who,s waiting to see what the ANA is doing with endorcing the Grading Services ???

sTONER

im curious as to see whats going to happen with the ANA and the grading services,, they extended there talks to the charlotte show,and now extended it even further,, the group running the ANA now seem to be good at delaying things,,

Scioto

I, for one, could not care less.

291fifth

I couldn't care less.

MrEureka

I care and I'm watching.

I'd like to see them get the money without compromising the integrity of the organization. It's a worthy challenge.

BillJones

<< <i>I, for one, could not care less. >>



I generally agree with this viewpoint.

At any rate, you can rest assured that their endorsement will not be based upon the merits. It will depend upon which grading service ponies up with the most money. If it turns out to be a “third world” grading service, then the ANA pseudo Peace Dollar lady will shamelessly be on the back of that company’s holder.

Barndog

it matters little what the ANA endorses, for market forces will be a better indicator of which TPG is truly "endorsed" by the buying public.

291fifth

I wonder if the delay means that they are having trouble getting an acceptable offer from the major grading services? I'm sure they wouldn't endorse any of the "third world" services.

messydesk

The grading service(s) endorsed by the ANA will only affect my opinion of the ANA, not that of any given grading service, endorsed or otherwise.

BillJones

<< <i>I wonder if the delay means that they are having trouble getting an acceptable offer from the major grading services? I'm sure they wouldn't endorse any of the "third world" services. >>



Don't count out ICG. Although it's a long shot, they stand the best chance of grabbing the brass ring.

Steve

<< <i>I wonder if the delay means that they are having trouble getting an acceptable offer from the major grading services? I'm sure they wouldn't endorse any of the "third world" services. >>



I agree. The delay means they are looking to get at least what they got last time. My guess is that NGC will get the endorsement again at about the same MONEY. It's easier (and cheaper) for everyone to leave things as they are. Obviously, this thing is not playing out as well as the leadership had hoped. JMHO. Steve

Julian

I have expressed my opinion to the ANA, and maybe here before, that any TPGS that has competent professionals on staff should have the opportunity to receive an ANA "seal of competency and responsibility".

For the record, I believe that the PNG should also issue have a seal as well, since they have sought this as a revenue source and should have similar criteria.

These services would include PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG.

There are other services with competent professionals on staff that could potentially qualify that include SEGS and PCI.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I couldn't care less. >>



Unless you were me, because I honestly believe I care less than you do.

MrEureka

Unless you were me, because I honestly believe I care less than you do.

John - If the ANA can raise hundreds of thousands of dollars a year through such endorsements without compromising the integrity of the organization, those funds could be deployed towards education efforts, including, perhaps, scholarships for YNs that want to study colonial coins with Pistareen at the ANA Summer Seminar.

Longacre

I vote with my pocketbook, and will use the TPG that I feel provides the best value/service/accurate product. It does not matter to me who the ANA endorses. I wonder if there was a more efficient and less subjective way for the ANA to raise revenue.

RYK

I got a pretty good chuckle across the street when a forum member there told me that one of the reasons he favors NGC is that they are the official grading service of the esteemed and hallowed ANA. If they were good enough for the ANA, they are good enough for him.

If I were PCGS or NGC, I would not bribe the ANA for the endorsement. I agree with Barndog that the marketplace dictates who is on top, not an organization like the ANA.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>I got a pretty good chuckle across the street when a forum member there told me that one of the reasons he favors NGC is that they are the official grading service of the esteemed and hallowed ANA. If they were good enough for the ANA, they are good enough for him. >>



I wish I could share the chuckle over this, but I can't. An endorsement of any one TPG is tantamount to an endorsement of their grading standards, and as can be seen from the quote above, there are people out there who take this endorsement quite literally.

