Milk spots and die damage on RP ASE's

stev32k

I received ten of the 20th anniversary ASE sets and so far 6 of them have milk spots and die damage. When I first imaged them I thought the spots were on the plastic capsule and didn't notice the die damage. Upon closer inspection after taking the top of the capsule off I see several have what I would call severe milk spotting and less noticeable die damage on the obverse. None of them have the same problems on the reverse. In the shots below the spots are very visible, but look a little closer and you can see pitting on the neck, breast, and bottom of the skirt. The pictures are the same coin and it is the worst of the lot.

ABC123

The US Mint accepts returns for any and all reasons !

Weather11am

I HATE milk spots!

53BKid

Wow-very disappointing. You would think that the for celebration of 20th Anniversary Eagles, they might be a bit more concerned about quality control and not let these out this way...that is if anyone there cared.

Sorry that you're inconvenienced this way, and thanks for highlighting the problem.

fcloud

Well, now I know what mine will look like if they ever ship them---

CoinHusker

notwilight

<< <i>Wow-very disappointing. You would think that the for celebration of 20th Anniversary Eagles, they might be a bit more concerned about quality control and not let these out this way...that is if anyone there cared. Sorry that you're inconvenienced this way, and thanks for highlighting the problem. >>



You seen to have all the answers. Are you a retired CEO of a major corporation? Sounds like you've run outfits much bigger than the mint. It would be great if they put someone like you in charge to shape things up. --Jerry

garsmith

They stamped these out so fast to make a profit that there is gonna be a lot of crap coins with this issue! And look at all the people that are blind submitting that crap to get the first strike designation

notwilight

<< <i>They stamped these out so fast to make a profit that there is gonna be a lot of crap coins with this issue! And look at all the people that are blind submitting that crap to get the first strike designation >>



Why was the schedule compressed? Was there an event that kept them from starting in time to make these coins in a quality manner? Seems the 20th anniversary would be something easy to schedule? My point is that I think you're speculating without any basis...but if you have any facts to back up your ranting I'd like to hear them? --Jerry

stev32k

I've now photographed all ten reverse proofs and everyone of them has milk spots. Some are very small and it takes just the right light to see them, but they are there. Also the pits on the neck and skirt are also on all of them.

Has anyone else seem them or am I just very unlucky?

coinman420

has anybody else had coins arrive like this? they do look like cr@p. i guess i won`t be submitting mine sealed to PCGS.

Weather11am

On the contrary, atleast you got yours.

Julio

<< <i>

<< <i>Wow-very disappointing. You would think that the for celebration of 20th Anniversary Eagles, they might be a bit more concerned about quality control and not let these out this way...that is if anyone there cared. Sorry that you're inconvenienced this way, and thanks for highlighting the problem. >>



You seen to have all the answers. Are you a retired CEO of a major corporation? Sounds like you've run outfits much bigger than the mint. It would be great if they put someone like you in charge to shape things up. --Jerry >>



notwilight; Sounds to me like you wish to shoot the messenger. I've always cosidered that bad policy. jws

stev32k

Ten out of 250,000 is not a very large sample, but if I were PCGS I would be concerned about all those PR70's they have given out already. If the reverse proofs follow the same sequence as the regular proofs the milk spots will grow over time.

I sure would like to know if anyone else has seen them.

notwilight

No not at all. Steve32k brought us some great photos of a real issue. It will be very interesting to see how many others have the same problem. I haven't seen my coins yet as they are at PCGS in an unopened box (well, they probably opened it but I didn't). I'm sure anybody else who finds the same problem will post it to.

I'm just keeping people honest when they want to jump to conclusions without any facts.

As near as I can tell, this is a significant issue at an organization wide level. I have no idea what the root cause is but to conclude that you understand the problem without facts to support your conclusions will prevent ever understanding the real issue.

I hope we understand it eventually or at least the mint does and fixes it. IN the mean time, we can tabulate the extent of the problem is about all we have facts to support..

Cheers,
Jerry

Julio

<< <i>No not at all. Steve32k brought us some great photos of a real issue. It will be very interesting to see how many others have the same problem. I haven't seen my coins yet as they are at PCGS in an unopened box (well, they probably opened it but I didn't). I'm sure anybody else who finds the same problem will post it to.

I'm just keeping people honest when they want to jump to conclusions without any facts.

As near as I can tell, this is a significant issue at an organization wide level. I have no idea what the root cause is but to conclude that you understand the problem without facts to support your conclusions will prevent ever understanding the real issue.

I hope we understand it eventually or at least the mint does and fixes it. IN the mean time, we can tabulate the extent of the problem is about all we have facts to support..

