“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."
I was extremely disappointed to learn that Heritage apparently has a “Legacy Customer” program, where members are allowed to enter Internet bids until several hours before the start of live bidding.
This allows those individuals to essentially, snipe-at-their-leisure, outbidding other Internet bidders who thought they were high bidders going into the live auction.
I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid.
There is nothing on the Heritage site that documents this policy. It is not listed amongst their six ways to bid.
This was my first and last Signature auction where I will bid through the Internet.
<<I was extremely disappointed to learn that Heritage apparently has a “Legacy Customer” program, where members are allowed to enter Internet bids until several hours before the start of live bidding.
This allows those individuals to essentially, snipe-at-their-leisure, outbidding other Internet bidders who thought they were high bidders going into the live auction.
I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid.>>
If your auctions went into live bidding at exactly your secret maximum bid; you where not out bid by a legacy member you where outbid in the floor auction. Regular internet bidding ends at 10pm the night before the live auction. Legacy internet bidders can bid up to 3 hours before start of the live auction. I am a Legacy member and I won just as many lots by percentage before becoming a Legacy member as since being made a Legacy. The secret to winning lots on Heritage is have the winning bid when the lot closes, not have the winning bid the day before the lot closes. Same as any other auction site; internet or live.
<< <i><<I was extremely disappointed to learn that Heritage apparently has a “Legacy Customer” program, where members are allowed to enter Internet bids until several hours before the start of live bidding.
This allows those individuals to essentially, snipe-at-their-leisure, outbidding other Internet bidders who thought they were high bidders going into the live auction.
I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid.>>
If your auctions went into live bidding at exactly your secret maximum bid; you where not out bid by a legacy member you where outbid in the floor auction. Regular internet bidding ends at 10pm the night before the live auction. Legacy internet bidders can bid up to 3 hours before start of the live auction. I am a Legacy member and I won just as many lots by percentage before becoming a Legacy member as since being made a Legacy. The secret to winning lots on Heritage is have the winning bid when the lot closes, not have the winning bid the day before the lot closes. Same as any other auction site; internet or live. >>
Not true! The jump in bid occurred after the 10PM CST close and several hours prior to the Live auction start, as posted on the bidding status page.
Why are you changing your story now; your exact cut and pasted words where, and I quote "I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid."
Now you are saying they didn't go into live auction at you secret bid amount, please make up your mind!
And it still holds true that in order to win an auction lot you have to have the high bid at hammer fall not the day before!
Lets examine your bids to see where the problems lies:
1) What was your max bid? 2) What was the closing bid amount?
If line 2 is greater than line 1 you lost, get over it and bid on smoething else!
I bid on 10 lots and won 2, that is about average for me!
<< <i>Why are you changing your story now; your exact cut and pasted words where, and I quote "I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid."
Now you are saying they didn't go into live auction at you secret bid amount, please make up your mind!
And it still holds true that in order to win an auction lot you have to have the high bid at hammer fall not the day before!
Lets examine your bids to see where the problems lies:
1) What was your max bid? 2) What was the closing bid amount?
If line 2 is greater than line 1 you lost, get over it and bid on smoething else!
I bid on 10 lots and won 2, that is about average for me! >>
Real cute.
Here are the facts:
The Internet bidding closed with my bid of $2200 and “secret” maximum bid of $2600. That should have given me a chance in the live-bid auction. The status showed:
“Internet Bidding Closed You could still be outbid during the live event on Feb 14, 2007.”
No where does it say I can be outbid by another Internet bidder.
Two hours prior to the live-bid auction, I check my status and see that there is an additional bid entered. My secret maximum bid is in red, indicating that I am no longer high bidder. I no longer have a shot at the live auction, and was outbid before the live event on Feb 14, 2007.
I cannot locate anywhere on the Heritage site that explains that there is a mechanism to be outbid after the close of Internet bidding and prior to the live auction. That is my real complaint.
