Will Dice-K really be worth the money?
Blumpkin
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<< <i>Nothing to discuss, one of the worst signings in the history of baseball. 51 million just to talk to someone...what a joke...baseball needs to get their revenue sharing in-line before they lose more fans. >>
Agreed on it is foolish to spend $$ just to talk but with a Japanese market it could be worth the money they make from that perspective. As far as Dice-K the pitcher goes he could be great until hitters learn his stuff or he could flop under the pressure that comes with a big time franchise. My feelings are he will be 15-9 type pitcher, hopefully better but to early to tell.
<< <i>Hideki Irabu anyone? >>
Yes that has crossed my mind a few times.......
<< <i>There are 17 BUSES of japanese reporters at Spring training, Sox tickets will be sold out...again, there is already controversy to increase ratings. The KID is huge, a bit smaller then size of Clemens when he started with the sox, not your typical Japanese guy. He has also thrown ALOT of pitches for his age, he is not a rookie by any means. NO major leaguers have seen ANY of his pitches, and probably wont get used to his style until after the all -star game. Schilling seems to be impressed with him over the last few days. i think he will do just fine...well.... ok I'm a little bias
I can attest to the attention here in Ft. Myers. It's pretty crazy. Between the tourist season and Dice K season us locals can't get a decent seat in sushi bar!
No problem though as long as you drop plenty of caysheesh while you're here. Don't forget to generously tip the wait staff and barmaids.
Haven't been down to the park yet but plan to in March. Twins complex is three miles up the road, Bosox six.
He seems to be a little heavier than when they signed him? They'll whip him into shape.
If you think this kid and Clemens are huge did you ever get a load of Hideki Irabu?
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
Matsuzaka is no Irabu. I'd prepare myself to be pretty impressed by him this upcoming season. Sour fans who say things like "worst contract ever in the history of baseball" fail to see how important it was for the Red Sox (and not the Yankees or the Mets) to sign him, and open the lines of communication between Boston and other Japanese teams. It looks as if many more (and not less) top players are going to emerge from that part of the world over the next several years - kudos to Theo and the Red Sox for recognizing this, and beating the evil Yankees at their own game by doing their homework, and getting the signing done.
I am a Yankee fan but for your sake I hope you are right about Matsuzaka...NOT. LOL
"The answer was in the Patriots eyes. Gone were the swagger and c0ck sure smirks, replaced by downcast eyes and heads in hands. For his poise and leadership Eli Manning was named the game's MVP. The 2007 Giants were never perfect nor meant to be. They were fighters, scrappers....now they could be called something else, World Champions."
I say the bigger question is Papelbon. How is he going to be this year? as young as he is already having shoulder problems last year. Now lets just throw him to the lions and make him pitch 200+ innings. I think its a stupid idea. He is one of the best if not the best closer in the game right now. That is the biggest hole that we have not filled yet. And one of the most important holes. I have a bad feeling that we are going to end up back with Grady Little closer by committy. Not a good idea
108-60
2.95 ERA
1355 K's
1402 2/3 innings
I think the scouting report will be fully developed on him by the end of April, and I cannot image him being the savior that many are touting him as. His presence will not lead to larger attendance figures, as the Red Sox already sell out every home game and draw very well on the road. I think this will be a contract that they wish they not got involved in before the year is out.
I don't understand why anyone thinks the Red Sox have a good team this season quite honestly. And if anyone thinks Papelbon isn't going to have arm issues that quickly develop, I'll book those bets. With all the young talent on Tampa, I think the Sox and Rays will be duking it out for 3rd place behind New York and Toronto (who I think could sneak in and win the division, as they have an excellent team).
Bosox1976
<< <i>Lets hold back on the Dice-K is going to be Pedro talk for about 6 years. Pedro is one the best pitchers we have seen in the last 40 years and Dice-K hasn't even thrown a pitch. Do you even know what kind of numbers he put up in Japan, didn't think so, lemme help. He was clearly a good pitcher the last 8 years, but that was in Japan against far less talent. He also had two long stays on the DL in seperate seasons. His team never won a title or playoff game. Just dont be cashing your Cy Young check just yet Sox fans.
108-60
2.95 ERA
1355 K's
1402 2/3 innings >>
Im sure you did a ton of research in helping us out with Dice's stats (googling is tuff ,I know) his records in Japan are very good #'s and as far as his teams never winning a title or playoff games means what? He did not play on dominant teams with probably not the best run support yet posting a well above .500 win #'s counts for something....A very good pitcher, the Red Sox scouts see a lot of potential, believe that.
It is, of course, way too early to form any judgements. Let the man pitch a few games, and then lets revisit this topic. I think the Sox are already ahead of the game with this signing, but time will tell.
