Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Star 7 points to upper half of dentil, and to junction of curl and headband. (Obverse shared with O-118.)
Reverse: “5” is recut, showing left of upright. Line 1 of stripe 1, and line 3 of stripe 5, extend upwards too far. Left sides of “I” and “T” are in line.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
The 1830 O-112 die marriage, both the EDS and the IDS.
Of the 23 separate 1830 die marriages only 2 die marriages are considered very scarce and 1 is considered rare.
The O-112 is rated by the Bust Half Nut Club as having a R4+ rarity which makes it very scarce, but puts it almost into the rare category.
The obverse die used to strike this die marriage was Obv. die 6-s2. Obverse die 6 was used immediately prior to strike the O-111. It was renamed 6-s2 because die had begun to show wear with the stars partly drawn to the edge for the striking of the O-112.
The reverse die used to strike this die marriage was Rev. die E. Reverse die E was a strong work horse die used later to stike the O-105 immediately after the O-112 and the O-110 later in the year.
Quick identifiers for this die marriage:
(1) Star 7 is closer than usual to the headband.
(2) The IBE in LIBERTY has been recut with the earlier cutting just inside the left-most margins of the letters.
(3) On the reverse the 5 is tall, open, and has a straight pointed top.
(4) The base of the M is higher than the adjoining A and E on both sides.
(5) The right side of the D is in line with the left side of E.
Photos of the 1830 O-112, R4+:
*******************
The Late Die State of the same as the Early Die State except that all stars are solidly drawn to the edge and a die chip (break?) partly fills the upper loop of the 3.
Photos of the 1830 O-112a, R4+: The coin pictured is ex Jules Reiver collection
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. This is the only Medium 0.
Reverse: “A” in “STATES” is filled at top. Crossbar section of shield is flatly struck, crossbars nearly filled. “I” is centered under left side of “T”.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
The 1830 O-107 die marriage, both the EDS and the IDS
This die marriage was struck using Obversie die 4 and Reverse die G. This was the only use of these dies.
There are possibly three quick indentifiers for this die marriage.
(1) On the obverse some of these specimens show recutting along the top of the bottom serifs of the 1. In my photos this recutting cannot be seen on the EDS, but it can be seen on the top of left bottom serif of the 1 on the IDS. (2) On the obverse most of these specimens show double profiling. On my photos the EDS is double profiled, the IDS is not. (3) On the reverse ALL specimens show tines off the left corners of the shield. The most prominate is on lower left upper corner. This can be seen on my photos.
Photos of the 1830 O-107, R2:
************** The Intermediate Die State (IDS) of the 1830 O-107 die marriage.
The coin I am showing is the Intermediate Die State because it only has 3 of the 4 diagnostic die cracks as diescribed in the O/P book for the Late Die State of this coin.
Most of the three die cracks are on my coin and marked with obnoxious little red arrows. By "most" I mean that they are not developed to the full extent as described in the O/P book.
The 4th die crack on the LDS and that is not present on my coin is the one from the edge above star 7 that runs into the front of the cap into the headband.
IF SOMEBODY HAS THE LATE DIE STATE OF THIS COIN WITH THE COMPLETE DIE CRACKS, PLEASE POST IT IN THE FORUM.
Another example of the 1830 O-114 Large Letters die marriage.
Zap1111 showed his holy example of the O-114 on Page 1 of this Thread.
I am curious about Zap's rumored revised rarity rating to a R4+. "Word on the street...," I believe he says.
The O/P Book and the Bust Half Nut Club still report it as R5 with 47 to 63 pieces estimated to exist. (This is not to be confused with the R5- and R5+ ratings.)
Edgar Souders in "Bust Half Fever II" makes the statement: "...with only about 29 examples (in all grades) reported."
IF ANYONE HAS ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ON THE "TRUE" RARITY, PLEASE POST IT ON THE FORUM.
This is still a tough die marriage to find.
The obverse die used to strike this die marriage is Obverse die 7-s2. Obverse die 7-s2 is the same as Obverse die 7 which was used previously to strike O-113. The die for the O-114 striking was renamed 7-s2 because of this stage in its usage the stars are partly drawn to the edge and the die chip in the upper part of the 3 has now formed a notch. It is interesting to note that the O-114 was struck approximately halfway through calendar year 1830. Whereas the O-113 was the first Half Dollar struck in 1830.