I wonder how many other Internet bidders, bid in good faith thinking that they had a shot during the live auction, only to be sniped by a non-disclosed insider arrangement?
You're missing the point. I am not upset that I lost because I didn't bid enough. The medal went for more than I was willing to pay.
My complaint is that I lost to an Internet bidder who entered his bid after the close of Internet bidding, though a mechanism that is undisclosed by Heritage, as far as I can tell. It did not go to a floor bidder.
Those bids could have also been placed by a dealer at the show prior to the auction.
I can see your point if you were just bidding against other internet only bidders (with no live auction), that wouldn't seem quite fair, but you're also competing against floor bidders. The Legacy customers are at the same disadvantage.
<< <i>Those bids could have also been placed by a dealer at the show prior to the auction.
I can see your point if you were just bidding against other internet only bidders (with no live auction), that wouldn't seem quite fair, but you're also competing against floor bidders. The Legacy customers are at the same disadvantage.
The live bidders always have the advantage. >>
The lot went to the Internet bidder. It did not go to a live floor bidder!
I am a Legacy customer. I suspect that it requires spending over some amount of money with Heritage. Alternatively, I've filled out the Heritage surveys sent via the ANA o ver the years and perhaps the value of my collection has made me one of their Legacy customers. But I do not know what it takes to be a Legacy customer. For what it's worth, I spent essentially nothing at Heritage all last year, but I remained a Legacy customer. In addition to a later biding deadline, there are also some other benefits from being a Legacy customer. I believe that Heritage has a room for Legacy customers at the big shows, but I've never taken advantage of this.
Re LickThose Stamps: 1) I won a lot in the Long Beach auction, but I entered my bid before the regular deadline, not the Legacy deadline. The trick was to have the high bid at the end of the auction. (LTS--the last sentence was said with a BIG ; it's definitely not a slam at you!) 2) It is possible to bid on eBay Live for this auction. Of course, you pay an extra 5%.
Same as you Mark; I was in Macau, China most of last year so I wasn't bidding in Heritage auctions and the two coins I won I had my bids in on two days before the bidding dead line! Legacy's cannot snipe live auctions because they have to have their bids in minimum 3 hours befor the start of the session.
Very cool SCD! Any idea why they called the Ferris wheel a "Firth wheel"? Plus the wheel looks huge. Based on the technology of the time, I am not sure how eager I'd have been to ride the old Firth wheel!
Just got back today. I bought my very first coin through auction - Lot 5997, A very original PCGS MS66 Connecticut for $650, $747.50 with the juice. Greysheet bid is $875. John Agre from Colonial Coin Union was kind enough to preview 6 lots for me, and blessed only this lot.
I'll try to write up a show report later and post it in the forum.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
Very cool SCD! Any idea why they called the Ferris wheel a "Firth wheel"? Plus the wheel looks huge. Based on the technology of the time, I am not sure how eager I'd have been to ride the old Firth wheel! >>
It was a smaller version of the giant Ferris Wheel used at the 1893 Columbian exhibition, built for the midwinter exhibition.
Here is some interesting info on the disposition of the Firth Wheel:
“JUNKMAN AT LAST GETS FIRTH WHEEL AT CLIFF Relicof Midwinter Fair Will Be Torn Down Today
The Firth wheel, the circular and rusty monument of the Midwinter fair, which has stood on the bluff near Sutro's baths, is to be overturned today and reduced to junk. The old wheel was damaged by storm a fortnight ago. The clutches were broken so that the wheel revolved in the windstorm. It can be of no possible use as a wheel and may serve some purpose as junk, so will be torn down.
The Firth wheel, built in imitation of the monster Ferris wheel, the sensation of the world's fair at Chicago, was one of the popular attractions at the Midwinter fair in 1894. At the conclusion of that exposition the wheel, with a number of other concession structures was removed to the vicinity of the Cliff house, where a perpetual midway was to have been established. The investment was not profitable, and the wheel has stood out on the cliff, of no more use than a fishhook in a desert.
