Overall, I have been very PLEASANTLY surprised by the rousing support for Frank Thomas on here. I think he'll get in too! I am a big McGwire fan as well, but if I had to pick ONE, I think you all know who I'd pick....
Player tests positive for steroids any banned substance, they are not eligible for the Hall. Make it a one strike and you're out policy. Bonds has admitted (grand jury testimony) he used steroids, he's out. Palmiero tested positive for steroids, he's out.
McGwire? Sosa? No tests, no admissions, they're eligible for the Hall. Last time I checked you can't penalize a guy for 'possibly, maybe' using. >>>
When did Bonds admit using steroids? Answer: He never did, and he never tested positive. So, I guess that debate is settled.
Mark B.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>When did Bonds admit using steroids? Answer: He never did, and he never tested positive. So, I guess that debate is settled. >>
He admitted to the grand jury he testified before (during the BALCO trial) that he 'unknowingly' used both the 'cream' and the 'clear'. So I guess that debate truly is settled.
Bonds? Out. Palmiero? Out.
Thomas? In. McGwire? Definitely In. Sosa? In (unless a positive test comes up). Rose? Absolutely should be in.
i have this mental image of McGwire being thrown a slow, underhand pitch and him frustratingly swinging thru it like 3 times, before it ends up hitting him......
maybe the Hall needs to take a page from PSA- let questionable players in with qualifiers. ST- Steroid abuser, DG- Degenerate Gambler, BC- Bat Corker....or for pitchers goes the DB for Doctored Baseballs..... goes right on ther plaque in bold letters above their name. and instead of bronze image of their face, it will be a cartoon drawing done by Simpsons creator Matt Groening......
This discussion will go on for a very long time....
McGwire used products that were not yet banned but there are those who believe he should be punished anyway. Bonds has not admitted to using Steriods, However I believe Bonds did this to himself by not treating the press or his fans better early in his career.
It is a fact that pitchers benefit more from performance drugs than do batters, but its the batters who are consistantly in the press. I believe that at least 50% of players have used, at some time in their careers, a performance drug of some kind.
Baseball needs more strict rules for the future and leave Bonds and McGwire alone.
McGwire and Thomas should be in the HOF. Bonds should be a first balot, no questions asked.
262
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<<<<Actually Bonds did admit to using steroids. See the ESPN article dated 12/4/04, or his grand jury testimony. You can find the article through Google. >>>>
Actually, he did not admit using steroids. What he did admit was that he used something that it is widely believed was a steroid based cream. He thought it was flaxseed oil and arthritic ointment. That was his testimony. Now, you may think this is the same thing as admitting using steroids but legally, it is not the same. It's just like the victim who was slipped a "mickey" or some other type of illegal substance without their knowledge. They are not criminals and cannot be indicted for taking illegal substances. I have no doubt the witch hunt will continue and I am not going to convince anyone to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds. Of course, the feds realize they have a weak case and that is why he has not been indicted. Just want to set the facts straight from a legal perspective.
This will drag on for years but at the end of the day, either you have to assume everyone in this era was using PEDs and ban them all, or you move on and set the standards going forward. The Bonds haters and the baseball purists will never agree, I respect their views, but unless the writers want to continue their long tradition of electing cronies, playing politics, making broad and speculative assumptions about who was using what and leaving out deserving players, Bonds will be in on the 1st ballot.
Mark B.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>It's just like the victim who was slipped a "mickey" or some other type of illegal substance without their knowledge. >>
It is only "just like" that if you believe Bonds. There being no reason whatsoever to believe Bonds claim that he was the unknowing victim of a massive steroid conspiracy, there is also no basis to say what you said. {On the other hand, if you are right that this all happened without Bonds' knowledge, then your "defense" of Bonds is essentially that he is the stupidest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth. There is no third choice, and I'm not sure why the HOF should open its doors either way.}
<< <i>They are not criminals and cannot be indicted for taking illegal substances. >>
For the 8,453rd time - who cares if the way that Bonds chose to cheat at baseball happened to also be against the law? He doesn't belong in the HOF - ever - because he's a cheater. Whether or not he also broke a law along the way is an entirely different subject - and one that does not interest me at all.