Late die states of the O-113 also show the die chip in the upper knob of the 3. Here are photos of the 3's in both die marriages:
The 3 in the Late Die State O-113. The 3 in the rare O-114.
Compare these die chipped 3's with the die chip in the 3 of the LDS O-115 struck with Obverse die 8 later in 1830: ************************************************************************
The reverse die used to strike this die marriage was Reverse die L. Reverse die L was previously used in the last half of 1828 to strike the scarce 1828 O-122 die marriage. This reverse die was named Reverse die S for the striking of the 1828 O-122.
Because this is the Large Letters Reverse the quick identifier for this die marriage is the running together of the D and the S on the reverse to read: UNITEDSTATES.
Another "double-check," of course, would be the notched 3.
The Star 7 placement to the Headband and Curl are explained at the end. But notice the difference on each die !
Rev. die B
Diagnostic characteristic is the small spike that protrudes from the Eagle's body at the juncture of the right wing. Another is the 2 die gouges in the shield, right of stripe 4. Top of "E" in UNITED is lower than the "T".
The T to I alignment is center of "T" , left side of "I".
You may be wondering about all the RED lines of these pictures? These are reference lines for the Obverse, star 7 to the clasp and Reverse, Scroll Ends and the Upright of 5 in relation to the Claws. Each is Unique to it's die ! Call it a FINGERPRINT !
Another great job describing the marriage. I just learned I have a program where I can draw the red lines and arrows. Maybe I need to go back and alter some of my Bustie picture posts to include some more red color.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
The reverse on your 1830 displays clashing below the right wing, very common throughout the CBH series.
There is a double profile showing in the field left of the face and neck, somewhat common in 1830. The obverse left field appears to have a die scratch line left of Miss Liberty's throat, also common in various locations both obverse and reverse. The many marks on the neck and in the field by the die line are probably from a rust pitted die and file marks in an attempt to remove the pitting from the die---if the marks are raised. If the marks are indented, then the marks are not mint caused. Rusty dies were often used in the early years, not normally seen in later years of the series. This field area might display some clashing from the upper left wing feathers, if these curved design marks are raised..
Anyone think this is O-104 R3?
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and to junction of curl and headband. Stars are large, with blunt points. “0” is large and high.
Reverse: All stripes, except the first one, have one line extending upwards too far. Lines 2 & 3 of stripe 1 are joined. Right side of “I” is under left side of “T”. (Reverse shared with O-121.)
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Here's an 1830, O-118, R3 Later die state for comparison with "Speety's" earlier post of his O-118. This piece is also a "Guido" with the planchet "pushed out" of round by the incomplete rotation thru the edge-lettering machine. There are no letters in these pushed out area's that are directly across the planchet from one another (above the Cap and below the date and, of course, showing up on the reverse above the last S of STATES and OF and below - to a lesser degree - near the lowest olive leaves and the 5 of the denomination.
Another of the missing die marriages: the 1830 O-121, R3.
This is one of the four 1830 DM's with the Large 0.
The obverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse die 13. This was the only use of this obverse die.
The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse die R. This was the first of two uses of this reverse die. The die was again used later in calendar year 1830 to strike the O-120.
Quick identifiers of this die marriage:
(1) The stars on the left are usually flat. (2) The numerals 830 in the date are progressively higher. (On the O-120 the 8 & 3 are horizontally placed with the 0 being higher.) (3) The letters in AMERICA are evenly placed.
The coin I will show you is a "special one." Either you will like it or you would prefer one in a different conditon.
My coin is an Early Die State with die lines above the cap. Also, because it is an EDS, there are no reverse centering dots. Also my coin was struck on a flawed planchet. The planchet flaw can be plainly seen running through the curls and at Star 8.
Here's my newest Crustie Bustie for your viewing pleasure. I'm pretty sure it's an O-117, but could be wrong. I see some slight doubling on the "5" in "50 C."; plus all the other lettering that matches up.
Here is another missing die marriage: the 1830 O-109, R3.
This die marriage was struck towards the middle of calendar year 1831 using Obverse Die 5 and Reverse Die H.