Its day is done. Tonight it will be a pile of junk and will be carried off for old iron.
There is some character to the stability of the old wheel, however. It lived from the days of the Midwinter fair of 1894 for 17 years, until the great Panama-Pacific exposition had been launched.
It always amazes me, the just high enough mentality. Criminey folks! If you seriously like a coin bid SERIOUSLY on it. Yes, you may pay through the nose, but normally the good coins at a major auction are going to go for what they are worth. As a collector what's the BFD? I like the coins I buy, and I know that the people that like this sort of material will probably pay through the nose in the future for them.
If you're buying to flip that's another matter entirely.
I didn't bid on the Heritage auction, but bid on the Goldberg auction... was 2 for 2 for Frankies and 2 out of 4 for Morgans.
Anyone who bids on the internet WITHOUT having seen the coins in hand pays too much.Heritage images are very tough to figure.Same goes for the other auction houses.JMHO
Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!
I guess I'm a legacy customer, I do not know why, but I went for the Washington Quarters and started biddin on the net 3 days before the action went to the floor live on the 15th. I bid on appx. 30 MS 67 quarters and was pretty aggressive on some of them. Know how many I got ??? two. I got creamed. I'm going back to "buy it now".
I picked up a nice Liberty Nickel and cheap. The coin was literally as nice as two I saw on the floor and I got it for much less $. I was shocked. My first auction coin in three years.
I was looking at Barber Halves and Liberty Nickels. Both were weak @ the auction & many did not sell. Re the Barber Halves, I think the reserves for many coins were too strong. Think they had an 04 S in 5 which didn't sell. Those rarely become available.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I don't know if the Legacy bidding deal is a secret as they have put that literature out there in a lot places. While I am a Legacy member I've never taken advantage of the 3 hour before auction rule. If I'm not the high bidder days before the auction, chances are I bid enough, so let the other guy have it.
I was surprised that some of the colorful seated proofs in the Goldberg sale (esp halves) didn't bring more. Most were NGC. The Heritage sale had a number of MS65 Saints sell to the internet at $1207.50. That's pretty cheap for MS65 saints even if spotted or low end.
<< <i>I don't know if the Legacy bidding deal is a secret as they have put that literature out there in a lot places. While I am a Legacy member I've never taken advantage of the 3 hour before auction rule. If I'm not the high bidder days before the auction, chances are I bid enough, so let the other guy have it.
roadrunner >>
The bottom line is that they don’t disclose that information to the other Internet bidders. It is stated in several different places during the Internet bidding, that one still has a chance to be outbid on the floor of the live auction. No where is it disclosed that certain insiders have the “privilege” of sniping your high Internet bid, at their leisure and keep you from having a chance at competing on the floor.
In my opinion, this is plain wrong. Other Internet bidders should be forewarned.
While at the show, Julian recommended to me son that he look at lot 4325. So we sign up and get ou bidder number, then we go look a the coin - Laura's 54-S quarter eagle! The YN asks for, and receives a catalog from the nice ladies at Heritage, and then we trapse up to the auction room. We have a seat and a couple of minutes later, lot 4325 comes up for bid. Dad pulls out the bidder card and sits on it - no room for mistakes here! We then watch the floor action and the coin hammer for $300,000. The YN thought all of this was "cool!".
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
BaronVonBaugh
Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
Linky
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Addition:
Upgrade:
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
LINK
This allows those individuals to essentially, snipe-at-their-leisure, outbidding other Internet bidders who thought they were high bidders going into the live auction.
I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid.
There is nothing on the Heritage site that documents this policy. It is not listed amongst their six ways to bid.
This was my first and last Signature auction where I will bid through the Internet.
I'm sure it's harder to catch a bargain.
This allows those individuals to essentially, snipe-at-their-leisure, outbidding other Internet bidders who thought they were high bidders going into the live auction.
