Ridiculous to think that Jeter has ANY fault of ARod's shortcomings. Captain or not. ARod wanted to move to 3B to be a Yankee. And who says that ARod WANTS Jeter to stick up for him to the press? Wouldnt that make ARod look more like a sissy than he already is? I'm sure even ARod is smart enough not to let that happen. The media would have a field day with that.
I think we have seen a lot of sour grapes from the Yankees haters.
<< <i>Ridiculous to think that Jeter has ANY fault of ARod's shortcomings. Captain or not. ARod wanted to move to 3B to be a Yankee. And who says that ARod WANTS Jeter to stick up for him to the press? Wouldnt that make ARod look more like a sissy than he already is? I'm sure even ARod is smart enough not to let that happen. The media would have a field day with that.
I think we have seen a lot of sour grapes from the Yankees haters. >>
Why is it ridiculous?
Arod was going to the red sox, remember? But Bud wouldn't cut his contract to make the numbers work, so ny picked him up. Don't give me this revisionist history crap that 'Arod wanted to be a yankee!'
What are jeter's duties as captain? He defended steroid boy giambi in the media, no love for Arod?
Why would they move the better fielder to an off position? Because Jeter wouldn't move.
A-Rod hardly had a bad year and already the fans want to run him out of town. I'm sure you could come up with many times where Jeter FAILED to hit in a man on base in the playoffs, but the times he has come thru shine brightly. He's been there a heck of a lot longer than A Rod and has had a heck of a lot more chances. Throw enough chit against the wall and somethings gonna stick. Christ, Aaron Boone is a Yankee hero for one freaking hit.
This is why I don't participate in these Yankee's threads. The one constant in all the recent Yankees short comings have been Jeter and Torre. I am not saying their actions or play directly, but they have been the only ones around for all the collapses. Its easy to blame the new guys as the reasons they didn't win rather than the tried and true Yanks. I know, Torre finally caught some chit, as he should with a $200+ mil payroll and playing like they did in the first round.
But getting back to my initial point, Jeter is not the superstar you think he is because he fails to make thos around him better. MJ made Pippen a HOFer. MJ made Cartwright an awesome center in the dusk of his career. MJ made Paxson, Kerr, Hodges deadly shooters because he altered the game enough for them to be able to succeed.
Jeter has done none of that for his teammates. Durability and longevity is surely something to be spoken of. It helps to make a player great. Guys like Barry Larkin, Allen Trammell, Ray Durham, Bill Madlock and Robby Alomar all had durability and longevity. All were good players but none were amongst the best. If Jeter didn't wear pinstripes he would be in the same breath as these guys.
<< <i>Why would they move the better fielder to an off position? Because Jeter wouldn't move.
A-Rod hardly had a bad year and already the fans want to run him out of town. I'm sure you could come up with many times where Jeter FAILED to hit in a man on base in the playoffs, but the times he has come thru shine brightly. He's been there a heck of a lot longer than A Rod and has had a heck of a lot more chances. Throw enough chit against the wall and somethings gonna stick. Christ, Aaron Boone is a Yankee hero for one freaking hit.
This is why I don't participate in these Yankee's threads. The one constant in all the recent Yankees short comings have been Jeter and Torre. I am not saying their actions or play directly, but they have been the only ones around for all the collapses. Its easy to blame the new guys as the reasons they didn't win rather than the tried and true Yanks. I know, Torre finally caught some chit, as he should with a $200+ mil payroll and playing like they did in the first round.
But getting back to my initial point, Jeter is not the superstar you think he is because he fails to make thos around him better. MJ made Pippen a HOFer. MJ made Cartwright an awesome center in the dusk of his career. MJ made Paxson, Kerr, Hodges deadly shooters because he altered the game enough for them to be able to succeed.
Jeter has done none of that for his teammates. Durability and longevity is surely something to be spoken of. It helps to make a player great. Guys like Barry Larkin, Allen Trammell, Ray Durham, Bill Madlock and Robby Alomar all had durability and longevity. All were good players but none were amongst the best. If Jeter didn't wear pinstripes he would be in the same breath as these guys. >>
FWIW, my understanding is that they moved A-Rod to third because he has a stronger arm. Also, since he is a better fielder the idea what that he would have an easier time making the adjustment.
