian cents, Murcury dimes, Buffulo nickle or any of the coins that are no longer made are the ones who worked far harder than any one going after high grade clad stuff.

ModMan

Spoiledsports, the lot of you. Whaaaa. I can't have it my way so I'm picking up my blocks and going home.

Please. Quiting and b!tching isn't the answer. Greg, you do have a way with word, but what about something constructive? I know what you don't like. What does work for you?

What most of you want out of the Registry and what it is today is NOT THAT FAR OFF.

But, if that isn't enough for you- collectors willing to work to make it better- than I suppose you probably should go (Greg).

Or, as I suspect, some of you weren't even members to begin with (Greg). . .

keoj

First of all, great thread. Passion for the hobby should be lauded. I too believe that the current grading standards used by PCGS are inconsistent. I see many coins within the series that I collect and hence I'm very good at the series. Bottom line, I know the difference between a 58 and a 62. More extreme, I even know the difference between a 64 (NGC) and a 55(what PCGS would cross to). As you would expect, I do not know other series as well.

I have tracked my own crossovers over the last 6 months carefully and for the DNC's (and there are many), the grades that come back are 1-2 points (sometimes 3) lower. Consistently. Subtly, I wonder if PCGS is trying to establish a NEW one or TWO point distinction over other services. The flaw in the system is the 5 million (guess) prior grades that they have given out. However, it would be kinder if at least the insert color would change. Again, so much for consistency. The market certainly does not yet recognize this premium yet in terms of cost differential and nor will it unless PCGS resets the prior 5-6 million coins.

Okay, to the point. The Registry should have a different goal than grading. The Registry is a forum to share you collection. It should not justify your collecting zeal. I'm currently listed as #3 on an arcane series. If I added my NGC coins, I'd be a solid #2. Do I cross with the absolute goal to proving it on the Registry? I think not. I know the quality of what I own, thats good enough for me. The audiophile comment earlier was excellent.

I respect your right to protest grading but don't lose sight of the forum that is available for you to share your accomplishment.

On the other side, it does aggravate me that PCGS refuses to enter this dialog.

keoj

RegistryCoin

I think that in the big picture, if one quits, their set simply becomes another rung on the All-Time Finest ladder. I have thirteen retired sets, all soon-to-be-used rungs on the ladder to pcgs fame and stardom.

BillJones

I don’t think that the PCGS grading standards have been raised across the board to all series. I have some early coins (e.g. 1794 half dime, 1804 quarter eagle) in green label PCGS holders that I like much more than the Blue label holders that I have seen of the same issues. Both coins were graded AU-50, and a couple of dealers who have seen them have advised me that I should crack them out and resubmit them. They think that I would get an AU-55 or 58 on them.

The grading inconsistencies cut both ways. For me I deal with them in business by purchasing coins that I like that are already slabbed. I submit very little because to me it’s like a lottery because of the inconsistency problems. For my collection, I frankly don’t care since I’m not looking to sell those pieces for the foreseeable future. My collection includes PCGS, NGC, one ANACS coin and quite a few raw pieces that I have purchased over the last 30 years. The one concession that I have made is that I have not purchased an expensive (over $1,000) raw coin for more than a decade. Nowadays most of the expensive raw coins that I see at the major shows are raw because they can’t get into a major service’s holder.