Perhaps these are some coins that can get a discussion going.
First, we all know that the 1824 O-113, R1 is also know as the "eagle drops the worm" variety. There is a irregularly shaped die defect above the eagle's left shoulder resembling a worm:
Here is the rest of the coin:
When the 1824 O-113a, R2 came up in Heritage's Jules Reiver auction I instantly starting licking my lips. The O-113a is MISSING from most die STATE collections even though it is only a R2 coin. I was willing to PAY TOP DOLLAR just to have this die state. (Unfortunately I had to in order to "win" the coin.)
The O-113a is the same as the O-113 except the die defect (the worm) has been removed by lapping of the die.
Heritage described the coin as the O-113a. The coin came with Jules Reiver's envelope. How could the coin be wrong?
For weeks after the return period was up, I kept staring at the coin trying to convince myself it REALLY was the O-113a. I am still not convinced. It looks like the O-113 to me. Or does it? (If you are a Heritage member, you can enlarge their photos by looking up Auction #390, January 2006, Lot 22913 in the auction archives.)
Here is the close up, followed by the rest of the coin: (Darn I wish I could take photos like JRocco, Mozin and some of you others.)
(AND OH, BY-THE-WAY, BOTH coins have a die line in the up-curl of the 2. Which means per Herrman in his AMBPR, that both coins are REALLY the O-113' [prime] and therefore should be a R6. Downey gets a "bundle" for the O-113' in his auctions. Therefore if the up-curl is on the "prime," then my O-113a is NOT an O-113a. Do you agree?)
I am not convinced that edmerlr has the LDS 1824 O-113a. The Heritage pictures appear to show the worm is still present. There are enough O-113 specimens with the die line across the upper curl of the 2 to make me believe this early die state is not anywhere near R6. It could just be that the true LDS without the worm is the rarest die state for this marriage.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
It's late here you two West Coast guys! In Sheridan's current (2007) ANA MB sale there is an example, Lot 141 1824 O-113 "Prime" XF45. He calls out "...a horizontal line connects the loop and the right side curl of the 2." A stray die line? Or, perhaps, the remnant of a mis-placed digit? The line soon disappears. Not mentioned in any of the 4 O/P's! Then in his picture there is a bold vertical line from the right side of the inside curl to the base, BUT, there is a very faint horizontal one between the curl and loop. Many additional specimans have been brought to light. He then drops the Rarity Rating to R-4.
I had not noticed Sheridan had a similar coin in his current auction, in fact, now I see lot 171 is also listed as the "prime". Like I said before, I think the true LDS without the worm present is the rarest DS.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Mozin, this may be true about LDS O-113a. In my copy of Herrman's AMBPR it shows only one sale of the "a" model. This may be the same as some of the other "Common" rated coins that are found in there. But in all actuality Rarer than originally thought!
A side note here: This reverse die (Rev. L) is loaded with graver slips! Possibly from a heavy night of drinks or a New Apprentice...
I leave for Milwaukee tomorrow early morning. I will personally view both the Sheridan Downey 1824 O-113 auction lots, but I will not be back on CU until Tuesday August 14 morning.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Mozin was to report back to us after the ANA on the O-113a's previously discussed. He has been quiet. It takes longer for some of us to get over jet-lag, I guess.
I still do not know if the coin in my 1824 O-113a "hole" is the REAL O-113a. I will figure it out sooner or later.
In the meantime - still waiting for Mozin - here are the 1824's in numerical order on these pages:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Stars 7, 8, and 13 all about 1/2 mm from cap and curl. Date has large figures.
Reverse: A dot shows in the field below the left end of the scroll and eagle’s left wing. “A” and “M” touch at base. Tiny die chip shows at right end of scroll. “N” in “UNITED” is higher than “I”. Tiny dot shows just above bottom loop of “C” in “50 C”, at its center. Left sides of “I” and ”T” are in line.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Edgar, thank you for your informative post on my 1824. I can't believe it's been almost a year, and I don't recall seeing your response before.
Joe
<< <i>Jobiwan115,
This is one of the varieties that I used in a study many years ago to prove that the center dot was placed on the shield BEFORE the shield was engraved. (See page 245 and 246 of Bust Half Fever). Note how the engraver stopped short of the dot, with the horizontal shield line, because he had not yet punched in the lettering and still needed to place the compass in the incuse dot for the layout line on the incomplete working die. You have a neat piece!
Edgar >>
Exclusively collecting Capped Bust Halves in VF to AU, especially rarity 3 and up. Joe G. Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
I missed Edgar's contribution too. Here's two more from my collection. An 1824/various, and the prime die state 1824/1 discussed above by Ed. Also, I believe, Ed, that this is the coin sold in the Sheridan auction in '95. I bought it last year at the Milwaukee ANA through Sheridan Downey's auction. Thank you again Slumlord!!!
I took edge photos of the 1824/1 before holdering it
This O.103 arrived yesterday. It is the very difficult 1824 over various dates in PCGS AU58. I've been looking a long time for the right upgrade and I finally found it.
This O.115 came via a forum member who was kind enough to sell it to me after I made an offer he couldn't refuse. PCGS AU58.
An ebay purchase that turned out to be a pleasant surprise. I think this O.116 R3 is very eye appealing. Love the strike too. PCGS AU55.