I'm not sure I can get behind your argument that Jeter is a failed captain because he doesn't make those around him better. Baseball is different from basketball, in that at any given moment only one player is being asked to perform. In basketball, by contrast, all five players are moving all the time. When A-Rod is at the plate there's nothing God or anyone else can do to make him hit the ball. When Pippen has the ball, though, Jordan can help him get off a better shot by setting a good screen, working as a decoy, and so on.
Still, I think you're original point re: Jeter's captaincy is a good one. Yankee fans here are confusing two different arguments. We're not discussing whether or Jeter should HAVE TO publicly support A-Rod, but whether or not he should DO IT. There's a big difference. My wife would like to go out jogging a 11 pm, but of course she doesn't- it's not fair that I can walk around late at night while she can't, but things are the way they are. Now you can argue that in a perfect world Jeter shouldn't have to come out and give A-Rod his support, but that's not at all the same as saying that doing so wouldn't be a good idea.
And what could it hurt? For God's sake, it couldn't make him play WORSE in October. Like I said in an earlier post, being the captain of the team means you need to do stuff that you may not really want to do. In this case I think it means putting your best face forward and supporting A-Rod when you're talking to the media-- even if you really hate the guy.
Arod was going to the red sox, remember? But Bud wouldn't cut his contract to make the numbers work, so ny picked him up. Don't give me this revisionist history crap that 'Arod wanted to be a yankee!'
What are jeter's duties as captain? He defended steroid boy giambi in the media, no love for Arod?
Lame. >>
What is LAME is your baseball knowledge and talking out your A$$ when you dont know the facts.
ARod had/has a no trade clause in his contract. It was there when he signed with the Rangers. It was very well known that ARod wanted to go to a playoff contender and that he especially wanted to go to the Yankees. HE was the one who offered to make the move to 3B if the trade was to go through. So dont make it sound like ohhh poor little ARod had to move positions because Jeter wouldnt move. Bull$hit.
How many times does it have to be repeated why there is no love for ARod? The fans don't boo him just to have someone to beat up on. They boo him because he cant come through in the clutch. Let's not forget that ARod was given thunderous ovations in the last 2 weeks of the season (when there was no pressure on him and he was hitting well)...in fact, he was cheered out of the dugout 2 days in a row at one point. Fans show their appreciation when it is deserved. They also show their disapproval where it is deserved. All the sudden the playoffs come and he can barely hit a foul ball. That's what the fans dont like. I dont care if he did well TWO YEARS AGO. It was THIS year that counted. It was THIS season that counted. And are people trying to insinuate that because Jeter didnt go to the press and tell them to stop picking on ARod that is Jeter's fault? ARod is a big boy making big money. He can take care of himself. If any of you watched post game reporters talk to Jeter, Jeter answered any questions regarding ARod...and he did it with class.
Sorry Zef, I have to disagree when you say that Jeter doesnt make players around him better. He is on base often, he steals, an excellent baserunner, and he gives players and the team opportunities to score. He is very solid defensively making excellent plays on both ends of a DP. He also knows how to tag and stick with the runner after a hard slide in case he overslides the bag...that makes his pitcher and catcher better players. (Unlike ARod who holds the ball in the air for the umpire to see while the guy continues to slide past a base) The guy is always talking to his teammates after plays/hitting and shows his emotions...which pumps up the rest of the team. I'm sure there are many other examples of those who watch Yankees games day in and day out as I do.
I think we have seen a lot of sour grapes from the Yankees haters. >>
Without a doubt, We have Jerry who NEVER talks about the team he supposedly roots for and will say whatever it takes no matter how ridiculous ... but then we have zef who for some reason feels the need to explain "why he doesn't participate" in Yankee threads before every post in a Yankee thread
zef, a good baseball guy like you is gonna spew out nonsense like this? Derek Jeter with more base hits in MLB the last 10 years then anybody, 4 World Series rings in which he played a HUGE part, NEVER had a miserable post season the like that A-Rod churns out every year ..... never causes a stir in the fishbowl media, and you are going to use the same super load of CRAP angles that our beloved true Yankee haters around here use?
