in this instance, was an indication of charitable sarcasm.
My bad, storm, carry on, lol!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> But on ebay, not over an internet board..I mean come on people. >>
Any member of these boards can honestly say that this board is unlike any other. In my short tenure here, I have seen a sercret santa exchange ( based on trust) seem to be pulled off flawlessly, cards been given away, advice given away even when the other party could have used it to better themselves financially, and many trades and sales completed, all based on trust. I think any member here would say that they would rather participate in 50 rips with one bad experience, than none at all. never trusting anybody may be the safest way to live, but the experiences you miss out on makes life seem less exciting and fun.
As of 10:50 PM Pacific ---- almost the same miniscule amount of people who think that BBCE is somehow sending faulty packs (3 people, 2% of the vote) feel that Gary is actually innocent in all of this (4 people, 2%).
Whether he is resealing or just card-laundering (pack swapping) ---- I now firmly believe that while the pack participants were believed to be buying "BBCE" boxes -- we were actually footing Gary's bill to acquire those boxes ... and we were left with boxes from "Gary's Warehouse" -- origin unknown.
Other than fear of chargebacks from Gary, I am somewhat surprised that Steve is quiet in all of this. No doubt he holds a lot of info/answers that would shed light on some of this. It may not be his place as a business owner ----- but his reputation surely stands to lose out with guys like Gary misrepresenting his product so grossly.
4 tainted Gary rips (if you do not include basketball, which likely is not now tainted due to timing of story break) 36 participants per rip (a few less, considering Gary was part of each) $350-400 per person for the 4 rips.
Gary was able to launder roughly $14,000.
How much he actually did launder is a mystery, and probably always will be.
... but we were scammed HARD.
... and it doesn't feel good.
-Tom
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i> But on ebay, not over an internet board..I mean come on people. >>
Any member of these boards can honestly say that this board is unlike any other. In my short tenure here, I have seen a sercret santa exchange ( based on trust) seem to be pulled off flawlessly, cards been given away, advice given away even when the other party could have used it to better themselves financially, and many trades and sales completed, all based on trust. I think any member here would say that they would rather participate in 50 rips with one bad experience, than none at all. never trusting anybody may be the safest way to live, but the experiences you miss out on makes life seem less exciting and fun. >>
Excellent points!
I mentioned in the Heritage thread how I never pull any autos - in fact only 1 in the last 4 years and Highend - a big Heritage collector sent me these two autos.
jgarci - I don't know anything about why you are having difficulties here - the origin or anything. But this is a serious matter and a lot of people are upset - I think the mature thing to do is lay off.
The cards sent to me:
I had posted this around my birthday Feb 18th. mike
Other than fear of chargebacks from Gary, I am somewhat surprised that Steve is quiet in all of this. No doubt he holds a lot of info/answers that would shed light on some of this. It may not be his place as a business owner ----- but his reputation surely stands to lose out with guys like Gary misrepresenting his product so grossly.
Steve is out of town till Monday at a card show. I'm sure he will weigh in when he returns.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Stone that is an amazingly nice gesture. And those aren't just any 2 autos either! So on our birthday, you got a Berra and Snider auto cards, and I got a cell phone case. seems fair.
<< <i>Steve from BBCE may be able to shed some light on some packs sent to him for inspection but what do you want from him otherwise?
Once they leave Steve's hands he cant control what someone does with them.
I dont see he has any stake in this. This is all of Gary's doing...alone...by himself...no one else. >>
Of course he has no stake in it and of course its Gary's doing ..... but he knows what was actually purchased ---- vis a vie --- did Gary buy an 84 football box from him. What exact boxes were purchased in the 70s/80s baseball rip. When were they shipped.
We would be able to know, without a doubt, which boxes were and were not obtained via BBCE.
Knowing this would give us hard proof on all of the "non-BBCE" boxes even available for our rips (regardless of what Gary did with them). This alone gives is direct recourse in getting money back. We PAID for BBCE boxes --- if Gary didn't even order them, he owes us AT LEAST the difference from what the BBCE cost would have been and the box he ultimately got us.
not sure if this makes sense ... but knowing the exact boxes Steve shipped out does matter.
-t
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
I agree with that. But would only be to Gary's advantage to having clean wax and replacing it with bad or resealed. I dont think that info alone will give much. The info we will never find out is what will matter.