<< <i>I have no doubt the witch hunt will continue and I am not going to convince anyone to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds. >>
Oh, come on. To use "witch hunt" to describe this situation is either absurd or obtuse. Again, whether or not there is sufficient admissable evidence to convict Bonds of a crime in a court is a separate and irrelevant question; that there is enough evidence to convince anyone with the sense God gave a flea that Bonds cheated at baseball is really not open to serious question.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
like I said, dallasactuary, I respect other people's opinions and avoid attacking their beliefs by comparing them to fleas. Believe it or not, there are intelligent people who don't agree with your assessment. If you're going to take the position that Bonds should not be in the HOF, great. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to keep my mind open until we hear all the facts.
Mark B.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>For the 8,453rd time - who cares if the way that Bonds chose to cheat at baseball happened to also be against the law? He doesn't belong in the HOF - ever - because he's a cheater. Whether or not he also broke a law along the way is an entirely different subject - and one that does not interest me at all. >>
The Problem with this statement is that we do not have any proof of your claim. You are making the assumption that Bonds knowingly took PED's. If he has not admitted that and we have no evidence that he knowingly took these drugs, how can anybody say for sure if he did or did not take the PED's. That fact that Bonds has gained wieght and gained muscle mass over that last 20 years is not enough proof for me.
I do not want to change your mind about Bonds, however you should at least wait until all the facts are on the table. Lets also remember, Bonds is not the only player that "may" have taken PED's.
262
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i>like I said, dallasactuary, I respect other people's opinions and avoid attacking their beliefs by comparing them to fleas. Believe it or not, there are intelligent people who don't agree with your assessment. If you're going to take the position that Bonds should not be in the HOF, great. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to keep my mind open until we hear all the facts. >>
On the contrary, I respect your opinion too much to think that you honestly believe that Barry Bonds is the victim here.
If your position is that you don't want to publicly declare an opinion at this time, that's fine. But on the one hand you say you are "keeping your mind open" while on the other hand you say that you are trying to get people to "change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds". But you really can't have it both ways - is your mind still open or have you reached such a level of certainty that you are now moving on to convincing others? My impression is that you are a fan whose beliefs are currently being fueled by little more than hope - "Say it ain't so, Barry" or some such thing. But in the end I think you have to know where this is headed - hope is no match for unbridled greed and arrogance.
As to the existence of intelligent people who do not agree with my assessment, it depends on which assessment you mean. On my assessment that he does not belong in the HOF, I have no doubt that there are intelligent people who disagree with me. On my assessment that he knowingly used steroids, let's just say that I am very, very skeptical that such people exist. There may be people, like yourself, who don't want it to be true and are holding out for a photograph of Bonds with a big needle labeled "STEROIDS" sticking out of his arm before they will admit to themselves that it is true. But to say that they "disagree" that Bonds cheated seems a stretch.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
your words...."you are trying to get people to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds"
my actual words........
"I am not going to convince anyone to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds"
last post on this subject because I can't seem to get you to actually read what I said in my post, dallasactuary....
I don't know if Bonds took steroids or not. In fact I don't know, other than those who either admitted taking them or were tested positive, whether any other players took them. I am just not willing to indict anyone without hard facts. But you, along with many others, for whatever reason, seem very content to convict people who have not been proven guilty. Is it a possibility? Of course. Is it fact? Possibly. Will it change my mind about whether Bonds deserves to be in the HOF? Not any more than it would change my mind about Rose deserving to be in the HOF if he admitted he bet on baseball. Why? Because nobody can prove who took what and when it all started and what impact it had on anyone's performance. Nobody knows what impact "greenies" had on two generations of players before Bonds, nor do they know for sure who took them. I'm not willing to make one guy the scapegoat for a generations of players who took PEDs just because you think it is incomprehensible that any rational human being could ever believe he is innoocent or that we should trust your judgment in determining who is deserving of getting in and who should not get into the HOF.
Bonds not getting into the HOF will make a complete mockery out of an already broken system.
Mark B.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>Bonds not getting into the HOF will make a complete mockery out of an already broken system. >>
No, Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven not getting into the HOF has already made a complete mockery of the system. No other vote could make it any worse.
