<< <i>Jerry, who would you rather have(honestly) Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
That's not the point - the purpose of the award is for one thing only. Best defense. Not "who's the better all around player" - just simply, who played the best defense at a given position during the season?
And, sorry guys - that person is not named Derek Jeter. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. >>
On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter?
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i> On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
Who would you rather have, topps, defensively speaking? I know you're going to say jeter, so I'll preface it with this: why would you choose him over Gonzalez?
<< <i> On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
Who would you rather have, topps, defensively speaking? I know you're going to say jeter, so I'll preface it with this: why would you choose him over Gonzalez? >>
On defense, I'd choose Jete for the simple fact that he's consistent and always seems to be involved with the gamechanging play. Also, Jete has a higher lifetime fielding% than Gonzalez. If I was to name someone besides the two, in which I'd prefer it'd be Orlando Cabrera.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
I personally think that the Gold Glove awards should not be voted on by anyone, it should in fact, be based on what your actual fielding percentage is compared to others at their respective position. You need a certain number of ABs to qualify for a batting title, and you should need a certain number of chances to qualify for a Gold Glove award, and then you go from there! Keep in mind, I saw two Tigers win a Gold Glove award, but stats are stats, and percentages are percentages! How wrong am I to feel that way?.........to some, very wrong!
<< <i> On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
Who would you rather have, topps, defensively speaking? I know you're going to say jeter, so I'll preface it with this: why would you choose him over Gonzalez? >>
On defense, I'd choose Jete for the simple fact that he's consistent and always seems to be involved with the gamechanging play. Also, Jete has a higher lifetime fielding% than Gonzalez. If I was to name someone besides the two, in which I'd prefer it'd be Orlando Cabrera. >>
Well, you are just plain crazy then - and I know Jeter rules all time, space, and dimension for Yankee fans regardless of statistical evidence - but your reasoning makes no sense.
Consistent? Yes, Jeter is a consistently average to below average fielder, year in and year out. Is this just my Sox-fan-who-hates-overrated-Jeter opinion? No, the stats bear this out. You know, stats? Those numbers that measure how a player performs on the field?
Involved with the game changing play? What the heck does that mean? It sounds like a politician who has to give an answer to something without really answering it. I give you credit for some nice double talk, but Jeter makes no more "game changing" plays than Juan Uribe or any other SS in baseball. It looks like he makes dramatic plays on occasion because his range is so bad. That play from 4 years ago that makes Yankee fans weak in the knees, where Jeter dove out of control into the stands catching a foul ball is a perfect example. Gonzalez, or a better defensive SS than Jeter, would have been camped out under the fly ball waiting to catch it - and would not need to run recklessly after it, and then hurl himself into the stands because his momentum could not be stopped. Many times, you see Jeter make that "hop-throw" over to first, and it looks very dramatic, but he does that because his range is not as good as it should be, and he has to do that just to make a routine play.
This one is too easy. Jeter is not a Gold Glove caliber SS. He may walk on water in NY, but in the rest of the country, fans see him as he really is.
<< <i> That play from 4 years ago that makes Yankee fans weak in the knees, where Jeter dove out of control into the stands catching a foul ball is a perfect example. Gonzalez, or a better defensive SS than Jeter, would have been camped out under the fly ball waiting to catch it - and would not need to run recklessly after it, and then hurl himself into the stands because his momentum could not be stopped. This one is too easy. Jeter is not a Gold Glove caliber SS. He may walk on water in NY, but in the rest of the country, fans see him as he really is. >>
Jerry, I love ya buddy. But your responses just get worse and worse. I am getting the feeling that you really don't watch much baseball. Really I am. Do you even have a clue how far Jeter ran for that ball? As that ball was DOWN the line. You make it sound like it was off third base or something LOL?
And, no, the "rest" of the country certainly DO NOT share your wacked out view of Jeter. Nope ...... and Gonzalez is not even a dingle berry in Jeters a$$
Jeter just can't win here. he wins a hitting award (Aaron) by virtue of a fan vote. And we hear it is meaningless cuz fans did the voting. I am sure he got some votes outside of NY. Then he wins a gold glove (where mgrs. and coaches do the voting) and we hear that it too is meaningless cuz Palmiero won once and only played 17 games at the pos. Like that matters. he then is called a mediocre ss, then an average-to below average one by so called experts on a message bd. When and if he wins the MVP what are we going to hear then? That the voters (sportswriters) have no clue? Maybe the so called experts here should have voiced an opinion when they could have and voted (Aaron award) and maybe somone else would have won.
Also, Jeter won the ROY 10 years ago, had we been here then would we have heard all this too? I'm sure to the usual suspects he was undeserving of that too.
The guy has deserved every award he has ever won. Yes, at times circumstances have gone his way, but, the bottom line is he is super star.
The negative replies keep getting wackier and wackier.