And he of course could confirm or deny whether he sent the packs without the box (the 85 I believe?) like gary said, and whether he was 'out of some years' like gary also stated.
Once they leave Steve's hands he cant control what someone does with them.
I dont see he has any stake in this. This is all of Gary's doing...alone...by himself...no one else.
I agree with that, yankeeno, though I'm sure that Steve is not too pleased with all that's gone on since many members here were getting "unopened" packs from him, through Gary, that were very apparently compromised.
Many have said, and I also agree, why was Gary so adamant about receiving that sealed case of 1978 boxes even after Steve so generously volunteered to ship all the packs/boxes direct? That was a huge red flag for me and the main reason I went from two lots to one lot, truth be told. The answer is readily apparent now, but I'm also surprised that so many of us (me included) trusted this guy to the extent we did. Lesson learned, but as someone else also said, I think, in the end, this whole sordid experience will bring us closer together as a community of collectors. There are certainly many very trustworthy people on here, and that's what'll keep us together in the end. I, for one, am looking forward to the 1980 case break!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I agree with that. But would only be to Gary's advantage to having clean wax and replacing it with bad or resealed. I dont think that info alone will give much. The info we will never find out is what will matter. >>
Agreed.
...but, I live in California. I'm on a softball team with 6 lawyers. If I did want to actually try and take this somewhere --- evidence like how many BBCE boxes were were "told" we were getting and how many BBCE boxes were actually purchased is a natural starting place for fraud. We entrusted Gary with money to purchase specific items. All kinds of things are coming to light to indicated that our money was not necessarily used to buy what it was supposed to ......
-t
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>I agree with that. But would only be to Gary's advantage to having clean wax and replacing it with bad or resealed. I dont think that info alone will give much. The info we will never find out is what will matter. >>
Agreed.
...but, I live in California. I'm on a softball team with 6 lawyers. If I did want to actually try and take this somewhere --- evidence like how many BBCE boxes were were "told" we were getting and how many BBCE boxes were actually purchased is a natural starting place for fraud. We entrusted Gary with money to purchase specific items. All kinds of things are coming to light to indicated that our money was not necessarily used to buy what it was supposed to ......
-t >>
This this is regardless of the fact that once it was bought, we don't even know if it ever made it to us. It is likely that a portion made it to us and a portion was "swapped" from Gary's Warehouse. But that aspect of things is more difficult to prove and a lot murkier at this point.
- Building these sets: ------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+ ------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Steve does have a stake in this because if I'm remembering the post correctly, Gary stated that he received the packs from Steve and simply shipped them out to the buyers "as is" which would indicate, according to Gary, that Steve is selling resealed packs.
My take? If he were to refund every individual here. That would be the best form of punishment.
Don't hold yr breath.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
"If he were to refund every individual here. That would be the best form of punishment."
/////////////////////////////////////////////////
That is the correct solution.
But, it might not be economically feasible.
Even if Gary admitted there was a problem, he might not have the resources to solve it.
The problem with the partial refunds that could come from a negotiated settlement is that there would be no incentive for the buyers to "forgive." Absent that feature, Gary is not likely to see any advantage to a pro-rata or partial refund.
The fact that he has not offered a full refund is a pretty good indication that he simply does not have the funds available to do so.
It's a bad thing.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
What I find amusing is the fact he stated recently ==he sold 1 million worth of beer bongs last year== Yet he says he is buying and selling packs and empty boxes to make a couple hundred at most. yeaaaaaaa. ok.
Everyone is happy - he no longer fronts any rips and has a chance to mend some fences?
Honestly, Stone, his credibility and his reputation are beyond repair, IMO.
Edit: And I truly doubt there will be any refunds, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
everyone requesting a refund could send Gary a 'request for payment' via paypal. may not get anything back but it would make it easier for him to send the money IF he was going to do anything
<<But, on another note? If he's offered partial refunds...
What was the rationale for doing this?
To me - if one is offering money back - that's tantamount to admitting some form of liability.
So - just take it one step farther - offer full refunds - which will be accepted as restitution without having to admit fraud as such.
Everyone is happy - he no longer fronts any rips and has a chance to mend some fences?>>
ive offered refunds on the unopened stuff because I did nothing wrong at least the unopened stuff I could recoup. If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. Guys are jumoping on this bandwagon and wanting refunds because they didnt get anything good. do you see the guys who pulled payton rookie and what not wanting a refund. i think not. and for the record no boxes i got from bbce were ever swaped. Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out. yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay but only because stuff steve was out of why becuase no on else had them and i didnt want the rip to fall apart plus i paid more for it then steve sold them and ate money on that didnt comeback and charge extra. I havent posted much becuase again everyones made up there mind and theres people who just keep adding the post about the same nonsense over and over even about things ive already answered so why would i keep subjecting myself to the misery.
<< <i> yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay >>
Then you sir are a complete fraud, and at least a partial refund for packs sent that were NOT as promised when payments were made is in order.
I did NOT pay for boxes/packs from ebay, and the fact that this was kept quiet until now is more evidence that your credibility on these issues is zero.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>ive offered refunds on the unopened stuff because I did nothing wrong at least the unopened stuff I could recoup. If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. Guys are jumoping on this bandwagon and wanting refunds because they didnt get anything good. do you see the guys who pulled payton rookie and what not wanting a refund. i think not. and for the record no boxes i got from bbce were ever swaped. Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out. yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay but only because stuff steve was out of why becuase no on else had them and i didnt want the rip to fall apart plus i paid more for it then steve sold them and ate money on that didnt comeback and charge extra. I havent posted much becuase again everyones made up there mind and theres people who just keep adding the post about the same nonsense over and over even about things ive already answered so why would i keep subjecting myself to the misery. >>
Here is your exact explanation which is a bold face lie:
""The eagle has landed!!! We have most of the boxes actually everything showed up today except for the 78 box. Had to order that from dacw becuase steve sold out before I placed the order. But heres a pick for us all to start drooling. Cant wait to crack this 76 box. it will be my first gai box crack I will get evrything split and boxed this weekend. Hopefully the box 78 box shows up today too. I know mondays a postal holiday anyone know if ups runs monday?""
Do you say they came from ebay? And what about the 1984 box?
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Perhaps the ethical and moral thing you could have done Gary, could have been done right away. Post a message on the forum, something to the extent of, "guys, BBCE ran out of this box, so should I refund the cost of these packs and keep the rip going?" "Do I have your OK to purchase another box(es) from another source to keep up with the rip as expected?" If all the packs were bought in a collective deal with a discount, I am sure Steve would have shipped out the needed box(es) to fill the quota, once it came in stock, at the agreed upon rate. I am sure everyone would have waited for those packs or boxes to come in, knowing they came from a real trustworthy dealer, and the rip could have gone on as expected, with a future rip coming up when said packs were received later in the future. Making decisions with another person's money is not right, unless you are designated to do so by that person. I may not post on these boards all too often, but I have not seen anyone send you their checkbook so to speak!
I also notice that "some" people pulled star cards in recent rips. What are the odds that the pack those were pulled from was "searched," the star card removed, and replaced with the same star card of a lesser condition, pulled from the personal collection of the "seacher?" Perhaps it was done to deflect anyone's thoughts about being screwed? All I can say is something ain't right in suburbia!
<< <i>ive offered refunds on the unopened stuff because I did nothing wrong at least the unopened stuff I could recoup. If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. Guys are jumoping on this bandwagon and wanting refunds because they didnt get anything good. do you see the guys who pulled payton rookie and what not wanting a refund. i think not. and for the record no boxes i got from bbce were ever swaped. Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out. yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay but only because stuff steve was out of why becuase no on else had them and i didnt want the rip to fall apart plus i paid more for it then steve sold them and ate money on that didnt comeback and charge extra. I havent posted much becuase again everyones made up there mind and theres people who just keep adding the post about the same nonsense over and over even about things ive already answered so why would i keep subjecting myself to the misery. >>
GARY, WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO DISCUSS THE '84 FOOTBALL CASE RIP?!?!?
Is there a reason why you continue to ignore the thread YOU edited??
Until you specificially address these questions, there will ALWAYS be a doubt. You have ignored this for 48-hours now and the forum DESERVES direct answers.
1) Where was this '84 Topps Football case coming from? 2) How did you get such a great, unheard of deal? 3) * Why did you buy '84 Topps wrappers, huge lot of raw cards, and a box knowing you were about to bust a case?
* Information provided by fellow board members.
Stop side-stepping this, it's only making you look worse.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I realize that this thread is from Saturday, but I am going to reply in the event Gary is reading.
