<< <i>One last thing, then I'll shut up. I'm really happy for Charlie Sanders and I caught the very end of his career, so I know how fine a player he was, but his stats also sort of pale in comparison to Jerry Smith's.
Jerry had double his TD total and nearly 100 more catches. Charlie seems to have gone to most of those Pro Bowls. (Their careers ran almost completely parallel.)
And anybody who snubs Jimmy Smith doesn't know Football. Period.
Man, am I glad pitchers and catchers report in a couple of weeks... >>
I think what helped Charlie Sanders push was his blocking prowess..When he was making Pro Bowls, it wasn't for his receiving skills...He was a good receiver, but not a HOF one..But combine that with his blocking skills and he was great player. Probably the best blocking TE of the era, and when he made catches, they were usually impressive catches..Not just routine 5 yards and turn around...
I went back to watch a little game tape I have that included Jerry Smith from the '66 season ...He was an excellent receiver, and surprisingly a DEEP THREAT from TE position!!! Dude was fast for a TE... But from the little I saw, he wasn't much of a blocker and thats being nice. In the pre-Ozzie Newsome, Kellen Winslow days, TEs were block first--catch 2nd and thats how they earned "pro bowl" type respect back then..That may explain Smith's lack of Pro Bowls and lack of HOF hype...They actually put him out at WR at times, and he did have a HOF QB throwing to him Sonny J...Interesting for those days... Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Sonny had a deep receiving corps, what with Jerry, Charley Taylor and Bobby Mitchell.
Speaking of that position and Smith being moved around and played at different spots...if you look at Monk as a de facto TE, which is what he pretty much was after the arrival in '86 of Gary Clark and Rickey Sanders as refugees from the USFL, then most of the objections about his career average per catch (which is comparable to Fred Biletnikoff's, among several other HOF WRs, incidentally), tend to melt away.
In that offense, the Skins used Clint Didier and (especially) Don Warren more as blockers than 3rd down possession guys. That was Art's role. Continuing to penalize him because he wasn't deployed exactly like Reed, Carter and Rice is simply ignorant of the deeper aspects of the game that lie past a simple tally sheet. It doesn't speak well of the voters and their understanding of the game.
Scott van Pelt just put it nicely on Sportscenter: Art still has more catches than anyone else in the Hall, including today's electees. Recap after recap of this class involves a mention of the mounting incredulity at his exclusion. It's eroding their very credibility.
I looked up Monk's playoff stats and compared them with Irvin. Possession receiver Monk actually averaged more yards per catch than Irvin the deep threat in playoff games. Interesting!
It's just a matter of time before Monk gets in.
Jasp, you got this right.........
Talking about Charlie Sanders blocking, during his career only one Lion running back went over 1000 yards in a season and that was Steve Owens in 1971, however as a team the Lions ranked in the top half of the NFC for 6 of his 10 years there. So evidently he was a fine blocker if we're judging him by his team's productivity. They never really had a 'great back' either during his career.
Lions leading rushers per year during Sanders career:
1968 Mel Farr ... 597 yards, team yards 1702, ranked 12th in NFC 1969 Triplett ...... 377, team 1755 ranked 6th in NFC (16 NFL teams) 1970 Farr .......... 717, team 2127 second in NFC (13 teams in NFC) 1971 Owens....... 1035, team 2376 led NFC (13 teams in NFC) 1972 A. Taylor ... 658, team 2021 7th in NFC (13 teams in NFC) 1973 A. Taylor .....719, team 2133 4th in NFC (13 teams ) 1974 A. Taylor.......532, team 1433 ranked 12 th in NFC (13 teams) 1975 Bussey .......696, team 2147 ranked 4th (13 teams) 1976 Bussey ...... 858, team 2213 ranked 5th (14 teams) 1977 King ......... 521, team 1706 ranked 12th (14 teams)
In 1979 the Lions slipped to last in the NFC in rushing yardage two years after Sanders' hung them up.
