<< <i>For one, the portion of collectors who are of the ages 18 through 25 is fairly insignificant. Go to a card show...for every 19 year old that comes in with a wad full of cash, there are about 10 30 year olds doing the same....and about 20 40+ year olds throwing down even more money.
When was the last time you went to a show or set up at one?
I'll tell you from hard experience..atleast in my area, your obsevation is totally bazz akward!!
The youth in this area RULE the market...
Yes agreed...some older collectors will drop big $$$ on sets and singles that they need. But time and again..it's the young guys that drop the $$.
I have 2 guys...each no more than 25...each drops $1K-$2K per show between myself and 2-3 other dealers. And I wouldn't even consider them the BIG buyers at the show.
As far as them being fairly insignificant....maybe through a vintage collectors eyes. But I see both sides of the coin at every show...and trust me..(again in New England)....they far outweigh the vintage collectors and by far spend more!!
Hence the 101 threads about..."this show and that show had no vintage...only shiney new cards and modern crap"
It's there because it sells!! >>
No no no. It's not 'this show and that show had no vintage', it's 'this show and that show had no MINT vintage that I could buy, grade and flip for a 300% profit'. That well is, sadly, drying up.
Out of curiosity, what do these kids buy? Hot RC's? Jeter inserts?
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
A lot of players had "good" careers who have cheap or common rookie cards... John Kruk, Kent Hrbek, Andres Gallaraga, Ruben Sierra, Bobby Bonilla, among dozens of other names that could be plunked down. The difference with today's market is the player has one or two rookie cards and all those goofy color low print refractor variations. Being from Minnesota I can tell you Hrbek was and remains very popular but there are so many of his rookie cards floating around that any fan can get one for less than a buck. Even a Topps Pucket rookie can be found for a couple bucks on various venues. The rookies in the Bowman Chrome sets will have far fewer copies than were produced in any 1980's Topps set. As such, a player who ends up having a "good" career will see a premium in rookie card prices relative to solid players from the mass produced 80's era. Thow in some low print run colored refractors and some autos and you have a recipe for astronomical price apreciation for the next player who puts up Griffey Jr type numbers. If Ken Griffey Jr had an autographed Bowman Chrome Gold refractor #/50 as a rookie card I would not be shocked if the thing sold for $20k or more. The Pujols Chrome auto already sells for several thousand dollars in graded mint 9 and that one is #/500. Imagine the price if only 50 copies existed. That is the mentality of card prospectors out there. If you land the next superstar you essentially bought Miscrosoft at IPO. The problem I see is a player like Griffey or Pujols doesn't come around very often. Like the stock market there are more losers than winners along with plenty of stocks that are just dead money. There sure seem to be a heck of a lot more baseball card prospectors out there which has seriously driven up prices of new product to the point where I think the risk outweighs the reward. The people who got in earlier in the decade are laughing all the way to the bank. I get the feeling the people jumping on the bandwagon now are like the folks who jumped on the tech stock bandwagon in the late 90's. Sometime down the road I predict a shakeout which will bring prices of lesser prospects back into line. Those folks who pick out the right prospect will still make plenty of money.
"One you start thinking you're the best then you might as well quit because you wont get any better" - Dale Earnhardt
A lot of players had "good" careers who have cheap or common rookie cards... John Kruk, Kent Hrbek, Andres Gallaraga, Ruben Sierra, Bobby Bonilla, among dozens of other names that could be plunked down. The difference with today's market is the player has one or two rookie cards and all those goofy color low print refractor variations. Being from Minnesota I can tell you Hrbek was and remains very popular but there are so many of his rookie cards floating around that any fan can get one for less than a buck. Even a Topps Pucket rookie can be found for a couple bucks on various venues. The rookies in the Bowman Chrome sets will have far fewer copies than were produced in any 1980's Topps set. As such, a player who ends up having a "good" career will see a premium in rookie card prices relative to solid players from the mass produced 80's era.
Only if there is demand for the player's cards. How much premium is there on the rookie cards of players who had solid careers from the 1940s and 1950s? If they weren't Yankees or Dodgers, unless they were near-HOF status (Colavito, Pinson, and a couple others), few people value them more highly than commons. Hrbek has regional demand (it helps a lot to play your entire career with one team). Kruk became a TV figure after his retirement. Basically no one is looking for Galarraga, Sierra, or Bonilla cards - and Galarraga is not far from HOF caliber.
<< <i>Basically no one is looking for Galarraga, Sierra, or Bonilla cards - and Galarraga is not far from HOF caliber.
Nick >>
Galarraga has a pretty serious group of collectors, I've seen some very strong prices on some of his late 90's inserts and parallels #/100 or less. #/100 might sound like a big number for a modern print run these days but was still tough out of products like 1999 Ultra and Upper Deck. Of course the RCs aren't bringing in strong prices, there's a bazillion 1986 Donruss Rookies and 1986 Topps Traded sets out there. I can't speak for Sierra or Bonilla, but don't knock the marginal HOFer group or rookie classes from 1986-88, many of those players still have a good following and certain inserts and sets from the mid-90's to 2001 or so still command nice prices, especially when they collide with set builders.
And as stated above, the economics are certainly different but the game is still the same. I started doing flea markets back in 1987 with a little card table and could pull in $100-200 in a morning with, what, 1987 Topps and Donruss base cards at the time. By 1991/92 I could pull in $200-600 with a larger spread of tables but similar caliber items, half-price showcases, dollar piles, dime and quarter boxes and binders of all four sports. With the current economics and prices of new unopened product, I see no big deal in someone pulling in 4-figures at a show or flea market if they know what they are doing.
Galarraga has a pretty serious group of collectors, I've seen some very strong prices on some of his late 90's inserts and parallels #/100 or less. #/100 might sound like a big number for a modern print run these days but was still tough out of products like 1999 Ultra and Upper Deck. Of course the RCs aren't bringing in strong prices, there's a bazillion 1986 Donruss Rookies and 1986 Topps Traded sets out there. I can't speak for Sierra or Bonilla, but don't knock the marginal HOFer group or rookie classes from 1986-88, many of those players still have a good following and certain inserts and sets from the mid-90's to 2001 or so still command nice prices, especially when they collide with set builders.
This one is driven by parallel and insert set collectors. Some of the late '90s parallel sets #/100 have 5 to 7 serious set builders, and considering that a particular player's card from a set may come up once on eBay in several years (in fact, I can think of at least 20 players from one 220-card parallel set #/100 issued in 1999 that I have never seen on eBay), you can end up with a fierce bidding war for it. The more mass-market the product was, the tougher the scarce #ed card is to actually find, because so many of them are owned by casual collectors (or people who stopped collecting and packed their cards away) and never come up for sale.
In Galarraga's case, in the late '90s he was still a big enough star that many people thought he would go to the HOF and he had a serious group of player collectors. I think a significant number of his tough cards are held by people who paid a lot in the '90s to have a top Galarraga collection and aren't about to get rid of it for pennies on the dollar - but they're not buying more.
