<< <i>The problem with your equations is that there is no fixed premium, I think you should consult further with the rest of your engineering team but please don't forget to keep an eye on the reactors while you are in the meeting. >>
M and F are the only two variables. Two equations in two variables has a unique real solution for both variables. Give me numbers you want to use for coin sell prices and melt and I'll calculate them both for you. --Jerry
<< <i>Soon I will need to edit my ModernCrap Thead to 300% profit >>
See, this thread is a *perfect* example of what many people have been saying when accused of "modern bashing." These threads make it look like the interest in these issues is NOTHING but financial and has little if anything to do with coin collecting.
It is a focus on NOTHING but profit and price appreciation, and as much as many of the "classic" collectors you people are taunting care about price appreciation it isn't the end-all-be-all for their coin accumulations as it seems to be with many of you in this thread. And it is THAT -- NOT the coins themselves or when they were minted -- that leaves a bad taste in a lot of mouths. Not that making an honest buck is evil or anything, but let's call it what it is and not pretend it's "collecting."
Heck with a car you know 20% is gone the minute you walk out the showroom. At least used car dealers make some sort of secondary market. So I guess with Moderns then the rule is 95% down when you buy it??? Still no need for marketmakers?
------------------------- Laura Sperber lsperber1@hotmail.com JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
I am not a dealer, And I dont make a living selling coins, this is only a hobby for me. I really dont care if the platinum set is going up 100% or 1000%(well I will take this back for a 1000%)My only point on my threads is to show that you can buy ModernCrap without loosing money(Contrary to what some of the dealers here wants you to believe) Keith
Edited: Saturday July 15, 2006 at 5:54 PM by Legend
Uh-oh! Watch out, everybody! Ziggy can't find a different parade to rain on! See, Ziggy just has to read the thread that doesn't interest him. Can he go a full day without bashing?
Yes, Ziggy, we are all gloating in our profit. I'll admit it. It feels good, too. There is a certain part of me that is gloating because those Modern bashers (look in mirror now) were wrong about price destruction. PS- I have sold NONE of mine, because I want to be a collector of coins or bullion or medals or disc shaped precious metals or whatever catagory you modern bashers (mirror now) put them in today.
Have a very nice day and enjoy the rest of this thread! Oh, and thank you for your kind comment...keep 'em comin'!
See, this thread is a *perfect* example of what many people have been saying when accused of "modern bashing." These threads make it look like the interest in these issues is NOTHING but financial and has little if anything to do with coin collecting.
Then why are you reading this post and not contributing something positive?
Like this:
Well guys, I think that I will be selling a few of my Proof Plats extras from a few years ago, so that I can focus on getting a really nice Large Cent Specimen at the St. Louis Show that is coming up. Then, I can come back to the forum and discuss how I am helping to shore up the classic coin market.
See? That was easy.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Sorry but I think there's a lot of people rather the coin is modern or classic that would sell a coin if you could make 300% profit! I bet a lot of people in the late 80's wish they would have sold there classics at it's peak to buy them back latter, and many of us did. This has little to do with what type of coin you collect but more to do with "stupid" money for a coin IMO.
<< <i>There is a certain part of me that is gloating because those Modern bashers (look in mirror now) were wrong about price destruction. >>
See what I mean? I've NEVER said anything against collecting these pieces -- I collect some modern Mint issues, too -- and you use that "look in the mirror crap (yes, CRAP) to call that "modern bashing." Questioning whether not market will stand the test of time (I never said it wouldn't, by the way, just that it was a young and volatile market with all the risk that entails) is NOT "modern bashing" except to hypersensitive people with a chip on their shoulder. And if that shoe fits, sir, wear it with pride.
By the way, almost no one who predicted "price destruction" stated a time frame for it. I don't know whether they will ultimately be right or wrong, but it's WAY too early to call them wrong. Just because the market continues up or steady for a while doesn't mean they will be wrong in the longer term.
I was neither bashing moderns nor predicting price destructions. Goes to show how well you can identify individuals with the specific message; that is, not well at all.
<< <i>Then why are you reading this post and not contributing something positive? >>
Because I am interested in the coin market and all segments of it and what they are doing.
It's the gloating and in-your-face statements that I take exception to. It's not bad enough that people are called "modern bashers" for voicing concerns about this market based on other historical examples in the world of financial markets; now, people are being accused of making statements and holding beliefs they do not believe (see the reply by "fastrudy" above).
