whizzed 1892 S on ebay

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Buyer states the coin is cleaned, but it is clearly whizzed. Unfortunately, this coin will probably go for a lot

linky

guitarwes

looks sandblasted...........PROBLEM COIN<<<<<<>>>>>>>>STAY AWAY PEOPLE........

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH








I have no idea what that was all about.

mr1931S

May have actually been unc just prior to being whizzed. There are no breast feathers to be seen. BAD whiz job. Anyone who buys this coin thinking they might be getting an unc for "AU cleaned" money is in for a big surprise when comes time to sell. This coin has been ruined by some fool.

excerpt from The Morgan and Peace Dollar Textbook by Wayne Miller:

"Because of its rarity in higher grades, the 1892-S is often counterfeited. Never buy a high-grade 1892-s without proof of authenticity. Further, grading is so critical,examine such a specimen very carefully. Ignore advertisements of "typical weak strike BU" 1892-S dollars. Of the twenty or so mint state specimens the author has examined, virtually all were well struck. (An exception was the piece in Auction '80, which was quite flat.)

The technical problems of putting a passable "S" on a genuine 1892 dollar are not as great as putting an "S" on a Lincoln cent, for example.
Also,uncirculated but flatly struck 1892 dollars with indifferent luster and heavy abrasions were commonly seen by Miller. What greater candidate could there be for putting an "S" on and "brightening up" a bit?

There is a high possibility that we are looking at a whizzed fake here.

66RB

<< <i>Buyer states the coin is cleaned, but it is clearly whizzed. Unfortunately, this coin will probably go for a lot >>



For those of us unsure...how can you tell the coin is 'clearly whizzed?'

57loaded

if i was guessing, which i am i'd say it's a fake.

the "wear" on the breast feathers and good detail almost everywhere else, would put big stop signs up for me.

basestealer

whizzed=treated with a wire brush to produce artificial mint lustre

Here's an AU50 version with breast feathers
Look at my breasts

basestealer

There seems to be quite a few fake 1892 S morgans on ebay. Most say they are repros. I would think if a dealer had a legit one, they'd get it certified, unless of course it was rejected.

notwilight

<< <i>looks sandblasted...........PROBLEM COIN<<<<<<>>>>>>>>STAY AWAY PEOPLE........ AHHHHHHHHHHHHH I have no idea what that was all about. >>



I don't know what that was all about either....advice with problem coins is always "Run!" "Run away fast!" or "Just stay away"...Seems that even a whizzed or otherwise "problem" rare coin should have some value. We're ok paying less for a lower grade coin but only if the wear was put on the normally. do you guys think that this coin is just worth melt now?

66RB

<< <i>whizzed=treated with a wire brush to produce artificial mint lustre

Here's an AU50 version with breast feathers
Look at my breasts >>



thanks basestealer, but I know what whizzing is and how it is done.

My question was how can someone tell from that photo the coin is 'clearly whizzed.'

I'm trying to learn and I'm sure others will find it very helpful to know how to spot a whizzed coin from an eBay photo.

skier07

The slabbed 92S looks pretty unattractive. It looks like it's been overdipped or the photo images are just
plain lousy. The slabbed one is also in a third world holder. Perhaps PCI is better than some of the other alphabet
companies, but to me they lack integrity and their reputation leaves quite a bit to be desired. Look at the buy it
now price. The seller is asking around $1200. The greysheet price on an AU 92S is around $1500. Something
doesn't make sense. A 92S which is problem free should get a top dollar price. Just my two cents.

Bruce

WinPitcher

Seller deals in NTC coins, need I say anymore?


Steve

basestealer

<< <i>

<< <i>whizzed=treated with a wire brush to produce artificial mint lustre

Here's an AU50 version with breast feathers
Look at my breasts >>



thanks basestealer, but I know what whizzing is and how it is done.

My question was how can someone tell from that photo the coin is 'clearly whizzed.'

I'm trying to learn and I'm sure others will find it very helpful to know how to spot a whizzed coin from an eBay photo. >>


I think the problem with this coin is that it suddenly has "full luster", yet it is clearly worn on its breast feathers. Someone with more knowledge might be able to explain how that is possible, but I think the options a) counterfeit or b) was circulated, then dipped, then whizzed make some sense. I don't think a mint state coins should show any signs of wear through circulation. And if it's got a full mint luster, yet details are worn, you have to ask how that happened?

sonoranmonsoon

I certainly do not have the expertise that many of you have, but I can not tell for sure from the photo if this is whizzed or not. Very possible. The point I want to make is this. Whizzed or not, buying any raw coin on EBAY is extremely risky. If you can not hold it in your hand, it is best not to try and guess. I do not even look at raw coins on ebay anymore. Simply not worth the dissapointment or the energy to spend time on.

skier07

I certainly do not have the expertise that many of you have, but I can not tell for sure from the photo if this is whizzed or not. Very possible. The point I want to make is this. Whizzed or not, buying any raw coin on EBAY is extremely risky. If you can not hold it in your hand, it is best not to try and guess. I do not even look at raw coins on ebay anymore. Simply not worth the dissapointment or the energy to spend time on.