MrEureka

Julian hints at a viable option when he mentions "Competency & Responsibility". I take this to mean that the ANA would, upon application by a TPG, determine if the TPG is competent. If they pass the test, then the TPG would pay a (most probably very large) licensing fee and agree to subject itself to the ANA's control. This might mean, for example, that disputes with a TPG could be resolved through ANA mediation. Of course everyone will have his own ideas on how this would work, but the bottom line is that the ANA doesn't need to "endorse" TPGs. It can instead offer value to the entire community.

ziggy29

<< <i>Julian hints at a viable option when he mentions "Competency & Responsibility". I take this to mean that the ANA would, upon application by a TPG, determine if the TPG is competent. If they pass the test, then the TPG would pay a (most probably very large) licensing fee and agree to subject itself to the ANA's control. This might mean, for example, that disputes with a TPG could be resolved through ANA mediation. Of course everyone will have his own ideas on how this would work, but the bottom line is that the ANA doesn't need to "endorse" TPGs. It can instead offer value to the entire community. >>

Agreed. It should be about more than just lining the ANA's pockets. Perhaps the ANA should just set minimum standards for professionalism, accuracy, consistency and customer service. And perhaps mediation/arbitration as well. And any TPG that wants the ANA's "seal of approval" would have to meet these standards. Ideally that would include things like a guarantee to "eat" grossly overgraded coins and fakes that get into their holders.

sTONER

one of the reasons i thought of this post was to see how and who would be getting endorcements and if they did say endorce PCGS and NGC, some people would use their ANA memberships to submit their coins, paper,, stamps,, etc, without being club members of the 2 top grading companies,, therefore reducing monies paid to the 2 grading firms,, and possibly bringing more people on board to ANA membership,, but the higher ups at the ANA seem to be yanking some folks Yodels,,

Bochiman

<< <i>I got a pretty good chuckle across the street when a forum member there told me that one of the reasons he favors NGC is that they are the official grading service of the esteemed and hallowed ANA. If they were good enough for the ANA, they are good enough for him.

If I were PCGS or NGC, I would not bribe the ANA for the endorsement. I agree with Barndog that the marketplace dictates who is on top, not an organization like the ANA. >>



Ok Robert....so i don't have to go there and wade through so many posts , can you just PM who this was or the link? I'm curious now (I have a few guesses I think, but want to know )

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>I got a pretty good chuckle across the street when a forum member there told me that one of the reasons he favors NGC is that they are the official grading service of the esteemed and hallowed ANA. If they were good enough for the ANA, they are good enough for him.

If I were PCGS or NGC, I would not bribe the ANA for the endorsement. I agree with Barndog that the marketplace dictates who is on top, not an organization like the ANA. >>



Ok Robert....so i don't have to go there and wade through so many posts , can you just PM who this was or the link? I'm curious now (I have a few guesses I think, but want to know ) >>



PM Sent

RegistryCoin

Due to their incompetent management, being "officially" associated with the ANA is not a plus in my book. Except for their YN program, as they now stand, the ANA is officious and unnecessary, and being singled out as the "official grading company" is useless at best, tending towards the negative in my mind, misleading, and a waste of money.
A "seal of competency and responsibility" sounds good to me as long as it extends to the (two or four) services that merit it, but I would not respect such acknowledgement if the TPG(s) paid for it.

TwoSides2aCoin

I am a member of the ANA and PCGS gets my endorsement when it comes to grading.
I really do not understand the position of the ANA except to say : "hey boys, we're starting a good ole boys club and you can join, too".

I just don't get it.

Gemineye

Endorsement for ..what...??? Haven't ANA and PNG endorsed NGC.???...For putting first release on Box 1 and Box 2 and Box 3 etc.You get the point.How about some credibility in Numismatics..?!?!!

BobGreene

<< <i>I'd like to see them get the money without compromising the integrity of the organization. It's a worthy challenge. >>



With Cipoletti in charge the organization's integrity is already compromised.

Julian

If the organizations have a seal instead of an endorsement, then it certainly does have value to the public.

The organizations would have to scrutinize the applicant services, but I believe that it would be very helpful to numimatics in general, especially as seen by the Ebay consumer and others that have a question about the "certified" aspect of numismatics.

Sophisticated, experienced numismatists do not need these endorsements, but the general public may very well desire them.

There would need to be a fee involved, but the fact that the amount of money that was being paid by one service could be reduced and that now several competent services could now be approved.

This idea may not be perfect, but it is similar to a Good Housekeeping Seal or a UL certification.

Eventually, the marketplace will dictate which services are worthy of support, but this is a starting place for newer numismatists that feel that they wish to have "certified" numismatic items which we all know includes, paper money, tokens and medals, as well as coins.

flaminio

Julian's got it. The ANA taking a big sack of cash so that some service can claim it's "official" does not serve the collector in any way, shape, or form.

But an ANA "seal of approval" meted out to worthy slabbers would be a huge value. It would also drop some of the barriers for a new slabber to enter the market. Right now, a new slabber has no chance whatsoever against the Big 4. But if they came to market with the ANA seal, a collector could buy their coins with a sense of trust that they're getting what they've paid for.

airedale

<< <i>Julian's got it. The ANA taking a big sack of cash so that some service can claim it's "official" does not serve the collector in any way, shape, or form.

But an ANA "seal of approval" meted out to worthy slabbers would be a huge value. It would also drop some of the barriers for a new slabber to enter the market. Right now, a new slabber has no chance whatsoever against the Big 4. But if they came to market with the ANA seal, a collector could by their coins with a sense of trust that they're getting what they've paid for. >>



Bob, I agree with you & Julian. Anyway this could happen?

sTONER

the ANA with its current leadership (LOL) should be figuring a way to do away or instill on people information about these bullschit grading services that suck moosekock and rip people off.. us poor schmucks that enjoy the hobby either for collecting or dealing, having to deal with these douschebag grading services screws everything up down the line, theres a few BIG lurkers here that dont post, but read this crap, hopefully soon will drop a bomb for the best

Writersblock

<< <i><< I wonder if the delay means that they are having trouble getting an acceptable offer from the major grading services? I'm sure they wouldn't endorse any of the "third world" services. >>

I agree. The delay means they are looking to get at least what they got last time. My guess is that NGC will get the endorsement again at about the same MONEY. >>


I wouldn't count on that. They probably are having problems geting the same money because in the past the endorsement was exclusive. But during this past year the ANA has ben talking about endorsing more than one service, possibly multiple services. If they do then the endorsement loses a lot of its potential value and it becomes very dificult to get fees of several hundred thousand dollars for the endorsement.



<< <i>I'd like to see them get the money without compromising the integrity of the organization. It's a worthy challenge. >>


If you don't want to compromise your integrity, the endorsement needs to be based on standards of excellence but in that case it has to be open to all who can qualify. Then if you want the fee to be high you have to be able to demenstrate that it is WORTH the fee and you aren't merely acting on greed.

SeaEagleCoins

I, for one, do not have total faith in any grading services...too much room for "the subjective nature of grading"...and no industry standard. Subjectivity may apply to MS coins but IMO grading of circ coins is a simple matter of technical application. If the ANA would decide to apply its' Grading Standards to the grading services and eliminate the ever fluctuating "Market Grading Standard"...then this half-baked plan of theirs might have some merit.

I am presently a member of the ANA...I considered a Lifetime Membership this year...considering the many developments with the ANA right now, I opted to just extend my membership for one more year. Just like our government politics in the US...there seem to be too many people involved who, by the very nature of their personal business ties/interests, most likely have their own private agenda... and I am concerned that they are not as concerned with the Numismatic Community as they are their own personal goals. I don't know for sure so I am taking a wait and see attitude.

How they end up handling this TPGS situation will help me make that decision...

Perhaps, if all the BIG TIME DEALERS & AUCTION HOUSES got together and offered a small % of all their transactions to the ANA as a TAX DEDUCTIBLE donation...then the ANA could concentrate on public education/service as, I believe, was intended...and stay out of the business end of things altogether.

If they do go ahead with this plan without applying an industry standard for grading...then I think the plan has no merit for the coin collecting community.