Cheers,
Jerry >>



Jerry; understood. Thanks for the clarification. Take Care. jws

notwilight

Actually Steve identified 2 issues. The milk spots are my biggest concern but we may be able to discuss the die damage damage intelligently since this is something that is well understood.

Would we tend to believe that Steve's coins were struck after the die should have been changed or perhaps just lack of lubricant? Or could this be an issue with the planchet?

--Jerry

19Lyds

Dang! I guess there will be some PR66 First Strike Coins?

Needless to say, this is very disappointing from the mint. Not that I am unaware of milk spots on the SAE's but I was under the impression that the mint was addressing this issue!

I guess not!

stev32k

My sets were some of the first shipped. I received them on Oct. 12. so they should also have been some of the first struck. Unless the mint uses a first-in-last-out inventory system e.g. the first coins struck are on the bottom of the stack, the last on top, and shipping takes place from top to bottom.

stev32k

Here is the best of ten reverse proofs. I'm not sure the milk spots on this one would be visible in most photographs and I cannot see them with the naked eye, but they are there and so is the die damage (or pits or whatever).

Bear

We can only hope that the problems are resolved

for us folks receiving our sets in December. This is a

crying shame.

CollectorMan

Very sorry to hear about your ASE reverse proofs. After reading your thread, I pulled my four sets out to look them over again. I did not detect any (thank goodness). I was going to send some out to be graded, but I think now that I will use the one free grade PCGS is doing for members between now and the end of December to grade one reverse silver proof free of charge. I wonder about a lot of these being sent in that might ultimately display milk spots. That would be bad on those that grade 70, first strike or no first strike.

CollectorMan

MS70ORBUST

<< <i>

<< <i>They stamped these out so fast to make a profit that there is gonna be a lot of crap coins with this issue! And look at all the people that are blind submitting that crap to get the first strike designation >>



Why was the schedule compressed? Was there an event that kept them from starting in time to make these coins in a quality manner? Seems the 20th anniversary would be something easy to schedule? My point is that I think you're speculating without any basis...but if you have any facts to back up your ranting I'd like to hear them? --Jerry >>



Jerry, Great observation There seems to be many people who know everything and they dont know jack. LOL

Jdurg

<< <i>We can only hope that the problems are resolved

for us folks receiving our sets in December. This is a

crying shame. >>


Those problems will be resolved, but the coins will still be ruined as they get jostled around in the unsecured packaging and the capsules holding them break and scratch the coins and/or cause them to tone very fugly very soon.

ChuckC

No wonder that PR69 on ebay went for so much.

jrscoin

I received 5 sets and decided to open them. I found pits/nicks on every one of my reverse proofs.

There was a pit on every one of them obverse just left of the T on LIBERTY. Along with other nicks in other places.

Coins101

This pretty much seals the deal for me. I will be opening the box and taking a look before send any off to be graded.

BigE2

Wow. That bites. I hope they improve the quality before they ship mine!

Bochiman

<< <i>They stamped these out so fast to make a profit that there is gonna be a lot of crap coins with this issue! And look at all the people that are blind submitting that crap to get the first strike designation >>



Cool! I opened mine and they all look good...nothing like what poor Steve got.....
(good for me, sorry for him )

dlimb2

I just went through my 10 sets and all is well...They are PURDY...sorry to hear of yours Steve!

I might add all are from the same set of dies.

dlimb2

Steve, after looking at mine your looks like a step in the process is missing...it looks like they forgot to bead blast the planchet as it does not have the smooth matte finish...yours could be errors or die trials, Or then again worn out dies!

Bochiman

I just rechecked mine as well.
4 out of 5, with a 10x loupe, I couldn't see any issues (looked quickly, but still...)
1 out of 5 had a very small speck on it in the field. Couldn't see with the naked eye....only with the loupe and tilting in the light.

I'm happy with mine, sorry for those that didn't get good ones, and not sure if I am sorry, or not, for those that sent them in "sight-unseen", as PCGS requires, to get graded....if they have "bad" ones.
If, what Steve mentions is happening more, then I think those with really good ones will see values rise

stev32k

Here are shots of the best and worst of the ASEs taken using "normal" methods. The spots on the worst are visible, but just barely. I thought the best had a shot at PR70. Compare them to the earlier images. Notice the you cannot see the striations in the field, or the small pits in either of the last shots. The difference is I used mirror lock-up and different lighting in the first images to show up even more detail.

One can see faint spots on the worst coin even with the naked eye, but the pits on both are impossible to see even with an 8X loupe. The spots on the second one cannot be seen with the naked eye and with an 8X loupe I was still not sure if they were spots or just reflections.

