Do You Think I Got Hosed??

bhartman35

I just logged into my Ebay account, and I noticed I won this item. The obverse looks pretty good, IMO, but there's no reverse pic. I think (according to the PCGS pricelist, anyway) if the coin isn't really crappy on the reverse that I probably got an okay deal. It's hard to tell, though. I put in what I thought was a lowball bid, assuming I'd be outbid by someone eventually. ( )

Edited to read "Ebay" rather than "PayPal".

Bosox48

I've passed on more then a few of his auctions. 27 negs. with a little over 800 positives is more then I'd chance.
Photo in auction looks great, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
Jim

MadMarty

Seller with 97% feedback, $6 shipping, no return policy and no reverse picture.

Me thinks, YOU GOT STIFFED!!™

MisterBungle

I would have never bid on any coin this eBayer
had after checking out his Feedback.

He's just trouble, and I try to avoid trouble on
the bay. I may miss some deals, but it makes
life so much easier on me.

I hope it works out for you though, and chances
are it will.

~

WoodenJefferson

A comment like that comming from you Marty, that's bad!

He just wanted to be hosed!


The pic did show a nice looking IHC....however, there's that word again.

Happy Turkeyday!

edit: ~spotted in feedback~ !!!!!!

>>>>Claimed to send coin; lucky I spotted it back up for bidding; did refund in full<<<<

That can't be good!!!!

roadrunner

The seller is in my neck of the woods and I don't know him. But he has 72 neutrals and negs (92% net fb rating) with many complaints on grading and delivery. The coin to me looks rubbed and choppy and probably not unc. I also think you are in trouble. This is one of the lowest FB ratings you'll see on ebay, definitely in the bottom 5% of sellers. Not likely this will turn out good.

See link below for his FB rating. 98% or lower is usually a warning sign for most sellers. 97% is almost always a red flag, esp for a seller with over 200 FB's. Toolhaus.org is a great way to review all the negative responses to a seller in one shot. A superb tool.

roadrunner

vinrare1 on toolhaus.org

segoja

With that much negative, I'd stay away.

My guess is you'll get the coin and be dissatisfied.

Keep us posted!

Hope you paid with a credit card through paypal.

bhartman35

It's a relatively cheap lesson, if it doesn't go well. A lot of his negs apparently came from the same people, and some of them simply didn't read his terms. But he got at least one neg from someone because of the reverse he didn't show in that auction, and that kind of worries me.

BillJones

From the one side I can see, I'll tell you this. The coin is very well struck, but there is not in that it's an MS-67.

I think that it's a $15 coin for which you will pay $49 + shipping.

Rampage

Good luck on the coin.

TorinoCobra71

I usually NEVER bid on coins if the seller does not provide BOTH Obverse and Reverse pics.

TorinoCobra71

bhartman35

<< <i>From the one side I can see, I'll tell you this. The coin is very well struck, but there is now in that it's an MS-67.

I think that it's a $15 coin for which you will pay $49 + shipping. >>



I have no doubt that it's not an MS-67. I pretty much ignored what he said about the coin in his description. But even in MS-60 BN it's $80 on the PCGS site. The obverse doesn't give me any real worries in that regard. It's the fact that the reverse isn't pictured that worries me. It might have some kind of gash that prevents it from being graded, or something of that nature.

ziggy29

What I see looks nice even though it's no 67. Best case you'll get something about 63BN or 64BN, I think, which wouldn't be a horrible deal. But I just have a feeling the reverse will be disappointing or that this coin will be an AU upon closer inspection. For your sake, I hope I'm wrong.

<< <i>But even in MS-60 BN it's $80 on the PCGS site. >>

It's $80 there in Proof-60. In MS-60 it lists at $40.

bhartman35

<< <i>I usually NEVER bid on coins if the seller does not provide BOTH Obverse and Reverse pics.

TorinoCobra71 >>



Lesson learned! I guess I just have to cross my fingers now and hope for the best.

Petescorner

<< <i> I put in what I thought was a lowball bid, assuming I'd be outbid by someone eventually. ( ) >>



Uh...you bid 10 times on it.

bhartman35

<< <i>

<< <i> I put in what I thought was a lowball bid, assuming I'd be outbid by someone eventually. ( ) >>



Uh...you bid 10 times on it. >>



Yeah, but I stopped at what I thought was a lowball bid.