Gary, You are a liar and a thief! Plain and simple. You lied to us about the football rip, period! You have not explained the source of each box. It is also very obvious you would have cheated us on the '78 BB case break had Steve Hart not jumped in to ship.
DO NOT lump me into your explanations because I have not asked for a refund. You guarantee me a refund, and I will ship all cards and wrappers back to you from England! Payton rookie included! I have all your packing, all wrappers, and all cards. I would rather ship your crap back than have tainted product!
And for the DH that thinks I had any part in this, or have ever met Gary, you are an idiot!
I have not weighed in yet and will only add this. Nothing surprises me as to what level people will stoop if there is a buck to be made. 15 years as a cop and 14 as a lawyer has shown me that there are some real arseholes out there that will literally screw their own mother for a few dollars. Sad but true.
As for the rips, I was in on the '75 minis that came from bbce, so that one does not count.
I got 2 lots of the recent basketball rip. As a veteren wax collector I can say this....8 of the packs look legit, 2 are questionable. They could be resealed, but cannot be certain as the roller marks look good, folds and backs do not.
Since I was not in on the other rips, I feel unqualified to vote on conviction. Neverthelsss, seems to be a lack of remorse and overwhellming evidence on what he has purchased. Sort of like the person who is convicted of a crime, but just sits there and listens to the verdict. Don't you think they should be up there screaming "I am innocent!!!". I do not hear much screaming from 80sjunkie.
Who broke this story?? Congrats and kudos to you for savig us much more $$ down the road.
As for legal action---local police probably will not be able to do anything. The Feds are the ones that would need to pick up the ball. Anyone have any contacts with the Operation Bullpen investigators? They may be very interested.
<< <i>I am so glad you stupid sheep lost your money. Just proves to me that you guys are blinded by your vintage prejudice. >>
What?
You may have apologized for this ignorant crapola a few posts later, but I still can't believe you would post such a statement given the events of the past several days on this board. I'm not sure why you even post here.
<< <i> If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. >>
Gary
I'm affraid you're just plain clueless.
Making a nice profit on these events without the express consent of the people - not even considering letting them know you were doing this is just plain deplorable.
Also, based on input - due to your desire to profit - you have passed on to the members here tainted product that didn't necessarily come directly from BBCEx - as they assumed and was intended.
So, even if you hadn't altered a single pack - you are still a liar, a cheat, a reprobate who has displayed absolutely no contrition and not worthy to post here any longer.
Gee, the whole story? Again? Really? I thought you had cleared that up. I cannot believe what a low-life human being you are.
Show some remorse Answer the questions that are asked of you. Provide a copy of the reciept from BBCE for the stuff you "did" purchase from them
For crying out loud, at least say "I'm Sorry" I bet that would go a LONG way... This constant "woe is me" crying game you've continued to represent is tired.
It's funny, every time you open your mouth a liar starts speaking. You've dug a hole so deep you will never recover, and unfortunatley for you, you've crossed the wrong group of guys here. They don't forget a face, they don't forget a name and they'll find you even if you change names or id's. They're a resourceful group of investigators this bunch...
Well, he says he is going to be at the National...Im sure it will spread around fast who he is, where he is set up, and to avoid his product at all cost. And by his own valition, he will be ruined in this hobby...or we can only hope.
A good start of punishment would be for him to be on stage with a microphone and give his name, table location, and a complete rundown of his fraudulant activities here. Should be done twice each day...later morning and then early afternoon so as many people as possible can hear it.
How does one get rid of all that tainted product? Unfortunately along the lines...one or MANY will continue to be screwed with that crapola until its gone and he fades away.
<< <i>I am so glad you stupid sheep lost your money. Just proves to me that you guys are blinded by your vintage prejudice. >>
I wish you would just get banned, and NEVER EVER come back
just ask Ms Chirsty Greene, i had a nice conversation with her today
'95 John GARCIA has earned his full professional teaching credential in social studies and was planning to begin a master's program in education in fall 2003; friends can drop him a line at jgarci11@***.com.
Comments
in this instance, was an indication of charitable sarcasm.
My bad, storm, carry on, lol!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I am so glad you stupid sheep lost your money.
Just proves to me that you guys are blinded by your vintage prejudice. >>
this is exactly why children should not be allowed on here. way too immature.
<< <i>
But on ebay, not over an internet board..I mean come on people.