Obverse Die 5 is one of the workhorse dies of the 1830 Busties. It was first used to strike the 1830 O-110, R3. The 1830 O-110 was the last 1830 die marriage struck in the calendar year 1830.
As the calendar year 1831 began, 1830 Obv. Die 5, still in usable condition, was put to the side – possibly for future “emergency use.” Four 1831 die marriages would be struck before it would be necessary to bring 1830 Obv. Die 5 back into service. This is what apparently happened:
Upon completion of the striking of the 1831 O-103, R1 using Obv. Die 2 and Rev. Die C, both dies were completely removed from service. Because of the R1 rarity rating, it is reasonable to assume this was a large run of coins.
Quite possibly no new 1831 dated obverse dies were available for use when 1831 Obv. Die 2 was removed from service. At that time 1830 Obv. Die 5 is brought back into use to be mated with the new 1830 Rev. Die H. The Mint is now striking the 1830 O-108, R3 DM.
As soon as a new 1831 dated obverse die is ready, 1830 Obv. Die 5 is again removed from the screw press and put aside a second time for future “emergency use.” The new 1831 Obv. Die 11 is mated with the reverse die already in the press from the striking of the 1830 O-108. The Mint begins to strike the 1831 O-118, R3 using Obv. Die 11 and Rev. Die M. (1831 Rev. Die M is the same as 1830 Rev. Die H).
After the striking of the 1831 O-118, two more 1831 Busties would be struck – the 1831 O-119 and the O-120. It is during the striking of the 1831 O-120 that an “emergency” developed necessitating the need for the 1830 Obverse Die 5 again.
Shortly into the production of the 1831 O-120, R6, the obverse die buckled and cracked. This obverse die was removed from the press and 1830 Obverse Die 5 was put in its place to be mated with the reverse die already in place in the screw press.
This is the birth of the 1830 O-109 using Obv. Die 5 and Rev. Die I. This was the last use of Obv. Die 5. Rev. Die I would be used one more time to strike the 1831 O-107.
SIDENOTE TO MY SENARIO ABOVE: My scenario places the striking of the 1830 O-109 as the SECOND use of this specific reverse die. This follows the emission order in the Leaman/Gunnet treatise. The O/P book, in the diagnostics of the 1831 O-120, states for the striking of the 1830 O-109 it is the FIRST use of this reverse die. You be the judge.
Quick identifiers for this die marriage are:
(1) 18 is noticeably higher than 30 (2) All stars drawn to the edge (this is the last use of a worn die) (3) The hair curl forms a point in the space between the T & Y of LIBERTY (4) The four lower crossbars extend through the shield on the left (5) The left side of D and E are in line (6) The arrow shaft appears to be broken with a small knob just left of the second claw from the right
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Star 7 points to lower half of dentil, and to center of headband, barely above curl-headband junction. Star 13 points high up on curl.
Reverse: The first two "A's" are mostly filled inside their tops. "50C" is very large, and very high. Tail of "C" in "50C" is split near its end. Right sides of "I" and "T" are in line.
Note: If yours is indeed the O-106, AND it has a die crack from the edge between stars 11 & 12, running to curls, you have the a-die state R4. This can be a very faint crack and still qualify for the late die state >>
Mozin -- the diagnostics above led me to confirm O-106 for this piece, point for point. It was fun to see each diagnostic line up on the coin (not a late die state, though). Thanks! --John
1830 50c pcgs vf35 O-106(color is actually light grey)
Mozin said: "Some diagnostics for Small 0 1830 O-101 R1: Obverse: Stars are sharp, and star 1 points between dentils. Reverse: “A” in “STATES” is recut showing at left, its inside triangular space is partially filled at left, and second “T” is low. “50C” is well centered, and “5” has a straight top and open curl. Right side of “I” under left side of “T”. "
Cool! Again, very fun seeing the diagnostics line up to distinguish this die marriage. Thanks again!
To which part does the "open curl" in the five refer? Comparing only the images in this O-101 with images in the O-106 in the previous post...Do BOTH the O-101 and O-106 have "open curl" fives, while the O-101 has the flat top five and the O-106 has the curved top five?