And, as I already said, I agree that there is no proof that Bonds knowingly took steroids. There is abundant proof that he took them - so much that I honestly do question the existence of an intelligent person who doubts it - but not proof that he knowingly took them. Which leaves the second alternative - that Bonds is the stupidest human being who ever walked the face of the Earth for not noticing the dramatic, unnatural changes happening to his body. If there is a third alternative it escapes me, and I think the notion that anyone who can tie his own shoes, let alone play major league baseball, could be THAT stupid is much more far-fetched than that a major league power hitter in the late 90's started taking steroids.
And my wish for the future is that all references like "indict", "convict", "proven guilty", etc. will get out of these conversations where they really don't belong. I am not arguing for Bonds to be thrown in jail, which is the only circumstance where those words would have any meaning.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
I think the ball's in Mark McGwire's court, and I don't see him hitting it back to the fans/media/press anytime soon. Meaning that what he's been doing since the congress hearing isn't going to get him elected to HOF.
Same goes for Palmeiro. I think they can both get in, but they will have to repair themselves in the best possible way.
Perhaps they should hire Terrell Owens ex-PR lady --- I understand she's looking for employment.
<< <i>Bonds not getting into the HOF will make a complete mockery out of an already broken system. >>
No, Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven not getting into the HOF has already made a complete mockery of the system. No other vote could make it any worse. >>
I would say Phil Rizzuto getting in is far more damaging than Bert Blyleven being out. You can make a good case AGAINST Blyleven, you can't make a good case FOR Rizzuto. Same deal with Santo. I think they're both HOFers but their exclusion doesn't represent a mockery of the system more than some guys' inclusion.
Major League Baseball, NFL, NHL, NBA should clean-up steriods and drugs for good. And put and end to the craziness once and for all.
Offer a multi-league and a government amnesty for all players.
Make every single player sign an affidavit that as of a certain date, they promise never to use a banned substance or a banned steriod, otherwise risk being banned for life in professional sports, plus a possible fFederal criminal action on illegal drug activities across state lines.
In other words "one and done" no exceptions! Weed, downers, uppers, coke, steriods, it doesn't matter, "ONE STRIKE AND YOUR OUT"!
I for one am sick and tired of all the BS. These highly paid athletes need to be held to a highest standard, for the benefit of our youth, that have enough pressure on them already, do not need to see their sports heroes involved with drug usage! And if these athletes still want to "play with drugs", well, they can sell insurance or cars, or work 9-5 like the rest of us, because, "once and done"!
Comments
<< <i>Mcgwire, Bonds, and Palmeiro I do not think will ever get in. >>
* C. PASCUAL BASIC #3
* T. PEREZ BASIC #4 100%
* L. TIANT BASIC #1
* DRYSDALE BASIC #4 100%
* MAGIC MASTER #4/BASIC #3
* PALMEIRO MASTER/BASIC #1
* '65 DISNEYLAND #2
* '78 ELVIS PRESLEY #6
* '78 THREE'S COMPANY #1
WaltDisneyBoards
1990 CWS 60 191 39 63 11 3 7 31 44 54 0 1 .330 .454 .529 .983
1991 CWS 158 559 104 178 31 2 32 109 138 112 1 2 .318 .453 .553 1.006
1992 CWS 160 573 108 185 46 2 24 115 122 88 6 3 .323 .439 .536 .975
1993 CWS 153 549 106 174 36 0 41 128 112 54 4 2 .317 .426 .607 1.033
1994 CWS 113 399 106 141 34 1 38 101 109 61 2 3 .353 .487 .729 1.217
1995 CWS 145 493 102 152 27 0 40 111 136 74 3 2 .308 .454 .606 1.061
1996 CWS 141 527 110 184 26 0 40 134 109 70 1 1 .349 .459 .626 1.085
1997 CWS 146 530 110 184 35 0 35 125 109 69 1 1 .347 .456 .611 1.067
1998 CWS 160 585 109 155 35 2 29 109 110 93 7 0 .265 .381 .480 .861
1999 CWS 135 486 74 148 36 0 15 77 87 66 3 3 .305 .414 .471 .885
2000 CWS 159 582 115 191 44 0 43 143 112 94 1 3 .328 .436 .625 1.061
2001 CWS 20 68 8 15 3 0 4 10 10 12 0 0 .221 .316 .441 .758
2002 CWS 148 523 77 132 29 1 28 92 88 115 3 0 .252 .361 .472 .834
2003 CWS 153 546 87 146 35 0 42 105 100 115 0 0 .267 .390 .562 .952
2004 CWS 74 240 53 65 16 0 18 49 64 57 0 2 .271 .434 .563 .997
2005 CWS 34 105 19 23 3 0 12 26 16 31 0 0 .219 .315 .590 .905
2006 OAK 137 466 77 126 11 0 39 114 81 81 0 0 .270 .381 .545 .926
Career 2096 7422 1404 2262 458 11 487 1579 1547 1246 32 23 .305 .424 .566 .990
Brent
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<< <i>Oh, and I would put Roger Maris in the HOF before Rose, McGwire and Bonds. >>
Amen to that!!