During Jerry Smith's career, the 'Skins had three 1000 yard seasons. Two from the great Larry Brown and one from Mike Thomas at the end of Smith's career. Prior to 1970, the Redskins ranked at or near the bottom of the NFC rushing totals every year. I doubt Smith prowess at blocking was the reason for the 1000 yard rushers. He was a great passing receiving end nonetheless.
I saw that playoff stat comparison table earlier today. (I've been posting about this all over the place and it's hard to keep straight what I've put where.)
They weren't The Hogs or anything, but the 70's line was pretty solid, especially Len Haus.
I am buying and trading for RC's of Wilt Chamberlain, George Mikan, Bill Russell, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Bob Cousy! Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Talking about Charlie Sanders blocking, during his career only one Lion running back went over 1000 yards in a season and that was Steve Owens in 1971, however as a team the Lions ranked in the top half of the NFC for 6 of his 10 years there. So evidently he was a fine blocker if we're judging him by his team's productivity. They never really had a 'great back' either during his career.
Lions leading rushers per year during Sanders career:
1968 Mel Farr ... 597 yards, team yards 1702, ranked 12th in NFC 1969 Triplett ...... 377, team 1755 ranked 6th in NFC (16 NFL teams) 1970 Farr .......... 717, team 2127 second in NFC (13 teams in NFC) 1971 Owens....... 1035, team 2376 led NFC (13 teams in NFC) 1972 A. Taylor ... 658, team 2021 7th in NFC (13 teams in NFC) 1973 A. Taylor .....719, team 2133 4th in NFC (13 teams ) 1974 A. Taylor.......532, team 1433 ranked 12 th in NFC (13 teams) 1975 Bussey .......696, team 2147 ranked 4th (13 teams) 1976 Bussey ...... 858, team 2213 ranked 5th (14 teams) 1977 King ......... 521, team 1706 ranked 12th (14 teams)
In 1979 the Lions slipped to last in the NFC in rushing yardage two years after Sanders' hung them up.
>>
Excellent breakdown...This is the type of stuff I like to see...Man, the Lions backfield was hurting for alot of years before Billy Simms and Barry Sanders showed up..lol...Although I do/did like watching Dexter Bussey..Reminds you of like a smaller Chuck Muncie..Guys who arent the biggest or the fastest, but just plain football players and would go head on with the best of them.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
<< <i>One last thing, then I'll shut up. I'm really happy for Charlie Sanders and I caught the very end of his career, so I know how fine a player he was, but his stats also sort of pale in comparison to Jerry Smith's.
Jerry had double his TD total and nearly 100 more catches. Charlie seems to have gone to most of those Pro Bowls. (Their careers ran almost completely parallel.)
And anybody who snubs Jimmy Smith doesn't know Football. Period.
Man, am I glad pitchers and catchers report in a couple of weeks... >>
I think what helped Charlie Sanders push was his blocking prowess..When he was making Pro Bowls, it wasn't for his receiving skills...He was a good receiver, but not a HOF one..But combine that with his blocking skills and he was great player. Probably the best blocking TE of the era, and when he made catches, they were usually impressive catches..Not just routine 5 yards and turn around...
I went back to watch a little game tape I have that included Jerry Smith from the '66 season ...He was an excellent receiver, and surprisingly a DEEP THREAT from TE position!!! Dude was fast for a TE... But from the little I saw, he wasn't much of a blocker and thats being nice. In the pre-Ozzie Newsome, Kellen Winslow days, TEs were block first--catch 2nd and thats how they earned "pro bowl" type respect back then..That may explain Smith's lack of Pro Bowls and lack of HOF hype...They actually put him out at WR at times, and he did have a HOF QB throwing to him Sonny J...Interesting for those days...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Speaking of that position and Smith being moved around and played at different spots...if you look at Monk as a de facto TE, which is what he pretty much was after the arrival in '86 of Gary Clark and Rickey Sanders as refugees from the USFL, then most of the objections about his career average per catch (which is comparable to Fred Biletnikoff's, among several other HOF WRs, incidentally), tend to melt away.