Your basketball analogy is COMPLETE BUNK zef. I mean, get real ..... maybe if Derek was out by home plate with a bucket of balls and tossed A-Rod a nice fat one after every pitch .... yeah, there ya go! MJ to Pippen !!!!
All of you guys who whine on about Derek Jeter being who he is BECAUSE he is a Yankee, BECAUSE he hits in that lineup, BECAUSE of the media , bla, bla, bla, sniff, sniff, sniff, ...... how many Yankees have EVER pounded out 3,000 hits in his career?
Ummmm .... that would be NOBODY. So Jeter who is on pace to tear down 3,000 hits and spit it out and become the first and only NY Yankee to do it is mearly just a product of the team itself?
Man some of you buy the sports media hook, line and sinker. Lou said yesterday, no discussion of Arod ever came up. It wouldn't surprise me however if he agrees to go to the SouthSide of Chicago. The Sox have Josh Fields in the waiting to take over for Joe Crede and are said to be shopping Freddie Garcia. Seems to make sense to both teams. Crede has turned into a gold glover and hits with power, average and something the Yanks need........in the clutch. Garcia would be the first or second best pitcher in the Yanks rotation. He finished very strong.
Garcia isnt consistant enough and Crede has back problems. I highly doubt that would be a viable trade for the Yankees especially when they can go to the free agent market and pick up a better pitcher than Garcia.
<< <i>Garcia isnt consistant enough and Crede has back problems. I highly doubt that would be a viable trade for the Yankees especially when they can go to the free agent market and pick up a better pitcher than Garcia. >>
Crede's back problems do not require surgery, he played in 150 games this past season, hit 283 with 30 home runs. Garcia was 17 and 9 and pitched in one of the best hitter parks in the AL. If the Sox are dumb enough to go along with this trade, the Yanks should jump on it. Garcia is 6-2 with a 3.11 era is playoff and series appearances. Crede had 11 rbi's in last years playoffs. Both of these guys are big time, big game players, something the Yanks need more of. Personally I hope these discussions go nowhere.
I don't know who is out there on the free agent market that is much better than Garcia, but certainly this proposed trade doesn't prevent the Yanks from signing a free agent pitcher. Correct me if the trade precludes this from happening and seems to me that the Yanks could use two or three quality starters.
For everyone that is finally recognizing that baseball players don't make other baseball players better, please do not bring up the number of 'rings' a baseball player has, when determining his worth as a player. The rings are one part player, and 100 parts other things out of the players control. So please stop using rings as any type of criteria to determine the value of an individual player in a team sport.
Also, for those who also recognize that football and basketball players have such a direct impact on each other's performance, again, please stop using rings to determine the players worth in a team sport, as his rings simply don't come unless the the other 1,000 pieces fall into place.
As for Arod's clutch, or lack therof? He had a miserable year defensively, subpar for him offensively, and sucked in the playofffs. Do not get caught up in small sample sizes in clutch data. If one has to harp on his poor post season play the last two years, THEN one CANNOT disregard his other excellent post season series previously! Even all taken together, he still does not have enough post season at bats to make a clutch/not clutch determination. If one looks at the history of post season performance, you should see the yo-yo effect of players performance. It is much more a result of randomness, than any 'persoality' trait. I've shown many examples on these boards before, but people tend to gloss over them so that their point may seem valid...especially about Arod.
Are Arod's skills diminsihing? That is a legit topic, and that may actually be happening. That descent must happen sooner or later, and it happens sooner for some and later for others.
<< <i>Garcia isnt consistant enough and Crede has back problems. >>
They both sound like perfect yankee candidates! Sign em up!!!
As far as jeter goes, the yankee fans are so drunk on his koolaid it's impossible for them to *ever* doubt him. They want to kneel at the alter of jeterism, let em. They'll never see the truth:
he's a mediocre fielder, who was lucky (yes, I said LUCKY) to bet on a team that has made the postseason so many years in a row. As zef said, throw anyone into that many postseason at bats, and they are going to make a few key hits. It doesn't mean they are 'clutch', it simply is the law of averages.
As far as Arod goes, how tough would it have been for jeter to say in an interview, when asked about Arod (and you know he was asked about him all year), asked about his struggles, to say 'you know, I don't understand why the yankee fans are booing him. He comes in every day and works as hard as anyone here. The fans booing aren't helping anything'.