Palmeiro should ALSO be a shoe-in for the HOF, I hate this roid scandal.
Thomas---iffy
McGwire---Not in his lifetime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>It's gotta be The Big Hurt.
Brent >>
Could you be biased?
Player tests positive for steroids any banned substance, they are not eligible for the Hall. Make it a one strike and you're out policy. Bonds has admitted (grand jury testimony) he used steroids, he's out. Palmiero tested positive for steroids, he's out.
McGwire? Sosa? No tests, no admissions, they're eligible for the Hall. Last time I checked you can't penalize a guy for 'possibly, maybe' using.
>>>
When did Bonds admit using steroids? Answer: He never did, and he never tested positive. So, I guess that debate is settled.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Brent >>
Could you be biased?
Well , of course not. Frank discovered the cure for Polio too. I think he's working on world peace during the off season.
Brent
Bo Jackson Basic(#1) and Master(#1)
Bob Feller Basic(#4)
Sam McDowell Basic(#1)
2004 Cracker Jack Master
My Ebay Store
<< <i>When did Bonds admit using steroids? Answer: He never did, and he never tested positive. So, I guess that debate is settled. >>
He admitted to the grand jury he testified before (during the BALCO trial) that he 'unknowingly' used both the 'cream' and the 'clear'. So I guess that debate truly is settled.
Bonds? Out.
Palmiero? Out.
Thomas? In.
McGwire? Definitely In.
Sosa? In (unless a positive test comes up).
Rose? Absolutely should be in.
Edited to add: I hope I spelled douchebag correctly.
<< <i>just wondering......why does Roger Maris belong in the Hall? but then again, Mazeroski's in so..... >>
Maris was a Yankee.
i concur
maybe the Hall needs to take a page from PSA- let questionable players in with qualifiers. ST- Steroid abuser, DG- Degenerate Gambler, BC- Bat Corker....or for pitchers goes the DB for Doctored Baseballs..... goes right on ther plaque in bold letters above their name. and instead of bronze image of their face, it will be a cartoon drawing done by Simpsons creator Matt Groening......
well, just trying to be realistic....
<< <i>Mattingly, Santo, Hodges et al belong in the Hall before the injured, infirm, and "self-medicated". >>
<< <i>Mattingly, Santo, Hodges et al belong in the Hall before the injured, infirm, and "self-medicated". >>
So you're saying Mattingly belongs in before Mike Schmidt does, who admitted to taking greenies often during his playing days?
When did Bonds admit using steroids? Answer: He never did, and he never tested positive. So, I guess that debate is settled. >>
Actually Bonds did admit to using steroids. See the ESPN article dated 12/4/04, or his grand jury testimony. You can find the article through Google.
McGwire used products that were not yet banned but there are those who believe he should be punished anyway. Bonds has not admitted to using Steriods, However I believe Bonds did this to himself by not treating the press or his fans better early in his career.
It is a fact that pitchers benefit more from performance drugs than do batters, but its the batters who are consistantly in the press. I believe that at least 50% of players have used, at some time in their careers, a performance drug of some kind.
