Have you ever bought a certified coin "Sight Unseen" ?

BrianKuszmar

Years ago when certification first came out the idea behind it was that you could trade these coins without having to physicaly see them.

In the industry many generic type coins trade sight unseen like Saints, libs,Morgans, Peace, Walkers etc..in ms62 to ms65 in large lots, albeit many come with a caveat in regards to color.

Question, what coin(s) certified have you ever traded "Sight Unseen" with no return/exchange etc..

Regards

kimon1230

I take that risk on eBay all the time I purchase from a new (to me) seller.

PerryHall

If there is a realy good pic, is it truely sight unseen? If there is a return policy, are you really buying it sight unseen?

410a

As far as I am concerned most auctions are sight unseen, unless
you are attending and view the lot first. Even the catalog photos
are deceiving.

tradedollarnut

Yes, I bought the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar sight unseen. It wasn't at auction lot viewing in Wolfeboro when I went to view the sale and I never had a chance to view the coin before I purchased it years later on the day of the Childs Collection sale.

oldcameoproofsguy

Back in the old days, we used to buy coins from dealer descriptions. Hopefully, the coins were exactly as described. Also, I would only do this with a trusted dealer who's tastes were similar to my own.

Times sure have changed and the abilities of many dealers and auctioneers to provide very nice images of the coins they are selling.

It has taken alot of the guesswork out of purchasing coins.

It has been many years since I have purchased a coin "sight unseen."

RYK

I have purchased coins from Heritage "sight-unseen". More often than not, I get hosed.

If there is a realy good pic, is it truely sight unseen? If there is a return policy, are you really buying it sight unseen?

By definition, "sight-unseen" means that you have not seen the coin in person and there is no return privilige.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Yes, I bought the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar sight unseen. It wasn't at auction lot viewing in Wolfeboro when I went to view the sale and I never had a chance to view the coin before I purchased it years later on the day of the Childs Collection sale. >>



Cojones: XL

bhartman35

I would say that, for certified coins, "sight unseen" is the norm on Ebay, unfortunately. Most sellers I've seen either take crappy pics or take a good pic of the whole slab, but don't close in on the coin enough for you to make a full judgment.

BrianKuszmar

<< <i>Yes, I bought the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar sight unseen. It wasn't at auction lot viewing in Wolfeboro when I went to view the sale and I never had a chance to view the coin before I purchased it years later on the day of the Childs Collection sale. >>



That was you? Show off...heh

TradeDollarNut, a question for my own edification, on the Eliasberg 1885 $ how important was the certs grade in your mind during the purchase? Example, if it had graded a point higher or lower or in a Anacs holder would that had made a huge factor in your perception of the dolllar value and/or the figure you paid?

Regards and Respect

LanLord

I have purchased a 1836RE half dollar (vf35) and a 1832 half dime (au55) from JJTeaparty both sight unseen.
The more I work with them, the more I trust them to send me something that I will be happy with.

edit to add, I also bought a couple large size bust dimes and a large size bust quarter from them in the same manner.

Burks

I've never bought a certified coin sight unseen without a return policy.

But I have bought several with a return policy off people on these boards. They gave good descriptions and had good reputations. I've always been more than pleased.

jnd1955

i think the reture policy is very much needed, i have recived PCGS proof coins with a big finger print on the obv. had to return it, lol
john

Coxe

In the old telephone (not internet) days of Teletrade, I bought many coins from their descriptions. (They never had images.) IMHO their cataloguer back then, when they were in NY before Greg Manning, was excellent. Rarely was disappointed surprisingly. Typically though I avoid sight-unseen transactions unless I know the seller well and the return policy is reasonable.

pharmer

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the years of buying from Teletrade truly sight unseen, just a few words in a printed brochure. Now that was sight unseen. Buying after seeing an images or images is not sight unseen.

Teletrader1950

When Teletrade first came out you were buying sight unseen, then sight unseen based on their description. I still sometimes buy sight unseen off ebay where a seller has multiple or bulk lots if the price is right. In this regard it comes down to what you think of the seller and if these are certified coins or not.

123cents

About three years back I bought 2 $5.00 Gold Eagles graded by NGC sight unseen.

Elcontador

No. If I don't see the coin, someone in whom I have confidence does. IMO, buying from an image is buying sight-unseen.

flaminio

I've bought Modern Crap™ sight unseen. Let's face it -- you've seen one white MS69 Silver Eagle, you've seen them all.

I've rolled the dice on bad eBay pictures -- sometimes you have to try to picture in your mind's eye what the coin looks like IRL, and look beyond a hideous scan or photo.