>>
Any member of these boards can honestly say that this board is unlike any other. In my short tenure here, I have seen a sercret santa exchange ( based on trust) seem to be pulled off flawlessly, cards been given away, advice given away even when the other party could have used it to better themselves financially, and many trades and sales completed, all based on trust. I think any member here would say that they would rather participate in 50 rips with one bad experience, than none at all. never trusting anybody may be the safest way to live, but the experiences you miss out on makes life seem less exciting and fun.
OHHHH!!! WE SHOULD SO DO THAT, JAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will even send out the present first!
Anyone else wanna join?!!??!!
<< <i>I wish there was a secret MCgwire card santa around here!
OHHHH!!! WE SHOULD SO DO THAT, JAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will even send out the present first!
Anyone else wanna join?!!??!! >>
Since there might be only 2 participants, I think the correct term would be a 'trade'.
Whether he is resealing or just card-laundering (pack swapping) ---- I now firmly believe that while the pack participants were believed to be buying "BBCE" boxes -- we were actually footing Gary's bill to acquire those boxes ... and we were left with boxes from "Gary's Warehouse" -- origin unknown.
Other than fear of chargebacks from Gary, I am somewhat surprised that Steve is quiet in all of this. No doubt he holds a lot of info/answers that would shed light on some of this. It may not be his place as a business owner ----- but his reputation surely stands to lose out with guys like Gary misrepresenting his product so grossly.
4 tainted Gary rips (if you do not include basketball, which likely is not now tainted due to timing of story break)
36 participants per rip (a few less, considering Gary was part of each)
$350-400 per person for the 4 rips.
Gary was able to launder roughly $14,000.
How much he actually did launder is a mystery, and probably always will be.
... but we were scammed HARD.
... and it doesn't feel good.
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>
<< <i>
But on ebay, not over an internet board..I mean come on people.
>>
Any member of these boards can honestly say that this board is unlike any other. In my short tenure here, I have seen a sercret santa exchange ( based on trust) seem to be pulled off flawlessly, cards been given away, advice given away even when the other party could have used it to better themselves financially, and many trades and sales completed, all based on trust. I think any member here would say that they would rather participate in 50 rips with one bad experience, than none at all. never trusting anybody may be the safest way to live, but the experiences you miss out on makes life seem less exciting and fun. >>
Excellent points!
I mentioned in the Heritage thread how I never pull any autos - in fact only 1 in the last 4 years and Highend - a big Heritage collector sent me these two autos.
jgarci - I don't know anything about why you are having difficulties here - the origin or anything. But this is a serious matter and a lot of people are upset - I think the mature thing to do is lay off.
The cards sent to me:
I had posted this around my birthday Feb 18th.
mike
<< <i>The same goes for my other posts where I gloaded in you guys' failure. >>
Gloaded??
Sounds painful!
Steve is out of town till Monday at a card show. I'm sure he will weigh in when he returns.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Once they leave Steve's hands he cant control what someone does with them.
I dont see he has any stake in this. This is all of Gary's doing...alone...by himself...no one else.
////////////////////////////
Nope.
........................................................................................
"This is all of Gary's doing...alone...by himself...no one else. "
////////////////////////////////////
Yup.
<< <i>Steve from BBCE may be able to shed some light on some packs sent to him for inspection but what do you want from him otherwise?
Once they leave Steve's hands he cant control what someone does with them.
I dont see he has any stake in this. This is all of Gary's doing...alone...by himself...no one else. >>
Of course he has no stake in it and of course its Gary's doing ..... but he knows what was actually purchased ---- vis a vie --- did Gary buy an 84 football box from him. What exact boxes were purchased in the 70s/80s baseball rip. When were they shipped.
We would be able to know, without a doubt, which boxes were and were not obtained via BBCE.
Knowing this would give us hard proof on all of the "non-BBCE" boxes even available for our rips (regardless of what Gary did with them). This alone gives is direct recourse in getting money back. We PAID for BBCE boxes --- if Gary didn't even order them, he owes us AT LEAST the difference from what the BBCE cost would have been and the box he ultimately got us.
not sure if this makes sense ... but knowing the exact boxes Steve shipped out does matter.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
I dont see he has any stake in this. This is all of Gary's doing...alone...by himself...no one else.