Baseball needs more strict rules for the future and leave Bonds and McGwire alone.
McGwire and Thomas should be in the HOF. Bonds should be a first balot, no questions asked.
262
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
Actually, he did not admit using steroids. What he did admit was that he used something that it is widely believed was a steroid based cream. He thought it was flaxseed oil and arthritic ointment. That was his testimony. Now, you may think this is the same thing as admitting using steroids but legally, it is not the same. It's just like the victim who was slipped a "mickey" or some other type of illegal substance without their knowledge. They are not criminals and cannot be indicted for taking illegal substances. I have no doubt the witch hunt will continue and I am not going to convince anyone to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds. Of course, the feds realize they have a weak case and that is why he has not been indicted. Just want to set the facts straight from a legal perspective.
This will drag on for years but at the end of the day, either you have to assume everyone in this era was using PEDs and ban them all, or you move on and set the standards going forward. The Bonds haters and the baseball purists will never agree, I respect their views, but unless the writers want to continue their long tradition of electing cronies, playing politics, making broad and speculative assumptions about who was using what and leaving out deserving players, Bonds will be in on the 1st ballot.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>It's just like the victim who was slipped a "mickey" or some other type of illegal substance without their knowledge. >>
It is only "just like" that if you believe Bonds. There being no reason whatsoever to believe Bonds claim that he was the unknowing victim of a massive steroid conspiracy, there is also no basis to say what you said. {On the other hand, if you are right that this all happened without Bonds' knowledge, then your "defense" of Bonds is essentially that he is the stupidest human being to ever walk the face of the Earth. There is no third choice, and I'm not sure why the HOF should open its doors either way.}
<< <i>They are not criminals and cannot be indicted for taking illegal substances. >>
For the 8,453rd time - who cares if the way that Bonds chose to cheat at baseball happened to also be against the law? He doesn't belong in the HOF - ever - because he's a cheater. Whether or not he also broke a law along the way is an entirely different subject - and one that does not interest me at all.
<< <i>I have no doubt the witch hunt will continue and I am not going to convince anyone to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds. >>
Oh, come on. To use "witch hunt" to describe this situation is either absurd or obtuse. Again, whether or not there is sufficient admissable evidence to convict Bonds of a crime in a court is a separate and irrelevant question; that there is enough evidence to convince anyone with the sense God gave a flea that Bonds cheated at baseball is really not open to serious question.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>For the 8,453rd time - who cares if the way that Bonds chose to cheat at baseball happened to also be against the law? He doesn't belong in the HOF - ever - because he's a cheater. Whether or not he also broke a law along the way is an entirely different subject - and one that does not interest me at all. >>
The Problem with this statement is that we do not have any proof of your claim. You are making the assumption that Bonds knowingly took PED's. If he has not admitted that and we have no evidence that he knowingly took these drugs, how can anybody say for sure if he did or did not take the PED's. That fact that Bonds has gained wieght and gained muscle mass over that last 20 years is not enough proof for me.
I do not want to change your mind about Bonds, however you should at least wait until all the facts are on the table. Lets also remember, Bonds is not the only player that "may" have taken PED's.
262
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
<< <i>like I said, dallasactuary, I respect other people's opinions and avoid attacking their beliefs by comparing them to fleas. Believe it or not, there are intelligent people who don't agree with your assessment. If you're going to take the position that Bonds should not be in the HOF, great. I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm just trying to keep my mind open until we hear all the facts. >>
On the contrary, I respect your opinion too much to think that you honestly believe that Barry Bonds is the victim here.
If your position is that you don't want to publicly declare an opinion at this time, that's fine. But on the one hand you say you are "keeping your mind open" while on the other hand you say that you are trying to get people to "change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds". But you really can't have it both ways - is your mind still open or have you reached such a level of certainty that you are now moving on to convincing others? My impression is that you are a fan whose beliefs are currently being fueled by little more than hope - "Say it ain't so, Barry" or some such thing. But in the end I think you have to know where this is headed - hope is no match for unbridled greed and arrogance.