The 1824/1 O.101a, PCGS XF45.
And finally, the 1824/4 O.109, I bought at FUN. PCGS AU55
Comments
First, we all know that the 1824 O-113, R1 is also know as the "eagle drops the worm" variety. There is a irregularly shaped die defect above the eagle's left shoulder resembling a worm:
Here is the rest of the coin:
When the 1824 O-113a, R2 came up in Heritage's Jules Reiver auction I instantly starting licking my lips. The O-113a is MISSING from most die STATE collections even though it is only a R2 coin. I was willing to PAY TOP DOLLAR just to have this die state. (Unfortunately I had to in order to "win" the coin.)
The O-113a is the same as the O-113 except the die defect (the worm) has been removed by lapping of the die.
Heritage described the coin as the O-113a. The coin came with Jules Reiver's envelope. How could the coin be wrong?
For weeks after the return period was up, I kept staring at the coin trying to convince myself it REALLY was the O-113a. I am still not convinced. It looks like the O-113 to me. Or does it? (If you are a Heritage member, you can enlarge their photos by looking up Auction #390, January 2006, Lot 22913 in the auction archives.)
Here is the close up, followed by the rest of the coin: (Darn I wish I could take photos like JRocco, Mozin and some of you others.)
(AND OH, BY-THE-WAY, BOTH coins have a die line in the up-curl of the 2. Which means per Herrman in his AMBPR, that both coins are REALLY the O-113' [prime] and therefore should be a R6. Downey gets a "bundle" for the O-113' in his auctions. Therefore if the up-curl is on the "prime," then my O-113a is NOT an O-113a. Do you agree?)
In Sheridan's current (2007) ANA MB sale there is an example,
Lot 141 1824 O-113 "Prime" XF45.
He calls out "...a horizontal line connects the loop and the right side curl of the 2."
A stray die line?
Or, perhaps, the remnant of a mis-placed digit?
The line soon disappears.
Not mentioned in any of the 4 O/P's!
Then in his picture there is a bold vertical line from the right side of the inside curl to the base, BUT,
there is a very faint horizontal one between the curl and loop.
Many additional specimans have been brought to light.
He then drops the Rarity Rating to R-4.
Image from Downey MB 33 Lot 141 date close.
Lot 171 1824 O-113 "Prime" date close.
Yawn, Mike
In my copy of Herrman's AMBPR it shows only one sale of the "a" model.
This may be the same as some of the other "Common" rated coins that are found in there.
But in all actuality Rarer than originally thought!
A side note here: This reverse die (Rev. L) is loaded with graver slips!
Possibly from a heavy night of drinks or a New Apprentice...
I thought you were going to Milwaukee?
Mike
Be sure to report back with your findings on this marriage.
Mike
Mozin was to report back to us after the ANA on the O-113a's previously discussed. He has been quiet. It takes longer for some of us to get over jet-lag, I guess.
I still do not know if the coin in my 1824 O-113a "hole" is the REAL O-113a. I will figure it out sooner or later.
In the meantime - still waiting for Mozin - here are the 1824's in numerical order on these pages:
Absolutely amazing
You are lucky to find the 1824 over various in a PCGS holder. Your specimen is a bit nicer than the first one I ever owned, bought about 20 years ago.
Some diagnostics for 1824 O-115 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Stars 7, 8, and 13 all about 1/2 mm from cap and curl. Date has large figures.
Reverse: A dot shows in the field below the left end of the scroll and eagle’s left wing. “A” and “M” touch at base. Tiny die chip shows at right end of scroll. “N” in “UNITED” is higher than “I”. Tiny dot shows just above bottom loop of “C” in “50 C”, at its center. Left sides of “I” and ”T” are in line.
Joe
<< <i>Jobiwan115,
This is one of the varieties that I used in a study many years ago to prove that the center dot was placed on the shield BEFORE the shield was engraved. (See page 245 and 246 of Bust Half Fever). Note how the engraver stopped short of the dot, with the horizontal shield line, because he had not yet punched in the lettering and still needed to place the compass in the incuse dot for the layout line on the incomplete working die. You have a neat piece!
Edgar >>
Joe G.
Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
Here's two more from my collection. An 1824/various, and the prime die state 1824/1 discussed above by Ed. Also, I believe, Ed, that this is the coin sold in the Sheridan auction in '95. I bought it last year at the Milwaukee ANA through Sheridan Downey's auction. Thank you again Slumlord!!!
I took edge photos of the 1824/1 before holdering it
-Randy Newman
Welcome to our Lettered Edge Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Nice start.
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
zap
102 capped bust half dollars - 100 die marriages
BHNC #198
1824 O-108
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
This O.103 arrived yesterday. It is the very difficult 1824 over various dates in PCGS AU58. I've been looking a long time for the right upgrade and I finally found it.
This O.115 came via a forum member who was kind enough to sell it to me after I made an offer he couldn't refuse. PCGS AU58.
An ebay purchase that turned out to be a pleasant surprise. I think this O.116 R3 is very eye appealing. Love the strike too. PCGS AU55.
The 1824/1 O.101a, PCGS XF45.
And finally, the 1824/4 O.109, I bought at FUN. PCGS AU55