But for classic coins -- never. I need a big clear picture to pull the trigger.

mgoodm3

I bought a PCGS MS63 common date toned morgan without any picture. Kinda like a surprise to see what you get. Nothing expensive though.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>

<< <i>Yes, I bought the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar sight unseen. It wasn't at auction lot viewing in Wolfeboro when I went to view the sale and I never had a chance to view the coin before I purchased it years later on the day of the Childs Collection sale. >>



That was you? Show off...heh

TradeDollarNut, a question for my own edification, on the Eliasberg 1885 $ how important was the certs grade in your mind during the purchase? Example, if it had graded a point higher or lower or in a Anacs holder would that had made a huge factor in your perception of the dolllar value and/or the figure you paid?

Regards and Respect >>



The actual certified grade is much less important on classic rarities vs their 'rank'. One can certainly debate whether the coin is a PF66 or a PR65, but its rank as the finest 1885 seems secure.

That's why all that grade inflation on the 1804's doesn't matter so much - what really matters is how the coin stacks up against the other 1804's.

morganbarber

Many months ago I was cruising Ebay looking for a deal on a Morgan Dollar or two. I came across an auction for a common date PCGS62 and PCGS65 together. The pictures just showed a flash of reflection from both coins--you couldn't see anything but flash. I checked his 4-5 other auctions, and all pictures were the same. I then bid based on the plastic. I think I ended up doing pretty well.

lkenefic

Nothing hugely expensive... a couple of Morgan dollars in third-world slabs off of eBay...maybe $40 worth. I cracked 'em as soon as I got them. I still have the 1921 in my date set of Morgan dollars. It's probably a 63.

L

orie

When you're on the edge of civilization you have no choice. Probably 85% of my coins were purchased sight unseen. I always get return priviledges, but very seldem return one. If I'm unhappy with the coin after a couple of weeks. it goes in the cull pile to sell sight unseen.

WTCG

<< <i>Years ago when certification first came out the idea behind it was that you could trade these coins without having to physicaly see them.

In the industry many generic type coins trade sight unseen like Saints, libs,Morgans, Peace, Walkers etc..in ms62 to ms65 in large lots, albeit many come with a caveat in regards to color.

Question, what coin(s) certified have you ever traded "Sight Unseen" with no return/exchange etc..

Regards >>



Buying coins sight unseen is sometimes a necessity for a dealer. I buy coins sight unseen all the time, and for most denominations there is a sight unseen price than can be offered.

bhartman35

<< <i>When you're on the edge of civilization you have no choice. Probably 85% of my coins were purchased sight unseen. I always get return priviledges, but very seldem return one. If I'm unhappy with the coin after a couple of weeks. it goes in the cull pile to sell sight unseen. >>



I'm not at the edge of civilization, but I'm in a similar situation. I can't drive, so I'm very limited as to when/where I can see a coin in hand. Ebay's been a godsend for me, in that I can buy coins online and, if they're slabbed by a decent company, be relatively certain that the grade is somewhere close to what it says on the slab. Most Ebay pictures suck, and you're basically buying blind if you rely on them.

Rodius

I have bought many PCGS coins both on Ebay and here on the forums. Only once did I have a less than desirable experience. I feel that the PCGS graded coins do carry an air of confidence that the coins are graded correctly and will be of good quality and consistancy. I agree in the old days you could buy a coin sight unseen from a reputable dealer. Today there are so many dealers out there one must be savvy about where they buy their coins. That why these forums are so important, they provide the needed information about dealers and sellers. We are so varied and vast, I do not think anyone can sneek under the radar.

BrianKuszmar

<< <i>

The actual certified grade is much less important on classic rarities vs their 'rank'. One can certainly debate whether the coin is a PF66 or a PR65, but its rank as the finest 1885 seems secure.

That's why all that grade inflation on the 1804's doesn't matter so much - what really matters is how the coin stacks up against the other 1804's. >>



Astute and courteous rply. Thank you

Conder101

Well after reading the responses here apparently almost no one here has ever bought a coin sight unseen.

(All the comments about Teletrade, as far as I know NONE of those purchases were sight unseen. You bought it and they sent it to you. If you didn't like it you could send it back. It cost you some to do so but you could still return it so it wasn't sight unseen.) Many have mad comments along the line that they would only buy sight unseen if they had a return priviledge. Huh? You'd only buy a coin you haven't seen in hand which has no return priviledge if it has a return priviledge.

RYK

Well after reading the responses here apparently almost no one here has ever bought a coin sight unseen.