123cents

I don't know if you got hosed but I will never buy from a person with that kind of a feedback record.

roadrunner

Regardless of what the PCGS site list an MS60BN for, it's a $15 or so coin as Bill Jones mentioned. For an $80 coin or even $40, you need to be a the MS64 RB or BN. Not likely that this coin will be up to the 64 level. The fact that the seller mentions MS67 speaks VOLUMES about what his scam is. How often are you going to beat this type of dealer at his own game buying from a poor photo?

The dealer you want to buy this coin from will call it what it is.

roadrunner

fastrudy

The reverse of that coin is available in his next auction

lathmach

Lets see......................
You bid 10 times on this, but you stopped where you thought you'd get outbid because you didn't want the coin?
You nuts or something?

Ray

bhartman35

<< <i>Lets see......................
You bid 10 times on this, but you stopped where you thought you'd get outbid because you didn't want the coin?
You nuts or something?

Ray >>



In answer to your question: Yeah, probably.

It's not that I don't want the coin at all. The obverse, at least, is 100 times better than any IHC I've ever owned, and probably an AU, at least. It's the lack of a reverse that bothers me. Otherwise, I wouldn't even question the whole thing. I'd be doing a wheelie right about now at having won, if both sides were in that condition.

flaminio

toynu (the underbidder) just learned a hard lesson on why one should always snipe. bhartman35's bidding pattern is exactly the kind of thing a sniper avoids. If toynu had sniped his max instead of proxying it, he would have won the coin at $29 rather than losing it at $48.

So bhartman35 got hosed because he overpaid for a coin he didn't really want, toynu got hosed because he lost a coin he did want. The seller did OK, however .

Petescorner

Here's why I think you will be OK on this one. I checked a handfull of the seller's other auctions for Indian Heads and none of them had a reverse picture either. It just seems to be the way he does things. If all the others had 2 pics and yours was the only one with 1, then I'd be a little more concerned that he was hiding something.

bhartman35

<< <i>So bhartman35 got hosed because he overpaid for a coin he didn't really want, toynu got hosed because he lost a coin he did want. The seller did OK, however . >>



I didn't expect to win it, but if I didn't want it at all, I wouldn't have bid. Unfortunately, I won't know if I really want the coin until it shows up. (That's if it shows up.)

TomB

Wow. How many red flags do you need before you don't bid on an auction? Thirtyfive neutral feedbacks in the last year...thirtyfour negative feedbacks in the last year...neutral and negative feedbacks received for overgrading of coins...no reverse image...merchandise credit only on returns...$6 shipping with no proof of insurance...and then to bid $49, which is actually $55, for a coin that may very well grade AU58 and be worth about $20. You appear to be a "bargain hunter" and those folks are the best customers for sellers whom I would not do business with at any price.

By the way, do you think this seller is our old friend from ebay who has been kicked off as several user names and who many folks on this board are familiar with through the years?

Myqqy

Wow. How many red flags do you need before you don't bid on an auction? Thirtyfive neutral feedbacks in the last year...thirtyfour negative feedbacks in the last year...neutral and negative feedbacks received for overgrading of coins...no reverse image...merchandise credit only on returns...$6 shipping with no proof of insurance...and then to bid $49, which is actually $55, for a coin that may very well grade AU58 and be worth about $20. You appear to be a "bargain hunter" and those folks are the best customers for sellers whom I would not do business with at any price.

I agree with TomB....

Connecticoin

Looks AU to me.

Consider it a $40 lesson in numismatics. The lesson may save you from taking a bigger loss in a comparable situation.

RYK

At worst, it is a relatively inexpensive lesson on how NOT to buy coins on ebay. The rest is all upside.

TwoSides2aCoin

I'm not one to beat a dead horse... but where's my stick ?

Fairlaneman

yes.

DeusExMachina

<< <i>Wow. How many red flags do you need before you don't bid on an auction? Thirtyfive neutral feedbacks in the last year...thirtyfour negative feedbacks in the last year...neutral and negative feedbacks received for overgrading of coins...no reverse image...merchandise credit only on returns...$6 shipping with no proof of insurance...and then to bid $49, which is actually $55, for a coin that may very well grade AU58 and be worth about $20. You appear to be a "bargain hunter" and those folks are the best customers for sellers whom I would not do business with at any price.