I agree with that, yankeeno, though I'm sure that Steve is not too pleased with all that's gone on since many members here were getting "unopened" packs from him, through Gary, that were very apparently compromised.
Many have said, and I also agree, why was Gary so adamant about receiving that sealed case of 1978 boxes even after Steve so generously volunteered to ship all the packs/boxes direct? That was a huge red flag for me and the main reason I went from two lots to one lot, truth be told. The answer is readily apparent now, but I'm also surprised that so many of us (me included) trusted this guy to the extent we did. Lesson learned, but as someone else also said, I think, in the end, this whole sordid experience will bring us closer together as a community of collectors. There are certainly many very trustworthy people on here, and that's what'll keep us together in the end. I, for one, am looking forward to the 1980 case break!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I agree with that. But would only be to Gary's advantage to having clean wax and replacing it with bad or resealed. I dont think that info alone will give much. The info we will never find out is what will matter. >>
Agreed.
...but, I live in California. I'm on a softball team with 6 lawyers. If I did want to actually try and take this somewhere --- evidence like how many BBCE boxes were were "told" we were getting and how many BBCE boxes were actually purchased is a natural starting place for fraud. We entrusted Gary with money to purchase specific items. All kinds of things are coming to light to indicated that our money was not necessarily used to buy what it was supposed to ......
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>
<< <i>I agree with that. But would only be to Gary's advantage to having clean wax and replacing it with bad or resealed. I dont think that info alone will give much. The info we will never find out is what will matter. >>
Agreed.
...but, I live in California. I'm on a softball team with 6 lawyers. If I did want to actually try and take this somewhere --- evidence like how many BBCE boxes were were "told" we were getting and how many BBCE boxes were actually purchased is a natural starting place for fraud. We entrusted Gary with money to purchase specific items. All kinds of things are coming to light to indicated that our money was not necessarily used to buy what it was supposed to ......
-t >>
This this is regardless of the fact that once it was bought, we don't even know if it ever made it to us. It is likely that a portion made it to us and a portion was "swapped" from Gary's Warehouse. But that aspect of things is more difficult to prove and a lot murkier at this point.
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
I believe that Gary switched good product and distributed some tainted product.
How much? I don't know?
Can he be prosecuted? I don't know?
There is definitely gonna be a problem with connecting evidence to him.
My take? If he were to refund every individual here. That would be the best form of punishment.
mike
My take? If he were to refund every individual here. That would be the best form of punishment.
Don't hold yr breath.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
would be the best form of punishment."
/////////////////////////////////////////////////
That is the correct solution.
But, it might not be economically feasible.
Even if Gary admitted there was a problem,
he might not have the resources to solve it.
The problem with the partial refunds that could
come from a negotiated settlement is that there
would be no incentive for the buyers to "forgive."
Absent that feature, Gary is not likely to see
any advantage to a pro-rata or partial refund.
The fact that he has not offered a full refund is
a pretty good indication that he simply does not
have the funds available to do so.
It's a bad thing.
Yet he says he is buying and selling packs and empty boxes to make a couple hundred at most.
yeaaaaaaa. ok.
reverse this situation, or has been booted? "
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
A few scamsters on the various BSTs have been booted, in the past.
This is a little different, though.
Money is really the only element missing from a potential reversal solution.
As was noted in another thread, sometimes the only way you can prove
you didn't steal the money, is to give the money back. Sounds like a Yogism.
But, on another note? If he's offered partial refunds...
What was the rationale for doing this?
To me - if one is offering money back - that's tantamount to admitting some form of liability.
So - just take it one step farther - offer full refunds - which will be accepted as restitution without having to admit fraud as such.
Everyone is happy - he no longer fronts any rips and has a chance to mend some fences?
Everyone is happy - he no longer fronts any rips and has a chance to mend some fences?
Honestly, Stone, his credibility and his reputation are beyond repair, IMO.
Edit: And I truly doubt there will be any refunds, either.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I agree he may not have the funds.
But, on another note? If he's offered partial refunds...
What was the rationale for doing this? >>
Mike, he was offering money back for people that would send him their packs they didn't open.
So those have more value than the inevitable junk inside.
My Auctions
What was the rationale for doing this?
To me - if one is offering money back - that's tantamount to admitting some form of liability.
So - just take it one step farther - offer full refunds - which will be accepted as restitution without having to admit fraud as such.