I can think of one star who fizzled out whose player collectors are obsessive enough that his cards bring crazy prices - Penny Hardaway. His #/100 cards often bring more than those of Michael Jordan and top rookies from the same set.
I certainly don't disagree that there is a lot of money to be made in dealing in new cards; I just can't figure out who is buying these to hold for the long-term (until the guy gets called up to the majors does not count as long-term) - and why they think it's a good move.
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
I don't think anybody is. It's like the 'Greater Fool' approach to the stock market. Nobody is holding the card/stock because they think it has a firm foundation-- they're buying it because they're reasonably confident tha they'll find a 'greater fool' down the road who will pay more for it than they did. I bet if you asked a random 100 guys who have bought a $500+ modern RC in the past month if they planned to hold the card until the player retired less than 3% of them would say 'yes'. For most of these guys they're buying it with the hopes that the player in question has a hot pre-season, or gets off to a scorching start in April, or even tears up AA pitching for the first couple months this year-- and then they're going to dump it.
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
I don't think anybody is. It's like the 'Greater Fool' approach to the stock market. Nobody is holding the card/stock because they think it has a firm foundation-- they're buying it because they're reasonably confident tha they'll find a 'greater fool' down the road who will pay more for it than they did. I bet if you asked a random 100 guys who have bought a $500+ modern RC in the past month if they planned to hold the card until the player retired less than 3% of them would say 'yes'. For most of these guys they're buying it with the hopes that the player in question has a hot pre-season, or gets off to a scorching start in April, or even tears up AA pitching for the first couple months this year-- and then they're going to dump it. >>
That's what makes the modern RC market so strange. You're dealing with 'collectibles' (at least in theory), but the collectible in question doesn't have any obvious end user. Who actually wants the unpunched Alex Gordon card just because they're a huge fan of Alex Gordon? Nobody. The entire market is driven by the belief that someone else, at some point down the road, will pay you big money for the card in question. It's like musical chairs, and eventually someone gets left out (i.e., the guy who's stuck holding the card when the player gets demoted, or goes into rehab, or blows out his elbow, etc.). But usually the guy who gets screwed isn't you, so it seems OK. Paying $2000 for a Gold Refractor of some hot new player just seems totally off the chain until you recognize that the guy who bought it is planning on selling it if it's value goes above $2300 or dips below $1700. Then it just looks like a casual gamble. And if the odds are 30% that it will go up, and 70% that it has already hit it's ceiling and will go down, then you're looking at an expected loss of about $100 or so, which could-- in theory, anyway-- be written off as the price you're willing to pay for the entertainment of keeping track of the player's progress, checking Ebay for recent closing prices on the card, and so on.
It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking 'Wow, this Ebayer must really be a high roller if he's paying $5000 for this Lebron RC, since if Lebron blows out his knee or gets lost in a maze of cocaine and hookers that card will be worth zero'. Well yeah, that's true enough. But remember, the guy buying the card has NO plans of being an end user. He's not planning on holding onto the card. He's going to flip it, so his gain (or loss) will only be a fraction of that $5000. That's why these prices get so high. It's not because people actually have that kind of money to burn (although some do, obviously)-- it's because when the card goes from $5000 to $0 about 40 different guys will have owned it during the descent, and all will share a little bit in the loss.
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
I don't think anybody is. It's like the 'Greater Fool' approach to the stock market. Nobody is holding the card/stock because they think it has a firm foundation-- they're buying it because they're reasonably confident tha they'll find a 'greater fool' down the road who will pay more for it than they did. I bet if you asked a random 100 guys who have bought a $500+ modern RC in the past month if they planned to hold the card until the player retired less than 3% of them would say 'yes'. For most of these guys they're buying it with the hopes that the player in question has a hot pre-season, or gets off to a scorching start in April, or even tears up AA pitching for the first couple months this year-- and then they're going to dump it. >>
Indeed, first rule of prospecting is to sell when hot... Sometimes it backfires and players get hotter but sometimes it works out....
<< <i>Out of curiosity, what do these kids buy? Hot RC's? Jeter inserts? >>
UD Exquisite and other $100+ per pack new issues, I believe. >>
Kids buy what they like, something that looks good is limited and has a nice design overall. The aflacs are really amazing cards in person, also the on auto card is a plus.
As far as wax, I really don't bust much, although I buy cases to flip, only cases i bust on a normal basis are Bowman Chrome because early on its so cheap, im still finding cases for 600 which is very very cheap IMO....
BTW im a collector of inserts/on card autos, like them much more, here is a group of cards i am sending to psa or bgs... Maybe RCR at the tristar show if I feel like flying out on the red eye.
<< Out of curiosity, what do these kids buy? Hot RC's? Jeter inserts?
In regards to this question...I took notice at yeastrdays show. I tried to watch what was sold at my booth as well as the guys around me. I had all PSA singles and raw singles..the booth to my left had high end new stuff and supplies..the booth in front of me had wax.
My table busy with the typical...vintage collector....guy's who were 30-65...looking for nice raw..or PSA cards to fill sets. I did OK....it was my slowest show in 1.5 years (partly due to the Warwick, RI show the day before).
Now this left me alot of time to watch others....
The table to the left had incredible Exquisite singles....Bowman originals...Sterling...SPX......tons and tons of high end rookies and autos...auto'd rookies....and multiple auto'd cards of Jordan...Bird...and being near Boston...loads of New England area cards and gu'd...and loads of Pujols high end inserts.
This guy was flipping $200-$400 cards ALL day long. He would take in a few thousand....and THEN go over to the wax table and buy wax....like a 2005 Exquisite FB case for $1800...and a case of "In the Game Ultimate Memorablilia" for $1400. Which he took back to his table...ripped and put out for singles. He was busy..buying/trading/flipping stuff all day long. I know he spent $2K on a box of singles from a customer....and at the end of the day said..."it was a pretty good show...but I've done better!"
I asked his buddy how old he is...he told me 24!!!!
As for the wax guys in front of me....both in the mid-30's....just with those 2 sales....seemed high....BUT...they constantly sold packs of Bowman Originals at $50 per pack (2 autos per pack)....Extreme $75 per pack..$250 a box (not sure sport..couldn't see the box that well...and it didn't last long)...
They had also sold several other higher end boxes and cases...lots of SP Authentic and SPx....
The bulk of their sales I would say were to either store owners (guys in their 40's)..but mainly again to young guys in their early to mid-20's....
These guys were buying packs and ripping. They actually bought boxes of SP Authentic and a couple Chrome products...and ripped them. They pulled the good singles and inserts...and LEFT the rest of the "junk" at the table.
Then things would go full circle....after they ripped the wax..they came back to the table to my left....bartered with singles...bought supplies to put their new cards in. A couple of good hits yielded some nice cards..
But it was like a circus.
It really made me rethink MY set up!!
Speaking soley from my vantage point...these "kids" who are supposedly only an insignificant part of the market....WERE 80% of the show!!
