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First Strike and Last Strike
tjkillian
Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
When a die is brand new will its coins be proof-like with minimal luster? I have some indian cents that are really hammered, flawless, but virtually no luster. I've had others where the strike is so mushy, it was hard to look at, but the luster was all there. Certain coins such as 1879-1889 Seated Quarters and Half dollars seem to be only proof-like as they made so few the die did not wear very much. I collect primarily 19th century coins.
Basically: Do first strikes produce less luster than last strikes?
Basically: Do first strikes produce less luster than last strikes?
Tom
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First Strike (TM)
Beginning in 2004, PCGS began designating coins delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as "First Strike". For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coins delivered between January 1 and January 31 qualify for the First Strike (TM) designation.
That being said, I too collect primarily 19th century coins and have some "hammered strikes" that have luster and some that don't. Same is true for some of the "weak strikes" insofar as luster is concerned.
<< <i>When a die is brand new will its coins be proof-like with minimal luster? I have some indian cents that are really hammered, flawless, but virtually no luster. I've had others where the strike is so mushy, it was hard to look at, but the luster was all there. >>
Yep, this basically covers it. The dies need to be broken in a bit to produce the flow lines that appear as luster to the eye.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
It really depends on the era, the type of coin and the mint striking the coin (a lot of nuances to consider). But, in general, a brand new die that has been lapped will produce coins that are prooflike. It has been estimated that only the first 50 to 100 coins will have the P/L surfaces. Then the P/L fields go away and subsequent coins will tend to be lustrous.
Years ago I sold a Proof 1870 cent to collector who was working on a set of Mint State Indians. The coin cost him less than a Mint State piece would have, but the surfaces were dull and the piece fit in perfectly with his set.
Sometimes simple usage will polish die. The most common example of this are the cameo Proof coins from the 1950s and '60s. The first strikes from a new set of dies had cameo features, but as more Proof coins were struck, the frosted parts were polished off by the striking process. After perhaps 20 or 30 stikes, the entire surface of the Proof coin was billiant.
<< <i>It really depends on the era, the type of coin and the mint striking the coin (a lot of nuances to consider). But, in general, a brand new die that has been lapped will produce coins that are prooflike. It has been estimated that only the first 50 to 100 coins will have the P/L surfaces. Then the P/L fields go away and subsequent coins will tend to be lustrous. >>
I think you should say that the luster changes, not develops. A coin struck from two new dies that were polished to near-mirror surfaces will exhibit proof-like luster. Then, as the dies continues to strike coins, the slight outward expansion of each planchet during the strike will erode tiny radial flow lines into the surfaces of the dies. During this process the proof-like luster fades and eventually disappears, while what is called "cartwheel luster" develops.
Cartwheel luster is formed by light reflecting off of the tiny raised ridges, also called flow lines, left on the coins by these tiny radial erosion lines, usually along the axis perpendicular to your light source. If you rotate the coin under the light source, this axis will appear to spin like the optical effect you sometimes see on the stagecoach wagon wheels in old westerns, hence the name "cartwheel effect."
Overdipping a coin eats away at the tiny raised lines on the coin, dulling the cartwheel luster.
Tom DeLorey
true (especially some of the early S mints and O mints), but with other coins and
in metals other than silver there are a lot more considerations.
There are a few characteristics that cause PL coins and all of them aren't dependent
on how fresh the dies are. Die preparation, planchet condition and strike conditions
all will impact the degree to which a new die can strike PL's.
<< <i>Certainly all new dies don't start out striking PL's. With Morgans it's a little more
true (especially some of the early S mints and O mints), but with other coins and
in metals other than silver there are a lot more considerations.
There are a few characteristics that cause PL coins and all of them aren't dependent
on how fresh the dies are. Die preparation, planchet condition and strike conditions
all will impact the degree to which a new die can strike PL's. >>
The proof-like quality of a coin is almost entirely the result of the polish of the dies. While I was at ANACS we saw an 1881-S dollar that was struck about 50% off center. The unstruck parts of the planchet were totally frost white grainy from when the planchet was pickled in a mild acid prior to strike. The struck areas of the field were as nice as you would expect an 1881-S dollar to look.
TD
rarely get near a business strike press but it does happen. There are also some partially pol-
ished planchets which get struck as well.
Die basining and polish can be the quickest way to get to PL and can occur even with a worn die.
<< <i>Some PL's are mostly the result of an excellent strike on a polished planchet. Such planchets
rarely get near a business strike press but it does happen. There are also some partially pol-
ished planchets which get struck as well.
Die basining and polish can be the quickest way to get to PL and can occur even with a worn die. >>
A worn die can be repolished, or rebasined,l and made proof-like again, but a normal worn die cannot create a proof-like strike even on a polished planchet.
TD