Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

1828 - The 9th in a series of Capped Bust Half Dollars- Show your busts.

2»

Comments

  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Another missing die marriage, the 1828 O-106, R4+.

    The is one of the TWO 1828 die marriages with the curled base and knobbed top 2. The other curl base, knob 2 DM is the O-107.

    The obverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse die 3. This is the only use of this obverse die. Late die states of this die marriage shows a die crack from chin to chest to rim above top of bust.

    The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Reverse die F. This was the first of three uses of this reverse die. Immediately after striking the O-106, the reverse die was used to strike the "slightly uncommon" O-107 DM and then the "rare" O-105 DM.

    The quick identifier, of course for the O-106 and the O-107 is the curl base, knob 2. The O-106 can be separated from the O-107 easily by the die line on the O-107 that pierces the liberty band just below the I in LIBERTY. The O-106 does not have this die line.

    Along with the obverse and reverse photos of my O-106 I have included close ups of the field in front of the nose & chin and the field above the date.

    The field in front of the nose and chin I believe has a very shallow hairlined scratch that runs horizontal in front of the nose and then turns 90 degrees towards and to the chest. It does meet the LDS die crack requirements as stated above. But there appears to be a die crack that "cuts off" 45 degrees from this "scratch" towards the lower neck.

    HOWEVER, the curving line above the 28 in the date I believe to be a die crack. (not to be confused with the horizontal die clash line in the same area). Looking at this "die crack" with a 15x it appears to have jagged edges like a die break. HAS ANYONE SEEN THIS ON ANY OTHER O-106? Any feedback would be appreciated.

    Photos of my 1828 O-106, R4+:

    image
    image I believe this to be a scratch in the field running out from the nose then down to the chest.
    image I believe this is a curving die break above the 2.
    image

  • As soon as my daughter shows me how to get the scanner working I will post all three die states of the 1828 O-123.
    Van
  • Cool Van !
    Three stages of an R-5 !
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Cool Van !
    Three stages of an R-5 ! >>



    I keep checking back on the boards to see when this updates. I too can't wait Van.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    This die state is still missing.


    image
    image


    Some diagnostics for Sq base 2 Sm 8’s 1828 O-117a R1:


    imageimage


    Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Date is low. Mouth is slightly open.


    imageimage


    Reverse: 50 C is high, and upper serif of C is recut, showing above. 5 is higher than 0, and it is also tipped to the left. This LDS shows a crack from rim below left wing tip, along top of UNITED STATES OF A, and on to edge above M. I is centered under left side of T.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Another missing die STATE: The 1828 O-114a, R3:

    This is the same as the 1828 O-114 except for die cracks on the reverse.

    The O-114a has three die cracks: (1) a die crack from below olive leaves to top of UNITE; (2) a die crack along the top of STATES; and (3) from above A2 joining the top of MERICA then going to the tip of the center arrowhead.

    I marked the die cracks with red arrows on my coin.

    There is no obverse die crack on my coin.

    SIDENOTE: Very Late Die Sates of this die marriage have an obverse die crack from the rim to star 7 through the L of LIBERTY going to the eye, then to the clasp to rim through the second 8. There is also a die crack from the bust to the upper serif of the 1.

    Photos of my 1828 O-114a, R3:

    image
    image
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe that an 1828 O-108 has been posted, but here is another with a closer look at some of the characteristics of this marriage.
    I was lucky enough to pick up this awesome CBH from edmerlr. Not only is he off the charts with his knowledge of the CBH series, he is a really nice guy also. Thanks for this one Ed as well as a few of the others that I was able to pick up from you (shameless plug---his EBAY addy is edmerir and he has a bearded goddess on the bay as we speak)image
    1828 O-108 R3
    Utilizes Obverse 5 and Reverse G
    Obv-8's are large and the first 8 is recut inside the loops (It is thought to be over a small 8) the 2 has a square base with a knobbed top, there is an engraving tool mark from the drapery at the right breast and a triangular die defect between the breasts.
    Rev- The lines of stripe es 2 through 6 show below the shield, the right sides of T and I are in line.

    image
    image
    image
    image
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Here is another missing die STATE and one that I have spent probably too much time trying to figure out: The 1828 O-118a, R4. This die STATE is part of the 1828 O-118 die MARRIAGE that was struck in very late in the calendar year 1828.