(Their "5" curls are different, but are these differences useful as diagnostics? 1) the O-101 shows a straight edge on the inside of the five's curl, compared to the O-106's curved inside edge. And 2) the ball at the bottom of the curl sits cleanly on the end of the curl in O-101, whereas on the O-106 it sits there with a little fill to the right, where the ball meets the curl. But do those features have anything to do with an open curl?)
So you're going to make me learn about the curl myself?
The fever is tempting me, especially with the bunches of hundred-dollar-range busties in VF that seem to be everywhere on dealer sites and the B/S/T. I have inklings to find all the different 1830 (and a few other) Overtons around in that price range! "NSF" is the remedy for now. As for later...well, is the fever all that bad?
<< <i>So you're going to make me learn about the curl myself?
The fever is tempting me, especially with the bunches of hundred-dollar-range busties in VF that seem to be everywhere on dealer sites and the B/S/T. I have inklings to find all the different 1830 (and a few other) Overtons around in that price range! "NSF" is the remedy for now. As for later...well, is the fever all that bad? >>
It is wonderful......BUT very expensive. I think that finding nice, problem free CBH's in the VF range is a REALLY smart thing to do, they can still be had for a bargain. These coins have gotten a lot more popular and in the TRUE EF-AU grades, they are price fully is seems. Good luck, and for the records, Mozin is a really good guy to go to for help....nice, smart, and the owner of one awesome collection.
And thanks too, JRocco. I appreciate your perspective. -- I wonder if the "material weakening of the classics market" this year is real or will continue, but that's a topic in another thread today!
For anybody, referencing fourth post above, can you clarify the O-101's "open curl five"? (I don't have a book yet!)
Is the curl simply the bottom half of the five, or is it the finial on the end of the curve?
So does an O-106 have an open curl too? (I have a feeling the answers will be obvious, but I'll risk asking a stupid question!)
I believe that you could call both the O-101's and O-106's 5's as "open."
...but the O-101's 5 has a straight top. The O-106's 5's top is not straight.
Also notice the relationship between the 50 C. on both coins to the claws and the tip of the olive branch above it.
Notice that the 5 on the O-106 appears to lean more to the right.
SIDE NOTE: ...and of course you need the O/P book to do this, but I compare the relationship of the tip of the olive branch to the C below it WITH the plate coin photos in the O/P book. This doesn't always attribute the coin, but it sure may eliminate some of the possibilities.
Here's my pickup from the MSNS show in Dearborn, MI. yesterday (Friday). Also, picked up a counterstamped 1824 O-113b (Ex-Mike Marker)
Edgar
P.S. holeinone1972, Like your piece above!
1830, O-108, R3. 18 in date higher than 30 with the 8 recut. Shield lines (of stripe 6) through and below the main outside shield line are visible in the image below. Die crack is visible above UNITED.
It has been a long time since we have seen a post in this thread. I just received this one in the mail today, after having it held for me for nearly four months. This marriage has not been shown before.
Some diagnostics for 1830 Small 0 O-110a R5: (Marriage is R3.)
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. 18 is higher than 30, and the date is 18.30 Punctuated Date. The hair curl forms a point in the space beneath TY in LIBERTY. In this LDS, a crack joins stars 4 through 7, and some specimens show patches of die rust.
Reverse: A in STATES shows a triangular defect inside the triangular center. Tall M is higher than A and E. Crossbars extend into right wing. 50 C is high. Tall open 5 has a straight pointed top. In this LDS, there are patches of die rust. I is centered under the left side of T.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
Comments
Welcome to the CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series.
Compare your coin with the 1830 O-111 MikeKing showed us early in this thread. He has a high grade coin along with very nice pictures.
Some diagnostics for Small 0 1830 O-117 R2:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower half of dentil. Star 7 points to upper half of dentil, and to junction of curl and headband. (Obverse shared with O-118.)
Reverse: “5” is recut, showing left of upright. Line 1 of stripe 1, and line 3 of stripe 5, extend upwards too far. Left sides of “I” and “T” are in line.
Of the 23 separate 1830 die marriages only 2 die marriages are considered very scarce and 1 is considered rare.
The O-112 is rated by the Bust Half Nut Club as having a R4+ rarity which makes it very scarce, but puts it almost into the rare category.