By the way -- I just picked up a couple of four-piece modern UK Britannia sets. One is a silver 1997 set (in demand as the first year of issue), one a silver 2001 set and the third a gold 1987 set, all purchased within the last two weeks. I like the coins and I think I'll be trying to buy more of them. Pretty strange thing for a "modern basher" to do, don't you think? Hey fastrudy, what do you think of that? I'm "looking in the mirror" and I'm seeing that most of my recent purchases have been MODERNS!
Yeah ziggy, you are right. These threads do make it seem that way. So here is why I am happy to be collecting these uncirc platinums--
These are nice looking coins with an interesting and relevant three year theme. Being new to platinum, I like that I can complete this set without worrying about the Vistas of Liberty releases that I missed in the proof series. Plus, the allegory on the reverse is a nice departure from the designs on other recent modern coins.
Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor".
<< <i>Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor".
Sure looks like those Classic collectors should have took the money and ran (I did but didn't have the income to hit the home run last time). History does repeat itself so rather a Classic or Modern collector I'd learn the lessons of the past.
<< <i>Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor". >>
I don't own any Saints. I used to own a nice AU-58 Saint, but I had to sell it when we were strapped for cash for a while.
The thing about what happened in '89 is...it's some of the perspective that "old-timers" are coming from when they warn about markets that seem overheated. The faster things rise, the harder they tend to fall eventually. It happened to classics leading up the the Crash of '89, and it could happen again. It's a shame that some people seem to think mentioning that has to be "sour grapes," because it shouldn't have to be. It's easier for some people to just call it all "modern bashing" to dismiss it.
I really do like the new platinum design, lest anyone think differently. If the Mint wasn't producing so much wallet-draining stuff, I'd probably have a set myself.
<< <i>Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor". >>
I don't own any Saints. I used to own a nice AU-58 Saint, but I had to sell it when we were strapped for cash for a while.
The thing about what happened in '89 is...it's some of the perspective that "old-timers" are coming from when they warn about markets that seem overheated. The faster things rise, the harder they tend to fall eventually. It's a shame that some people seem to think mentioning that has to be "sour grapes," because it shouldn't have to be. It's easier for some people to just call it all "modern bashing" to dismiss it.
I really do like the new platinum design, lest anyone think differently. If the Mint wasn't producing so much wallet-draining stuff, I'd probably have a set myself. >>
Ziggy,
Not really trying to pick on you but yes everyone should be aware of the past, it doesn't matter if your a classic or modern collector when you see "stupid" money being thrown around you should SELL PERIOD! The thing about this market is I see Gold acutally going to 1200 to 1500 in the next 4 years holding up some of these prices. If this set ever make 10k everyone should take there profits because that will be way over Platinum value even if it raises IMO. I think the Classic Saints and Libs are great right now to have some gold on hand to go with your stock investments and those MS63's are only $150 or so above spot. If the FED cracks down on gold ownership there's a very good chance these 20 century coin will be exempt just like the old gold collectors coins in 1933. They are much better than a mear bullion coin IMO.
This is a cool coin to collect if you brought it from the mint but if prices rise much more I'd say sell and buy in back in 10 years if you want it.
On the subject of the one ounce 2006 W Platinum, I've seen a few images, and a few in person that on the reverse rim above the "States" area there is quite a bit of roughness there. Anybody else seen this? I guess they still grade high. Case in point No, not looking to buy it just curious is all.
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
<< <i>On the subject of the one ounce 2006 W Platinum, I've seen a few images, and a few in person that on the reverse rim above the "States" area there is quite a bit of roughness there. Anybody else seen this? I guess they still grade high. Case in point No, not looking to buy it just curious is all. >>
Yes, nearly all of the 12 full-oz coins I bought showed these irregularities on the rim. A few also showed roughness in the field just below the rim in that area. I was taken aback by this and considered not even bothering to send my coins in for grading. I ended up selecting three for FS slabbing; it's good to know that they're "without flaws" after all. <rolling eyes> The strikes on all are certainly outstanding, but I don't see why they don't just max at out at 69.
I happen to have purchased much more of these w mint platinum and gold uncs than the average collector.
