Give the money you were refunded to Mark Feld and have him mediate with centsles and USPS to make sure someone takes some of their money back.
My guess is that if either you or centsles tried to reimburse the post office, they wouldn't have the form for it, and it would throw them into such confusion that someone might get another refund. Actually, it might be fun to try.
I would like to apologize to gamer1958 for my comments early yesterday. It is out of character for me to make those type of comments without knowing all the facts. They were uncalled for and I am sorry I wrote them.
I have been chastised by several board members - rightly so. I will be more careful in the future.
I know that Gamer58 is just trying to do the right thing in an unusual situation. I should not have piled on.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Give the money you were refunded to Mark Feld and have him mediate with centsles and USPS to make sure someone takes some of their money back.
My guess is that if either you or centsles tried to reimburse the post office, they wouldn't have the form for it, and it would throw them into such confusion that someone might get another refund. Actually, it might be fun to try. >>
Such ado over a $35 coin.
Contact centsles, telling him what came to pass and see what he thinks. He might just say, "Keep the coin." If he wants the refund back or the coin back, that's his call. The ethics issue with the post office is his at that point, and that is presuming he bought the insurance and filed the claim. The buyer was not involved with the post office directly and really wouldn't be in a position to remedy anything, if there is something to remedy with them.
I had to exonerate a guy on another message board a while back. Only thing, I didn't buy insurance so the seller told me too bad so sad. A year later the coin arrived, postmarked from a year earlier. I was finally able to stop thinking that the seller had ripped me off.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
<< <i>I had to exonerate a guy on another message board a while back. Only thing, I didn't buy insurance so the seller told me too bad so sad. A year later the coin arrived, postmarked from a year earlier. I was finally able to stop thinking that the seller had ripped me off. >>
Geez. This is ridiculous. Makes one wonder if the Feds aren't targetting coin collectors for unAmerican activities and are just backlogged going through their intercepted mail.
<<< << I had to exonerate a guy on another message board a while back. Only thing, I didn't buy insurance so the seller told me too bad so sad. A year later the coin arrived, postmarked from a year earlier. I was finally able to stop thinking that the seller had ripped me off. >>
Geez. This is ridiculous. Makes one wonder if the Feds aren't targetting coin collectors for unAmerican activities and are just backlogged going through their intercepted mail. >>>
It was explained to me that sometimes letters accidently get left in the mail tubs when they are emptied and the empties are stacked over in the corner until they are need again, at which time the "lost" letter is placed back into the system again when the tub is reused. What blows my mind is when I get letters with footprints and tiretracks on them.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
You received your refund from Centsles. Presumably, he received the insurance money from the USPS. All debts have been satisfied with one exception; the USPS. The USPS either owns the coin or you must return the money to them; anything less than that is stealing, plain and simple. You can't rationalize the situation simply by stating the inconvenience foisted upon you justifies keeping the coin. Donating the money or coin to a charity is a noble thing, but it is still stealing and I seriously doubt that any respectable charity would accept ill gotten gains.
I can't believe that all these "good folks" on the forum who would BBQ a dealer or ANYONE for scamming someone would suggest otherwise. Sometimes the double-standard displayed by some is amazing.
True, if Centless and you were paid as probably is the fact. You paid for insurance even if Centless didn't claim it it's his fault for not. The USPS owns the coin. I would contact them and see what they say. If they tell you to keep it after all it's 35.00 and 16 months. Then donate it to charity would be the best for all involved.
<< <i>Presumably, he received the insurance money from the USPS. All debts have been satisfied with one exception; the USPS. >>
You don't know this for certain and neither does anyone else. As others have also asked, what if he self-insures?
If the OP is going to do anything about this, he first needs to communicate with centsles and ask how he insures (USPS, 3rd-party insurance company, or self-insured). If either of the first two, then yes, he probably was compensated, and the coin either belongs to the USPS *or* the 3rd-party insurance company. If he self-insures, that means he took the loss out-of-pocket and rightfully deserves the coin back.
Don't just assume that the USPS owns the coin. Too many variables.
Give it to the Salvation Army and let them figure out what to do with it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I am a lurker. I don't know squat about coins. What I do know is this: You were reimbursed for the coin (which you eventually recieved). You are not the legal owner of the coin. You MUST make right on this. Either the coin or the money needs to go back to Centsles. For those of you that believe he is entitled to both...SHAME on you...I really can't believe this is being debated (maybe thats why I lurk and not post). If it was a $3,500 reimburstment, would it make a difference to those who thinks he is entitled to both?
Hey Coinpictures, this is from Gamer's first post:
<< <i>Since the coin was shipped insured, he told me he would file a claim with the US Post Office and send me my money back. >>
You said:
<< <i>You don't know this for certain and neither does anyone else. As others have also asked, what if he self-insures? >>
I don't think I've assumed anything as Gamer has already stated that Centsles shipped it USPS insured. If he did not, why would he say he would file a claim with the USPS?
<< <i>True, if Centless and you were paid as probably is the fact. You paid for insurance even if Centless didn't claim it it's his fault for not. The USPS owns the coin. I would contact them and see what they say. If they tell you to keep it after all it's 35.00 and 16 months. Then donate it to charity would be the best for all involved. >>
No, the ball is in Centsles' court ..... after the coin or the money is returned to him. The buyer is uninvolved directly with the USPS claim if there was any. The buyer handles his ethical dilemma simply by contacting the seller and following through with whichever return (or none, should Centles go that way) is agreeable. The seller then should resolve the issue with the USPS if a claim was made and paid and/or reconcile his books and taxes.
The coin belongs to the post office, they paid the claim and have sole rights to the coin. The value of it--35.00 or 3500.00 doesn't matter. Just like when a car gets totaled and the insurance company pays for it, the hulk belongs to them. You could offer to buy it for 5.00 though I would imagine, but it's up to the government if they want to sell it. It is a post office "salvage effect" coin-----------BigE
I would just forget the whole thing and move along. There must be other things on your to do list that have a greater priority. Letting everyone know that the dealer did not screw you is enough.
<< <i>I am a lurker. I don't know squat about coins. What I do know is this: You were reimbursed for the coin (which you eventually recieved). You are not the legal owner of the coin. You MUST make right on this. Either the coin or the money needs to go back to Centsles. For those of you that believe he is entitled to both...SHAME on you...I really can't believe this is being debated (maybe thats why I lurk and not post). If it was a $3,500 reimburstment, would it make a difference to those who thinks he is entitled to both?
Back to lurking (and digging lost coins) >>
Well..........while I have a lot of time on my hands..............I did some homework with the PO and here's what I have found so far;
What happens if the article is delivered after the claim is paid? If a lost unnumbered insured article is recovered after payment of a claim, you may accept the article and reimburse the Postal Service™ for the full amount you were paid if the article is undamaged. If the article is damaged or has depreciated, or if the contents are not intact, the St. Louis Accounting Service Center will inform you of the amount you must reimburse the Postal Service.
In one line they say, "you may", in the next they say "you must"...........
I would just wait until they send you a bill.................
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
And exactly how would this claim be tracked since the buyer did not file the claim??
To me, centsles purchased the policy and filed the claim and presumably has the claim number or insured number and should follow up with the PO, Not gamer1958. The coin or the money belongs to the PO but the real question is who should follow up on the recovered property.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>If that happened to me, I would take the COIN back to the P.O. and tell them I believe an insurance settlement has already been made and offer to give them the coin to settle it up. I would not give them any money, nor would I keep the coin. >>
This is what I was thinking and what I consider the best solution/reply!
Comments
My guess is that if either you or centsles tried to reimburse the post office, they wouldn't have the form for it, and it would throw them into such confusion that someone might get another refund. Actually, it might be fun to try.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I have been chastised by several board members - rightly so. I will be more careful in the future.
I know that Gamer58 is just trying to do the right thing in an unusual situation. I should not have piled on.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>Give the money you were refunded to Mark Feld and have him mediate with centsles and USPS to make sure someone takes some of their money back.
My guess is that if either you or centsles tried to reimburse the post office, they wouldn't have the form for it, and it would throw them into such confusion that someone might get another refund. Actually, it might be fun to try. >>
Such ado over a $35 coin.
Contact centsles, telling him what came to pass and see what he thinks. He might just say, "Keep the coin." If he wants the refund back or the coin back, that's his call. The ethics issue with the post office is his at that point, and that is presuming he bought the insurance and filed the claim. The buyer was not involved with the post office directly and really wouldn't be in a position to remedy anything, if there is something to remedy with them.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
<< <i>I had to exonerate a guy on another message board a while back. Only thing, I didn't buy insurance so the seller told me too bad so sad. A year later the coin arrived, postmarked from a year earlier. I was finally able to stop thinking that the seller had ripped me off. >>
Geez. This is ridiculous. Makes one wonder if the Feds aren't targetting coin collectors for unAmerican activities and are just backlogged going through their intercepted mail.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
Geez. This is ridiculous. Makes one wonder if the Feds aren't targetting coin collectors for unAmerican activities and are just backlogged going through their intercepted mail. >>>
It was explained to me that sometimes letters accidently get left in the mail tubs when they are emptied and the empties are stacked over in the corner until they are need again, at which time the "lost" letter is placed back into the system again when the tub is reused.
What blows my mind is when I get letters with footprints and tiretracks on them.
I can't believe that all these "good folks" on the forum who would BBQ a dealer or ANYONE for scamming someone would suggest otherwise. Sometimes the double-standard displayed by some is amazing.
Cheers,
Bob
The USPS owns the coin.
I would contact them and see what they say. If they tell you to keep it
after all it's 35.00 and 16 months. Then donate it to charity would be the best for all involved.
<< <i>Presumably, he received the insurance money from the USPS. All debts have been satisfied with one exception; the USPS. >>
You don't know this for certain and neither does anyone else. As others have also asked, what if he self-insures?
If the OP is going to do anything about this, he first needs to communicate with centsles and ask how he insures (USPS, 3rd-party insurance company, or self-insured). If either of the first two, then yes, he probably was compensated, and the coin either belongs to the USPS *or* the 3rd-party insurance company. If he self-insures, that means he took the loss out-of-pocket and rightfully deserves the coin back.
Don't just assume that the USPS owns the coin. Too many variables.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Back to lurking (and digging lost coins)
<< <i>Since the coin was shipped insured, he told me he would file a claim with the US Post Office and send me my money back. >>
You said:
<< <i>You don't know this for certain and neither does anyone else. As others have also asked, what if he self-insures? >>
I don't think I've assumed anything as Gamer has already stated that Centsles shipped it USPS insured. If he did not, why would he say he would file a claim with the USPS?
<< <i>True, if Centless and you were paid as probably is the fact. You paid for insurance even if Centless didn't claim it it's his fault for not.
The USPS owns the coin.
I would contact them and see what they say. If they tell you to keep it
after all it's 35.00 and 16 months. Then donate it to charity would be the best for all involved. >>
No, the ball is in Centsles' court ..... after the coin or the money is returned to him. The buyer is uninvolved directly with the USPS claim if there was any. The buyer handles his ethical dilemma simply by contacting the seller and following through with whichever return (or none, should Centles go that way) is agreeable. The seller then should resolve the issue with the USPS if a claim was made and paid and/or reconcile his books and taxes.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>I am a lurker. I don't know squat about coins. What I do know is this: You were reimbursed for the coin (which you eventually recieved). You are not the legal owner of the coin. You MUST make right on this. Either the coin or the money needs to go back to Centsles. For those of you that believe he is entitled to both...SHAME on you...I really can't believe this is being debated (maybe thats why I lurk and not post). If it was a $3,500 reimburstment, would it make a difference to those who thinks he is entitled to both?
Back to lurking (and digging lost coins) >>
Well..........while I have a lot of time on my hands......
What happens if the article is delivered after the claim is paid?
If a lost unnumbered insured article is recovered after payment of a claim, you may accept the article and reimburse the Postal Service™ for the full amount you were paid if the article is undamaged. If the article is damaged or has depreciated, or if the contents are not intact, the St. Louis Accounting Service Center will inform you of the amount you must reimburse the Postal Service.
In one line they say, "you may", in the next they say "you must"...........
I would just wait until they send you a bill.................
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
To me, centsles purchased the policy and filed the claim and presumably has the claim number or insured number and should follow up with the PO, Not gamer1958. The coin or the money belongs to the PO but the real question is who should follow up on the recovered property.
The name is LEE!
Donate the coin to a YN and donate the money to your favorite charity.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
Question from centsles
centsles( 27954)
Positive feedback: 99.7%
Member since: Mar-01-99
Location: FL, United States
Registered on: www.ebay.com
Thanks for being honest. Keep the coin and bid on something else.
Kathy
Centsles
<< <i>If that happened to me, I would take the COIN back to the P.O. and tell them I believe an insurance settlement has already been made and offer to give them the coin to settle it up. I would not give them any money, nor would I keep the coin. >>
This is what I was thinking and what I consider the best solution/reply!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Response from Centsles.
Question from centsles
centsles( 27954)
Positive feedback: 99.7%
Member since: Mar-01-99
Location: FL, United States
Registered on: www.ebay.com
Thanks for being honest. Keep the coin and bid on something else.
Kathy
Centsles >>
I knew there was a reason i read through this entire thread.......