And, on the subject of the AL East - Boston third, behind Toronto and the Yankees? C'mon, now.
The Red Sox were the only team in the AL East to significantly upgrade their team this season. Say what you want about J.D. Drew, but look at his numbers. Put him behind Ortiz and Manny, and the one place the Sox needed help with last season (RBI's from the 5th spot in the lineup) becomes a non-issue. Starting pitching is strong, with Schilling-Beckett-DiceK-Papelbon-Wakefield (and Lester waiting for a chance, now that he's healthy again). I will grant you some questions about the bullpen, but other than that - what have the Yankees done? Sign Andy Pettitte again? If you want to Google some stats, Google his numbers against AL hitters (from interleague play) the last three seasons, and you get an idea what you are in for as he returns to a tough hitting AL. They are also relying on Carl Pavano to pitch - need I say more?
Toronto will do just as they always have done - play well, but come up short. I give them credit for competing, and I like Halladay and Ryan a lot, but do they really have what it takes to win the toughest division in baseball? Maybe I'm missing something, but did they make any other improvements in their club this off-season?
<< <i>
And, on the subject of the AL East - Boston third, behind Toronto and the Yankees? C'mon, now.
The Red Sox were the only team in the AL East to significantly upgrade their team this season. Say what you want about J.D. Drew, but look at his numbers. Put him behind Ortiz and Manny, and the one place the Sox needed help with last season (RBI's from the 5th spot in the lineup) becomes a non-issue. Starting pitching is strong, with Schilling-Beckett-DiceK-Papelbon-Wakefield (and Lester waiting for a chance, now that he's healthy again). I will grant you some questions about the bullpen, but other than that - what have the Yankees done? Sign Andy Pettitte again? If you want to Google some stats, Google his numbers against AL hitters (from interleague play) the last three seasons, and you get an idea what you are in for as he returns to a tough hitting AL. They are also relying on Carl Pavano to pitch - need I say more?
Toronto will do just as they always have done - play well, but come up short. I give them credit for competing, and I like Halladay and Ryan a lot, but do they really have what it takes to win the toughest division in baseball? Maybe I'm missing something, but did they make any other improvements in their club this off-season? >>
Toronto has made a couple tremendous improvements to its team, but most people don't think much of them. Adding Frank Thomas was a great move as they had very little production from the DH slot last year and his presence in that line-up will further protect Glaus, Wells & Overbay (who is always under-rated). Sure he's a liability on the basepaths, but what team doesn't have 1 or 2 guys who can't run? Additionally, Toronto should be able to look forward to a full season from A.J. Burnett, who is a dominating strikeout pitcher. If Chacin can stay healthy for most of the year, he is a solid 3 pitcher, while Okha and Thompson can both chew up innings with ERA's slightly over 4. The Toronto line-up is strong enough to keep them in the game when they start. Especially since Rios finally figured out how to play, Reed Johnson should show additional improvement, and their bullpen is solid.
Toronto will be the team to beat in the AL East this season.
The Red Sox don't have the chemistry or bullpen to win. Manny causes too many problems, the brutal media coverage has to weigh on the players eventually, and the skill level of several key veterans has declined substantially (Varitek, Wakefield, Timlin, even Schilling & Beckett to a lesser degree).
Don't toss Tampa aside quickly either, that team is up-and-coming fast. Their line-up is full of young, potent bats, lots of speed, and a very dominating pitcher leading the way (Kazmir).
The toughest division in baseball, make no mistake about it, is the AL Central. The Indians, Tigers and White Sox all have excellent teams this year, and had Minnesota not lost Liriano, they would have been a powerhouse again also.
Manny has been doing the same thing for years now - yet he still produces. I admit the bullpen is a tough spot, but Boston has made some minor upgrades there (signing Donnelly, who was rock solid in Anaheim for years - and Pineiro) and there is no doubt Beckett is a much better pitcher than he showed last season. I still think Drew is a huge addition, and don't forget Papelbon to the starting rotation. I'm very optimistic regarding this season.