<< <i>I am a fan of quantifiable measures as much as anyone in all walks of life. But there are SO many problems with what you propose. First off, lets say that a given SS is able to turn more double plays than the SS with the highest fielding percentage, who might have the given SS by .001. Or for that matter that given SS is able to get to more ground balls, which would lead to more outs.
Think about outfielders who mostly have very few errors during the course of a season. However, if you wanted to inject the idea of putouts, that doesn't work well either. The best RFs often times don't even have the opportunity to throw out base runners because they don't dare test their arm in the first place. Those are usually your best RFs. The ones that rarely have to do anything because people fear their arm strength. Since runners are not inclined to try for the third often times when they might against other RFs, the RF with the really strong arm probably saves several runs through the course of a year. Yet that shows up on no statistic, nor does it help their percentage. However other players and coaches would defintely want that RF to play on their team because they know he's the best, all else being equal. >>
That's an excellent point, and missing it is very common. Total Baseball does a ranking of players based only on their statisics and once rated Johnny Bench as the worst defensive catcher who ever played. That sounds silly, and it is, but it's an example of what you get if you rely too much on defensive statistics. Bench threw out fewer runners than just about any catcher in history after his rookie season - because only the very best baserunners tried to run on him after that. So he had very few assists and his pitching staff didn't get many strikeouts so he had fewer putouts than most catchers.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
<< <i>The guy has deserved every award he has ever won. >>
That's just it - and I'm done here after this post - he didn't win one, single, solitary, lousy fielding category. Yet, he is the "best" fielder? You guys don't see that?
Maybe you don't. In that case, I'm not sure what else to say.
he didn't win one, single, solitary, lousy fielding category.
Jery you seem to not care that he need not win one, single, solitary, lousy fielding category to win the gold glove. It is not in the criteria.
How many other guys are in the same boat this year? I'm sure if A Red Sox won a gold glove in the same manner you would have NO problem. Give the guy his due.
In previous years?
You think jeter is the first guy to win a gold glove w/o leading in any fielding category??
Edited to add: just checked, and Jason Varitek won the GG in 05 and HE DID NOT lead the league in any defensive categories (for catchers) so was he undeserving as well?
No, it is not required that a Gold Glove winner lead in every category; it is not even absolutely required that he lead in ANYthing. But when the winner gets smoked in EVERYthing by another player at his position, I'm not buying the argument that the folks who vote on these things know something we don't know. I will buy the much simpler and more likely explanation that they are voting for the guy who won it the year before because that saves them the time it would take to actually think about their vote before voting.
For 2006, Michael Young played 5 more games at SS than Jeter, made 27 more putouts, 112 more assists, 32 more double plays, and for all that made one less error. Now the comparison of Young to a few others isn't as dramatic as that, and I'm willing to listen to an argument that one of those others may have deserved the award, but I just don't buy that there are enough intangibles in the world to make up the enormous statistical chasm between Young and Jeter this year.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Jerry, who would you rather have(honestly) Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
That's not the point - the purpose of the award is for one thing only. Best defense. Not "who's the better all around player" - just simply, who played the best defense at a given position during the season?
And, sorry guys - that person is not named Derek Jeter. I'm not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. >>
On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter?
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
No question. Defensively speaking, Gonzalez.
<< <i>
On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
Who would you rather have, topps, defensively speaking? I know you're going to say jeter, so I'll preface it with this: why would you choose him over Gonzalez?
<< <i>
<< <i>
On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
Who would you rather have, topps, defensively speaking? I know you're going to say jeter, so I'll preface it with this: why would you choose him over Gonzalez? >>
On defense, I'd choose Jete for the simple fact that he's consistent and always seems to be involved with the gamechanging play. Also, Jete has a higher lifetime fielding% than Gonzalez. If I was to name someone besides the two, in which I'd prefer it'd be Orlando Cabrera.
Mark Mulder rookies
Chipper Jones rookies
Orlando Cabrera rookies
Lawrence Taylor
Sam Huff
Lavar Arrington
NY Giants
NY Yankees
NJ Nets
NJ Devils
1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Looking for Topps rookies as well.
References:
GregM13
VintageJeff
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
On defense, who would you rather have for your team; Alex Gonzalez or Derek Jeter? >>
Who would you rather have, topps, defensively speaking? I know you're going to say jeter, so I'll preface it with this: why would you choose him over Gonzalez? >>
On defense, I'd choose Jete for the simple fact that he's consistent and always seems to be involved with the gamechanging play. Also, Jete has a higher lifetime fielding% than Gonzalez. If I was to name someone besides the two, in which I'd prefer it'd be Orlando Cabrera. >>
Well, you are just plain crazy then - and I know Jeter rules all time, space, and dimension for Yankee fans regardless of statistical evidence - but your reasoning makes no sense.
Consistent? Yes, Jeter is a consistently average to below average fielder, year in and year out. Is this just my Sox-fan-who-hates-overrated-Jeter opinion? No, the stats bear this out. You know, stats? Those numbers that measure how a player performs on the field?