These guys are dropping $50- $75 per pack....and I have a table of 70's PSA 9's and 10's..(3 showcases full..at discounted prices...and sold 5 cards). Three guys asked about a 1974 Indians Team card PSA 10 that was in my case for $75.....I told them all they could have it for $50. It came home with me....
It's hard to judge....I know I did a mere fraction of what these guys did...and I had more product there than 90% of the room.
I'm glad that you have the means to buy what you want. That's what collecting is all about. Buying what makes you happy. If you can make some extra coin on top of that, all the better.
<< <i>When was the last time you went to a show or set up at one?
I'll tell you from hard experience..atleast in my area, your obsevation is totally bazz akward!!
The youth in this area RULE the market... >>
Maybe you're right. Here in the bay area of CA, there are not a lot of early 20 year olds dropping hard cash at shows. Then again, i havent been to show in awhile.
<< <i>Yes agreed...some older collectors will drop big $$$ on sets and singles that they need. But time and again..it's the young guys that drop the $$. >>
Let's keep somrthing in mind:
-It's been a well known fact that card shows have been in the decline for quite some time now. It's been stated at the national, on this board and even in the media. So, how representative is the sample of collectors you meet at a card show? I would have to guess not representative at all. So, don't base all of your information solely on what you see at shows. Use that information in addition to what you see on mastro, lelands, sothebys, mile high auctions....it's big to drop 1 grand on some modern cards at a card show, i'll grant you that...but, it's even bigger to spend 48 grand on a PSA 10 of some HOFer. And most of the top vintage collectors at the moment are well over their 20's.
<< <i>As far as them being fairly insignificant....maybe through a vintage collectors eyes. But I see both sides of the coin at every show...and trust me..(again in New England)....they far outweigh the vintage collectors and by far spend more!! >>
As i stated above, that could be true. I havent been to a show in awhile because i, as it is with the trend these days, make my purchases off online auctions. And most purchases at online auctions are vintage (sans Ebay). And i guarantee you that the money spent solely on mastro, leland, mile high, memory lane and sotheby auctions outweighs all those shows combined. So, you're likely right that modern collectors spend more at shows. But, take into account the decline in shows and the increase of online auctions, which are primarily vintage and far outweigh the transactions made at any show, and i cant agree with your statement that modern collector purchases far outweight vintage collectors purchases on the whole.
<< <i>Hence the 101 threads about..."this show and that show had no vintage...only shiney new cards and modern crap"
It's there because it sells!! >>
You're right. I havent nothing against modern cards and i hope, eliminating the saturation weve seen in this market for over 2 decades now, it thrives.
<< <i>When was the last time you went to a show or set up at one?
I'll tell you from hard experience..atleast in my area, your obsevation is totally bazz akward!!
The youth in this area RULE the market... >>
Maybe you're right. Here in the bay area of CA, there are not a lot of early 20 year olds dropping hard cash at shows. Then again, i havent been to show in awhile.
<< <i>Yes agreed...some older collectors will drop big $$$ on sets and singles that they need. But time and again..it's the young guys that drop the $$. >>
Let's keep somrthing in mind:
-It's been a well known fact that card shows have been in the decline for quite some time now. It's been stated at the national, on this board and even in the media. So, how representative is the sample of collectors you meet at a card show? I would have to guess not representative at all. So, don't base all of your information solely on what you see at shows. Use that information in addition to what you see on mastro, lelands, sothebys, mile high auctions....it's big to drop 1 grand on some modern cards at a card show, i'll grant you that...but, it's even bigger to spend 48 grand on a PSA 10 of some HOFer. And most of the top vintage collectors at the moment are well over their 20's.
<< <i>As far as them being fairly insignificant....maybe through a vintage collectors eyes. But I see both sides of the coin at every show...and trust me..(again in New England)....they far outweigh the vintage collectors and by far spend more!! >>
As i stated above, that could be true. I havent been to a show in awhile because i, as it is with the trend these days, make my purchases off online auctions. And most purchases at online auctions are vintage (sans Ebay). And i guarantee you that the money spent solely on mastro, leland, mile high, memory lane and sotheby auctions outweighs all those shows combined. So, you're likely right that modern collectors spend more at shows. But, take into account the decline in shows and the increase of online auctions, which are primarily vintage and far outweigh the transactions made at any show, and i cant agree with your statement that modern collector purchases far outweight vintage collectors purchases on the whole.
<< <i>Hence the 101 threads about..."this show and that show had no vintage...only shiney new cards and modern crap"
It's there because it sells!! >>
You're right. I havent nothing against modern cards and i hope, eliminating the saturation weve seen in this market for over 2 decades now, it thrives. >>
48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
<< <i>48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
Tulip bulbs, anyone?
Nick >>
This was no joke, the guy with wade 3/3 also has lebron 23/23 and carmelo 15/15 goes by the id Gem_cards
His partner and him opened 12 cases the day I was hanging out at there booth of exquisite 05/06 bkb and were throwing MJ autos around like they were junk. I was amazed...
They pulled a MJ auto which in turn was the "case hit", and they were extremely disappointed.
One day I hope to be able to throw around that kinda of money and not care , however I hope I never devalue MJ autos ever ... I remember getting some nice deals because the guys didn't care if it wasn't a gold rc, 1/1 or a auto rc patch /99... They didn't want /225's they didn't care if it was a card /10 they wanted the big ticket items.
<<<< 48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
Tulip bulbs, anyone?
Nick >>
This was no joke, the guy with wade 3/3 also has lebron 23/23 and carmelo 15/15 goes by the id Gem_cards
His partner and him opened 12 cases the day I was hanging out at there booth of exquisite 05/06 bkb and were throwing MJ autos around like they were junk. I was amazed...
They pulled a MJ auto which in turn was the "case hit", and they were extremely disappointed.
One day I hope to be able to throw around that kinda of money and not care , however I hope I never devalue MJ autos ever ... I remember getting some nice deals because the guys didn't care if it wasn't a gold rc, 1/1 or a auto rc patch /99... They didn't want /225's they didn't care if it was a card /10 they wanted the big ticket items. >>
Tulip bulbs doesn't mean a joke. The Dutch tulip bulb craze nearly destroyed the whole economy of the country in the 1630s. $76,000 for a bulb!
The modern high-end market looks like the dot-coom boom of 1997-99. When the new money stops flowing in, uh oh.
<<<< The modern high-end market looks like the dot-coom boom of 1997-99. When the new money stops flowing in, uh oh.
Yep, kinda has that feel of the pyramid schemes in the 80's. >>
Remember all Vintage was once modern! >>
Yup, but until the last couple decades new cards weren't considered terribly valuable, so people didn't have much more than allowance money tied up in them.
When there's not much of a market, there's no boom or bust.
<< <i>The modern high-end market looks like the dot-coom boom of 1997-99. When the new money stops flowing in, uh oh.