I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid.>>
If your auctions went into live bidding at exactly your secret maximum bid; you where not out bid by a legacy member you where outbid in the floor auction. Regular internet bidding ends at 10pm the night before the live auction. Legacy internet bidders can bid up to 3 hours before start of the live auction. I am a Legacy member and I won just as many lots by percentage before becoming a Legacy member as since being made a Legacy. The secret to winning lots on Heritage is have the winning bid when the lot closes, not have the winning bid the day before the lot closes. Same as any other auction site; internet or live.
<< <i><<I was extremely disappointed to learn that Heritage apparently has a “Legacy Customer” program, where members are allowed to enter Internet bids until several hours before the start of live bidding.
This allows those individuals to essentially, snipe-at-their-leisure, outbidding other Internet bidders who thought they were high bidders going into the live auction.
I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid.>>
If your auctions went into live bidding at exactly your secret maximum bid; you where not out bid by a legacy member you where outbid in the floor auction. Regular internet bidding ends at 10pm the night before the live auction. Legacy internet bidders can bid up to 3 hours before start of the live auction. I am a Legacy member and I won just as many lots by percentage before becoming a Legacy member as since being made a Legacy. The secret to winning lots on Heritage is have the winning bid when the lot closes, not have the winning bid the day before the lot closes. Same as any other auction site; internet or live. >>
Not true! The jump in bid occurred after the 10PM CST close and several hours prior to the Live auction start, as posted on the bidding status page.
Now you are saying they didn't go into live auction at you secret bid amount, please make up your mind!
And it still holds true that in order to win an auction lot you have to have the high bid at hammer fall not the day before!
Lets examine your bids to see where the problems lies:
1) What was your max bid?
2) What was the closing bid amount?
If line 2 is greater than line 1 you lost, get over it and bid on smoething else!
I bid on 10 lots and won 2, that is about average for me!
I saw numerous coins selling for far in excess of the internet bids. Dealers don't run up interent bids, they bid live or have someone do it for them.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>Why are you changing your story now; your exact cut and pasted words where, and I quote "I lost four lots after Internet bidding closed. Coincidentally, they went into live bidding at exactly my “secret” maximum bid."
Now you are saying they didn't go into live auction at you secret bid amount, please make up your mind!
And it still holds true that in order to win an auction lot you have to have the high bid at hammer fall not the day before!
Lets examine your bids to see where the problems lies:
1) What was your max bid?
2) What was the closing bid amount?
If line 2 is greater than line 1 you lost, get over it and bid on smoething else!
I bid on 10 lots and won 2, that is about average for me! >>
Real cute.
Here are the facts:
The Internet bidding closed with my bid of $2200 and “secret” maximum bid of $2600. That should have given me a chance in the live-bid auction. The status showed:
“Internet Bidding Closed
You could still be outbid during the live event on Feb 14, 2007.”
No where does it say I can be outbid by another Internet bidder.
Two hours prior to the live-bid auction, I check my status and see that there is an additional bid entered. My secret maximum bid is in red, indicating that I am no longer high bidder. I no longer have a shot at the live auction, and was outbid before the live event on Feb 14, 2007.
I cannot locate anywhere on the Heritage site that explains that there is a mechanism to be outbid after the close of Internet bidding and prior to the live auction. That is my real complaint.
I wonder how many other Internet bidders, bid in good faith thinking that they had a shot during the live auction, only to be sniped by a non-disclosed insider arrangement?
You should have placed a higher bid?
What'd the lot sell for?
<< <i>You should have placed a higher bid?
What'd the lot sell for? >>
You're missing the point. I am not upset that I lost because I didn't bid enough. The medal went for more than I was willing to pay.
My complaint is that I lost to an Internet bidder who entered his bid after the close of Internet bidding, though a mechanism that is undisclosed by Heritage, as far as I can tell. It did not go to a floor bidder.
I can see your point if you were just bidding against other internet only bidders (with no live auction), that wouldn't seem quite fair, but you're also competing against floor bidders. The Legacy customers are at the same disadvantage.
The live bidders always have the advantage.
<< <i>Those bids could have also been placed by a dealer at the show prior to the auction.