The obverse die used to strike this die marriage was Obv. die 6-s2. Obverse die 6 was used immediately prior to strike the O-111. It was renamed 6-s2 because die had begun to show wear with the stars partly drawn to the edge for the striking of the O-112.
The reverse die used to strike this die marriage was Rev. die E. Reverse die E was a strong work horse die used later to stike the O-105 immediately after the O-112 and the O-110 later in the year.
Quick identifiers for this die marriage:
(1) Star 7 is closer than usual to the headband.
(2) The IBE in LIBERTY has been recut with the earlier cutting just inside the left-most margins of the letters.
(3) On the reverse the 5 is tall, open, and has a straight pointed top.
(4) The base of the M is higher than the adjoining A and E on both sides.
(5) The right side of the D is in line with the left side of E.
Photos of the 1830 O-112, R4+:
*******************
The Late Die State of the same as the Early Die State except that all stars are solidly drawn to the edge and a die chip (break?) partly fills the upper loop of the 3.
Photos of the 1830 O-112a, R4+: The coin pictured is ex Jules Reiver collection
Some diagnostics for Medium 0 1830 O-119 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points between dentils. This is the only Medium 0.
Reverse: “A” in “STATES” is filled at top. Crossbar section of shield is flatly struck, crossbars nearly filled. “I” is centered under left side of “T”.
This die marriage was struck using Obversie die 4 and Reverse die G. This was the only use of these dies.
There are possibly three quick indentifiers for this die marriage.
(1) On the obverse some of these specimens show recutting along the top of the bottom serifs of the 1. In my photos this recutting cannot be seen on the EDS, but it can be seen on the top of left bottom serif of the 1 on the IDS.
(2) On the obverse most of these specimens show double profiling. On my photos the EDS is double profiled, the IDS is not.
(3) On the reverse ALL specimens show tines off the left corners of the shield. The most prominate is on lower left upper corner. This can be seen on my photos.
Photos of the 1830 O-107, R2:
**************
The Intermediate Die State (IDS) of the 1830 O-107 die marriage.
The coin I am showing is the Intermediate Die State because it only has 3 of the 4 diagnostic die cracks as diescribed in the O/P book for the Late Die State of this coin.
Most of the three die cracks are on my coin and marked with obnoxious little red arrows. By "most" I mean that they are not developed to the full extent as described in the O/P book.
The 4th die crack on the LDS and that is not present on my coin is the one from the edge above star 7 that runs into the front of the cap into the headband.
IF SOMEBODY HAS THE LATE DIE STATE OF THIS COIN WITH THE COMPLETE DIE CRACKS, PLEASE POST IT IN THE FORUM.
Photos of the IDS of the 1830 O-107a, R2:
Zap1111 showed his holy example of the O-114 on Page 1 of this Thread.
I am curious about Zap's rumored revised rarity rating to a R4+. "Word on the street...," I believe he says.
The O/P Book and the Bust Half Nut Club still report it as R5 with 47 to 63 pieces estimated to exist. (This is not to be confused with the R5- and R5+ ratings.)
Edgar Souders in "Bust Half Fever II" makes the statement: "...with only about 29 examples (in all grades) reported."
IF ANYONE HAS ANY FURTHER INFORMATION ON THE "TRUE" RARITY, PLEASE POST IT ON THE FORUM.
This is still a tough die marriage to find.
The obverse die used to strike this die marriage is Obverse die 7-s2. Obverse die 7-s2 is the same as Obverse die 7 which was used previously to strike O-113. The die for the O-114 striking was renamed 7-s2 because of this stage in its usage the stars are partly drawn to the edge and the die chip in the upper part of the 3 has now formed a notch. It is interesting to note that the O-114 was struck approximately halfway through calendar year 1830. Whereas the O-113 was the first Half Dollar struck in 1830.
Late die states of the O-113 also show the die chip in the upper knob of the 3. Here are photos of the 3's in both die marriages:
Compare these die chipped 3's with the die chip in the 3 of the LDS O-115 struck with Obverse die 8 later in 1830:
************************************************************************
The reverse die used to strike this die marriage was Reverse die L. Reverse die L was previously used in the last half of 1828 to strike the scarce 1828 O-122 die marriage. This reverse die was named Reverse die S for the striking of the 1828 O-122.
Because this is the Large Letters Reverse the quick identifier for this die marriage is the running together of the D and the S on the reverse to read: UNITEDSTATES.
Another "double-check," of course, would be the notched 3.
Photos of my 1830 O-114, R5 Large Letters:
R - 3.
Obv. die 1
The Star 7 placement to the Headband and Curl are explained at the end.
But notice the difference on each die !
Rev. die B
Diagnostic characteristic is the small spike that protrudes from the Eagle's body at the juncture of the right wing.
Another is the 2 die gouges in the shield, right of stripe 4.
Top of "E" in UNITED is lower than the "T".
The T to I alignment is center of "T" , left side of "I".
You may be wondering about all the RED lines of these pictures?
These are reference lines for the Obverse, star 7 to the clasp and
Reverse, Scroll Ends and the Upright of 5 in relation to the Claws.
Each is Unique to it's die !
Call it a FINGERPRINT !
Another great job describing the marriage. I just learned I have a program where I can draw the red lines and arrows. Maybe I need to go back and alter some of my Bustie picture posts to include some more red color.
Not a problem in Bust Halves.
To many Bust Half specialists this makes the coin more desireable.
The reverse on your 1830 displays clashing below the right wing, very common throughout the CBH series.
There is a double profile showing in the field left of the face and neck, somewhat common in 1830. The obverse left field appears to have a die scratch line left of Miss Liberty's throat, also common in various locations both obverse and reverse. The many marks on the neck and in the field by the die line are probably from a rust pitted die and file marks in an attempt to remove the pitting from the die---if the marks are raised. If the marks are indented, then the marks are not mint caused. Rusty dies were often used in the early years, not normally seen in later years of the series. This field area might display some clashing from the upper left wing feathers, if these curved design marks are raised..
Anyone think this is O-104 R3?
...looks like Mr. Mozin can cross this off his missing die marriage photo list.
Obviously a Late Die State O-104 with the stars drawn to the edge. You can still barely make out the star to dentil relationship.
This coin must have been in the last "batch" of O-104 strikes made before Reverse die D was removed from the screw press and retired.
They then matched up used Reverse die E with the already installed Obverse die 2 to strike the O-105.
***
My DSL finally came back on after a 6-1/2 hour hiatus.
I am so very pleased to be back in the Happy World of Busties.
I felt lost in a desert, alone, and very bored all morning.
I was, for THAT time, forced to do "real work" and Honey Do's. It was not fun.
AL
Some diagnostics for Large 0 1830 O-120 R1:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Star 7 points to upper edge of dentil, and to junction of curl and headband. Stars are large, with blunt points. “0” is large and high.
Reverse: All stripes, except the first one, have one line extending upwards too far. Lines 2 & 3 of stripe 1 are joined. Right side of “I” is under left side of “T”. (Reverse shared with O-121.)
Edgar
This is one of the four 1830 DM's with the Large 0.
The obverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse die 13. This was the only use of this obverse die.
The reverse of this die marriage was struck using Obverse die R. This was the first of two uses of this reverse die. The die was again used later in calendar year 1830 to strike the O-120.
Quick identifiers of this die marriage:
(1) The stars on the left are usually flat.
(2) The numerals 830 in the date are progressively higher. (On the O-120 the 8 & 3 are horizontally placed with the 0 being higher.)
(3) The letters in AMERICA are evenly placed.
The coin I will show you is a "special one." Either you will like it or you would prefer one in a different conditon.
My coin is an Early Die State with die lines above the cap. Also, because it is an EDS, there are no reverse centering dots.
Also my coin was struck on a flawed planchet. The planchet flaw can be plainly seen running through the curls and at Star 8.
My 1830 O-121, R3:
Obverse Scan
Reverse Scan
Yes, you have the 1830 O-117, R2.
Thank you for sharing.
Regards,
Ed R.
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
This die marriage was struck towards the middle of calendar year 1831 using Obverse Die 5 and Reverse Die H.
Obverse Die 5 is one of the workhorse dies of the 1830 Busties. It was first used to strike the 1830 O-110, R3. The 1830 O-110 was the last 1830 die marriage struck in the calendar year 1830.