    Part of my consternation is brought about by the remarriage of the dies that produced this coin.

    When an obverse die and a reverse die are mated this creates a die marriage. When they are no longer used together to strike a coin, they become “divorced”---usually never to be ever used together to strike a coin. …but there are examples in the Bust Half series where dies have been put back together a second time to strike a die marriage. We call this a remarriage.

    The 1828 O-118a is the offspring, if you will, of a die remarriage.

    This die remarriage was first discovered and reported by the esteemed Russ Logan in a John Reich Journal article in 1993.

    The Bust Half Nut Club published Errata reports the Emission Order (E.O.) for the 1828 O-118 DM to be as follows: First the 1828 O-118 was struck, then the 1829 O-110, then the 1828 O-118a, then the 1829 O-110a.

    Looking at the die cracks on the reverse of both my 1828 O-118a and my 1829 O-110a (not a subject of this posting), I am led to believe the E.O. should be: 28 O-118, 29 O-110, 29 O-110a, and lastly the 28 O-118a. …but I am open to being corrected.

    The Leaman/Gunnet treatise states that the 1828 O-118 DM was the last coin struck in the year 1828. It also states that the 1829 O-110 DM was the first coin struck in the year 1829. Actually die state 28 O-118 was struck in the calendar year 1828, but the die state 1828 O-118a was struck in the calendar year 1829.

    The obverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse die 11. It would be the first of two uses of this die. The die was later used to strike the 1828 O-119 in the calendar year 1829.

    The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Reverse die P. This was the first of two uses of this die. The die was next used to strike the 1829 O-110 as discussed above.

    This is a result of frequent die switching. At some point in the striking of the 1828 O-118 the obverse die was removed and 1829 Obverse Die G was installed to strike the 1829 O-110. Later, either after the die state 1829 O-110 or O-110a was struck, 1829 Obv. Die G was removed and 1828 Obv. Die P-s2 (the die cracked Obv. Die P) was reinstalled to strike the 1828 O-118a.

    What defines the O-118a and separates it from the O-118?

    The O/P book states there is a die crack that joins the bottom of the 50 C. Another (die crack) circles from the olive leaves through and around the legend from UNIT to AME.

    In describing the die cracks on the 1829 O-110a more extensive die cracks are listed than on the 1828 O-118a in the O/P book’s description. This would obviously support that the 1829 O-110a was struck AFTER the 1828 O-118a.

    …but on my 1828 O-118a the die cracks are more extensive as described in the O/P book for either the 1828 O-118a or the 1829 O-110a. This is why I believe the 1829 O-110a was struck BEFORE the 1828 O-118a. Of course this belief is based solely on my interpretation of the verbal intent of Overton’s die crack description.

    On my coin’s photo of the reverse you will find 3 different colored arrows.

    (1) Red arrows to point to the extent of the die crack as I interpret the O/P diagnostics for the 1828 O-118a

    (2) Green arrows to point to the extended die crack as reported in the O/P book for the 1829 O-110a. (beyond those reported for the 1828 O-118a)

    (3) Yellow arrows for my coin’s die crack at any point beyond any O/P book diagnostics for either the 28 O-118a or 29 O-110a.

    Photos of my 1828 O-118a, R4:

    image
    image
  • Great Post Ed !!!...image

    I'll give you a star for this one.
    Alot of thought in correctly getting this one out.
    And well worth the time to totally digest.
    So get your pencil and paper out Guys and follow along.

    Mike (SGFM)
  • Job Well Done JRocco !
    Your picture posts are getting alot nicer !image

    Mike
  • slumlord98slumlord98 Posts: 1,180
    To Fever:

    Were the bank manager's initials CE?