Im sure you did a ton of research in helping us out with Dice's stats (googling is tuff ,I know) his records in Japan are very good #'s and as far as his teams never winning a title or playoff games means what? He did not play on dominant teams with probably not the best run support yet posting a well above .500 win #'s counts for something....A very good pitcher, the Red Sox scouts see a lot of potential, believe that. >>
Perk - Never once did I say I did any research, my source for this one was Wikipedia. I just cannot believe how many people are so quick to hand something to someone before they have even stepped on a field, court or mound. I guess these Red Sox scouts are the same ones who see potential in JD Drew....crash and burn baby
<< <i>Im sure you did a ton of research in helping us out with Dice's stats (googling is tuff ,I know) his records in Japan are very good #'s and as far as his teams never winning a title or playoff games means what? He did not play on dominant teams with probably not the best run support yet posting a well above .500 win #'s counts for something....A very good pitcher, the Red Sox scouts see a lot of potential, believe that. >>
Perk - Never once did I say I did any research, my source for this one was Wikipedia. I just cannot believe how many people are so quick to hand something to someone before they have even stepped on a field, court or mound. I guess these Red Sox scouts are the same ones who see potential in JD Drew....crash and burn baby >>
OK..whatever your source is, thats fine as I do the same thing. I agree that we should let Dice-K pitch before we crown him a potential Pedro Martinez type pitcher, that being said we should not call him out as a waste of money yet right? As far as the Sox crashing and burning goes JD Drew did get overpaid but there are a ton of clauses in that contract of his to cover their a$$ incase of him ("most likely" i should say) getting injured, remember this though Drew is in place to cover the loss of Trot Nixon, NOT to carry the team offensively. The Red Sox have taken a shot to drastically better the team, the upside outweighs the downside. Again "crash and burn" ? Your cracking me up.....
<< <i>Was Trot Nixon that important to the Red Sox? Here in Cleveland, we continue to laugh at that signing as one of the worst this off-season. Time will tell in all cases >>
Thats exactly what Im saying, JD Drew is taking Trots place...a considerable upgrade!!! And you are correct sir, time will tell in all cases. Who really knows? Trot could be a Triple Crown winner this season, thats why we let the games be played
<< <i>
<< <i>
And, on the subject of the AL East - Boston third, behind Toronto and the Yankees? C'mon, now.
The Red Sox were the only team in the AL East to significantly upgrade their team this season. Say what you want about J.D. Drew, but look at his numbers. Put him behind Ortiz and Manny, and the one place the Sox needed help with last season (RBI's from the 5th spot in the lineup) becomes a non-issue. Starting pitching is strong, with Schilling-Beckett-DiceK-Papelbon-Wakefield (and Lester waiting for a chance, now that he's healthy again). I will grant you some questions about the bullpen, but other than that - what have the Yankees done? Sign Andy Pettitte again? If you want to Google some stats, Google his numbers against AL hitters (from interleague play) the last three seasons, and you get an idea what you are in for as he returns to a tough hitting AL. They are also relying on Carl Pavano to pitch - need I say more?
Toronto will do just as they always have done - play well, but come up short. I give them credit for competing, and I like Halladay and Ryan a lot, but do they really have what it takes to win the toughest division in baseball? Maybe I'm missing something, but did they make any other improvements in their club this off-season? >>
Toronto has made a couple tremendous improvements to its team, but most people don't think much of them. Adding Frank Thomas was a great move as they had very little production from the DH slot last year and his presence in that line-up will further protect Glaus, Wells & Overbay (who is always under-rated). Sure he's a liability on the basepaths, but what team doesn't have 1 or 2 guys who can't run? Additionally, Toronto should be able to look forward to a full season from A.J. Burnett, who is a dominating strikeout pitcher. If Chacin can stay healthy for most of the year, he is a solid 3 pitcher, while Okha and Thompson can both chew up innings with ERA's slightly over 4. The Toronto line-up is strong enough to keep them in the game when they start. Especially since Rios finally figured out how to play, Reed Johnson should show additional improvement, and their bullpen is solid.
Toronto will be the team to beat in the AL East this season.
The Red Sox don't have the chemistry or bullpen to win. Manny causes too many problems, the brutal media coverage has to weigh on the players eventually, and the skill level of several key veterans has declined substantially (Varitek, Wakefield, Timlin, even Schilling & Beckett to a lesser degree).
Don't toss Tampa aside quickly either, that team is up-and-coming fast. Their line-up is full of young, potent bats, lots of speed, and a very dominating pitcher leading the way (Kazmir).
The toughest division in baseball, make no mistake about it, is the AL Central. The Indians, Tigers and White Sox all have excellent teams this year, and had Minnesota not lost Liriano, they would have been a powerhouse again also. >>
First of all, no chemistry? Manny not being able to handle the pressure of the media? Are you on drugs. What has been going on ever since Manny stepped foot in Fenway? The media, it may bother you are right. I wish it didn't cause then according to what you are saying, and that the media weighs too much on the players, Manny without the media should be hitting 65 HRs, 198 RBIs, 200 Runs Scored. WOW thats amazing. I don't care what you say about Manny and how he casues too manny problems. He STILL produces incredible numbers for someone with "so much media critizism". Year in and year out people do nothing but talk s*#T ahout Manny, however he still comes to win. He is still the most feared hitter in the line up. Granted we have D.O. You can say whatever you want about Manny. He is clutch, maybe not as much or in the same aspect as Ortiz, but I will take Manny's Bull%*#$ any day of the for the production we get out of him.