As the calendar year 1831 began, 1830 Obv. Die 5, still in usable condition, was put to the side – possibly for future “emergency use.” Four 1831 die marriages would be struck before it would be necessary to bring 1830 Obv. Die 5 back into service. This is what apparently happened:
Upon completion of the striking of the 1831 O-103, R1 using Obv. Die 2 and Rev. Die C, both dies were completely removed from service. Because of the R1 rarity rating, it is reasonable to assume this was a large run of coins.
Quite possibly no new 1831 dated obverse dies were available for use when 1831 Obv. Die 2 was removed from service. At that time 1830 Obv. Die 5 is brought back into use to be mated with the new 1830 Rev. Die H. The Mint is now striking the 1830 O-108, R3 DM.
As soon as a new 1831 dated obverse die is ready, 1830 Obv. Die 5 is again removed from the screw press and put aside a second time for future “emergency use.” The new 1831 Obv. Die 11 is mated with the reverse die already in the press from the striking of the 1830 O-108. The Mint begins to strike the 1831 O-118, R3 using Obv. Die 11 and Rev. Die M. (1831 Rev. Die M is the same as 1830 Rev. Die H).
After the striking of the 1831 O-118, two more 1831 Busties would be struck – the 1831 O-119 and the O-120. It is during the striking of the 1831 O-120 that an “emergency” developed necessitating the need for the 1830 Obverse Die 5 again.
Shortly into the production of the 1831 O-120, R6, the obverse die buckled and cracked. This obverse die was removed from the press and 1830 Obverse Die 5 was put in its place to be mated with the reverse die already in place in the screw press.
This is the birth of the 1830 O-109 using Obv. Die 5 and Rev. Die I. This was the last use of Obv. Die 5. Rev. Die I would be used one more time to strike the 1831 O-107.
SIDENOTE TO MY SENARIO ABOVE: My scenario places the striking of the 1830 O-109 as the SECOND use of this specific reverse die. This follows the emission order in the Leaman/Gunnet treatise. The O/P book, in the diagnostics of the 1831 O-120, states for the striking of the 1830 O-109 it is the FIRST use of this reverse die. You be the judge.
Quick identifiers for this die marriage are:
(1) 18 is noticeably higher than 30
(2) All stars drawn to the edge (this is the last use of a worn die)
(3) The hair curl forms a point in the space between the T & Y of LIBERTY
(4) The four lower crossbars extend through the shield on the left
(5) The left side of D and E are in line
(6) The arrow shaft appears to be broken with a small knob just left of the second claw from the right
Photos of my 1830 O-109, R3:
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. Star 7 points to lower half of dentil, and to center of headband, barely above curl-headband junction. Star 13 points high up on curl.
Reverse: The first two "A's" are mostly filled inside their tops. "50C" is very large, and very high. Tail of "C" in "50C" is split near its end. Right sides of "I" and "T" are in line.
Note: If yours is indeed the O-106, AND it has a die crack from the edge between stars 11 & 12, running to curls, you have the a-die state R4. This can be a very faint crack and still qualify for the late die state >>
Mozin -- the diagnostics above led me to confirm O-106 for this piece, point for point. It was fun to see each diagnostic line up on the coin (not a late die state, though). Thanks! --John
1830 50c pcgs vf35 O-106 (color is actually light grey)
Mozin said: "Some diagnostics for Small 0 1830 O-101 R1:
Obverse: Stars are sharp, and star 1 points between dentils.
Reverse: “A” in “STATES” is recut showing at left, its inside triangular space is partially filled at left, and second “T” is low. “50C” is well centered, and “5” has a straight top and open curl. Right side of “I” under left side of “T”. "
Cool! Again, very fun seeing the diagnostics line up to distinguish this die marriage. Thanks again!
To which part does the "open curl" in the five refer? Comparing only the images in this O-101 with images in the O-106 in the previous post...Do BOTH the O-101 and O-106 have "open curl" fives, while the O-101 has the flat top five and the O-106 has the curved top five?
(Their "5" curls are different, but are these differences useful as diagnostics? 1) the O-101 shows a straight edge on the inside of the five's curl, compared to the O-106's curved inside edge. And 2) the ball at the bottom of the curl sits cleanly on the end of the curl in O-101, whereas on the O-106 it sits there with a little fill to the right, where the ball meets the curl. But do those features have anything to do with an open curl?)