    To Edmerlr:

    Are you sure that the emission sequence for those DMs was as you posted? If so, would that not qualify as a double remarriage? Is it possible that the sequence was 29 110, 28 118, 29 110, with the die cracks forming while 28 118 was being coined? If not, what evidence is available to indicate that there was a double remarriage, such as cracks or clash marks or lapping unique to each of the four states you listed? Edge die comparison would be another way to conclusively prove which sequence is correct. I don't know the answer but strongly suspect that there is but a single remarriage.
  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Here's another missing die marriage: The 1828 O-103, R2. Curl base no knob 2.

    The was the first 1828 Bustie struck in the calendar year 1828.

    The obverse was struck using Obverse Die 2. This was the first of three uses of this die. The die would be used again to strike the O-104 and then the O-105.

    The reverse was struck using Reverse Die C. This was the second and last use of this die. The die was used immediately prior to strike the 1827 O-111, which was the last 1827 Bustie struck in the calendar year 1827. (Three 1827 Busties would be struck later in calendar year 1828.)

    Quick identifiers for this die marriage are:

    (1) The 8's look small because of thinner lines (same as the O-104 & O-105)
    (2) The 2 has a large open curl (again, the same as the O-104 & O-105)
    (3) On the reverse the bottom of the center stripe of the shield is unfinished. Lines 1 and 3 of this stripe extend to the bottom of the shield. Line 2 is heavier and stops just short of reaching the bottom of the shield, leaving a key hole effect.
    (4) The top of the 5 is recut.

    Photos of my 1828 O-103, R2:

    image
    image
  • FEVERFEVER Posts: 232
    To Slumlord,

    Yes! But now the question is: "How did you know?"

    image

    Edgar
    image
  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Here is another missing die MARRIAGE: The 1828 O-116, R2.

    This slightly uncommon die marriage is another example of the square base 2, small 8's, and large letters variety.

    The obverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse Die 9. This is the first of two uses of this die. The die was used immediately after to strike the O-115 die marriage.

    The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Reverse Die M. This is the first of two uses of this die. The die was used later in 1828 to strike the O-121 die marriage.

    There are 3 unique identifiers to this die marriage. One is on the obverse and shared with the O-115. The other two are on the reverse and shared with the O-121.

    On the obverse there are at least 5 parallel lines beneath the bust and to the left of the 1: image

    On the reverse you will find rust spots through and above the right claws: image

    Also on the reverse a split tail feather pierces the upper olive leaves: image

    Photos of my 1828 O-116, R2:

    image
    image
  • Posted this on May 29, but never heard any comments - please educate me on which type this one is, which DM and your opinion on grade. Thanks!

    image
    Exclusively collecting Capped Bust Halves in VF to AU, especially rarity 3 and up.
    image
    Joe G.
    Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Posted this on May 29, but never heard any comments - please educate me on which type this one is, which DM and your opinion on grade. Thanks! >>



    Sorry about that Joe.

    Your coin looks to be O-121. See edmerlr's on page 2 of the thread. As for type...Knobbed 2, square base, small 8's. For grade...I would say low AU.

    Jim
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.


  • << <i>Your coin looks to be O-121. See edmerlr's on page 2 of the thread. As for type...Knobbed 2, square base, small 8's. For grade...I would say low AU.

    Jim >>



    I very much appreciate your comments, Jim. I see what you mean about edmerlr's - the rough die patches on the reverse, especially.
    Exclusively collecting Capped Bust Halves in VF to AU, especially rarity 3 and up.
    image
    Joe G.
    Great BST purchases completed with commoncents123, p8nt, blu62vette and Stuart. Great coin swaps completed with rah1959, eyoung429 and Zug. Top-notch consignment experience with Russ.
  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Here is a low grade example of one of the missing die MARRIAGES: The 1828 O-111, R4. This is another die marriage with the square base 2 and small 8's.

    The obverse of this very scarce die marriage was struck using Obverse Die 6. This was the second and last use of this die. This die was used just prior to strike the O-11O.