I can see your point if you were just bidding against other internet only bidders (with no live auction), that wouldn't seem quite fair, but you're also competing against floor bidders. The Legacy customers are at the same disadvantage.
The live bidders always have the advantage. >>
The lot went to the Internet bidder. It did not go to a live floor bidder!
Re LickThose Stamps:
1) I won a lot in the Long Beach auction, but I entered my bid before the regular deadline, not the Legacy deadline. The trick was to have the high bid at the end of the auction. (LTS--the last sentence was said with a BIG
2) It is possible to bid on eBay Live for this auction. Of course, you pay an extra 5%.
<< <i>Anybody else get anything? >>
I won this one!
Very cool SCD! Any idea why they called the Ferris wheel a "Firth wheel"? Plus the wheel looks huge. Based on the technology of the time, I am not sure how eager I'd have been to ride the old Firth wheel!
I'll try to write up a show report later and post it in the forum.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>SCDHunter:
Very cool SCD! Any idea why they called the Ferris wheel a "Firth wheel"? Plus the wheel looks huge. Based on the technology of the time, I am not sure how eager I'd have been to ride the old Firth wheel!
It was a smaller version of the giant Ferris Wheel used at the 1893 Columbian exhibition, built for the midwinter exhibition.
Here is some interesting info on the disposition of the Firth Wheel:
“JUNKMAN AT LAST GETS FIRTH WHEEL AT CLIFF
Relicof Midwinter Fair Will Be Torn Down Today
The Firth wheel, the circular and rusty monument of the Midwinter fair, which has stood on the bluff near Sutro's baths, is to be overturned today and reduced to junk. The old wheel was damaged by storm a fortnight ago. The clutches were broken so that the wheel revolved in the windstorm. It can be of no possible use as a wheel and may serve some purpose as junk, so will be torn down.
The Firth wheel, built in imitation of the monster Ferris wheel, the sensation of the world's fair at Chicago, was one of the popular attractions at the Midwinter fair in 1894. At the conclusion of that exposition the wheel, with a number of other concession structures was removed to the vicinity of the Cliff house, where a perpetual midway was to have been established. The investment was not profitable, and the wheel has stood out on the cliff, of no more use than a fishhook in a desert.
Its day is done. Tonight it will be a pile of junk and will be carried off for old iron.
There is some character to the stability of the old wheel, however. It lived from the days of the Midwinter fair of 1894 for 17 years, until the great Panama-Pacific exposition had been launched.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: San Francisco Call, 14 March 1911, page 21.”
Ref: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sf/history/hgoe66.htm
If you're buying to flip that's another matter entirely.
I didn't bid on the Heritage auction, but bid on the Goldberg auction... was 2 for 2 for Frankies and 2 out of 4 for Morgans.
U.S. Type Set
I was looking at Barber Halves and Liberty Nickels. Both were weak @ the auction & many did not sell.
Re the Barber Halves, I think the reserves for many coins were too strong. Think they had an 04 S in 5 which didn't sell. Those rarely become available.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I was surprised that some of the colorful seated proofs in the Goldberg sale (esp halves) didn't bring more. Most were NGC.
The Heritage sale had a number of MS65 Saints sell to the internet at $1207.50. That's pretty cheap for MS65 saints even if spotted or low end.
roadrunner
<< <i>I don't know if the Legacy bidding deal is a secret as they have put that literature out there in a lot places. While I am a Legacy member I've never taken advantage of the 3 hour before auction rule. If I'm not the high bidder days before the auction, chances are I bid enough, so let the other guy have it.
roadrunner >>
The bottom line is that they don’t disclose that information to the other Internet bidders. It is stated in several different places during the Internet bidding, that one still has a chance to be outbid on the floor of the live auction. No where is it disclosed that certain insiders have the “privilege” of sniping your high Internet bid, at their leisure and keep you from having a chance at competing on the floor.
In my opinion, this is plain wrong. Other Internet bidders should be forewarned.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye