Looking for THE Morgan key date.Which is it?

mcgrover

I'm not a dollar collector - mostly I like and know about Lincoln cents. But lately, I've been focusing on key date coins of any denomination - not that I have them all yet, like1877 IHC, '21D Walker, '16D dime, '27S SL, '26S nickel and others that are key, or even semi-key, but not only are rare now, but have the potential to get more rare. Value has something to do with this. My question is : what would be the Morgan dates which fit into this key type set? Condition is not critical, but AGs are not acceptable, a G may be, but VG and up is what I need. I also need the coin slabbed by the top 3 or 4 TPGs. I can usually find $2000 as my limit, but can stretch if absolutely necessary. The Morgan series is so huge I'm lost just looking at a price list. I'm looking for some insight and it seems there are more Morgan experts than Lincoln experts. Regards, Mike

Cam40

`the` key-date morgan?
1893 S?
1895 P?
1889 CC?
1879 CC?
1884 S?
there are a few but which one is `the` key....

in the words of dpoole ` this is what the coin forum is allll about`

morgannut2

Guessing the future prices of certain Morgan mint/datemarks is about as speculative as throwing darts at a page

of the Wall Street Journal. , to pick future stock prices!!! First I'd stick to cents , but if you insist---------------.

An obvious thing to notice; if you look at the Heritage auction lists each month; is that "accepted" "keys" like the1893S and 1894-P

have literally PAGES of examples listed, although many dozens of coins listed ae also impaired! What does that tell you about supply and demand???

NEXT__Your notion that AG#3, G4 or G6 coins are not good investments---at least in the past---was completely wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!! (assuming decent no-problem coins). IN fact the 1894P and 1893S Morgans had the highest rate of $ PERCENTAGE appreciation of ANY MORGAN FOR YEARS after 2000=2001!!! Where did you get the idea that lower grade, nice collector quality, coins don't appreciate faster than all others???---A big name dealer. perhaps???? I'd suggest you look at the historical data, not what high end dealers are trying to dump or sell you. DO a spread sheet--it won't predict the future, but is a good "GUIDELINE" sometimes.

Last there are at least 7 Morgans I'm actively trying to be buying and search constantly. IN one case, I have been unable t0 find a single VF-AU example IN FIVE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!--at least at a price less than MS64 unirculated

Confused yet?? LOL


edited for grammer---OCT 21,2006

Coxe

1893-S is a great date in any condition and it isn't like a coin that has a split point in value/grade (like the '81/'85-CC and '03-O Morgans and '28 Peace do). It is always in demand under all market conditions. Now if you want to go with an MS prooflike, it is a different story altogether.

morgannut2

<< <i>1893-S is a great date in any condition and it isn't like a coin that has a split point in value/grade (like the '81/'85-CC and '03-O Morgans and '28 Peace do). It is always in demand under all market conditions. Now if you want to go with an MS prooflike, it is a different story altogether. >>



Coxe and I BOTH own 1893S and prooflike 1896S Morgans---words are cheap----Actually I like the 1928-P Peace in PQ+++ MS64/63, but that's just me.

StampAlarm

1885-CC in a PCGS G-04 holder.

Coxe

<< <i>

<< <i>1893-S is a great date in any condition and it isn't like a coin that has a split point in value/grade (like the '81/'85-CC and '03-O Morgans and '28 Peace do). It is always in demand under all market conditions. Now if you want to go with an MS prooflike, it is a different story altogether. >>



Coxe and I BOTH own 1893S and prooflike 1896S Morgans---words are cheap----Actually I like the 1928-P Peace in PQ+++ MS64/63, but that's just me. >>



Actually, I have yet (in my decades of collecting) to buy an 1893-S. I missed a PL years ago and am just going to wait for the next opportunity for it or another. Yes, we both have gorgous prooflike 96-S Morgans. (Not many beyond our two!) Nothing like that date as a prooflike, almost as rare as the 93-S PL but much less appreciated.

DennisH

There are 5 great dates to own in just about any grade. They are all massively popular, and if one were to own just 5 Morgans these are the ones I would recommend. For $2000 the approximate grade you can get is in parentheses. Stick to PCGS or NGC coins if possible; their resale is better:

1889-CC (VF30)
1893-CC (AU50)
1893-S (G04, maybe G06)
1894-P (XF40)
1895-S (maybe AU55)

Sunnywood

The key date to the business strike series is the 1893-S. Period.