AMEN


Bruce

segoja

Looks like the pic was whizzed to me.

Tyler1924S

I think the artificial looking "bright" or "shiney" appearance of this coin (which just looks all wrong, largely due to the lack of contrast between devices and fields) is what leads people to conclude this one has been whizzed. Also, It has the look of having been accomplished mechanically, as opposed to rubbing by hand. However, I think you can only be sure by having the coin "in hand" (not that I would want it anywhere near me) to determine the directionality of the hairlines. I agree, it's a horrible mess, looks like someone used emery cloth on it. At least this seller has made light of a problem with the coin. While it is not the correct problem (someone can always argue that whizzing or whatever abrasive was used has "cleaned" the coin), at least he made mention of it, whereas many sellers would not.

Coxe

I have little doubt that it is genuine. Someone wrecked what was almost certainly a very nice coin. At least it is not a VAM-2. It's sort of the nightmare case of someone new thinking they can improve a coin and trying their stuff out on the worst guinea pig choice possible in the box.

ricko

If you look at the 'granularity' around and on the face (obverse) and the partially removed toning by the forehead, then the fine lines below the arrow feathers and across the leaves, and the S is seriously abraded. Then the 'glow' induced around the eagle. These are all clues... whizzed, blasted whatever, this is one bad coin. Cheers, RickO

mr1931S

"For those of us unsure...how can you tell the coin is 'clearly whizzed?'"

I'll take a shot at this even though "clearly whizzed" are not my words.The coin that is the subject of this thread is clearly bereft of breast feathers. An otherwise EF or AU Morgan dollar that was originally well struck should definitely be showing some feather details around the edges of the eagle's breast. The center of the breast could be absent of feather details for XF or AU but not the edges, which are slightly lower in relief.One can only conclude that the feathers were physically buffed off, or in other words, the coin was ineptly whizzed.

basestealer

Or, that it was a poorly struck fake that never had breast feathers to begin with. But that seems to be the minority opinion with this coin...

morgansforever

Where are the bag marks on the cheek, if it's AU?
I have plenty of 63's with all kinds of marks on the cheek.

etexmike

You need to really know the series of coin if you are buying raw off of ebay.

Otherwise, stick to the top TPG's for the key dates and save yourself some grief and some money down the road.

-------------

etexmike

Cam40

it looks like someone took some fine grain sandpaper and did a little touch-up
work on the baggy areas and left the clean areas alone.
how nice, they only ruined part of the coin.

notwilight

Ok, I'll ask again. What would be fair money for a whizzed coin? I still think it's above melt.

seateddime

what a piece of junk

notwilight

<< <i>what a piece of junk >>



Yep. Melt it.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

<< <i>

<< <i>looks sandblasted...........PROBLEM COIN<<<<<<>>>>>>>>STAY AWAY PEOPLE........ AHHHHHHHHHHHHH I have no idea what that was all about. >>



I don't know what that was all about either....advice with problem coins is always "Run!" "Run away fast!" or "Just stay away"...Seems that even a whizzed or otherwise "problem" rare coin should have some value. We're ok paying less for a lower grade coin but only if the wear was put on the normally. do you guys think that this coin is just worth melt now? >>



often, very rare coins will still have significant value after whizzing (for example, whizzed stellas are worth, on average, about 15-25 grand), but a coin like that is probably woroth only about $15-$20 now

notwilight

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>looks sandblasted...........PROBLEM COIN<<<<<<>>>>>>>>STAY AWAY PEOPLE........ AHHHHHHHHHHHHH I have no idea what that was all about. >>

I don't know what that was all about either....advice with problem coins is always "Run!" "Run away fast!" or "Just stay away"...Seems that even a whizzed or otherwise "problem" rare coin should have some value. We're ok paying less for a lower grade coin but only if the wear was put on the normally. do you guys think that this coin is just worth melt now? >>

often, very rare coins will still have significant value after whizzing (for example, whizzed stellas are worth, on average, about 15-25 grand), but a coin like that is probably woroth only about $15-$20 now >>



WOW!!! Thanks for the answer. I just looked and the PCGS price guide shows this coin worth $145 even in VF. So whizzing it makes it less than that. I also noticed some incentive for the perp to do the whizzing: the coin goes from $5K to $32K from 58 to 62 if he is successfuy. Also, if this one was practice and he lost $5k on it, if the next one is successful he still cleans up. --Jerry