But nooooo. The captain won't dare to stick his neck out for fear of catching the yankee fans' wrath. He won't dare to stick his neck out and stick up for his teammates.
He's a piss poor captain who does NOTHING in that role.
That is just ridiculous. If Jeter is a mediocre fielder, then A-Rod just plain sucks. And how DARE Yankee fans defend Jeter from such blatantly wrong comments about his role with the Yankees or his ability .... right? How dare they defy the backwards logic of the hater. We should just sit here not say a word otherwise. What a crock of shat.
For that umpteenth time and I promise not to say this again, Arod is not the problem with the Yankees, its an aging easily injured pitching staff. You can't win a World Series every gambling on scoring a touchdown and a field goal every game. If Zito is the only addition the Yankees make to their pitching staff they won't win again. It makes no difference who plays third base for them, whether Arod hits 275 or 325. Its a nonissue. You need a mix of veteran and young hurlers, because old guys break down. For pete's sake I read a thread on the Mets where Met fans actually believe EL Duque would be their savior in the series and if only he could pitch tonight. I am amazed folks actually believe that.
Torre didn't get fired simply because there were enuf folks in the Yankee organization that pointed this out to George.
I dont think anyone has said that it was ALL ARods fault that they didnt win. Although is performance (or lack thereof when it mattered most) was definately a problem. The ARod problems have been a discussion all season so it goes well beyond what happened in the post season.
I think Mets fans would like El Duque because of his success in important post season games. His career, barring serious injury, is far from over.
That is just ridiculous. If Jeter is a mediocre fielder, then A-Rod just plain sucks. >>
No, what's ridiculous is, instead of looking at the FACTS and STATISTICS (instead of obviously biased and emotional responses), yankee 'fans' lash back 'well Arod stinks!' Arod had a bad year AT A POSITION THAT'S NOT HIS NORMAL POSITION. Jeter's fielding percentage has ALWAYS been just at the league average for fielding - that's the very definition of MEDIOCRE.
<< <i>And how DARE Yankee fans defend Jeter from such blatantly wrong comments about his role with the Yankees or his ability .... right? How dare they defy the backwards logic of the hater. We should just sit here not say a word otherwise. What a crock of shat. >>
hahah you guys STILL cannot tell me what jeter's responsibilities are as 'captain'! That speaks VOLUMES about what he actually does. Crock of chit? You guys are the EPITOME of it!
zef, Link does not work. And just who is bold about how Jeter ends up zef? Are you not the one with the hammer declaring who he will be fitting in with at the end of his career statistically speaking? Did you not throw up some names earlier??
<< <i>zef, Link does not work. And just who is bold about how Jeter ends up zef? Are you not the one with the hammer declaring who he will be fitting in with at the end of his career statistically speaking? Did you not throw up some names earlier?? >>
The names I put up are now seen in that link. He is statistically most like those guys right now.
Who knows if he will get to 3000 hits, 250 HR's yada, yada, yada...
edited to add: The link wouldn't work because there was a : D and it showed up as
<< <i>Who knows if the sun will come up tomorrow? The point is, based on his age and his recent performance, and his propensity for staying relatively healthy, he has a very good chance of putting up some big numbers. He can easily exceed my expectations that I posted, especially if he hangs on till he is 40. >>
And he could easily tear his knee at the start of next year and have a mere couple hundred AB's left in the league.
Don't belittle with your sun BS. You were the one that was ASSuming.
<< <i> And he could easily tear his knee at the start of next year and have a mere couple hundred AB's left in the league.
>>
And using that logic he could stay healthy and wind up with 3,700 hits at the age of 42.
zef, OF COURSE I am assuming Jeter stays at least relativley healthy. He already has 2,150 hits at the age of 32. I am seeing at worst 5 more season and 3,000 hits are behind him at the age of 37.
So, through age 32 he is comparable to 6 HOF'ers. Is that supposed to prove a point that he isnt that good or only average? Im not understanding how this proves your point, in fact just the opposite.
<< <i>I see six out of 10 batters through his age who are Hall of Famers and the ones who are not?
