Rank the 1822 half eagle with the other major rarities

RYK

by how much you think it would be worth at auction, if the NNC coughed one up. My first reaction was that DW's estimate was on the high side, but I am way out of my league here.

Anyone else have any idea how it would compare to 1913 Lib nickels, 1933 Saints, 1885 Trade dollars, 1804 silver dollars and the like?

Longacre

I would bid $5 MM.

michael

with the juice

6 million maybe more

ziggy29

The 1822 $5 is rarer (in terms of known specimens) than any of the other pieces you listed (with the technical exception of the '33 Saint; there are at least 13 of those known, I think, but only one is legal to own).

But it doesn't have the "recognition" that owning a 1913 Lib nickel (which is the "coin" I think should be contraband, not the '33 Saint) or an 1804 dollar.

I would guess around $2-3 million easy -- maybe close to $5M with the juice.

guitarwes

I'd give it a 7.32 in rarity. Sounds like a good round number.

TheRaven

The 1933 Saint, 1804 Dollar and 1913 Nickel are special cases that are more known to the general public.....

To the numismatic community it is definiately in the next small group of coins that would be huge dollars (2.5 to 5 million).....

Aegis3

I would put it right after the 1804 and the 1913. As for price at auction, I'd guess somewhere between 4 and 6 million.

tradedollarnut

I should think it would easily exceed the price realized of the 1933 $20 [$7.6M]. As a point of reference, the price realized at the Eliasberg sale [$687,500 in 1982] was the highest price realized for any coin at auction at that time - by a large margin. The Dexter specimen of the original 1804 dollar realized just $280,000 a year earlier .... and is now worth $3M to $4M. The Hawaii 5-O [Hawn] specimen of the realized just $385,000 three years later ... and has a private sale price of $3M a few years ago.

Aegis3

<< <i>I should think it would easily exceed the price realized of the 1933 $20 [$7.6M]. As a point of reference, the price realized at the Eliasberg sale [$687,500 in 1982] was the highest price realized for any coin at auction at that time - by a large margin. The Dexter specimen of the original 1804 dollar realized just $280,000 a year earlier .... and is now worth $3M to $4M. The Hawaii 5-O [Hawn] specimen of the realized just $385,000 three years later ... and has a private sale price of $3M a few years ago. >>



Don't forget one of the Garrett Brasher doubloons at $725K in 1979. As for comparing the 1822 to the 1933 $20, I think the latter was a much more hypeable coin.

Baley

any coin with only 3 known is very very rare, isn't it?

I think that's quite a bit rarer than all the other famous rarities, which have 5, or 10, or more known.

why, with 3 known, the 1822 $5 has the same rarity as an 1807 O.115 half dollar~!

WoW!

lloydmincy

I agree with TDN.

boiler78

I agree with Lloyd

Leiana

I had never heard of it as a rarity until I got the Hundred Greatest US Coins book.

But I had heard all sorts of stuff about the 1804 dollar and the 1913 Liberty nickel and the EB doubloons.

-Amanda

BECOKA

I agree with whoever is right.

MrEureka

In terms of rarity and desirability, how does the 22 compare to the 53-O no arrows half dollar? How does it compare to the 73-CC no arrows dime? How about a silver Continental Dollar? An original Confederate half?

CharlotteDude

RYK,
$5M easily... and that's before the buyer's fee
I'd rank the 1822 at the top, as I'm partial gold, and definitely prefer the older renditions of Liberty (call it that old-time charm) to the newer, post-1906 examples.

CoinRaritiesOnline

Although I love early gold (it is one of our specialties), I think a more reasonable guess is $3-3.5 million.

MrEureka

How much would it matter if there were two 1822 half eagles in private hands instead of just one?

CoinRaritiesOnline

I think it would help the price, as it would be more "collectable".

MrEureka

I think it would help the price, as it would be more "collectable".

Dave - I don't know what you're smokin' but you need to take it to the Open Forum, pronto!

Edited to say:

My apologies. "Help the price" doesn't necessarily mean "increase the price".

PerryHall

Don't forget that this is a real coin struck for circulation unlike some of the major rarities that were struck for the collectors market.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>How much would it matter if there were two 1822 half eagles in private hands instead of just one? >>



It would matter - some. The Pogues would probably bid less on the second coin than if they needed it [they do buy duplicates, as you know]. However, I don't think it would matter as much as you are implying because their collection is tied up for a very long time and for all intents and purposes to this generation of collectors it's the same as if their coin was in a museum.

Opportunity is more important than price to many people. These days, condition rarities of rare coins are fetching over $1M .... the new ultra classic rarity level begins at $2.5M .... $5M is the beginning of the top level. Not much doubt in my mind that Winter's estimate was conservative.