Involved with the game changing play? What the heck does that mean? It sounds like a politician who has to give an answer to something without really answering it. I give you credit for some nice double talk, but Jeter makes no more "game changing" plays than Juan Uribe or any other SS in baseball. It looks like he makes dramatic plays on occasion because his range is so bad. That play from 4 years ago that makes Yankee fans weak in the knees, where Jeter dove out of control into the stands catching a foul ball is a perfect example. Gonzalez, or a better defensive SS than Jeter, would have been camped out under the fly ball waiting to catch it - and would not need to run recklessly after it, and then hurl himself into the stands because his momentum could not be stopped. Many times, you see Jeter make that "hop-throw" over to first, and it looks very dramatic, but he does that because his range is not as good as it should be, and he has to do that just to make a routine play.
This one is too easy. Jeter is not a Gold Glove caliber SS. He may walk on water in NY, but in the rest of the country, fans see him as he really is.
<< <i> That play from 4 years ago that makes Yankee fans weak in the knees, where Jeter dove out of control into the stands catching a foul ball is a perfect example. Gonzalez, or a better defensive SS than Jeter, would have been camped out under the fly ball waiting to catch it - and would not need to run recklessly after it, and then hurl himself into the stands because his momentum could not be stopped. This one is too easy. Jeter is not a Gold Glove caliber SS. He may walk on water in NY, but in the rest of the country, fans see him as he really is. >>
Jerry, I love ya buddy. But your responses just get worse and worse. I am getting the feeling that you really don't watch much baseball. Really I am. Do you even have a clue how far Jeter ran for that ball? As that ball was DOWN the line. You make it sound like it was off third base or something LOL?
And, no, the "rest" of the country certainly DO NOT share your wacked out view of Jeter. Nope ...... and Gonzalez is not even a dingle berry in Jeters a$$
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Also, Jeter won the ROY 10 years ago, had we been here then would we have heard all this too? I'm sure to the usual suspects he was undeserving of that too.
The guy has deserved every award he has ever won. Yes, at times circumstances have gone his way, but, the bottom line is he is super star.
The negative replies keep getting wackier and wackier.
Steve
edit: typo
<< <i>I am a fan of quantifiable measures as much as anyone in all walks of life. But there are SO many problems with what you propose. First off, lets say that a given SS is able to turn more double plays than the SS with the highest fielding percentage, who might have the given SS by .001. Or for that matter that given SS is able to get to more ground balls, which would lead to more outs.
Think about outfielders who mostly have very few errors during the course of a season. However, if you wanted to inject the idea of putouts, that doesn't work well either. The best RFs often times don't even have the opportunity to throw out base runners because they don't dare test their arm in the first place. Those are usually your best RFs. The ones that rarely have to do anything because people fear their arm strength. Since runners are not inclined to try for the third often times when they might against other RFs, the RF with the really strong arm probably saves several runs through the course of a year. Yet that shows up on no statistic, nor does it help their percentage. However other players and coaches would defintely want that RF to play on their team because they know he's the best, all else being equal. >>
That's an excellent point, and missing it is very common. Total Baseball does a ranking of players based only on their statisics and once rated Johnny Bench as the worst defensive catcher who ever played. That sounds silly, and it is, but it's an example of what you get if you rely too much on defensive statistics. Bench threw out fewer runners than just about any catcher in history after his rookie season - because only the very best baserunners tried to run on him after that. So he had very few assists and his pitching staff didn't get many strikeouts so he had fewer putouts than most catchers.
<< <i>The guy has deserved every award he has ever won. >>
That's just it - and I'm done here after this post - he didn't win one, single, solitary, lousy fielding category. Yet, he is the "best" fielder? You guys don't see that?
Maybe you don't. In that case, I'm not sure what else to say.
<< <i>Gonzalez is not even a dingle berry in Jeters a$$ >>
Perhaps not - but he's a better fielder, and has been one, for his entire career.
Jery you seem to not care that he need not win one, single, solitary, lousy fielding category to win the gold glove. It is not in the criteria.
How many other guys are in the same boat this year? I'm sure if A Red Sox won a gold glove in the same manner you would have NO problem. Give the guy his due.
In previous years?
You think jeter is the first guy to win a gold glove w/o leading in any fielding category??
Edited to add: just checked, and Jason Varitek won the GG in 05 and HE DID NOT lead the league in any defensive categories (for catchers) so was he undeserving as well?
Steve
For 2006, Michael Young played 5 more games at SS than Jeter, made 27 more putouts, 112 more assists, 32 more double plays, and for all that made one less error. Now the comparison of Young to a few others isn't as dramatic as that, and I'm willing to listen to an argument that one of those others may have deserved the award, but I just don't buy that there are enough intangibles in the world to make up the enormous statistical chasm between Young and Jeter this year.