There are a lot of misconceptions about the "sight-seen" and "sight-unseen" terminology. The terms are consistently misapplied here, and it has become almost a pet peeve for me. Anyone who has purchased a coin from a Heritage Signature auction or ANR auction without viewing the coin in person, has made a sight unseen purchase. Anyone who has purchased a coin from Russ (and many others) on ebay, no matter how fabulous the photo, has made a sight unseen purchase. Anyone who has received a call or email from a favorite coin dealer, in which the dealer verbally describes a coin and sends it to you on approval, has made a sight seen purchase (if he/she buys it).

James Garcia has a nice tutorial on the subject ATS.

Here is just a sample:

Here are examples of sight-seen purchases:

You go to a coin show, examine a coin under proper lighting and using your favored loupe, and decide to purchase it.

You pay for a coin out of a coin magazine advertisement, receive the coin several days later, and have a 10 day return policy.

You buy a coin from an eBay seller, and the seller offers a 5 day return policy.

A coin dealer you trust represents your interests at a major auction, and purchases a coin on your behalf.



Here are examples of sight-unseen purchases:

You buy a coin from an eBay seller who provides excellent images, but no return policy.

You go to a coin show and buy a bag of $10 face of junk silver sold strictly by weight.

You purchase a coin from a wholesaler who provides a return policy, subject to a 20% restocking fee.

Frankcoins

I am surprised at the number of people here who think there is such a thing as "sight unseen with a return privilege" Sight unseen specifically means that you buy a coin based ONLY on the grading company certified grade, with NO return privilege.

IGWT

I have, but only when (1) the grade is relatively unimportant to me, (2) the seller has proven to be trustworthy, and (3) the photograph shows me what I'm looking for and looks to be an honest attempt to depict the coin accurately.

BrianKuszmar

<< <i> Sight unseen specifically means that you buy a coin based ONLY on the grading company certified grade, with NO return privilege. >>



That is the correct original specific definition of sight-unseen as practiced today on bulk generic issues like common morgans,walkers,saints etc..

These coins are still commonly traded in lots on a true sight unseen basis albeit with some caveats like no dark coins, copper spots etc..

garsmith

Sight unseen, all the time!

With no return/exchange policy, never!

RYK

<< <i>Sight unseen, all the time!

With no return/exchange policy, never! >>



Well then, you are never buying sight unseen if you are never buying without a return policy.

READ TUTORIAL HERE

Conder101

<< <i>Sight unseen, all the time!

With no return/exchange policy, never! >>


So which is it? In the first line you say you do all the time, and then in the second line you say you never have.

messydesk

<< <i>Well after reading the responses here apparently almost no one here has ever bought a coin sight unseen.

(All the comments about Teletrade, as far as I know NONE of those purchases were sight unseen. You bought it and they sent it to you. If you didn't like it you could send it back. It cost you some to do so but you could still return it so it wasn't sight unseen.) Many have mad comments along the line that they would only buy sight unseen if they had a return priviledge. Huh? You'd only buy a coin you haven't seen in hand which has no return priviledge if it has a return priviledge. >>


I bought several Teletrade lots back in the old days, and they were for all practical purposes sight unseen. Since they were relatively inexpensive coins, returning any of them would have put me out far more than keeping a low-end coin. Besides, they were all in rattlers, so they had to be undergraded, right?

etexmike

Any pic can be deceiving, but I will not buy a coin unless there is an image that goes with the coin.

I've had enough surprises with coin purchases even when I had an image to judge the coin on. Not going to buy one sight unseen.

-------------

etexmike

JBatDavidLawrence

I've bought several from WTCG...Most of them are actually nice too!
Seriously, coin dealers do it all of the time, but sometimes we do have to return them...especially with spotted gold coins and ugly Morgan dollars.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>Any pic can be deceiving, but I will not buy a coin unless there is an image that goes with the coin.

I've had enough surprises with coin purchases even when I had an image to judge the coin on. Not going to buy one sight unseen.

-------------

etexmike >>



A photo (or lack of same) has nothing to do with whether or not a purchase is sight seen or unseen. The ONLY determinant is whether or not one has the opportunity to examine the coin IN HAND before an irrevocable buy is completed. Any time (even with the average ebay photo--or none at all) there is a legitimate return privilege then the purchase is sight seen since the buyer is able to see it before he decides whether or not to keep the coin. On the other hand, even with the greatest photo in the world it is a sight unseen purchase if the buyer has no ability to examine THE COIN prior to completing the purchase--ie, no examination pryor to purchase and no ability to return it after.

drwstr123

I consider most eBay stuff "sight unseen". This is one I posted before. The only way I can explain is , I don't go to Atlantic City, so my gambling is confined to coins. I bought this one on a hunch:



I liked the color??? When I got it, this is what I saw:


Here's a view of the entire coin:


Had it reholdered as this: