Since when is "In God We Trust" on our coinage not a coin related subject ???

ss350camaro

ziggy29

When it becomes more about religion and politics than coins, I'm guessing.

Discussing IGWT on coins is a legitimate numismatic topic, if the predictable arguing and flame fest about religion and politics can be avoided. Usually, unfortunately, it can't.

robertpr

This thread is doomed to poofdom.

ziggy29

<< <i>This thread is doomed to poofdom. >>

Are you a poofter?

pharmer

Good question. CoinJP's poll was on topic yet was the first thread related to the issue pulled. And it showed that keeping the motto was greatly preferred, contrary to fas trudy's assertion.

billboat

It depends on what you have to say about it. It's been there since since 1866 on most coins--the question of whether or not it belongs there is for each to decide--not sure why it should be a forum topic. Why not question E Pluribus Unum or Liberty? My understanding is that it is up to Congress--which makes it political and hence not a valid forum topic. JMHO

ss350camaro

I did manage to read thru some of the IGWT threads and found most of the info and discussion very informative.

People on both sides of the issue discussing their opinions, giving valuable history information, ...etc...


then *poof*, all that gone ???

coinmickey

Because Rush said so??

Cladiator

Everyone here should know by now that angering the Gods is dangerous.

Kimchee

I'm greatly offended by "E. Pluribus Unum," and you sir, have caused me great mental injury and emotional distess for having mentioned it. You will soon be hearing from my phalanz of lawyers.

123cents

I think it was ridiculous pulling those threads. They were definitely coin related. In turn someone like labrams can post 270 times looking for a man and never talk about anything coin related. I guess it is the sign of the times. This world has become to politically correct for me.

Baley

"Liberty"

good or bad?

LastExitInNY

Why would a IGWT thread be pulled?

Cladiator

<< <i>"Liberty"

good or bad? >>






Liberty = good
IGWT = good
EPU = good
Lady Liberty = good

Dead Presidents = bad

flaminio

<< <i>Why would a IGWT thread be pulled? >>

The last two were.

I'm against IGWT on coins. It's anti-American and anti-Christian. I agree with Teddy Roosevelt about the Deity and coinage.

WorldTypeSet

Since when is "In God We Trust" on our coinage not a coin related subject ???

Since 14 October 2004.

LastExitInNY

So? I'm anti-athiest and its my God given right to say so

flaminio

<< <i>So? I'm anti-athiest and its my God given right to say so >>

That's OK. Atheists still love you.

cwazzy

<< <i>

<< <i>Why would a IGWT thread be pulled? >>

The last two were.

I'm against IGWT on coins. It's anti-American and anti-Christian. I agree with Teddy Roosevelt about the Deity and coinage. >>



How is IGWT anti-American and anti-Christian?

JRocco

It does say IN GOD WE TRUST right there----I can see it right thru that incredible toning on this CAM beauty--- so isn't it coin related ????

Baley

On this dime, we can clearly see that it's "In Cod We Trust"

flaminio

<< <i>How is IGWT anti-American and anti-Christian? >>

Jesus said "Bring me a denarius and let me look at it." They brought the coin, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then Jesus said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." (Mark 12:15-17)

Jesus understood the importance of keeping Church and State separate. This separation is further supported in the US Constitution, as well as the following writings of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, who are arguably the primary architects of this grand experiment we call the United States of America.

Theodore Roosevelt explained the issue thusly: My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege. I agree with TR in this regard.

goose3

so, those of you that have a "problem" with IGWT being on our coinage....

Am I to assume you don't collect any coinage with this phrase on it or it is ok to collect and/or spend?

I would think if you feel that strong about it, you'd do neither.

JRocco

<< <i>so, those of you that have a "problem" with IGWT being on our coinage....

Am I to assume you don't collect any coinage with this phrase on it or it is ok to collect and/or spend?

I would think if you feel that strong about it, you'd do neither. >>





Just goes to prove Goose.......Talk is cheap...

anablep

IGWT has no place on money.

flaminio

<< <i>so, those of you that have a "problem" with IGWT being on our coinage....

Am I to assume you don't collect any coinage with this phrase on it or it is ok to collect and/or spend? >>

"When in Rome..." There's a lot about this country I don't like. But there's way more about it that I do. I ain't leaving anytime soon.

ksteelheader

Were some panties knotted here today??

flaminio

<< <i>so, those of you that have a "problem" with IGWT being on our coinage....

Am I to assume you don't collect any coinage with this phrase on it or it is ok to collect and/or spend?

I would think if you feel that strong about it, you'd do neither. >>

I assume that those who feel that IGWT belongs on our coinage purposely do not collect any coins struck before 1864.