RichieURich

<< <i>In terms of rarity and desirability, how does the 22 compare to the 53-O no arrows half dollar? How does it compare to the 73-CC no arrows dime? How about a silver Continental Dollar? An original Confederate half? >>



Well, let's consider availability:
1822 half eagle - - 3 known
1853-O NA half dollar - - 3 known
1873-CC NA dime - - 1 known
1776 Continental $ in silver - - 4 known
1861-O Original Confed. half - - 4 known

Desirability:
1822 half eagle - 4th rarest gold coin (tied w/ 1854-S half eagle, more than 1870S $3, 1849 $20 and 1861 Paquet $20), gold coin, legendary rarity.
1853-O NA half dollar - not as well known, 3rd rarest silver coin (1870-S half dime, 1873-CC NA dime), rarest O mint coin, popular series, last one found in 1911.
1873-CC NA dime - rarest silver coin (tied with 1870-S half dime), CC mint, popular series.
1776 Continental $ in silver - one of rarest Colonials, in silver, magical 1776 date, popular design.
1861-O Original Confederate half - CSA issue, historical, well-known rarity, Ford sale helped popularize this coin.

Does anyone have anything to add? (Hope so! )

Edit to include 1870-S $3.

PerryHall

RichieU Rich---Where does the 1870-S $3 gold fit into your list?

RichieURich

Good point, Perry Hall! I must have missed that one, revised post to fix this error. Thanks for pointing it out.

lloydmincy

What you guys should focus on with these rarities is whether it is collectable. My definition of collectable is - you can own it in private hands. Throw out the 1870-S $3. (If you WANT to include that, then throw IN the 1849 $20, 1877 Half Unions.... I could go on).

The 1822 is a classic rarity because it WAS issued for circulation, and its extinction came close simply due to melting and higher gold prices and/or gold prices in relation to silver during its "circulation days". Technically, there is ONE that is collectable.

It is also GOLD. There are those that are in a class by themselves collecting gold coins for their collection. Pricier, is the main thing. It is also in nicer condition than say, the 1853-O NA halves.

RichURich: I think your list is a good start, but you should add the 1793 "strawberry leaf" cent (4). But then, if we are (me) saying collectable, should we not throw in the 1851-O Dollar (1), 1866 No Motto Silver Dollar (2 known, one collectible), and one of the Kings - the JUDD 1776 Indian Head Double Eagle pattern (1)???

All this hypothetical about what ifs, is a waste of time. There IS NOT TWO 1822's in private hands, so speculation is futile.

I feel the Pogue 1822 $5 and the JUDD 1776 $20 pattern are easily the gold medal winners (no pun) for the most valuable major rarities in existence for COLLECTING. Both are unique, BOTH are in strong hands, and furthermore, offers to both parties in the 8 figures has been...


...turned down.

Cladiator

For the price of any one of those coins I'd take a 1792 Half Disme, an 1802 Half Dime and a nice fishing boat.

BillJones

The me the 1822 half eagle is a SUPER RARITY. Unlike the 1913 Liberty nickel and the 1804 dollar, among others, it is a REAL rarity that happened naturally. It was not something that was made just to sell to collectors.

Frankly I think the coin is worth several million although I would not think that it would break the $7 million record. It's a real rarity, but no enough is known to write a book about it.

PerryHall

<< <i>What you guys should focus on with these rarities is whether it is collectable. My definition of collectable is - you can own it in private hands. Throw out the 1870-S $3. (If you WANT to include that, then throw IN the 1849 $20, 1877 Half Unions.... I could go on). >>



Unless I'm mistaken, the 1870-S is in private hands unlike the others listed which are impounded in the Smithsonian Institute.

BillJones

Famous story - The Half Unions in gold were traded to U.S. mint in the teens for a couple trunk full of U.S. patter coins. The trade was struck between the mint and William Wooden, who would later be the secretary of the treasury during the early days of FDR's presidency.

There are gold plated ones in collector hands. I remember seeing them for sale at New York City coin shows in the 1970s.

tradedollarnut

<< <i>

<< <i>What you guys should focus on with these rarities is whether it is collectable. My definition of collectable is - you can own it in private hands. Throw out the 1870-S $3. (If you WANT to include that, then throw IN the 1849 $20, 1877 Half Unions.... I could go on). >>



Unless I'm mistaken, the 1870-S is in private hands unlike the others listed which are impounded in the Smithsonian Institute. >>



The owner of J-1776 has indeed turned down $10M for that pattern.

The 1870-S $3 is in the Bass Foundation collection - donated to the ANA.

This generation of collectors doesn't understand that the 1822 $5 is acknowledged as one of the greatest and most desirable rarities in American numismatics. I would bid $5M on the 1822 and I don't even collect gold. I am quite certain I would be outbid.

Bruceswar

Here is a photo of one I own..