In my mind, anyone buying one or two of these sets are buying them mostly as a collector. More than two per collector and/or his friends is now investing or even speculating in the excess amounts purchased in my opinion.
I hope and stand to make some very decent and quick profits but aside from keeping one or so of these sets, my ultimate objective is eventually churn my profits back into the classic coins I enjoy more.
I have to admit that the 2003, 2004, and 2005 proof platinum sets have turned me on and have bought two sets of them in the past year.
I also think these w mint platinum uncirculated sets do have a theoretical maximum market limit of about $6000- $8000 as that means $1500 - $2000 per coin which then becomes a bit pricey even when compared to the low mintages.
EDITED TO CLARIFY THAT THIS THERORETICAL MAXIMUM IS FOR THE SHORT TERM OF UP TO FIVE (5) YEARS. AFTER 5 YEARS, WHO KNOWS?
<< <i> I also think these w mint platinum uncirculated sets do have a theoretical maximum market limit of about $6000- $8000 as that means $1500 - $2000 per coin which then becomes a bit pricey even when compared to the low mintages. >>
Comments
FloridaBill
<< <i>The problem with your equations is that there is no fixed premium, I think you should consult further with the rest of your engineering team but please don't forget to keep an eye on the reactors while you are in the meeting.
M and F are the only two variables. Two equations in two variables has a unique real solution for both variables. Give me numbers you want to use for coin sell prices and melt and I'll calculate them both for you. --Jerry
If so, I will do fine. Being a lazy procrastinator might not be so bad after all.
Disclaimer-This is NOT one of my sets!
Keith
Not mine either but I'm glad to see it
<< <i>Closed at $7806.60 . . . Isn't this the highest to date???? >>
Looks like it!!!
Will this Link be the highest???
(sorry but I could not figure out how to link to it)
<< <i>PCGS 70 Set on Ebay now, $7,600 with 2 days left
(sorry but I could not figure out how to link to it) >>
Couldn't find one @ $7600.
Did you mean to say $6700?
Note: the reserve hasn't been met.
at anything less than $8,000.00 is getting a major bargain.
Shouldn't be long before raw-ungraded/MS69 sets
will be commanding the $6700+ price. They are
already at $5,000.00+
<< <i>I would say that anyone getting a complete PCGS MS70 4-Coin W-Platinum set
at anything less than $8,000.00 is getting a major bargain.
Shouldn't be long before raw-ungraded/MS69 sets
will be commanding the $6700+ price. They are
already at $5,000.00+ >>
Come the end of this month, they will be REQUIRED in the uncirculated registry sets
<< <i>quatro... where do you see that the 2006-W is required? >>
Brian,
I got it straight from the woman in charge of the set registry!
Looks like NGC is commanding big bucks also!!
Link
<< <i>What kind of accepted offers for these 2 NGC MS70 sets, I wonder??????
Looks like NGC is commanding big bucks also!!
Link >>
Nah! This is only ModernCrap, they are not coins
Keith
<< <i>Laura?
No, BJ Searls.
bj@collectors.com
<< <i>Soon I will need to edit my ModernCrap Thead to 300% profit
See, this thread is a *perfect* example of what many people have been saying when accused of "modern bashing." These threads make it look like the interest in these issues is NOTHING but financial and has little if anything to do with coin collecting.
It is a focus on NOTHING but profit and price appreciation, and as much as many of the "classic" collectors you people are taunting care about price appreciation it isn't the end-all-be-all for their coin accumulations as it seems to be with many of you in this thread. And it is THAT -- NOT the coins themselves or when they were minted -- that leaves a bad taste in a lot of mouths. Not that making an honest buck is evil or anything, but let's call it what it is and not pretend it's "collecting."
Heck with a car you know 20% is gone the minute you walk out the showroom. At least used car dealers make some sort of secondary market. So I guess with Moderns then the rule is 95% down when you buy it???
Still no need for marketmakers?
-------------------------
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
I am not a dealer, And I dont make a living selling coins, this is only a hobby for me. I really dont care if the platinum set is going up 100% or 1000%(well I will take this back for a 1000%
Keith
Edited: Saturday July 15, 2006 at 5:54 PM by Legend
Yes, Ziggy, we are all gloating in our profit. I'll admit it. It feels good, too. There is a certain part of me that is gloating because those Modern bashers (look in mirror now) were wrong about price destruction. PS- I have sold NONE of mine, because I want to be a collector of coins or bullion or medals or disc shaped precious metals or whatever catagory you modern bashers (mirror now) put them in today.
