Please held identify this medal?

ipmman

Thanks!

farthing

ipmman

Just wanted to push this to the top of the forum to see if anyone new comes across it that can identify it?

TwoKopeiki

No idea, but the legend says ... "CAROLUS FRANCORUM" ?

lordmarcovan

Interesting. Looks almost like a 20th century Goetz medal, from its style and blocky lettering, though of course it's likely to be much older.

Obverse:

CAROLVS FRANCORVM = "Charles of France", but which Charles of France? There were ten King Charleses of France, the last being Charles X in 1824-30. But this chap looks much more medieval in dress. Though the medal probably isn't medieval, the Charles being referred to probably is.

Reverse:

PACATOR = "Pacifier" or "Peacemaker", I believe?

OV(?)NCIARUM (?) Dunno... y'got me, there.

OK, our Charles is dressed in Renaissance style... his hat looks 15th century to me.

So in the 15th century Charleses of France, we have Charles VII (1422-61), and Charles VIII (1483-98). Charles IX doesn't come along until 1560.

Hey, check out this painting of Charles VIII. Kinda looks like our guy, non? Very similar hat... and hawk-beak nose...



I believe I read that Charles VIII signed a bunch of treaties, too. But was he a "peacemaker"? Lots of kings signed treaties. And this one started a series of Franco-Italian wars. History remembers him as "Charles the Affable" and he apparently had a reputation as a nice guy but not as the wisest king or best statesman.

I think it might be Charles VIII of France on that medal. But was the medal struck actually during his reign, circa 1483-98? I suppose it could have been, but my gut feeling tells me no, it's probably a bit later, despite its possible portrayal of a 15th century king.

Interesting piece you have there, and an interesting puzzle, too.

ipmman

Let me add that this piece is definately cast, and not struck.

291fifth

I am in no way knowledgeable on medals of this type, but just have a feeling that is not very old. The workmanship seems to be inferior to that seen on genuine early medals. I wonder if it is just a fantasy piece or perhaps even a prop from a movie or play?

spoon

I dunno, this has more the feel of an early (16-17c.) "restrike" (casting).

The look gives me the vibe of Hungary or Romania, though I have seen Western medals in that sort of crude style.

Useless, I'm sure. But I'll see if I can find anyone who may have a better guess.

ipmman

When I bought this, at least 7 years ago, the flip had an insert with some sort of attribution. It was a catalog # in the usual format, an authors name, then a number. For some reason i remember it being a Papal piece? That flip paper is long gone...

ipmman

Just thought I would post and put this on top again to see if anyone had any info...

STLNATS

Its certainly not papal or probably Italian at all. I think Lord M is close with the attribution of one of the Charles of France given the obverse inscription. I did rummage thru a few older auction catalogues, but with no luck. You might see if the ANA has a cat of French medals that you can borrow.

Casting was very common for ealy larger medals and some of the orignal pieces look crude while other early castings are finely finished.