Newcomp103

It will be interesting to see what happens....I heard about this early in 2006.

dorancoins

<< <i>im curious as to see whats going to happen with the ANA and the grading services,, they extended there talks to the charlotte show,and now extended it even further,, the group running the ANA now seem to be good at delaying things,, >>



Surprise, surprise - or actually, not surprised at all. I think the endorsing of the grading services is one big joke, and in my campaign for the ANA Board, I stated that I am strongly opposed to any endorsement of any grading service as I feel that doing such gives them preferential treatment. As everyone knows, grading services, like grading itself, is not equal.

TwoSides2aCoin

It would be a great benefit to everyone involved if each TPG was at least held to the task of PROPERLY grading using the Sheldon Scale that is tweaked with a little more science and a lot less opinion, but as Robert so eloquently pointed out; until we remove the "SUBJECTIVE" nature of grading, there will never really be a "STANDARD" practice in the grading department, so any endorsement is going to look like a band-aid on a jugular vein that's burst open.

Why ? Because men of integrity have accepted SUBJECTIVITY as an excuse for mistakes previously made.

(strong opinion, but it's mine )

dtkk49a

ANA should remain neutral when it comes to TPG's. If not, how can they speak honestly about any of them ?
But then again, I could care less what the ANA does. They are more insignificant now than ever before.

BrianKuszmar

Hey Great! ANA has found another pocket to worm into, or is it the other way around?

Fwiw, my father has resigned his life membership only to be told that they will not accept his resignation, he is on his second certified letter to them asking why they will not accept his resignation.
I wonder how many life members were/are upset enough and have the cajones to resign because of the sleazy politics and going on's..?

Imo it's all about lining the pockets of insiders, in a nutshell, sleazy self serving politics that look out for there own inside buddies. I have never been a member more than a year or two in the last 30 years, and only to attend the occasional show. On another note, It has always surprised me that no fed agency has ever investigated many of the "Going on's" that have been rumored to be happening, I suspect someone will blow whistles one day.

O-well

Regards to all

Michigan

<< <i>ANA should remain neutral when it comes to TPG's. If not, how can they speak honestly about any of them ?
But then again, I could care less what the ANA does. They are more insignificant now than ever before. >>




The ANA has their own grading guide yet they feel the need to "endorse" a grading service? The whole thing just seems weird.

Of course it is all just a potential money source for the ANA, that comes before anything else it seems.

Why not go the way of sports leagues and have an official ANA soft drink etc. at the ANA convention?

dorancoins

<< <i>Hey Great! ANA has found another pocket to worm into, or is it the other way around?

Fwiw, my father has resigned his life membership only to be told that they will not accept his resignation, he is on his second certified letter to them asking why they will not accept his resignation.
I wonder how many life members were/are upset enough and have the cajones to resign because of the sleazy politics and going on's..?

Imo it's all about lining the pockets of insiders, in a nutshell, sleazy self serving politics that look out for there own inside buddies. I have never been a member more than a year or two in the last 30 years, and only to attend the occasional show. On another note, It has always surprised me that no fed agency has ever investigated many of the "Going on's" that have been rumored to be happening, I suspect someone will blow whistles one day.

O-well

Regards to all >>



As far as blowing the whistle, the sooner, the better!

BobGreene

<< <i>The ANA has their own grading guide yet they feel the need to "endorse" a grading service? The whole thing just seems weird. >>



Not only that, but the ANA endorsed grading service doesn't follow the ANA grading guidlines! If the ANA is to endorse any service, that service should at least abide by the ANA's own published standards.

RegistryCoin

<< <i>The ANA has their own grading guide yet they feel the need to "endorse" a grading service? The whole thing just seems weird.

Not only that, but the ANA endorsed grading service doesn't follow the ANA grading guidlines! If the ANA is to endorse any service, that service should at least abide by the ANA's own published standards. >>


These are very good points. They emphasize that the ANA is only accepting an endorsement for the money. It also makes very clear their lack of determination to uphold their own standards, showing their lack of integrity, and gives greater reason for them to adopt Julian's suggested "seal of competency and responsibility" if they were to decide that integrity was a desirable attribute.

leothelyon

I think the ANA should take back that little holder ANACS is fading out and start their own little grading service again.

Leo