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How about an 1893 Proof Morgan...
SkyMan
Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here's a proof Morgan in an old rattler I picked up about 1990. The white flecks you see on the obverse and reverse fields (for example in front of Liberty's mouth or by the arrowheads) are an artifact from imaging, they do not exist in reality. There is a very fine scratch (?) across the ear (one dealer surprised me by saying it was from a staple), and on the reverse a small ding on the breast. Other than those two things it is very clean. It is graded PCGS PR65. While I'm mainly posting it because it's a pretty coin that I'm happy to own and wish to share, and (the good Lord willing) have no intention of selling anytime soon, do you think it is worthwhile to try and upgrade to a 66? I realize it is very hard to grade a proof by images. Anyhow, I hope you enjoy the coin.
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Gorgeous coin!
">"http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
leave it be. someone would probably pay more for it in the plastic it is currently in should you decide to sell.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I agree with what has been said. Why give the plastic companies more money for your coin. The coin won't know the difference-only your bank account goes down relative to the plastic companies going up.
When you do decide to sell her, you can sell her on her own merits or at that time play the plastic game. By then, plastic standards will change anyway
Nice coin.
The "mark" on the ear is not a post-strike contact mark, in my opinion.
It is likely a small planchet crease that didn't get completely struck out
due to it being right on a high (low pressure) point on the coin.
Same for the reverse mark.
It all comes down to the number of tiny hairlines on the coin not visible in the photos. Back in the early days of PCGS if a coin had a single obvious hairline, it was tough to get a 66 grade. Today you can get a 67 or 68 with one obvious hairline.
Worth a considerable premium over 65CAM money just as it sits.
The downside exists should it only come back a 65 first time out.
I find that coins like this at auction bring the next grade or 1-1/2 grades up just as they sit. Everyone knows the coin is fresh and they start seeing $$ signs by being the high bidder. It only takes 2 geniuses out of a 100 to get the same cost as an upgrade. Considering how few of these are probably left in first gen holders, I'd stick it out and let the supply of those get smaller and smaller.
Congrats on having one of these old time holdered stunners as so few of us can state that any more. Probably dipped once and some toning come back on the peripherals.
roadrunner
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
In the old days it would not have graded any higher because of the minor cloudiness in the fields, especially the obverse. But today the grading services seem to ignore cloudy as well as toning that has gone too far and to the point of killing the luster.
Cloudiness does not dip off, and in fact can be caused by dipping.
Don’t get me wrong. This is a really nice coin, but it’s not a candidate for a “wonder coin” grade, which PR-66 and above implies.
near perfect 68 proof deep cameos!!
This is such a nice coin, I'd tend to try to see what the NCS /NGC pros can do (and SAY!!)---instead of falling in love with the old plastic (rattler).
The thing is, I say that partly because it's a proof---- it's made to be a black-white monster. If it were a 1893 DMPL business stike from
from the Philly mint--I'd say leave it in right in that old rattler holder, and let lookers imagination run wild---
Actually I'd not sell it, but then there is always that other coin ya might fall in love with!!
roadrunner
This weekend the dealer next to me was offering a PCGS green label Barber Dime in PR-67. The coin had dark blue original toning, which had gone just a bit too far for the coin to be attractive IMO. It also had two long white hairlines that ran down the obverse. If they are had been on a PR-65, I would have said, "OK." But on on a PR-67, it was too much for me, even if it took a 10X to really see them.
But yes, I agree with you Roadrunner. A bit over a decade ago, a PR-65 was a nice coin. Today it can be pretty disappointing.
I think back to all the gem coins I put away from 1980 to 1987 prior to the grading services being fully geared and very few of the best coins I garthered made 66 or 67. Out of maybe 2 dozen top peices I recall one Barber half from an orig monster toned proof set making 66, an 1857-0 dime going 66 (purchased from NERCG as 67/70!) and my 1867-s quarter going MS66. That was it. 3 coins making 66. The vast majority of the others made 65. But no 67's. From my experiences, getting 66's back in the 1986-1988 era was about as good as you got....unless you were Dave Akers or Stacks and had pulled out that 1 in a 100 gem bust half. I still remember Mr. Eureka parading around a gem MS67 common date bust half at a show. It was one of the very first or the first busties to get that grade. I couldn't afford it either. Wonder what he ultimately got for that?
Back in the "old" days I was mostly quite satisfied with a coin graded MS/PF 66 or higher. I ran across very few of them.
One very important point. Coins back then were judged more for surfaces and luster than their color. A coin did not need great color or have to be stone white to get attention. Many steely blue-grey toned gem busties and seated coins traded hands with happy sellers and buyers. I was fine with many of those "too darkly" toned gem proofs back then. And so was 90% of the hobby. For whatever the reason the tide has been turned completely around (ie NCS and greed for starters) to demand pure white or monster toned ATish pieces. I have changed with the times as well and will not accept a too dark coin these days.
I recall an original 1893 quarter that my local dealer had in 1988.
It had been retained by the orig owner's family since plucking it from the mint in year of issue. It had been wrapped in tissue paper for most its life and annotated on the wrapper when it was purchased for 25c. When my dealer showed me the coin I was floored...esp with the orig wrapper. While it was a deep blue/black color it was gorgeous to me. The luster beamed thru the color. NGC saw fit to grade it 65 the first time through. I told my friend that I wouldn't settle for a 65 on it and could not buy it is such. He sort of agreed it seemed nicer as well. It was sent out again and came back a deserved MS66. I paid him something like $6500 for it. I wonder how that coin would be treated today? Might be lucky to just get a 66. PCGS might only 65. Progress?
roadrunner
Have a good one!
U.S. Type Set
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.