    The reverse was struck using Reverse Die J. This was the first use of this die. It would be used one more time to strike the O-112 after striking the O-111.

    On the obverse there are two identifiers unique to the O-111 (and the O-110):

    (1) There is a line joining the liberty band and the cap: image

    (2) There is a dot between the shoulder forecurl and the clasp. There should be several die lumps in this area and to the left of this area caused by rusting of the die: image

    On the reverse there are also two identifiers unique to the O-111 (and the O-112):

    (1) The serif of the C of 50 C. is recut with a diagonal line to the right of the upper serif: image

    (2) The TE of STATES lean toward each other. The T is rotated clockwise and the E counterclockwise: image

    Photos of my 1828 O-111, R4:

    image
    image
  • Ed
    I don't believe my eyes!!!
    You Cropped your scan !!!
    GOOD JOB BUDDY !!!....image
  • edmerlredmerlr Posts: 563
    Dearly beloved SomeGuyFromMichigan:

    To crop all it takes is a good, sharp pair of scissors and a good photo copier/scanner.

    ...and I was cutting things with scissors back when you were in diapers.

    ALSO, STOP GETTING THIS THREAD OFF OF THE SUBJECT OF 1828 BUSTIES!!!
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,275 ✭✭✭
    I believe mine is an O-111 (yep, it appears to have the correct diagnostics)

    imageimage
    image
    image
    image
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Another 1828 dup Bustie...


    imageimage


    Some diagnostics for Sq base 2 Sm 8’s Lg Ltr 1828 O-118 R3:


    image


    Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Star 13 close to curl. (Obverse shared with O-119).


    imageimage


    Reverse: Words crowded together, most obvious at DS. 50 C is high with a large C. (Reverse shared with 1829 O-110.) I centered under right side of T.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • Two weeks since the last 1828 posting. Time to start bringing some life back to the Bustie date threads.

    In the following I intend a different type of Show and Tell. But first some order of business must be taken care of.

    40 years ago when I was in the Army we used a word to describe a job well-done. This word was "outstanding." ...and the word was spoken with emphasis just like you would shout an expletive.

    Mozin is the caretaker of these "Missing die marriage/die state Bustie date threads." Thank you Mozin. You have done an OUTSTANDING job keeping the "Missing List" current.

    Still missing from the 1828 threads are the O-109, R3 and O-123, R5+. You will see an O-109's obverse below, but because I do NOT present both the obverse and reverse of this DM in this posting, I do NOT believe this DM should be checked off the missing list.

    You will also see a coin labeled the O-123. Not really. This coin, per the 4th edition, is really the O-123a. The coin's label was printed up before the 4th edition was published. The coin IS THE O-123 per the 3rd edition - the 4th edition corrected this. The REAL O-123 is very, very rare. I do not intend to own one unless I have a fortunate cherrypick. (You might want to re-read the individual O-123 DM posting earlier in this date thread.)

    I have already posted some of these coins individually on this date-thread. I thought you might want to see them in Overton numerical order. ...and I wanted to POINT OUT one coin to prove a point: "Looks are deceiving." We must always remember this as we troll eBay and also view other internet coin listings. There is NOTHING LIKE viewing the coin in hand to get the "WHOLE STORY."

    By personality I always do things "with a sense of urgency" (or I don't do anything at all). Because of this, unlike Mozin, FEVER and CoinAddict (who posted his Busties on a different Forum thread) my coins are NOT COMPLETELY consistent in eye appeal and toning. I was able to maintain grade consistency on the R4 and below coins in my collection, but I lacked (and still lack) the patience required for acheiving complete consistency in my collection.

    Why do I mention this? I am trying to seque into "Looks are Deceiving." You see, one of the prettiest 1828's in the scan below is my rare, photographically gorgeous 1828 O-105, R5. I PM'd a scan of this coin to JRocco earlier (several weeks after I posted it individually here on the Forum) and JRocco was astute to realise that "something was amiss" with the coin.