Everyone is happy - he no longer fronts any rips and has a chance to mend some fences?>>
ive offered refunds on the unopened stuff because I did nothing wrong at least the unopened stuff I could recoup. If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. Guys are jumoping on this bandwagon and wanting refunds because they didnt get anything good. do you see the guys who pulled payton rookie and what not wanting a refund. i think not.
and for the record no boxes i got from bbce were ever swaped. Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out.
yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay but only because stuff steve was out of why becuase no on else had them and i didnt want the rip to fall apart plus i paid more for it then steve sold them and ate money on that didnt comeback and charge extra. I havent posted much becuase again everyones made up there mind and theres people who just keep adding the post about the same nonsense over and over even about things ive already answered so why would i keep subjecting myself to the misery.
<< <i>
yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay >>
Then you sir are a complete fraud, and at least a partial refund for packs sent that were NOT as promised when payments were made is in order.
I did NOT pay for boxes/packs from ebay, and the fact that this was kept quiet until now is more evidence that your credibility on these issues is zero.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>ive offered refunds on the unopened stuff because I did nothing wrong at least the unopened stuff I could recoup. If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. Guys are jumoping on this bandwagon and wanting refunds because they didnt get anything good. do you see the guys who pulled payton rookie and what not wanting a refund. i think not.
and for the record no boxes i got from bbce were ever swaped. Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out.
yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay but only because stuff steve was out of why becuase no on else had them and i didnt want the rip to fall apart plus i paid more for it then steve sold them and ate money on that didnt comeback and charge extra. I havent posted much becuase again everyones made up there mind and theres people who just keep adding the post about the same nonsense over and over even about things ive already answered so why would i keep subjecting myself to the misery. >>
Well at least you know how to spell "consensus."
""The eagle has landed!!! We have most of the boxes actually everything showed up today except for the 78 box. Had to order that from dacw becuase steve sold out before I placed the order. But heres a pick for us all to start drooling. Cant wait to crack this 76 box. it will be my first gai box crack I will get evrything split and boxed this weekend. Hopefully the box 78 box shows up today too. I know mondays a postal holiday anyone know if ups runs monday?""
Do you say they came from ebay? And what about the 1984 box?
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out.
>>
So, you havent told the whole story? Unreal.
I also notice that "some" people pulled star cards in recent rips. What are the odds that the pack those were pulled from was "searched," the star card removed, and replaced with the same star card of a lesser condition, pulled from the personal collection of the "seacher?" Perhaps it was done to deflect anyone's thoughts about being screwed? All I can say is something ain't right in suburbia!
<< <i>ive offered refunds on the unopened stuff because I did nothing wrong at least the unopened stuff I could recoup. If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. Guys are jumoping on this bandwagon and wanting refunds because they didnt get anything good. do you see the guys who pulled payton rookie and what not wanting a refund. i think not.
and for the record no boxes i got from bbce were ever swaped. Im still calming down from all this crap maybe when things cool down alittle bit more i'll give you the wholes story laid out.
yes on the last football rip the 78 box came from ebay but only because stuff steve was out of why becuase no on else had them and i didnt want the rip to fall apart plus i paid more for it then steve sold them and ate money on that didnt comeback and charge extra. I havent posted much becuase again everyones made up there mind and theres people who just keep adding the post about the same nonsense over and over even about things ive already answered so why would i keep subjecting myself to the misery. >>
GARY, WHY DO YOU REFUSE TO DISCUSS THE '84 FOOTBALL CASE RIP?!?!?
Link
Is there a reason why you continue to ignore the thread YOU edited??
Until you specificially address these questions, there will ALWAYS be a doubt. You have ignored this for 48-hours now and the forum DESERVES direct answers.
1) Where was this '84 Topps Football case coming from?
2) How did you get such a great, unheard of deal?
3) * Why did you buy '84 Topps wrappers, huge lot of raw cards, and a box knowing you were about to bust a case?
* Information provided by fellow board members.
Stop side-stepping this, it's only making you look worse.
Please change the title of the thread.
Maybe.... "Poll results in, GARY GUILTY AS CHARGED"
JMO, Bob C.