Best,
Sunnywood

LincolnCentMan

No question, the 1893-S is the key date to the biz stikes.

David

greghansen

Last there are at least 7 Morgans I'm actively trying to be buying and search constantly. IN one case, I have been unable t0 find a single VF-AU example IN FIVE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!--at least at a price less than MS64 unirculated

Morgannut2: I've got your coin. In fact...I have two of them. My guess is it is an '85-CC in circulated grade. I have one in a PCGS VF35 slab, and the other is a perfect VF20 which was formerly in an ICG VF30 and which I cracked out to put in my VF album. And your right...you pay about MS63 prices for these, but of course the spread between grades is so thin, it doesn't hurt much, especially to those who know how truly rare they are in circulated grades.

As far as the original post, I think the '95-S in F-XF, is an extremely though coin to find and has as good a chance as any date to hold its value or appreciate on a percentage basis in the forseeable future.

mcgrover

Thanks much. This is exactly what I needed to know. I feel the need to respond that I don't buy AGs not because of any perceived lack of future value, but rather when I look at coins in my collection I need to feel a certain amount of satisfaction having to do with history, quality, and personality. I don't feel this satisfaction with AG coins generally. Maybe they have too much personality. I would make an exception, and this is just me I know. AGs certainly have their value, and place.

DennisH

<< As far as the original post, I think the '95-S in F-XF, is an extremely though coin to find and has as good a chance as any date to hold its value or appreciate on a percentage basis in the forseeable future. >>

I second this statement, and here is a for instance -- I just won an NGC XF45 1895-S on eBay for $961. That exact coin (same holder serial number) sold in the Heritage January 2002 FUN Bullet sale for $448.50. Of course it didn't sell as a VAM in either instance, but it will the next time.

morgannut2

<< <i>The key date to the business strike series is the 1893-S. Period.

Best,
Sunnywood >>


--------------
---------------
WRONG SUNNYWOOD--the key date is the 1880-S PCGS MS68 I bid $17,000 cash for it as lot 1147, page193

at the ANR Sale, March 15, 2006, Baltimore MD.. Show me a more eye appealing "wow" Morgan that could

ever be looked at as a better "WOW" key Morgan!! Bet ya can't find one!!! (LOL)

morgannut2

<< <i>Last there are at least 7 Morgans I'm actively trying to be buying and search constantly. IN one case, I have been unable t0 find a single VF-AU example IN FIVE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!--at least at a price less than MS64 unirculated

Morgannut2: I've got your coin. In fact...I have two of them. My guess is it is an '85-CC in circulated grade. I have one in a PCGS VF35 slab, and the other is a perfect VF20 which was formerly in an ICG VF30 and which I cracked out to put in my VF album. And your right...you pay about MS63 prices for these, but of course the spread between grades is so thin, it doesn't hurt much, especially to those who know how truly rare they are in circulated grades.

As far as the original post, I think the '95-S in F-XF, is an extremely though coin to find and has as good a chance as any date to hold its value or appreciate on a percentage basis in the forseeable future. >>



----------------
I presume that $450 Cash won't buy that PCGS 1885CC in VF35!!!!! LOL---MY PM is always on, being an optimist!!!!

YES-I agree the 1895S is very undervalued below AU58 (XF45 is perfect IMHO) --the uncirculated coins just aren't very nice and have so many marks!!

Sunnywood

<< <i>

<< <i>The key date to the business strike series is the 1893-S. Period.

Best,
Sunnywood >>


--------------
---------------
WRONG SUNNYWOOD--the key date is the 1880-S PCGS MS68 I bid $17,000 cash for it as lot 1147, page193

at the ANR Sale, March 15, 2006, Baltimore MD.. Show me a more eye appealing "wow" Morgan that could

ever be looked at as a better "WOW" key Morgan!! Bet ya can't find one!!! (LOL) >>




hahaha ... Well, I won't argue about that particular 1880-S being one of the most eye appealing Morgans on the planet ... after all, I'm the one who bought it out of the ANR sale that you refer to !! It currently resides in my Somwhere Over the Rainbow Toned Morgan Collection (Primary Set) ... But I can assure you that finding a high-calibre attractively toned 1893-S is a considerably more challenging proposition (not to mention vastly more damaging to your bank account) ... anyway here's the 1880-S one more time for your enjoyment .... the reverse is a stellar banded rainbow, and on most coins that would be the highlight ... here the obverse manages to be even better ...




