8 Reales Question (PICTURES ADDED) - Opinions Welcomed

lkrarecoins

Can anyone tell me a good online source for determining different types, varieties, history, & values of these coins?

Thanks in advance...
Len

TwoKopeiki

Online - no. But I can recommend the best books on the series.

lkrarecoins

That would be great if you can supply some resources...Out of curiousity how many types exist?

Ricke

are you speaking of pre-independance or post?

TwoKopeiki

Cobs, pillars, portraits, cap and rays, not counting War for Independence or Iturbide issues. Numerous mintmarks and varieties.

References:

Gilboy's "Columnarios" for the Pillars.
Gabriel Calbeto De Grau's "Compendium de las piezas de Ocho Reales" for Portraits.
Hubbard and O'Harrow's "Hooknecks" - covers all die varieties of the Hookneck (Profile Eagle) Mexican 1823-1825.
Dunigan and Parker's "Resplandores" covers every major variety of Cap and Ray 8R from Mexico 1823-1897

I am working on owning all of those books, myself. Currently only have Compendium and Hooknecks.

lkrarecoins

I would say pre-independence based on its year, although I know nothing about these....i have the coin at home and I believe it is an 1807 Carolus IIII

Any information on this one? I'm thinking I should just post it here to make things easier. I can try to do it tomorrow.

Thx for all the helpful info everyone

TwoKopeiki

It's a portrait type. Price depends on the mint-mark and condition. Picture would help Carolus IIII set would be a nice introduction to Colonials. A year set, encompassing 1788 - 1808 is easy to put together - there are a lot of them available, especially Mexico City mint.

GDJMSP

<< <i>Can anyone tell me a good online source for determining different types, varieties, history, & values of these coins?

Thanks in advance...
Len >>



Here's a bit to get you started.

Spanish Colonial 8 Reales


Spanish Colonial Coins


Spanish Silver


Macuquina ( cobs )


Columnarios


Other books not yet mentioned -

The Coinage of the First Mint of the Americas at Mexico City by Robert I. Nesmith

Numismatic History of Mexico by Alberto Pradeau

Cobs, Pieces of Eight and Treasure Coins by Sewall Menzel

Pillars & Portraits by Robert P. Harris

Eight Reales and Pesos of the New World by Carlos A. Elizondo


You can also look for any books by Dan Sedwick and anything written Rick Ponterio.

You study all of that, and the books previously mentioned - and you'll know more than all but a handful

lkrarecoins

Thanks for all the great resources...I will try to get a scan out here soon

lkrarecoins

Ok....here's a picture of both front and back....Based on your helpful info, it appears that this coin was struck in MEXICO?

Any opinions as far as grade and approx. value?

Thanks again

Cladiator

Cool reverse die crack from rim to crown at right. It looks like it was severe enough to disturb the plane cause several dentils to not strike up.

Ricke

I hate to throw up a red flag, but I would weigh that one just to be safe.

There appears to be quite a bit of activity in the shield, and some of the denticles appear a little weird. It may be due to the planchet flaw (which is also a bit troubling). What troubles me the most is the odd field around the ET in the legend. Sorry to say, but it sort of appears like caste bubbling.

It might be nothing - it appears to have some damage in the shield area, so it may just be connected with that.

lkrarecoins

What should an authentic Reales weigh?

coinguy89

TwoKopeiki is so right. The information on the Reales type coins is going to be really in a bunch of old and expensive books. I haven't food much on the net for information. I can say that comparing final bid prices on eBay is a great way to get an idea of what to be spending of such a piece. I've just started collecting Spanish Reales and world colonial coins. It's great to see all of these neat threads with great coins being posted. I'm going to go hunting for another to add to my collection in a little while hear. Like stated earlier TwoKopeiki seems to know his stuff on Reales pieces, ask him. I'm about to send him some PM's soon.

billboat

Try this one

http://www.mexicancoinmagic.com/index.htm

Also "2007 North American Coins and Prices" has a nice section of Mexican coinage---Colonial to present.

TwoKopeiki

I agree with Ricke - those dentils are a dead gievaway. Look above ".8R.T." on the reverse - you see gaps and uneven length of the dentils. To top it off - that "die break" looks like a "mold break" judging from the gems on the crown.

What is the weight? Also, is it possible to post an edge shot?

lkrarecoins

Well, I am glad that I didnt pay a lot of money for this one....I will work to get edge shots and post them...Thx all

GDJMSP

<< <i>What should an authentic Reales weigh? >>



Maximum permissable weight - 27.2638 grams

Minimum permissable weight - 26.8646 grams

That's for 8 reales struck from 1728 to 1825 - at any mint.

lkrarecoins

well, I weighed this reales last night with my brand new digiweigh scale.....it weighs 26.12 Grams, which is probably not good

Oh well, so the next question is: Is this a comtemporary counterfeit?

danglen

<< <i> Oh well, so the next question is: Is this a comtemporary counterfeit? >>



A lot of counterfeits came out of Mexico City during the 70s and 80s, some of them good enough to fool even the experts.

coinkat

Does the spread in the weight change for 8 reales minted after 1825?

I understand the weight for those minted from 1728-1825 has a spread from approximately 26.8646-27.2638.

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>well, I weighed this reales last night with my brand new digiweigh scale.....it weighs 26.12 Grams, which is probably not good

Oh well, so the next question is: Is this a comtemporary counterfeit? >>



It appears to be a transfer die mold, using a real coin. Doesn't look contemporary to me, but I don't own Riddell's book on counterfeits to make sure.

TwoKopeiki

<< <i>Does the spread in the weight change for 8 reales minted after 1825?

I understand the weight for those minted from 1728-1825 has a spread from approximately 26.8646-27.2638. >>



Information on post-1825 8 Reales can be found in "Resplandores". IstilllikeZARcoins might be able to give some actual numbers...

lkrarecoins

Thx TwoKopeiki....I brought this 8 Reales to the Parsippany NJ show on Sunday to get some hands on opinions.

Remarkably, one dealer thought it was authentic and the other said it was a cast counterfeit (albeit a very good one).

I'm going with your diagnosis, a cast counterfeit

Luckily, I didnt pay much for it...