Have a very nice day and enjoy the rest of this thread! Oh, and thank you for your kind comment...keep 'em comin'!
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
Then why are you reading this post and not contributing something positive?
Like this:
Well guys, I think that I will be selling a few of my Proof Plats extras from a few years ago, so that I can focus on getting a really nice Large Cent Specimen at the St. Louis Show that is coming up. Then, I can come back to the forum and discuss how I am helping to shore up the classic coin market.
See? That was easy.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>There is a certain part of me that is gloating because those Modern bashers (look in mirror now) were wrong about price destruction. >>
See what I mean? I've NEVER said anything against collecting these pieces -- I collect some modern Mint issues, too -- and you use that "look in the mirror crap (yes, CRAP) to call that "modern bashing." Questioning whether not market will stand the test of time (I never said it wouldn't, by the way, just that it was a young and volatile market with all the risk that entails) is NOT "modern bashing" except to hypersensitive people with a chip on their shoulder. And if that shoe fits, sir, wear it with pride.
By the way, almost no one who predicted "price destruction" stated a time frame for it. I don't know whether they will ultimately be right or wrong, but it's WAY too early to call them wrong. Just because the market continues up or steady for a while doesn't mean they will be wrong in the longer term.
I was neither bashing moderns nor predicting price destructions. Goes to show how well you can identify individuals with the specific message; that is, not well at all.
The metal value of the plats, is the base value supporting the coins.
If one is wise enough to get them from the mint, then the mark up
is not unreasonable. The plats have enormous potential against a limited
down side.
If one buys the plats on the secondary market, with the expectation of dramatic
rewards, then yes, the risk is increased as the premium paid over metal value increases.
In one of the periodic downturns in the coin market, I have seen the value of high grade
classic coins, plummet by 70% or more. At the right price, most things collected are OK. Although
the potential on some is greater ,as demand grows. We see that even classic coins with great demand
can get priced out of the realm of reason and then they too become speculative purchases. Classic as well
as modern coins like plats, must always be viewed against responsible evaluations of rarity, demand and price.
Camelot
<< <i>Then why are you reading this post and not contributing something positive? >>
Because I am interested in the coin market and all segments of it and what they are doing.
It's the gloating and in-your-face statements that I take exception to. It's not bad enough that people are called "modern bashers" for voicing concerns about this market based on other historical examples in the world of financial markets; now, people are being accused of making statements and holding beliefs they do not believe (see the reply by "fastrudy" above).
By the way -- I just picked up a couple of four-piece modern UK Britannia sets. One is a silver 1997 set (in demand as the first year of issue), one a silver 2001 set and the third a gold 1987 set, all purchased within the last two weeks. I like the coins and I think I'll be trying to buy more of them. Pretty strange thing for a "modern basher" to do, don't you think? Hey fastrudy, what do you think of that? I'm "looking in the mirror" and I'm seeing that most of my recent purchases have been MODERNS!
And we thought he just stood there
These are nice looking coins with an interesting and relevant three year theme. Being new to platinum, I like that I can complete this set without worrying about the Vistas of Liberty releases that I missed in the proof series. Plus, the allegory on the reverse is a nice departure from the designs on other recent modern coins.
MS63 Saint's historic prices/peak
<< <i>Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor".
MS63 Saint's historic prices/peak >>
Ouch
1980-1884
1985-1989
Sure looks like those Classic collectors should have took the money and ran (I did but didn't have the income to hit the home run last time). History does repeat itself so rather a Classic or Modern collector I'd learn the lessons of the past.
<< <i>Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor". >>
I don't own any Saints. I used to own a nice AU-58 Saint, but I had to sell it when we were strapped for cash for a while.
The thing about what happened in '89 is...it's some of the perspective that "old-timers" are coming from when they warn about markets that seem overheated. The faster things rise, the harder they tend to fall eventually. It happened to classics leading up the the Crash of '89, and it could happen again. It's a shame that some people seem to think mentioning that has to be "sour grapes," because it shouldn't have to be. It's easier for some people to just call it all "modern bashing" to dismiss it.