However I do agree with you as far as Toronto is concerned. Whoever said that Toronto is the team to beat in the AL this year is a retard. Go back to knitting. Toronto does the same thing year and year out. Starts of doing great but can't finish. Just like Baltimore. They have their midseason crash and never recover from it. Inm y opinion with the additions the Sox made this offseason, the Sox are defintately the team to beat. Granted they are going to be in serious trouble if they don't get a closer in there. I think we will be seeing Papelbon back in the bullpen earlier than you think this season. I think that he will step up and go back to the bullpen and save games. Other than a closer the sox have a complete team. The best pitching roation that we have seen in years. I think they have a better team than that they won the World Series. Im not saying that the same out come is going to happen, but i think their lineup is going to be feared and it should be.
<< <i>
And, on the subject of the AL East - Boston third, behind Toronto and the Yankees? C'mon, now.
>>
riiiiiiight, Jerry, that was the same song you sung all last winter and spring too. Anyway, if anybody thinks the Yankees did not do wonders to improve themselves this year and beyond with their off season moves then there is alot of wish predicting going on. ALOT of it. Now that the Yankees have superb arms with Phillip Hughes leading the way on the horizon its not so fun to poke fun at the "barron" Yankee system anymore huh? These kids pack a wallop, not the over hyped and WAY over rated group the Sox were touting until most of them melted to the Yankees in that 5 game Sox debacle that sunk their season last year.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Nomo was a good, not great pitcher for a few years, but eventually his stuff was average at best. Why, the hitters were able to adjust to him and Nomo failed to make his chages and this is where Nomo failed, as did Hideki. Take Chien Ming Wang, I bet he is out of the majors in three years. These Japanese pitchers are nothing more than a flash in the pan >>
Actually Chien Ming Wang is Korean, not Japanese
<< <i>
Actually Chien Ming Wang is Korean, not Japanese >>
He is Taiwanese, not Korean
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>
Actually Chien Ming Wang is Korean, not Japanese >>
He is Taiwanese, not Korean
Touché
Ok lets just be happy for starters that Guys are reporting to camp and its going to be fun.
<< <i>iF the Dice man wins 16+ games and gives them 25 quality starts, he will be worth the money. its the price of pitching. >>
He better with that Bad News Bears bullpen !!!!!!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The $51 Million the Red Sox paid to talk to him might as well be chalked up to Marketing money. If anyone has been to the Red Sox store lately in Fenway will see how they are already recouping that $51 Million already. Plus all of the additional money they are generating by selling Sox gear in Japan and in TV broadcasts in Japan. I don't think people will understand the hoopla that will be generated when Seattle comes to town in April. ICHIRO vs. DAISUKE!!
The Red Sox store has Red Sox shirts and hats with Japanese writing. I know a girl who works for the store and told me that nobody is buying Ortiz and Manny anymore. Everyone wants Daisuke. When I was in there a couple of weeks ago the place was mostly filled with Japanese people buying Daisuke stuff and taking pictures inside the store, which I did not understand.
My own personal opinion is that he vaguely reminds me of Pedro. Now Pedro had arguably the best 8 year span for a pitcher EVER. However, in the limited amount of pitching I have seen from Daisuke, it seems like the ball comes out of his hand like it did for Pedro. The same crazy movement and great fastball and changeup. I guess we'll just have to see
- End of Rant -
GO O's
collecting RAW Topps baseball cards 1952 Highs to 1972. looking for collector grade (somewhere between psa 4-7 condition). let me know what you have, I'll take it, I want to finish sets, I must have something you can use for trade.
looking for Topps 71-72 hi's-62-53-54-55-59, I have these sets started
<< <i>
<< <i>iF the Dice man wins 16+ games and gives them 25 quality starts, he will be worth the money. its the price of pitching. >>
He better with that Bad News Bears bullpen !!!!!!
Better that - than a Bad News Bears starting rotation, like they have in the Bronx. How's Carl Pavano doing?
And actually, the Sox pen isn't that bad. I admit, they lack a true closer, but Donnelly was one of the best setup men in baseball for the last few years in Anaheim, and Craig Hansen has tons of potential as a closer for the future. Pineiro and Tavarez have pitched well so far this spring also...any one of those four could be the closer. Hopefully the top notch starting rotation the Sox have assembled will make this a non issue anyway.