Yep, kinda has that feel of the pyramid schemes in the 80's. >>
HOWEVER, if you want to spend $500 on a modern card, more power to you.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I think this is a great sign. Most of us here were around for the frenzy of 1986-1990, and many of us primarily collected modern at that time. Many left the hobby after the bust, but we're back. The kids busting Exquisite today will be the ones buying your Paytons and Schmidts at your estate sale.
<< <i>Someone Offered me 775 for it overnight shipping. Not sure if I want to take it... Might have too, would be highest recorded sale. >>
If your sure your not being scammed, do it. Let's say this guy gets to the bigs and turns into a 0.320 hitter with 20-30 HRs per year. That cards value will plummet.
You bought the card to make money, you should take it.
<< <i>Someone Offered me 775 for it overnight shipping. Not sure if I want to take it... Might have too, would be highest recorded sale. >>
If your sure your not being scammed, do it. Let's say this guy gets to the bigs and turns into a 0.320 hitter with 20-30 HRs per year. That cards value will plummet.
You bought the card to make money, you should take it. >>
Oh my, how many Rookies did I sell of his for $8 a pop. I cracked hundreds of boxes of Donruss and Fleer. The height of the Market, hype, overproduction. The good ol' days!
Oh my, how many Rookies did I sell of his for $8 a pop. I cracked hundreds of boxes of Donruss and Fleer. The height of the Market, hype, overproduction. The good ol' days! >>
Yes thankfully this card is limited to 90 and its his only auto from 2004...
<< <i> you do not understand prospecting sir... >>
I absolutely don't understand it. Does this card have $3000 potential? I thought that was reserved for Pujols/Lebron type players.
Are you saying that simply being an MLB all-star will drive this cards value up to $2000?
I'm actually interested in your reasoning, but either way please reduce your sig line picture even if it is a legal size. No I won't complain, but it is common courtesy.
<< <i> you do not understand prospecting sir... >>
I absolutely don't understand it. Does this card have $3000 potential? I thought that was reserved for Pujols/Lebron type players.
Are you saying that simply being an MLB all-star will drive this cards value up to $2000?
I'm actually interested in your reasoning, but either way please reduce your sig line picture even if it is a legal size. No I won't complain, but it is common courtesy. >>
The card has unlimited potential considering this is his real rc auto and only auto from 2004 and /90... Also as soon as a prospect gets called up before he steps up goes for nuts. If he hit 300 and 20-30 hrs in his first two years the card would be insane.
Lebron and Pujols rcs similar in terms of rarity and set popularity go a lot more than 2k... Exquisites go like 10k for lebron right now.
<< <i> you do not understand prospecting sir... >>
I absolutely don't understand it. Does this card have $3000 potential? I thought that was reserved for Pujols/Lebron type players.
Are you saying that simply being an MLB all-star will drive this cards value up to $2000?
I'm actually interested in your reasoning, but either way please reduce your sig line picture even if it is a legal size. No I won't complain, but it is common courtesy. >>
The card has unlimited potential considering this is his real rc auto and only auto from 2004 and /90... Also as soon as a prospect gets called up before he steps up goes for nuts. If he hit 300 and 20-30 hrs in his first two years the card would be insane.
Lebron and Pujols rcs similar in terms of rarity and set popularity go a lot more than 2k... Exquisites go like 10k for lebron right now. >>
: shakes head :
Personally, I don't understand your rational but good luck in whatever you decide to do
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought. >>
If your point is that modern cards go for a lot more than i think...then, assuming your totals are correct, you've made your point. But, i stand by my assessment....vintage cards on the whole bring in more. Here's a link. And remember, this is only one of many auctions that occur througout the year
as far as someone offering 250k for the wade card....to put that in perspective, a PSA 1 honus wagner card sold for $236,706 in 2005. The mona lisa of baseball cards is worth as much as a 3/3 dwayne wayne exquisite card. to each his own.
and modern cards vs vintage cards as an investment? i dont think of vintage cards as an investment, but high grade, primarily pre war (though post war, highly sought and/or rare cards also fit in this category) cards...and any grade pre war scarce issues bring in big money. Take the wagner example above. The last PSA 2 wagner sold was in 2000 for $74,918. Now, i may be in the wrong and you can tell me otherwise, but i dont think that dwayne ward card will triple in price over the span of 5 years.
now, i see modern cards as a short term investment. day trading. you can make a lot of moeny out of it, but the risk is high. I see vintage cards more as a better than average mutual fund. lower risk and peace of mind, but more time to wait for profit.
anyway, dont take my post as an offense to who you are as a person. this is my position and im just expressing it without trying to insult your intelligence, manhood or pride.
I also dont think this high dollar modern stuff is what long term collectors/investors are buying. It's all a continued money flip until the last guy gets burned....as someone said, somewhat like a pyramid scheme.
Dont get me wrong, Im not saying it isnt nice stuff cuz I like it too...but there is no way I would ever spend 1K on a modern card for my collection hoping he makes it to the pros. Now if I knew I had it sold for 1200, of course I would buy and flip it.
yankee- A lot of prospects prices rise before he gets to the majors usually during spring trainning or when the rumors flow of a possible call up... I usually sell way before they ever get called up
<< <i>yankee- A lot of prospects prices rise before he gets to the majors usually during spring trainning or when the rumors flow of a possible call up... I usually sell way before they ever get called up >>
So you know, you are saying this to a 37 year old dude who has collected since he was 8 years old and at one time owned a card shop. LOL
<< <i>yankee- A lot of prospects prices rise before he gets to the majors usually during spring trainning or when the rumors flow of a possible call up... I usually sell way before they ever get called up >>
So you know, you are saying this to a 37 year old dude who has collected since he was 8 years old and at one time owned a card shop. LOL >>
you really are on the wrong board. the majority of your posts have been on the sports talk forum where you tell about your $12 parlays, try to hype up some rookies and generally make a lot of wrong predictions about the NFL. (still waiting for Carolina to get hot in 2006 in the NFL like you predicted would happen)
this board is about collecting. it is about people who love the hobby and have favorite teams, players or sets. they register their sets, they open wax pack in groups and their joys and sorrows. they trade cards and rarely if ever flip cards to try to make a quick buck. people here love discussing their collections. there are disagreements about players and sets but it comes from RESPECT for the hobby. there are sets and players that i have no interest in, but i am happy for the collector when they get an addition to their set and report here. i don't recall someone saying i got a good deal on a 1961 koufax and i am going to put it back up on ebay tonight.
you, young man have no RESPECT for the hobby. you are a pimp buying and selling with no love of card collecting. even the large dealers on ebay have love for the hobby. sure many of them make a good living, but they do it because they enjoy it. if you were buying these cards to put them in a set or registry many of us would be interested. but bragging how smart you think you are because you can buy a card one day of some unknown schmo for an ungodly amount and try to find a bigger sucker than you a couple days later is pretty boring.
when you said you want to become a lawyer/sports agent i know some of us thought another Drew Rosenhaus wannabee. i guess if you flunk out of college you will try your luck on the poker tour. you have a lot of growing up to do.