61 Topps (100%) 7.96
62 Parkhurst (100%) 8.70
63 Topps (100%) 7.96
63 York WB's (50%) 8.52
68 Topps (39%) 8.54
69 Topps (3%) 9.00
69 OPC (83%) 8.21
71 Topps (100%) 9.21 #1 A.T.F.
72 Topps (100%) 9.39
73 Topps (13%) 9.35
74 OPC WHA (95%) 8.57
75 Topps (50%) 9.23
77 OPC WHA (86%) 8.62 #1 A.T.F.
88 Topps (5%) 10.00
<< <i>Tom,
Please change the title of the thread.
Maybe.... "Poll results in, GARY GUILTY AS CHARGED"
JMO, Bob C. >>
I agree!
As those great Pace picante commercials say
GET THE ROPE!
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Gary, You are a liar and a thief! Plain and simple. You lied to us about the football rip, period! You have not explained the source of each box. It is also very obvious you would have cheated us on the '78 BB case break had Steve Hart not jumped in to ship.
DO NOT lump me into your explanations because I have not asked for a refund. You guarantee me a refund, and I will ship all cards and wrappers back to you from England! Payton rookie included! I have all your packing, all wrappers, and all cards. I would rather ship your crap back than have tainted product!
And for the DH that thinks I had any part in this, or have ever met Gary, you are an idiot!
I voted for "D"!
TGF Collection
TGF Sports
As for the rips, I was in on the '75 minis that came from bbce, so that one does not count.
I got 2 lots of the recent basketball rip. As a veteren wax collector I can say this....8 of the packs look legit, 2 are questionable. They could be resealed, but cannot be certain as the roller marks look good, folds and backs do not.
Since I was not in on the other rips, I feel unqualified to vote on conviction. Neverthelsss, seems to be a lack of remorse and overwhellming evidence on what he has purchased. Sort of like the person who is convicted of a crime, but just sits there and listens to the verdict. Don't you think they should be up there screaming "I am innocent!!!". I do not hear much screaming from 80sjunkie.
Who broke this story?? Congrats and kudos to you for savig us much more $$ down the road.
As for legal action---local police probably will not be able to do anything. The Feds are the ones that would need to pick up the ball. Anyone have any contacts with the Operation Bullpen investigators? They may be very interested.
<< <i>I am so glad you stupid sheep lost your money.
Just proves to me that you guys are blinded by your vintage prejudice. >>
What?
You may have apologized for this ignorant crapola a few posts later, but I still can't believe you would post such a statement given the events of the past several days on this board. I'm not sure why you even post here.
You just said you made a profit from the deal!
<< <i> If i gave everyone a refund that would be admitting guilt and I have done nothing wrong here despite what the consensus might be. >>
Gary
I'm affraid you're just plain clueless.
Making a nice profit on these events without the express consent of the people - not even considering letting them know you were doing this is just plain deplorable.
Also, based on input - due to your desire to profit - you have passed on to the members here tainted product that didn't necessarily come directly from BBCEx - as they assumed and was intended.
So, even if you hadn't altered a single pack - you are still a liar, a cheat, a reprobate who has displayed absolutely no contrition and not worthy to post here any longer.
Stone
julen
RIP GURU
Loves me some shiny!
Wonder if Naxcom took action, or if he yanked them
Show some remorse
Answer the questions that are asked of you.
Provide a copy of the reciept from BBCE for the stuff you "did" purchase from them
For crying out loud, at least say "I'm Sorry" I bet that would go a LONG way... This constant "woe is me" crying game you've continued to represent is tired.
It's funny, every time you open your mouth a liar starts speaking. You've dug a hole so deep you will never recover, and unfortunatley for you, you've crossed the wrong group of guys here. They don't forget a face, they don't forget a name and they'll find you even if you change names or id's. They're a resourceful group of investigators this bunch...
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
A good start of punishment would be for him to be on stage with a microphone and give his name, table location, and a complete rundown of his fraudulant activities here. Should be done twice each day...later morning and then early afternoon so as many people as possible can hear it.
How does one get rid of all that tainted product? Unfortunately along the lines...one or MANY will continue to be screwed with that crapola until its gone and he fades away.
<< <i>I am so glad you stupid sheep lost your money.
Just proves to me that you guys are blinded by your vintage prejudice. >>
I wish you would just get banned, and NEVER EVER come back
just ask Ms Chirsty Greene, i had a nice conversation with her today
'95 John GARCIA has earned his full professional teaching credential in social studies and was planning to begin a master's program in education in fall 2003; friends can drop him a line at jgarci11@***.com.