As to the existence of intelligent people who do not agree with my assessment, it depends on which assessment you mean. On my assessment that he does not belong in the HOF, I have no doubt that there are intelligent people who disagree with me. On my assessment that he knowingly used steroids, let's just say that I am very, very skeptical that such people exist. There may be people, like yourself, who don't want it to be true and are holding out for a photograph of Bonds with a big needle labeled "STEROIDS" sticking out of his arm before they will admit to themselves that it is true. But to say that they "disagree" that Bonds cheated seems a stretch.
my actual words........
"I am not going to convince anyone to change their opinion about the much maligned Bonds"
last post on this subject because I can't seem to get you to actually read what I said in my post, dallasactuary....
I don't know if Bonds took steroids or not. In fact I don't know, other than those who either admitted taking them or were tested positive, whether any other players took them. I am just not willing to indict anyone without hard facts. But you, along with many others, for whatever reason, seem very content to convict people who have not been proven guilty. Is it a possibility? Of course. Is it fact? Possibly. Will it change my mind about whether Bonds deserves to be in the HOF? Not any more than it would change my mind about Rose deserving to be in the HOF if he admitted he bet on baseball. Why? Because nobody can prove who took what and when it all started and what impact it had on anyone's performance. Nobody knows what impact "greenies" had on two generations of players before Bonds, nor do they know for sure who took them. I'm not willing to make one guy the scapegoat for a generations of players who took PEDs just because you think it is incomprehensible that any rational human being could ever believe he is innoocent or that we should trust your judgment in determining who is deserving of getting in and who should not get into the HOF.
Bonds not getting into the HOF will make a complete mockery out of an already broken system.
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>Bonds not getting into the HOF will make a complete mockery out of an already broken system. >>
No, Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven not getting into the HOF has already made a complete mockery of the system. No other vote could make it any worse.
And, as I already said, I agree that there is no proof that Bonds knowingly took steroids. There is abundant proof that he took them - so much that I honestly do question the existence of an intelligent person who doubts it - but not proof that he knowingly took them. Which leaves the second alternative - that Bonds is the stupidest human being who ever walked the face of the Earth for not noticing the dramatic, unnatural changes happening to his body. If there is a third alternative it escapes me, and I think the notion that anyone who can tie his own shoes, let alone play major league baseball, could be THAT stupid is much more far-fetched than that a major league power hitter in the late 90's started taking steroids.
And my wish for the future is that all references like "indict", "convict", "proven guilty", etc. will get out of these conversations where they really don't belong. I am not arguing for Bonds to be thrown in jail, which is the only circumstance where those words would have any meaning.
I think the ball's in Mark McGwire's court, and I don't see him hitting it back to the fans/media/press anytime soon. Meaning that what he's been doing since the congress hearing isn't going to get him elected to HOF.
Same goes for Palmeiro. I think they can both get in, but they will have to repair themselves in the best possible way.
Perhaps they should hire Terrell Owens ex-PR lady --- I understand she's looking for employment.
Erik
<< <i>
<< <i>Bonds not getting into the HOF will make a complete mockery out of an already broken system. >>
No, Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven not getting into the HOF has already made a complete mockery of the system. No other vote could make it any worse. >>
I would say Phil Rizzuto getting in is far more damaging than Bert Blyleven being out. You can make a good case AGAINST Blyleven, you can't make a good case FOR Rizzuto. Same deal with Santo. I think they're both HOFers but their exclusion doesn't represent a mockery of the system more than some guys' inclusion.
Tabe
Offer a multi-league and a government amnesty for all players.
Make every single player sign an affidavit that as of a certain date, they promise never to use a banned substance or a banned steriod, otherwise risk being banned for life in professional sports, plus a possible fFederal criminal action on illegal drug activities across state lines.
In other words "one and done" no exceptions! Weed, downers, uppers, coke, steriods, it doesn't matter, "ONE STRIKE AND YOUR OUT"!
I for one am sick and tired of all the BS. These highly paid athletes need to be held to a highest standard, for the benefit of our youth, that have enough pressure on them already, do not need to see their sports heroes involved with drug usage! And if these athletes still want to "play with drugs", well, they can sell insurance or cars, or work 9-5 like the rest of us, because, "once and done"!
rd
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