By the way, do you think this seller is our old friend from ebay who has been kicked off as several user names and who many folks on this board are familiar with through the years? >>





But I will say this, there are opportunities on ebay. I like it when everyone hates a seller, or buying on ebay--it leads to oppotunities. However, there are too many red flags on this one for me, IMO.

NumisOxide

<< <i>Do You Think I Got Hosed?? >>


Yes.

notwilight

Note to self: Never ask a question this wide open. --Jerry

roadrunner

Forget the missing reverse photo as it is irrelevant imo. The obv picture all by itself tells the story. Even a flawless reverse photo would not make a difference.

roadrunner

onthespot

well, we are all waiting with bated breath. you must post a pic when the stork delivers it.

bhartman35

All the feedback here is well-taken. I was aware I was taking a chance, which is why I didn't bid as strongly as I would have if he'd shown both sides. As I said, it's 100x better than any IHC I've ever owned, even if the reverse has a deep scratch. I never thought it would slab, or it would be in a slab already, probably. But if you want to say I was deal-hunting, then, yeah, I was deal-hunting. I don't see anything wrong with that, when the stakes are as low as they were in this auction. Every once in awhile you do get a deal, even if sometimes you take a bath.

As for the feedback, I would've preferred 100%, but I've won items from people w/ 97% positive feedback before and haven't been burned by them. IMHO, the feedback system can be gamed, so it's not the be-all-and-end-all.

I've looked at this guy's coin auctions (after winning mine) and apparently he never images the reverse, from what I've seen. This, to me, says laziness more than deception. I'd find it hard to believe if all his coins had problem reverses he was trying to hide.

Anyway, I'm going to hope for the best. I'll let everyone know what happens, and show the coin. I probably won't hear anything for a week, based on what he says in the description. It'll either be a valuable lesson or a pleasant surprise.

Thanks for all your opinions.

GullibleNewb

MBT offers a course on coin dumpster-diving, you may want to check it out.

As for your coin, I am bothered by the lack of luster showing in the picture. Not that it precludes it from being MS I guess, but it makes me lean AU.

DenverDave

That's one of the problems with Ebay, among others...

You only have to have a 95% rating and pay your bills...

This guy could have almost twice the negs and still be selling on Ebay...

I guess there relying on you to read the feedback..."-)

bhartman35

<< <i>MBT offers a course on coin dumpster-diving, you may want to check it out. >>



I already consider myself a dumpster-diver, in everything but Mercs, and maybe Morgans. I could always stand to learn more, though.

I tend to leave the higher-priced stuff alone, because of my budget. IIRC, $150 has been the most I've paid for a coin so far, and that one was slabbed. I'd never put down that kind of money for a raw coin on Ebay.



<< <i>As for your coin, I am bothered by the lack of luster showing in the picture. Not that it precludes it from being MS I guess, but it makes me lean AU. >>



I'll really have to see it in-hand to make a judgment about that. Some of the coins he's sold really look like he's at least trying to grade them accurately, but then again, he's got an auction like
this. On the positive side, at least this one has both sides pictured. But I mean, , does he really think that's an MS-66 coin??

GoldenEyeNumismatics

very fishy, probably not worth what you paid

rec78

Here's why I think you will be OK on this one. I checked a handfull of the seller's other auctions for Indian Heads and none of them had a reverse picture either. It just seems to be the way he does things
If you look at the rest of his auctions you can tell he is an overgrader. (WAY over) Pics are bad and only shows one side.

I tend to leave the higher-priced stuff alone, because of my budget. IIRC, $150 has been the most I've paid for a coin so far, and that one was slabbed. I'd never put down that kind of money for a raw coin on Ebay.
Hint: avoid auctions like this and you will have a better budget. I hope you make me eat my words and it is an MS66(with an S on the reverse).

michael

a cheap education

Dog97

You might get lucky but the skeptic in me says you got hosed on an overpriced AU. Specially when the seller calls it 67. If he would have been reasonable and called it a 63 the flags wouldn't have gone up as fast. Something on the cheek & high points that makes me think it’s not MS. Good luck!

sinin1

I vote for cleaned/retoned

and XF/AU



did you get hosed? not really, just buried into this coin for about 50 years - give to a grandkid