Comments
<< <i>For one, the portion of collectors who are of the ages 18 through 25 is fairly insignificant. Go to a card show...for every 19 year old that comes in with a wad full of cash, there are about 10 30 year olds doing the same....and about 20 40+ year olds throwing down even more money.
When was the last time you went to a show or set up at one?
I'll tell you from hard experience..atleast in my area, your obsevation is totally bazz akward!!
The youth in this area RULE the market...
Yes agreed...some older collectors will drop big $$$ on sets and singles that they need. But time and again..it's the young guys that drop the $$.
I have 2 guys...each no more than 25...each drops $1K-$2K per show between myself and 2-3 other dealers. And I wouldn't even consider them the BIG buyers at the show.
As far as them being fairly insignificant....maybe through a vintage collectors eyes. But I see both sides of the coin at every show...and trust me..(again in New England)....they far outweigh the vintage collectors and by far spend more!!
Hence the 101 threads about..."this show and that show had no vintage...only shiney new cards and modern crap"
It's there because it sells!! >>
No no no. It's not 'this show and that show had no vintage', it's 'this show and that show had no MINT vintage that I could buy, grade and flip for a 300% profit'. That well is, sadly, drying up.
Out of curiosity, what do these kids buy? Hot RC's? Jeter inserts?
<< <i>Out of curiosity, what do these kids buy? Hot RC's? Jeter inserts? >>
UD Exquisite and other $100+ per pack new issues, I believe.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
A lot of players had "good" careers who have cheap or common rookie cards... John Kruk, Kent Hrbek, Andres Gallaraga, Ruben Sierra, Bobby Bonilla, among dozens of other names that could be plunked down. The difference with today's market is the player has one or two rookie cards and all those goofy color low print refractor variations. Being from Minnesota I can tell you Hrbek was and remains very popular but there are so many of his rookie cards floating around that any fan can get one for less than a buck. Even a Topps Pucket rookie can be found for a couple bucks on various venues. The rookies in the Bowman Chrome sets will have far fewer copies than were produced in any 1980's Topps set. As such, a player who ends up having a "good" career will see a premium in rookie card prices relative to solid players from the mass produced 80's era. Thow in some low print run colored refractors and some autos and you have a recipe for astronomical price apreciation for the next player who puts up Griffey Jr type numbers. If Ken Griffey Jr had an autographed Bowman Chrome Gold refractor #/50 as a rookie card I would not be shocked if the thing sold for $20k or more. The Pujols Chrome auto already sells for several thousand dollars in graded mint 9 and that one is #/500. Imagine the price if only 50 copies existed. That is the mentality of card prospectors out there. If you land the next superstar you essentially bought Miscrosoft at IPO. The problem I see is a player like Griffey or Pujols doesn't come around very often. Like the stock market there are more losers than winners along with plenty of stocks that are just dead money. There sure seem to be a heck of a lot more baseball card prospectors out there which has seriously driven up prices of new product to the point where I think the risk outweighs the reward. The people who got in earlier in the decade are laughing all the way to the bank. I get the feeling the people jumping on the bandwagon now are like the folks who jumped on the tech stock bandwagon in the late 90's. Sometime down the road I predict a shakeout which will bring prices of lesser prospects back into line. Those folks who pick out the right prospect will still make plenty of money.
Only if there is demand for the player's cards. How much premium is there on the rookie cards of players who had solid careers from the 1940s and 1950s? If they weren't Yankees or Dodgers, unless they were near-HOF status (Colavito, Pinson, and a couple others), few people value them more highly than commons.
Hrbek has regional demand (it helps a lot to play your entire career with one team). Kruk became a TV figure after his retirement. Basically no one is looking for Galarraga, Sierra, or Bonilla cards - and Galarraga is not far from HOF caliber.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Basically no one is looking for Galarraga, Sierra, or Bonilla cards - and Galarraga is not far from HOF caliber.
Nick >>
Galarraga has a pretty serious group of collectors, I've seen some very strong prices on some of his late 90's inserts and parallels #/100 or less. #/100 might sound like a big number for a modern print run these days but was still tough out of products like 1999 Ultra and Upper Deck. Of course the RCs aren't bringing in strong prices, there's a bazillion 1986 Donruss Rookies and 1986 Topps Traded sets out there. I can't speak for Sierra or Bonilla, but don't knock the marginal HOFer group or rookie classes from 1986-88, many of those players still have a good following and certain inserts and sets from the mid-90's to 2001 or so still command nice prices, especially when they collide with set builders.
And as stated above, the economics are certainly different but the game is still the same. I started doing flea markets back in 1987 with a little card table and could pull in $100-200 in a morning with, what, 1987 Topps and Donruss base cards at the time. By 1991/92 I could pull in $200-600 with a larger spread of tables but similar caliber items, half-price showcases, dollar piles, dime and quarter boxes and binders of all four sports. With the current economics and prices of new unopened product, I see no big deal in someone pulling in 4-figures at a show or flea market if they know what they are doing.
This one is driven by parallel and insert set collectors. Some of the late '90s parallel sets #/100 have 5 to 7 serious set builders, and considering that a particular player's card from a set may come up once on eBay in several years (in fact, I can think of at least 20 players from one 220-card parallel set #/100 issued in 1999 that I have never seen on eBay), you can end up with a fierce bidding war for it. The more mass-market the product was, the tougher the scarce #ed card is to actually find, because so many of them are owned by casual collectors (or people who stopped collecting and packed their cards away) and never come up for sale.
In Galarraga's case, in the late '90s he was still a big enough star that many people thought he would go to the HOF and he had a serious group of player collectors. I think a significant number of his tough cards are held by people who paid a lot in the '90s to have a top Galarraga collection and aren't about to get rid of it for pennies on the dollar - but they're not buying more.
I can think of one star who fizzled out whose player collectors are obsessive enough that his cards bring crazy prices - Penny Hardaway. His #/100 cards often bring more than those of Michael Jordan and top rookies from the same set.
I certainly don't disagree that there is a lot of money to be made in dealing in new cards; I just can't figure out who is buying these to hold for the long-term (until the guy gets called up to the majors does not count as long-term) - and why they think it's a good move.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
I don't think anybody is. It's like the 'Greater Fool' approach to the stock market. Nobody is holding the card/stock because they think it has a firm foundation-- they're buying it because they're reasonably confident tha they'll find a 'greater fool' down the road who will pay more for it than they did. I bet if you asked a random 100 guys who have bought a $500+ modern RC in the past month if they planned to hold the card until the player retired less than 3% of them would say 'yes'. For most of these guys they're buying it with the hopes that the player in question has a hot pre-season, or gets off to a scorching start in April, or even tears up AA pitching for the first couple months this year-- and then they're going to dump it.