If you feel that strongly about it, you'd shun such godless entities.

quattrocoins

<< <i>so, those of you that have a "problem" with IGWT being on our coinage....

Am I to assume you don't collect any coinage with this phrase on it or it is ok to collect and/or spend?

I would think if you feel that strong about it, you'd do neither. >>





It's all fiat crap that our government forces us to use.
They know that we can't put our trust in the value of base metals!

JRocco

<< <i>

<< <i>so, those of you that have a "problem" with IGWT being on our coinage....

Am I to assume you don't collect any coinage with this phrase on it or it is ok to collect and/or spend?

I would think if you feel that strong about it, you'd do neither. >>

I assume that those who feel that IGWT belongs on our coinage purposely do not collect any coins struck before 1864.

If you feel that strongly about it, you'd shun such godless entities. >>



Does this mean I have to throw away my rock collection too ???

SportsModerator2

If you can keep this thread about the numismatics of the issure rather than a flame over religion it can stay. If it goes the way the other threads did then it will go poof.

Carol

JRocco

Hi Carol,
Quick question... Can a request be made to make a thread go poof if it was coin related and not a flame fest in any way? In other words can someone get a post they might not look good in erased by request? And if so...do we all have that ability?

flaminio

<< <i>Does this mean I have to throw away my rock collection too ??? >>

If the US Government were to compel me to use rocks with IGWT engraved in them, I would be against that as well.

Gemineye

We place a value of regard of something or someone somewhere.If we didn't ..we might as well leave off the value of the coin and call it whatever you want .What ever suits you..

billboat

<< <i>If you can keep this thread about the numismatics of the issure rather than a flame over religion it can stay. If it goes the way the other threads did then it will go poof.

Carol >>



I think it should go poof. Doesn't seem to have any relevance to numismatics IMO.

keets

everyone needs to understand something about on topic and off topic threads, a guiding principal, so-to-speak......................it isn't necessarily what the topic is, it's more who the OP is which dictates the deletion by our beloved moderators.

if you fail to realize that participation here has certain commonalities with politics and business as usual you're doomed to confusion. in a nutshell, if certain forum members had started the deleted threads there's a fair chance that they'd still be running.

ss350camaro

<< <i>

<< <i>If you can keep this thread about the numismatics of the issure rather than a flame over religion it can stay. If it goes the way the other threads did then it will go poof.

Carol >>



I think it should go poof. Doesn't seem to have any relevance to numismatics IMO. >>




You're kidding, right ?

ksteelheader

<< <i>everyone needs to understand something about on topic and off topic threads, a guiding principal, so-to-speak......................it isn't necessarily what the topic is, it's more who the OP is which dictates the deletion by our beloved moderators.

if you fail to realize that participation here has certain commonalities with politics and business as usual you're doomed to confusion. in a nutshell, if certain forum members had started the deleted threads there's a fair chance that they'd still be running. >>



Well said Al.

JRocco

For the members that feel IGWT should not be on our coinage...

It is on our coinage---that being said---Does it bother you because it offends you or is more of a principle issue?

bidask

Abraham Lincoln ( a man of prayer) gave his seal of approval to IGWT since it was under his administration it first appeared. I think that is hugely historical since it was the greatest test of our government and perhaps why we still have a government today. If it is good enough for Lincoln it is good enough for me! Hooray for Lincoln.

Cladiator

Life is not fair and anyone that told you otherwise lied. You're not going to get what you want every time and there is nothing you can do about it. Get used to it and get over it.

flaminio

<< <i>Does it bother you because it offends you or is more of a principle issue? >>

Entirely on principle. Stuff offends me every day. I don't get all uppity about it -- that's part of life.

I honestly feel that IGWT is contrary to the desires of the Founders of this nation, and indeed contrary to Christian doctrine.

quattrocoins

<< <i>

<< <i>Does it bother you because it offends you or is more of a principle issue? >>

Entirely on principle. Stuff offends me every day. I don't get all uppity about it -- that's part of life.

I honestly feel that IGWT is contrary to the desires of the Founders of this nation, and indeed contrary to Christian doctrine. >>





Wasn't this nation and it's constitution founded on principles?

billboat

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>If you can keep this thread about the numismatics of the issure rather than a flame over religion it can stay. If it goes the way the other threads did then it will go poof.

Carol >>



I think it should go poof. Doesn't seem to have any relevance to numismatics IMO. >>




You're kidding, right ?

>>



No. I'm not. I personally don't think it belongs on our coinage but, that said, the US Congress makes the determination about mottos, and other legends on our coinage, hence a political decision. We collect the coinage minted under its authorization. If we don't like the mottos placed on our coinage we have an avenue to change it--via the political process--not here. We can rant all day but so what--why not complain about the Jefferson nickel lock enjoyed by Virginia. Don't think that will stop the Jefferson collectors from looking for full steps, etc.

pharmer

<< <i>everyone needs to understand something about on topic and off topic threads, a guiding principal, so-to-speak......................it isn't necessarily what the topic is, it's more who the OP is which dictates the deletion by our beloved moderators.

if you fail to realize that participation here has certain commonalities with politics and business as usual you're doomed to confusion. in a nutshell, if certain forum members had started the deleted threads there's a fair chance that they'd still be running. >>



This is why the OF was killed as well. Think about the events leading up to it, who was crying about what, who delighted in it's closing. The trail is still warm, you can figure out who and why if you think about it. Certain members got upset, and now it's gone.

quattrocoins

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>If you can keep this thread about the numismatics of the issure rather than a flame over religion it can stay. If it goes the way the other threads did then it will go poof.

Carol >>



I think it should go poof. Doesn't seem to have any relevance to numismatics IMO. >>




You're kidding, right ?

>>



No. I'm not. I personally don't think it belongs on our coinage but, that said, the US Congress makes the determination about mottos, and other legends on our coinage, hence a political decision. We collect the coinage minted under its authorization. If we don't like the mottos placed on our coinage we have an avenue to change it--via the political process--not here. We can rant all day but so what--why not complain about the Jefferson nickel lock enjoyed by Virginia. Don't think that will stop the Jefferson collectors from looking for full steps, etc. >>



You used the word "coinage" 4 times in your reply.
That should give you a good clue!

billboat

Yep--I used "coinage" four times---suppose I had said "dime" or "cent"--still the same issue--a political question--not numismatic! For the life of me I fail to see what all the fuss is about. POOF!

SportsModerator2

<< <i>Hi Carol,
Quick question... Can a request be made to make a thread go poof if it was coin related and not a flame fest in any way? In other words can someone get a post they might not look good in erased by request? And if so...do we all have that ability? >>



If you post something in a thread you want to change you can do it by using the editing function.
We won't pull the whole thread for the reason you stated above.

Bochiman

<< <i>I did manage to read thru some of the IGWT threads and found most of the info and discussion very informative.

People on both sides of the issue discussing their opinions, giving valuable history information, ...etc...


then *poof*, all that gone ???

>>



Informative doesn't mean on topic. It got WAY off topic and was an OF type discussion. Since there is no open forum due to how people used it, it shouldn't have been continued on here (I, for one, am glad it was poofed). Most people know about Frank's forum and Thiggy/CCW's forum. So there are other venues for religious discussion.

Also, the same topic pops up multiple times and always goes the same path. If people can't keep it focused on the coin, then it should go poof

Bochiman

<< <i>

<< <i>everyone needs to understand something about on topic and off topic threads, a guiding principal, so-to-speak......................it isn't necessarily what the topic is, it's more who the OP is which dictates the deletion by our beloved moderators.

if you fail to realize that participation here has certain commonalities with politics and business as usual you're doomed to confusion. in a nutshell, if certain forum members had started the deleted threads there's a fair chance that they'd still be running. >>



This is why the OF was killed as well. Think about the events leading up to it, who was crying about what, who delighted in it's closing. The trail is still warm, you can figure out who and why if you think about it. Certain members got upset, and now it's gone. >>



No pharmer, that is the short-sighted look at it. The OF people were warned MANY times, and even had a few "timeouts" during the last year or so. People kept pushing the limit and it looks like PCGS got sick and tired of having to babysit. Don't blame those that you are intending to blame (yes, I know at least one of them you want to point to) as it was ALL the posters who kept pushing and pushing and pushing.

People who would post attack after attack. Who would stalk other posters. People who would post something late on a Friday night because Carol has a life and isn't around on the weekends and would post "bad" things.

I liked the OF when it was a place to ask questions, joke around, and have fun. When people kept taking it too far, then it went bye-bye. Blame the users of the OF, not anyone else. Btw...it had really gone downhill before it got poofed....I used to frequent it, but it got so sickening bad that I stopped going for the most part...about a month before it went bye-bye, so the closing doesn't really surprise me.

Russ

Frankly, I find no compelling reason for the motto to be on our coins, but I also find no compelling reason to remove it. Those who argue that it's contrary to the founding principles of this country don't really understand those principles. The phrase "separation of church and state" appears nowhere in the Constitution and, even if it did, it simply means that there should be no state sponsored national religion such as The Church of England was.

Russ, NCNE