    Of all of my 1828's this O-105 is the ONLY one with a problem. The other 1828's are "just fine" - no problems. ...but the O-105 will never make it into a slab. If it were original, it may grade as an AU-53 or AU-55 in today's market, but it has to be given a net grade of EF-40 or EF-45. The coin has not only been dipped but it also has been polished to shine like an old-fashioned automobile chrome bumper.

    When I bought the O-105, I knew what I was getting - so return was not an issue. ...but, in the future, if YOU see a gorgeous coin on the internet and if YOU do NOT want to end up with a coin that emulates an auto chrome bumper, PLEASE make sure the seller has a return policy - even if the coin comes in a third-rate TPG slab. (Some sellers allow for return of raw coins, but do not allow return of slabbed coins.)

    (I had an opportunity to replace this O-105 with an original, problem-free EF-40 not too long ago. The seller wanted an awefully lot of money - too much, I thought - for his EF-40, so I said "No" and chose to keep the shiny coin that you see here.)

    Here are my Dansco pages with the 1828's:

    image
    image
    image
  • TopdollarpaidTopdollarpaid Posts: 600 ✭✭✭
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    image
    Randy Conway

    Www.killermarbles.com

    Www.suncitycoin.com
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    image
    image


    Some diagnostics for Small Letter Sq base 2 Sm 8’s 1828 O-119 R3:


    image


    Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Star 13 close to curl, and points to upper edge of dentil. (Obverse shared with O-118).


    imageimageimage


    Reverse: “STA” is recut, showing a small tine left of upper left serif of “T”, and to the left of “A” near its top. Tip of flag on “5” is recut. A2 and A3 are filled inside their tops. (Reverse is later used for 1829 O-111.) “I” centered under right side of “T”.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • tychojoetychojoe Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭
    Another helpful diagnostic for the O-102, R-2 is the N recut on its upper left. Thanks Coin Zip!

    image
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Bought this one last year. It is O-107. The curl 2 1828s are very difficult to find in PCGS AU/MS, especially with the CAC sticker.



    image
    image
    image
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,191 ✭✭✭✭
    Mozin,

    Cool toning on that Curl Base w/ Knob! image

    I agree it is a very elusive variety... in any grade.
    Lurking and learning since 2010. Full-time professional numismatist based in SoCal.
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O.109, O.110, O.119.
    Lance.

    imageimage
    imageimage
    imageimage
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I love the look of this curl 2. A bummer about the stain.
    Lance.

    imageimage
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    imageimage
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Sure hope you guys are enjoying these old threads as much as I am. You have shown some really nice Busties, and I love it!
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • CocoinutCocoinut Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have an 1828 Bust half, square base 2, knob 2. small 8's. I'm no expert on these, and don't have the Overton book, and have not been able to match this coin with any shown in this thread. One diagnostic that I found on it is on the reverse, in the letter R in AMERICA, where there is a diagonal die break inside the top of the R. If anyone is able to attribute based on my photos, I'd appreciate it.

    image
    image


    Here is a closeup that shows the die break inside the R:

    image


    Jim

    Edited to replace original photos with clearer ones.
    Countdown to completion of my Mercury Set: 1 coin. My growing Lincoln Set: Finally completed!
  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like O.118, Jim.
    Lance.
  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Jim, Lance is right. If you bought your coin as a common 1828, you did really well. Don't sell it.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • CocoinutCocoinut Posts: 2,515 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lance/Mozin,

    Thanks for the attribution. I bought that coin in 1983/84 along with an 1822, paying $60 for the pair. They appeared to have come from the same collection, having surfaces that were nearly identical. If the 1828 is an R3, I guess I did all right. Now I need to look at the 1822 (as well as a handful of other Busties).

    Jim
    Countdown to completion of my Mercury Set: 1 coin. My growing Lincoln Set: Finally completed!
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • 1828 o-107

    image
    image

    What is this?
    image
    image
    You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com
  • You may call me Dave
    BHNC member # 184!

    http://www.busthalfaddict.com

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file