<< <i>
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
I don't think anybody is. It's like the 'Greater Fool' approach to the stock market. Nobody is holding the card/stock because they think it has a firm foundation-- they're buying it because they're reasonably confident tha they'll find a 'greater fool' down the road who will pay more for it than they did. I bet if you asked a random 100 guys who have bought a $500+ modern RC in the past month if they planned to hold the card until the player retired less than 3% of them would say 'yes'. For most of these guys they're buying it with the hopes that the player in question has a hot pre-season, or gets off to a scorching start in April, or even tears up AA pitching for the first couple months this year-- and then they're going to dump it. >>
That's what makes the modern RC market so strange. You're dealing with 'collectibles' (at least in theory), but the collectible in question doesn't have any obvious end user. Who actually wants the unpunched Alex Gordon card just because they're a huge fan of Alex Gordon? Nobody. The entire market is driven by the belief that someone else, at some point down the road, will pay you big money for the card in question. It's like musical chairs, and eventually someone gets left out (i.e., the guy who's stuck holding the card when the player gets demoted, or goes into rehab, or blows out his elbow, etc.). But usually the guy who gets screwed isn't you, so it seems OK. Paying $2000 for a Gold Refractor of some hot new player just seems totally off the chain until you recognize that the guy who bought it is planning on selling it if it's value goes above $2300 or dips below $1700. Then it just looks like a casual gamble. And if the odds are 30% that it will go up, and 70% that it has already hit it's ceiling and will go down, then you're looking at an expected loss of about $100 or so, which could-- in theory, anyway-- be written off as the price you're willing to pay for the entertainment of keeping track of the player's progress, checking Ebay for recent closing prices on the card, and so on.
It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking 'Wow, this Ebayer must really be a high roller if he's paying $5000 for this Lebron RC, since if Lebron blows out his knee or gets lost in a maze of cocaine and hookers that card will be worth zero'. Well yeah, that's true enough. But remember, the guy buying the card has NO plans of being an end user. He's not planning on holding onto the card. He's going to flip it, so his gain (or loss) will only be a fraction of that $5000. That's why these prices get so high. It's not because people actually have that kind of money to burn (although some do, obviously)-- it's because when the card goes from $5000 to $0 about 40 different guys will have owned it during the descent, and all will share a little bit in the loss.
<< <i>
<< <i>The sad thing about the Gregg Jefferies comparison is that Jefferies ended up with a decent major league career, and his rookie card is a common. What will a player have to end up as for his rooie card to be worth $475 in 20 years?
Figure no more than 5 of these players per year will end up as major stars. The rest will fade back into common status.
Who is buying these cards to hold?
Nick >>
I don't think anybody is. It's like the 'Greater Fool' approach to the stock market. Nobody is holding the card/stock because they think it has a firm foundation-- they're buying it because they're reasonably confident tha they'll find a 'greater fool' down the road who will pay more for it than they did. I bet if you asked a random 100 guys who have bought a $500+ modern RC in the past month if they planned to hold the card until the player retired less than 3% of them would say 'yes'. For most of these guys they're buying it with the hopes that the player in question has a hot pre-season, or gets off to a scorching start in April, or even tears up AA pitching for the first couple months this year-- and then they're going to dump it. >>
Indeed, first rule of prospecting is to sell when hot... Sometimes it backfires and players get hotter but sometimes it works out....
<< <i>
<< <i>Out of curiosity, what do these kids buy? Hot RC's? Jeter inserts? >>
UD Exquisite and other $100+ per pack new issues, I believe. >>
Kids buy what they like, something that looks good is limited and has a nice design overall. The aflacs are really amazing cards in person, also the on auto card is a plus.
As far as wax, I really don't bust much, although I buy cases to flip, only cases i bust on a normal basis are Bowman Chrome because early on its so cheap, im still finding cases for 600 which is very very cheap IMO....
BTW im a collector of inserts/on card autos, like them much more, here is a group of cards i am sending to psa or bgs... Maybe RCR at the tristar show if I feel like flying out on the red eye.
<< <i>That "Evan Longoria" isn't he a deperate house husband? >>
Yuck be more original
In regards to this question...I took notice at yeastrdays show. I tried to watch what was sold at my booth as well as the guys around me. I had all PSA singles and raw singles..the booth to my left had high end new stuff and supplies..the booth in front of me had wax.
My table busy with the typical...vintage collector....guy's who were 30-65...looking for nice raw..or PSA cards to fill sets. I did OK....it was my slowest show in 1.5 years (partly due to the Warwick, RI show the day before).
Now this left me alot of time to watch others....
The table to the left had incredible Exquisite singles....Bowman originals...Sterling...SPX......tons and tons of high end rookies and autos...auto'd rookies....and multiple auto'd cards of Jordan...Bird...and being near Boston...loads of New England area cards and gu'd...and loads of Pujols high end inserts.
This guy was flipping $200-$400 cards ALL day long. He would take in a few thousand....and THEN go over to the wax table and buy wax....like a 2005 Exquisite FB case for $1800...and a case of "In the Game Ultimate Memorablilia" for $1400. Which he took back to his table...ripped and put out for singles. He was busy..buying/trading/flipping stuff all day long.
I know he spent $2K on a box of singles from a customer....and at the end of the day said..."it was a pretty good show...but I've done better!"
I asked his buddy how old he is...he told me 24!!!!
As for the wax guys in front of me....both in the mid-30's....just with those 2 sales....seemed high....BUT...they constantly sold packs of Bowman Originals at $50 per pack (2 autos per pack)....Extreme $75 per pack..$250 a box (not sure sport..couldn't see the box that well...and it didn't last long)...
They had also sold several other higher end boxes and cases...lots of SP Authentic and SPx....
The bulk of their sales I would say were to either store owners (guys in their 40's)..but mainly again to young guys in their early to mid-20's....
These guys were buying packs and ripping. They actually bought boxes of SP Authentic and a couple Chrome products...and ripped them. They pulled the good singles and inserts...and LEFT the rest of the "junk" at the table.
Then things would go full circle....after they ripped the wax..they came back to the table to my left....bartered with singles...bought supplies to put their new cards in. A couple of good hits yielded some nice cards..
But it was like a circus.
It really made me rethink MY set up!!
Speaking soley from my vantage point...these "kids" who are supposedly only an insignificant part of the market....WERE 80% of the show!!
These guys are dropping $50- $75 per pack....and I have a table of 70's PSA 9's and 10's..(3 showcases full..at discounted prices...and sold 5 cards). Three guys asked about a 1974 Indians Team card PSA 10 that was in my case for $75.....I told them all they could have it for $50. It came home with me....
It's hard to judge....I know I did a mere fraction of what these guys did...and I had more product there than 90% of the room.
RanyMass- When your are married, than it's over
I'm glad that you have the means to buy what you want. That's what collecting is all about. Buying what makes you happy. If you can make some extra coin on top of that, all the better.
<< <i>When was the last time you went to a show or set up at one?
I'll tell you from hard experience..atleast in my area, your obsevation is totally bazz akward!!
The youth in this area RULE the market... >>
Maybe you're right. Here in the bay area of CA, there are not a lot of early 20 year olds dropping hard cash at shows. Then again, i havent been to show in awhile.
<< <i>Yes agreed...some older collectors will drop big $$$ on sets and singles that they need. But time and again..it's the young guys that drop the $$. >>
Let's keep somrthing in mind:
-It's been a well known fact that card shows have been in the decline for quite some time now. It's been stated at the national, on this board and even in the media. So, how representative is the sample of collectors you meet at a card show? I would have to guess not representative at all. So, don't base all of your information solely on what you see at shows. Use that information in addition to what you see on mastro, lelands, sothebys, mile high auctions....it's big to drop 1 grand on some modern cards at a card show, i'll grant you that...but, it's even bigger to spend 48 grand on a PSA 10 of some HOFer. And most of the top vintage collectors at the moment are well over their 20's.
<< <i>As far as them being fairly insignificant....maybe through a vintage collectors eyes. But I see both sides of the coin at every show...and trust me..(again in New England)....they far outweigh the vintage collectors and by far spend more!! >>
As i stated above, that could be true. I havent been to a show in awhile because i, as it is with the trend these days, make my purchases off online auctions. And most purchases at online auctions are vintage (sans Ebay). And i guarantee you that the money spent solely on mastro, leland, mile high, memory lane and sotheby auctions outweighs all those shows combined. So, you're likely right that modern collectors spend more at shows. But, take into account the decline in shows and the increase of online auctions, which are primarily vintage and far outweigh the transactions made at any show, and i cant agree with your statement that modern collector purchases far outweight vintage collectors purchases on the whole.
<< <i>Hence the 101 threads about..."this show and that show had no vintage...only shiney new cards and modern crap"
It's there because it sells!! >>
You're right. I havent nothing against modern cards and i hope, eliminating the saturation weve seen in this market for over 2 decades now, it thrives.
<< <i>
<< <i>When was the last time you went to a show or set up at one?
I'll tell you from hard experience..atleast in my area, your obsevation is totally bazz akward!!
The youth in this area RULE the market... >>
Maybe you're right. Here in the bay area of CA, there are not a lot of early 20 year olds dropping hard cash at shows. Then again, i havent been to show in awhile.
<< <i>Yes agreed...some older collectors will drop big $$$ on sets and singles that they need. But time and again..it's the young guys that drop the $$. >>
Let's keep somrthing in mind:
-It's been a well known fact that card shows have been in the decline for quite some time now. It's been stated at the national, on this board and even in the media. So, how representative is the sample of collectors you meet at a card show? I would have to guess not representative at all. So, don't base all of your information solely on what you see at shows. Use that information in addition to what you see on mastro, lelands, sothebys, mile high auctions....it's big to drop 1 grand on some modern cards at a card show, i'll grant you that...but, it's even bigger to spend 48 grand on a PSA 10 of some HOFer. And most of the top vintage collectors at the moment are well over their 20's.
<< <i>As far as them being fairly insignificant....maybe through a vintage collectors eyes. But I see both sides of the coin at every show...and trust me..(again in New England)....they far outweigh the vintage collectors and by far spend more!! >>
As i stated above, that could be true. I havent been to a show in awhile because i, as it is with the trend these days, make my purchases off online auctions. And most purchases at online auctions are vintage (sans Ebay). And i guarantee you that the money spent solely on mastro, leland, mile high, memory lane and sotheby auctions outweighs all those shows combined. So, you're likely right that modern collectors spend more at shows. But, take into account the decline in shows and the increase of online auctions, which are primarily vintage and far outweigh the transactions made at any show, and i cant agree with your statement that modern collector purchases far outweight vintage collectors purchases on the whole.
<< <i>Hence the 101 threads about..."this show and that show had no vintage...only shiney new cards and modern crap"
It's there because it sells!! >>
You're right. I havent nothing against modern cards and i hope, eliminating the saturation weve seen in this market for over 2 decades now, it thrives. >>
48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
Tulip bulbs, anyone?
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
Tulip bulbs, anyone?
Nick >>
This was no joke, the guy with wade 3/3 also has lebron 23/23 and carmelo 15/15 goes by the id Gem_cards
His partner and him opened 12 cases the day I was hanging out at there booth of exquisite 05/06 bkb and were throwing MJ autos around like they were junk. I was amazed...
They pulled a MJ auto which in turn was the "case hit", and they were extremely disappointed.
One day I hope to be able to throw around that kinda of money and not care
<< <i>I don't get the modern game...
IMO, I would rather have had this for $456
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought.
Tulip bulbs, anyone?
Nick >>
This was no joke, the guy with wade 3/3 also has lebron 23/23 and carmelo 15/15 goes by the id Gem_cards
His partner and him opened 12 cases the day I was hanging out at there booth of exquisite 05/06 bkb and were throwing MJ autos around like they were junk. I was amazed...
They pulled a MJ auto which in turn was the "case hit", and they were extremely disappointed.
One day I hope to be able to throw around that kinda of money and not care
Tulip bulbs doesn't mean a joke. The Dutch tulip bulb craze nearly destroyed the whole economy of the country in the 1630s.
$76,000 for a bulb!
The modern high-end market looks like the dot-coom boom of 1997-99. When the new money stops flowing in, uh oh.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Yep, kinda has that feel of the pyramid schemes in the 80's.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>The modern high-end market looks like the dot-coom boom of 1997-99. When the new money stops flowing in, uh oh.
Yep, kinda has that feel of the pyramid schemes in the 80's. >>
Remember all Vintage was once modern!
Yep, kinda has that feel of the pyramid schemes in the 80's. >>
Remember all Vintage was once modern! >>
Yup, but until the last couple decades new cards weren't considered terribly valuable, so people didn't have much more than allowance money tied up in them.
When there's not much of a market, there's no boom or bust.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>The modern high-end market looks like the dot-coom boom of 1997-99. When the new money stops flowing in, uh oh.
Yep, kinda has that feel of the pyramid schemes in the 80's. >>
HOWEVER, if you want to spend $500 on a modern card, more power to you.
Edit - There we go
<< <i>At age 19 you have $500 to burn?
puckhd27.....kills you doesn't it!!
Actually No. We are talking burning money, not having money. Big Difference. College, law school, hope your gamble pays off.
Joe
<< <i>Someone Offered me 775 for it overnight shipping. Not sure if I want to take it... Might have too, would be highest recorded sale. >>
If your sure your not being scammed, do it. Let's say this guy gets to the bigs and turns into a 0.320 hitter with 20-30 HRs per year. That cards value will plummet.
You bought the card to make money, you should take it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone Offered me 775 for it overnight shipping. Not sure if I want to take it... Might have too, would be highest recorded sale. >>
If your sure your not being scammed, do it. Let's say this guy gets to the bigs and turns into a 0.320 hitter with 20-30 HRs per year. That cards value will plummet.
You bought the card to make money, you should take it. >>
you do not understand prospecting sir...
Gregg Jefferies.
Oh my, how many Rookies did I sell of his for $8 a pop. I cracked hundreds of boxes of Donruss and Fleer. The height of the Market, hype, overproduction. The good ol' days!