I really do like the new platinum design, lest anyone think differently. If the Mint wasn't producing so much wallet-draining stuff, I'd probably have a set myself.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey Ziggy are you one of those that hung on to your common Saint's (Classic) jut because you were a collector? I myself aren't married to any coin even though I'm a collector, there's just to much to collect that's "out of favor". >>
I don't own any Saints. I used to own a nice AU-58 Saint, but I had to sell it when we were strapped for cash for a while.
The thing about what happened in '89 is...it's some of the perspective that "old-timers" are coming from when they warn about markets that seem overheated. The faster things rise, the harder they tend to fall eventually. It's a shame that some people seem to think mentioning that has to be "sour grapes," because it shouldn't have to be. It's easier for some people to just call it all "modern bashing" to dismiss it.
I really do like the new platinum design, lest anyone think differently. If the Mint wasn't producing so much wallet-draining stuff, I'd probably have a set myself. >>
Ziggy,
Not really trying to pick on you but yes everyone should be aware of the past, it doesn't matter if your a classic or modern collector when you see "stupid" money being thrown around you should SELL PERIOD! The thing about this market is I see Gold acutally going to 1200 to 1500 in the next 4 years holding up some of these prices. If this set ever make 10k everyone should take there profits because that will be way over Platinum value even if it raises IMO. I think the Classic Saints and Libs are great right now to have some gold on hand to go with your stock investments and those MS63's are only $150 or so above spot. If the FED cracks down on gold ownership there's a very good chance these 20 century coin will be exempt just like the old gold collectors coins in 1933. They are much better than a mear bullion coin IMO.
This is a cool coin to collect if you brought it from the mint but if prices rise much more I'd say sell and buy in back in 10 years if you want it.
"Bear
Wise Old Bear
Posts: 30238
Joined: Dec 2001
Sunday January 14, 2007 2:18 PM (NEW!)
True, the market for plats is small but it is rapidly expanding.
The metal value of the plats, is the base value supporting the coins.
If one is wise enough to get them from the mint, then the mark up
is not unreasonable. The plats have enormous potential against a limited
down side.
If one buys the plats on the secondary market, with the expectation of dramatic
rewards, then yes, the risk is increased as the premium paid over metal value increases.
In one of the periodic downturns in the coin market, I have seen the value of high grade
classic coins, plummet by 70% or more. At the right price, most things collected are OK. Although
the potential on some is greater ,as demand grows. We see that even classic coins with great demand
can get priced out of the realm of reason and then they too become speculative purchases. Classic as well
as modern coins like plats, must always be viewed against responsible evaluations of rarity, demand and price. "
Excellent comments. I'm with Bear
ericj96
<< <i>On the subject of the one ounce 2006 W Platinum, I've seen a few images, and a few in person that on the reverse rim above the "States" area there is quite a bit of roughness there. Anybody else seen this? I guess they still grade high. Case in point No, not looking to buy it just curious is all.
Yes, nearly all of the 12 full-oz coins I bought showed these irregularities on the rim. A few also showed roughness in the field just below the rim in that area. I was taken aback by this and considered not even bothering to send my coins in for grading. I ended up selecting three for FS slabbing; it's good to know that they're "without flaws" after all. <rolling eyes> The strikes on all are certainly outstanding, but I don't see why they don't just max at out at 69.
In my mind, anyone buying one or two of these sets are buying them mostly as a collector. More than two per collector and/or his friends is now investing or even speculating in the excess amounts purchased in my opinion.
I hope and stand to make some very decent and quick profits but aside from keeping one or so of these sets, my ultimate objective is eventually churn my profits back into the classic coins I enjoy more.
I have to admit that the 2003, 2004, and 2005 proof platinum sets have turned me on and have bought two sets of them in the past year.
I also think these w mint platinum uncirculated sets do have a theoretical maximum market limit of about $6000- $8000 as that means $1500 - $2000 per coin which then becomes a bit pricey even when compared to the low mintages.
EDITED TO CLARIFY THAT THIS THERORETICAL MAXIMUM IS FOR THE SHORT TERM OF UP TO FIVE (5) YEARS. AFTER 5 YEARS, WHO KNOWS?
<< <i>
I also think these w mint platinum uncirculated sets do have a theoretical maximum market limit of about $6000- $8000 as that means $1500 - $2000 per coin which then becomes a bit pricey even when compared to the low mintages. >>
How do you arrive at a theoretical market limit?