In that offense, the Skins used Clint Didier and (especially) Don Warren more as blockers than 3rd down possession guys. That was Art's role. Continuing to penalize him because he wasn't deployed exactly like Reed, Carter and Rice is simply ignorant of the deeper aspects of the game that lie past a simple tally sheet. It doesn't speak well of the voters and their understanding of the game.
Scott van Pelt just put it nicely on Sportscenter: Art still has more catches than anyone else in the Hall, including today's electees. Recap after recap of this class involves a mention of the mounting incredulity at his exclusion. It's eroding their very credibility.
So much for me letting this go, I guess
It's just a matter of time before Monk gets in.
Jasp, you got this right.........
Talking about Charlie Sanders blocking, during his career only one Lion running back went over 1000 yards in a season and that was Steve Owens in 1971, however as a team the Lions ranked in the top half of the NFC for 6 of his 10 years there. So evidently he was a fine blocker if we're judging him by his team's productivity. They never really had a 'great back' either during his career.
Lions leading rushers per year during Sanders career:
1968 Mel Farr ... 597 yards, team yards 1702, ranked 12th in NFC
1969 Triplett ...... 377, team 1755 ranked 6th in NFC (16 NFL teams)
1970 Farr .......... 717, team 2127 second in NFC (13 teams in NFC)
1971 Owens....... 1035, team 2376 led NFC (13 teams in NFC)
1972 A. Taylor ... 658, team 2021 7th in NFC (13 teams in NFC)
1973 A. Taylor .....719, team 2133 4th in NFC (13 teams )
1974 A. Taylor.......532, team 1433 ranked 12 th in NFC (13 teams)
1975 Bussey .......696, team 2147 ranked 4th (13 teams)
1976 Bussey ...... 858, team 2213 ranked 5th (14 teams)
1977 King ......... 521, team 1706 ranked 12th (14 teams)
In 1979 the Lions slipped to last in the NFC in rushing yardage two years after Sanders' hung them up.
During Jerry Smith's career, the 'Skins had three 1000 yard seasons. Two from the great Larry Brown and one from Mike Thomas at the end of Smith's career. Prior to 1970, the Redskins ranked at or near the bottom of the NFC rushing totals every year. I doubt Smith prowess at blocking was the reason for the 1000 yard rushers. He was a great passing receiving end nonetheless.
They weren't The Hogs or anything, but the 70's line was pretty solid, especially Len Haus.
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
<< <i>
Jasp, you got this right.........
Talking about Charlie Sanders blocking, during his career only one Lion running back went over 1000 yards in a season and that was Steve Owens in 1971, however as a team the Lions ranked in the top half of the NFC for 6 of his 10 years there. So evidently he was a fine blocker if we're judging him by his team's productivity. They never really had a 'great back' either during his career.
Lions leading rushers per year during Sanders career:
1968 Mel Farr ... 597 yards, team yards 1702, ranked 12th in NFC
1969 Triplett ...... 377, team 1755 ranked 6th in NFC (16 NFL teams)
1970 Farr .......... 717, team 2127 second in NFC (13 teams in NFC)
1971 Owens....... 1035, team 2376 led NFC (13 teams in NFC)
1972 A. Taylor ... 658, team 2021 7th in NFC (13 teams in NFC)
1973 A. Taylor .....719, team 2133 4th in NFC (13 teams )
1974 A. Taylor.......532, team 1433 ranked 12 th in NFC (13 teams)
1975 Bussey .......696, team 2147 ranked 4th (13 teams)
1976 Bussey ...... 858, team 2213 ranked 5th (14 teams)
1977 King ......... 521, team 1706 ranked 12th (14 teams)
In 1979 the Lions slipped to last in the NFC in rushing yardage two years after Sanders' hung them up.
>>
Excellent breakdown...This is the type of stuff I like to see...Man, the Lions backfield was hurting for alot of years before Billy Simms and Barry Sanders showed up..lol...Although I do/did like watching Dexter Bussey..Reminds you of like a smaller Chuck Muncie..Guys who arent the biggest or the fastest, but just plain football players and would go head on with the best of them.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.