<< <i>LOL
Gregg Jefferies.
Oh my, how many Rookies did I sell of his for $8 a pop. I cracked hundreds of boxes of Donruss and Fleer. The height of the Market, hype, overproduction. The good ol' days! >>
Yes thankfully this card is limited to 90 and its his only auto from 2004...
<< <i>
you do not understand prospecting sir... >>
I absolutely don't understand it. Does this card have $3000 potential? I thought that was reserved for Pujols/Lebron type players.
Are you saying that simply being an MLB all-star will drive this cards value up to $2000?
I'm actually interested in your reasoning, but either way please reduce your sig line picture even if it is a legal size. No I won't complain, but it is common courtesy.
Take the sale. Instead of trying to hit grand slams, go for some doubles off the wall
No shame in taking profits. hard lessons learned from stock/options trading.
<< <i>
<< <i>
you do not understand prospecting sir... >>
I absolutely don't understand it. Does this card have $3000 potential? I thought that was reserved for Pujols/Lebron type players.
Are you saying that simply being an MLB all-star will drive this cards value up to $2000?
I'm actually interested in your reasoning, but either way please reduce your sig line picture even if it is a legal size. No I won't complain, but it is common courtesy. >>
The card has unlimited potential considering this is his real rc auto and only auto from 2004 and /90... Also as soon as a prospect gets called up before he steps up goes for nuts. If he hit 300 and 20-30 hrs in his first two years the card would be insane.
Lebron and Pujols rcs similar in terms of rarity and set popularity go a lot more than 2k... Exquisites go like 10k for lebron right now.
<< <i>You paid $475 and your being offered $700 + for it?
Take the sale. Instead of trying to hit grand slams, go for some doubles off the wall
No shame in taking profits. hard lessons learned from stock/options trading. >>
I likely sell it, I think the card is trimmed.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
you do not understand prospecting sir... >>
I absolutely don't understand it. Does this card have $3000 potential? I thought that was reserved for Pujols/Lebron type players.
Are you saying that simply being an MLB all-star will drive this cards value up to $2000?
I'm actually interested in your reasoning, but either way please reduce your sig line picture even if it is a legal size. No I won't complain, but it is common courtesy. >>
The card has unlimited potential considering this is his real rc auto and only auto from 2004 and /90... Also as soon as a prospect gets called up before he steps up goes for nuts. If he hit 300 and 20-30 hrs in his first two years the card would be insane.
Lebron and Pujols rcs similar in terms of rarity and set popularity go a lot more than 2k... Exquisites go like 10k for lebron right now. >>
: shakes head :
Personally, I don't understand your rational but good luck in whatever you decide to do
<< <i>48k is nice for a psa 10.. I had a friend that spent 150k at nationals on exquisite bkb this year... He just bought whatever he wanted when he wanted. He bought cases, lebrons, wades etc...
Also there was a guy with the wade3/3 exquisite rc gold auto patch, someone offered him 250k for it... Food for thought. >>
If your point is that modern cards go for a lot more than i think...then, assuming your totals are correct, you've made your point. But, i stand by my assessment....vintage cards on the whole bring in more. Here's a link. And remember, this is only one of many auctions that occur througout the year
mile high totals
as far as someone offering 250k for the wade card....to put that in perspective, a PSA 1 honus wagner card sold for $236,706 in 2005. The mona lisa of baseball cards is worth as much as a 3/3 dwayne wayne exquisite card. to each his own.
and modern cards vs vintage cards as an investment? i dont think of vintage cards as an investment, but high grade, primarily pre war (though post war, highly sought and/or rare cards also fit in this category) cards...and any grade pre war scarce issues bring in big money. Take the wagner example above. The last PSA 2 wagner sold was in 2000 for $74,918. Now, i may be in the wrong and you can tell me otherwise, but i dont think that dwayne ward card will triple in price over the span of 5 years.
now, i see modern cards as a short term investment. day trading. you can make a lot of moeny out of it, but the risk is high. I see vintage cards more as a better than average mutual fund. lower risk and peace of mind, but more time to wait for profit.
anyway, dont take my post as an offense to who you are as a person. this is my position and im just expressing it without trying to insult your intelligence, manhood or pride.
<< <i>I likely sell it, I think the card is trimmed. >>
If you think the card is trimmed, wouldnt you be doing the hobby a service by not putting it back in the market?
<< <i>
<< <i>I likely sell it, I think the card is trimmed. >>
If you think the card is trimmed, wouldnt you be doing the hobby a service by not putting it back in the market? >>
I obv don't know if it is, but my thoughts are it is... However it passed through psa and everyone here trusts psa right?
I also dont think this high dollar modern stuff is what long term collectors/investors are buying. It's all a continued money flip until the last guy gets burned....as someone said, somewhat like a pyramid scheme.
Dont get me wrong, Im not saying it isnt nice stuff cuz I like it too...but there is no way I would ever spend 1K on a modern card for my collection hoping he makes it to the pros. Now if I knew I had it sold for 1200, of course I would buy and flip it.
republican- Yes I am 19 years of age.
<< <i>yankee- A lot of prospects prices rise before he gets to the majors usually during spring trainning or when the rumors flow of a possible call up... I usually sell way before they ever get called up
>>
So you know, you are saying this to a 37 year old dude who has collected since he was 8 years old and at one time owned a card shop. LOL
<< <i>
<< <i>yankee- A lot of prospects prices rise before he gets to the majors usually during spring trainning or when the rumors flow of a possible call up... I usually sell way before they ever get called up
>>
So you know, you are saying this to a 37 year old dude who has collected since he was 8 years old and at one time owned a card shop. LOL >>
LOL
obv dc
<< <i>
republican- Yes I am 19 years of age. >>
and you joined here in 2003 when you were 15? WOW
<< <i>
<< <i>
republican- Yes I am 19 years of age. >>
and you joined here in 2003 when you were 15? WOW >>
Your math seems to be decent....
this board is about collecting. it is about people who love the hobby and have favorite teams, players or sets. they register their sets, they open wax pack in groups and their joys and sorrows. they trade cards and rarely if ever flip cards to try to make a quick buck. people here love discussing their collections. there are disagreements about players and sets but it comes from RESPECT for the hobby. there are sets and players that i have no interest in, but i am happy for the collector when they get an addition to their set and report here. i don't recall someone saying i got a good deal on a 1961 koufax and i am going to put it back up on ebay tonight.
you, young man have no RESPECT for the hobby. you are a pimp buying and selling with no love of card collecting. even the large dealers on ebay have love for the hobby. sure many of them make a good living, but they do it because they enjoy it. if you were buying these cards to put them in a set or registry many of us would be interested. but bragging how smart you think you are because you can buy a card one day of some unknown schmo for an ungodly amount and try to find a bigger sucker than you a couple days later is pretty boring.
when you said you want to become a lawyer/sports agent i know some of us thought another Drew Rosenhaus wannabee. i guess if you flunk out of college you will try your luck on the poker tour. you have a lot of growing up to do.