Best,
Sunnywood

anablep

In the spirit of resurrecting an old thread I found to be interesting...

I just purchased (at my local coin shop) an 1893-CC today in great condition and I haven't seen many this nice in person or on-line that impress me.

So I'd rank the 93-CC very high on the key date list. Not as high as the 93-S but certainly at the 79-CC level.

There were two 1894 and two 1889-CC for sale at the shop as well. Both very nice XF's.

I could have broken the bank today, as I need those 2 dates for my Morgan collection, but I showed some restraint.



My top key date would be the 96-S, which I hardly ever see anywhere in any condition, especially XF-AU.

rld14

It depends on condition...

Circulated? 03-O, 81-CC, 85-CC come to mind..... but all are commonly available in Unc.

Unc? 84-S is rare... yet in circulated it's a common date.

penny4yourthoughts

clackamas

93-S hands down for circ strikes, it the most expensive of the coins in the lowest grades and the most expensive in the highest and has the lowest POPs - case settled. In total numbers known the 95-P is the Key, but it only counts with proofs.

kurtdog

The '93-S is the SVDB of the Morgan Dollar series.

rld14

<< <i>The '93-S is the SVDB of the Morgan Dollar series. >>



Yup. Not rare at all as a general rule.. 22 on Heritage at the moment, and slabbed ones on eBay? I stopped counting at 35.

So there ya go, with enough money I can put probably 3 rolls together RIGHT NOW... and I would imagine that if I put effort into it on Monday I could buy 100 of them.

ambro51

rld I think your figures are correct and the similarity to the svdb exact.

MidLifeCrisis

How do you define a key date?

I think the term "key date" is tied more to popularity than it is to rarity (either true rarity or condition rarity).

ricko

Midlifecrisis has a good point... key date definition seems to float between rarity and popularity... frequently a combination of the two. Perhaps 'perceived' rarity spurs popularity - thus driving prices higher. Cheers, RickO

gamer1958

One of the better 93-S examples on eBay was $5300 with possibility of an offer:

93-S

There's some other "interesting" dates that weren't discussed; the 1884-S has quite a jump in price from XF to AU; from AU to UNC it is more than a 10X price increase, yet is relatively common in lower circulated grades. Could say the same for the 92-S and the 94-O. In gem grades these coins go to six figures, so is that a factor of falling victim to the massive "melts" i.e. Pittman Act, etc? Mintage for these dates were low, but not as low as the 93-S or some others. This subject's likely been discussed here before.

Usually I just look for original, un-messed with coins, VF or higher; I don't own a 93-S and probably won't, but surely there's some other "sleeper" dates in the Morgan series worth considering...I'd be interested in hearing more on this topic.

LindeDad

I will note the the more key the coin the more it seems to be becoming the target of the counterfeiters it seems. To include the slab.

Tallpaul000

1893S has been mentioned, but I would stock up on all the original 03O, 94, 94S and especially 95S in VG-F. Most of the 94 and 95Ss have been tortured in some way, so finding an original circ that looks nice is hard to do.

roadrunner

<< <i><< As far as the original post, I think the '95-S in F-XF, is an extremely though coin to find and has as good a chance as any date to hold its value or appreciate on a percentage basis in the forseeable future. >>

I second this statement, and here is a for instance -- I just won an NGC XF45 1895-S on eBay for $961. That exact coin (same holder serial number) sold in the Heritage January 2002 FUN Bullet sale for $448.50. Of course it didn't sell as a VAM in either instance, but it will the next time. >>



That would be thinking as well. Research and find dates in VF-XF that are currently underpriced compared to the overhyped key dates listed above. I was once floored by a magenta and yellow cameo 1890-cc Morgan in MS64. If it weren't >4X bid I would have loved to have bought that coin for posterity.

roadrunner