1830 50c pcgs au53 O-101
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Be careful not to get Bust Half Dollar Fever. It gets very expensive.
The fever is tempting me, especially with the bunches of hundred-dollar-range busties in VF that seem to be everywhere on dealer sites and the B/S/T. I have inklings to find all the different 1830 (and a few other) Overtons around in that price range! "NSF" is the remedy for now. As for later...well, is the fever all that bad?
<< <i>So you're going to make me learn about the curl myself?
The fever is tempting me, especially with the bunches of hundred-dollar-range busties in VF that seem to be everywhere on dealer sites and the B/S/T. I have inklings to find all the different 1830 (and a few other) Overtons around in that price range! "NSF" is the remedy for now. As for later...well, is the fever all that bad?
It is wonderful......BUT very expensive.
I think that finding nice, problem free CBH's in the VF range is a REALLY smart thing to do, they can still be had for a bargain.
These coins have gotten a lot more popular and in the TRUE EF-AU grades, they are price fully is seems.
Good luck, and for the records, Mozin is a really good guy to go to for help....nice, smart, and the owner of one awesome collection.
And thanks too, JRocco. I appreciate your perspective. -- I wonder if the "material weakening of the classics market" this year is real or will continue, but that's a topic in another thread today!
For anybody, referencing fourth post above, can you clarify the O-101's "open curl five"? (I don't have a book yet!)
Is the curl simply the bottom half of the five, or is it the finial on the end of the curve?
So does an O-106 have an open curl too? (I have a feeling the answers will be obvious, but I'll risk asking a stupid question!)
I believe that you could call both the O-101's and O-106's 5's as "open."
...but the O-101's 5 has a straight top. The O-106's 5's top is not straight.
Also notice the relationship between the 50 C. on both coins to the claws and the tip of the olive branch above it.
Notice that the 5 on the O-106 appears to lean more to the right.
SIDE NOTE: ...and of course you need the O/P book to do this, but I compare the relationship of the tip of the olive branch to the C below it WITH the plate coin photos in the O/P book. This doesn't always attribute the coin, but it sure may eliminate some of the possibilities.
Regards,
Ed R.
Sheridan's site
BUST HALF FEVER second printing will soon be available from the author Edgar Souders (FEVER on CU) at esouders@chartermi.net
Edgar
1830, O-121
<< <i>
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series, but Ed62's coin is posted in the wrong year thread.
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FEVER,
Nice chocolate.
Welcome to our CU Lettered Edge Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Your O-115 R2 has some attractive rim toning.
Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
Collect raw morgans, walkers, mercs, SLQ, barber q. Looking at getting into earlier date coins pre 1900s.
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Your Bustie "might" be O-121 R3. Someone will likely check for certain.
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bigtime36,
Welcome to our Bust Half series. You are member 148.
<< <i>eyoung429,
Welcome to our CU Capped Bust Half Dollar series. Your Bustie "might" be O-121 R3. Someone will likely check for certain.
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bigtime36,
Welcome to our Bust Half series. You are member 148. >>
Earl, (eyoung429) I think your Bustie is actually 101. an R-1 DM.
And I agree with Mozin about holeinone1972's colorful O-115, a pretty AU!
Mike...
Edgar
P.S. holeinone1972, Like your piece above!
1830, O-108, R3. 18 in date higher than 30 with the 8 recut. Shield lines (of stripe 6) through and below the main outside shield line are visible in the image below. Die crack is visible above UNITED.
Thanks for showing a yummy Bustie in a marriage we were missing.
Some diagnostics for 1830 Small 0 O-110a R5: (Marriage is R3.)
Obverse: Star 1 points to lower edge of dentil. 18 is higher than 30, and the date is 18.30 Punctuated Date. The hair curl forms a point in the space beneath TY in LIBERTY. In this LDS, a crack joins stars 4 through 7, and some specimens show patches of die rust.
Reverse: A in STATES shows a triangular defect inside the triangular center. Tall M is higher than A and E. Crossbars extend into right wing. 50 C is high. Tall open 5 has a straight pointed top. In this LDS, there are patches of die rust. I is centered under the left side of T.
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com