INXS

You would think that since this started the Mint would have found the process that is causing this and changed it. Its not like this just started, then again maybe the Mint doesnt really care.

53BKid

Ut oh INXS; you have to be careful with what you say here... Jerry Notwilight, might castigate you for criticizing the mint without having first hand factual experience.

He seems to be an all-knowing defender of all that appears wrong at the mint, coming up with questions like: Do you really know first hand in fact whether the mint cares or not? Have you some sort of secret special access that the rest of us lack?

Its comforting to know that there are experts in the field who care so much to protect the mint's honor and reputation. This, despite the FACT that so many aspects of their premium coin program are so messed up.

stev32k

It's a little off topic, but does it look like Liberty's hand that is holding the branches is flipping you the bird?

JrGMan2004

<< <i>Wow-very disappointing. You would think that the for celebration of 20th Anniversary Eagles, they might be a bit more concerned about quality control and not let these out this way...that is if anyone there cared.

Sorry that you're inconvenienced this way, and thanks for highlighting the problem. >>

Keep in mind though, that often times, milk spots don't appear for days, weeks, months or years after the coin has been made, and sometimes it doesn't happen until the cap has been opened and the coin exposed to the elements...

dlimb2

Only thing I can say is either return them or try and wash them to see if the spots will come off...other wise If the first pictures do not depict the coins other than the spots, I think that you have some nice coins there...just the spot issue which can ruin the coins in time is the problem...maybe something can be done to stop the spotting.

JimDepot

I thought that the uncirculated coins were the only ones with the milk spot problem.

Thats why PCGS will not grade any as MS70.

Now it is happening to the proofs?

LanLord

Nothing like a thread about SAE quality issues to make for some spirited team hatred eh? Why can't we all just get along?

BTW. Those spots suck. It's an issue that seems like it's been around as long as the SAEs themselves (and actually longer - PROOFs from the early 60s have them too).

I have serious doubt that the problem will be worked out before December - but then someone is going to ask me how I happen to know so much about the problem that I can make that estimate - here is the answer, I don't so don't even F-ing ask! It's my opinion.

ricko

After a meticulous inspection, under high magnification, I am pleased to say that on my reverse proof (and the other two), there are NO milk spots and NO pitting ..... (maybe I have a 'first strike'? - who cares..) Sorry to hear of others misfortune.. I would return those .. I post this to let others know that not all the ASE's have problems. Cheers, RickO

renman95

<< <i>has anybody else had coins arrive like this? they do look like cr@p. i guess i won`t be submitting mine sealed to PCGS. >>



I must be lucky, no milk on my 10 RP's. I did have a nick here and there on 5. I sent my 5 best uncs and rp's to PCGS on friday the 20th and got a call from them this morning (23rd) at 0735 with a question about my golds. Pretty quick I'd say, since these are my 8 "free' submissions.

PerryHall

<< <i>I have serious doubt that the problem will be worked out before December - but then someone is going to ask me how I happen to know so much about the problem that I can make that estimate - here is the answer, I don't so don't even F-ing ask! It's my opinion. >>



I agree with you. If they haven't corrected this problem over the past several years that its been occuring, they sure aren't going to fix it in the next two months.

stev32k

I will be sending ten sets back for an exchange or refund. It is encouraging that no one else (so far) has seen the same problems. So maybe I'll get a few good ones.

bestday

<< <i>No wonder that PR69 on ebay went for so much. >>



Looks like a good PCGS REV PRF 69 will the star of the 2006 Anniv ASEs

Jcarney

<< <i>or try and wash them to see if the spots will come off >>



Milk spots are struck in, they will not wash off.

TwoSides2aCoin

ouch
I am sorry to see this. I've long contended there are big problems with quality control at the mint. And it starts with washing of the strips. The drying process must be pathetic. It seems to get worse every year, while the prices continue going up, the quality of some coinage goes down. contact the US MINT DIRECTOR, your congressmen, senators, representatives ......... tell them you're mad as hell and you're not gonna take it anymore

segoja

How many folks have received PF70 grades on their Reverse Proof Silver Eagles????

coasterfan

Of the ten sets I received, two RPs each had an obvious milk spot on the obverse. I've also noticed die damage on the reverse of the standard proof. There are spotty breaks in the frost on the shield and the eagle's neck, all in the same place. This occurred on five of the ten proofs. I returned two of these along with the milk spotted RPs.

Konahead

please say it is not so, milk spots suck

MrYuk

<< <i>They stamped these out so fast to make a profit that there is gonna be a lot of crap coins with this issue! And look at all the people that are blind submitting that crap to get the first strike designation >>