Alan Trammell Joe Torre Craig Biggio Roberto Alomar >>
The only one that is in the Hall that played in this era is Ryne Sandburg. If you haven't realized the hall has evolved since then and if Jeter is comparable to thos guys of this era, that says a lot more than who he is comparable to from 60-100 years ago.
<< <i>So, through age 32 he is comparable to 6 HOF'ers. Is that supposed to prove a point that he isnt that good or only average? Im not understanding how this proves your point, in fact just the opposite. >>
The only one that is in the Hall that played in this era is Ryne Sandburg. If you haven't realized the hall has evolved since then and if Jeter is comparable to thos guys of this era, that says a lot more than who he is comparable to from 60-100 years ago. >>
huh? evolved into what zef? Nothing but super duper Homerun hitters getting into the Hall? NOTHING has changed regarding the Hall when you are talking about 3,000 and possibly alot more in the hit department.
Well certainly Biggio is a sure fire HOFer. Trammell should be and will hopefully be. Alomar also has a chance to be. Biggio is the only one still playing. Possible but odds are not with Jeter having a career ending injury. What class will it put him in when his career is over. Yes, they may be players from decades past but Jeter's career is more than likely very far from over.
<< <i>If you don't think that Jeter is on the cusp of making the HOF, with or without 3,000 hits, you are just crazy. If he tore his leg tomorrow, as you sickly suggest (and I'm sure you wish just for that), Jeter would probably get the Kirby Puckett treatment. >>
I far from wish it. That inference is more sick than me posing a possible situation which happens with regularity in professional sports. Please don't question my integrity or assume my ill intent. You don't know me.
<< <i> I far from wish it. That inference is more sick than me posing a possible situation which happens with regularity in professional sports. Please don't question my integrity or assume my ill intent. You don't know me. >>
zef, this kind of thing is RAMPANT (the norm)around here....... it sux and WELCOME TO THE SPORTS "TALK" FORUM.
<< <i>zef, based on the things you write, all I see is a bunch of hating going on. I may not know you, but I can clearly see the hating going on. You clearly wish the guy failure for whatever disturbed reason. And save your holier than thou attitude. I could care less how special or honorable you think you are. It certainly couldn't be deduced based on your disparaging attidue on this forum. >>
I wish you die in a fire. That's not honorable, is it?
Both are great players. Both are probably Hall of Famer's. You can't argue that. I enjoy watching both of them play and I am definitely not a Yankee hater or Jeter hater. But I think even Jeter realizes there is little doubt who the better ball player is. The power numbers A-Rod puts up in a "Bad" year are numbers Jeter can only dream of. Also it is embarassing to compare them defensively. A-Rod is a Gold Glove SS playing out of position at 3B because Jetes didn't want to move. Jeter is an average SS pure and simple.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Typical overractionary yankee 'fans' to take someone theorizing what would happen if jeter got injured tomorrow into wishing harm on him.
Ridiculous...and you yankee 'fans' wonder why people everywhere despise you? It's not your team, it's successes - IT'S YOU. It's your smug arrogance, it's your absolute refusal to take ANY criticism (especially your god jeter).
Why do you guys insist on hijacking EVERY F**KING THREAD ON THIS FORUM with your stupid, puerile bickering??! Do you think anything is going to change? Does axtell think he's going to sway anyone here to his way of thinking, or do you any of the rest of you think you'll sway axell's. For God's sake, how many of you would be proud of showing your contributions on this forum to your children? "Hey son, see what I do on the computer here in the study? I lob insults back and forth with some stranger who does (or doesn't) like the New York Yankees. When you grow up maybe you'll be man enough to join in too."
Buy some perspective. The fact-- and I'm sure it's a fact- is that none of the rest of us give a rat's ass about your little feud, and get sick and tired of seeing it played out in every goddamned thread on this forum. Take to PM's if you just can't get enough of each other-- or better yet, grow up and just quit it. We all have people on these forums that we don't like; that's just the way it is. But most of us are adult enough to keep the name calling and such to a minimum. Maybe you all could learn from our example.
<< <i>Why do you guys insist on hijacking EVERY F**KING THREAD ON THIS FORUM with your stupid, puerile bickering??! Do you think anything is going to change? Does axtell think he's going to sway anyone here to his way of thinking, or do you any of the rest of you think you'll sway axell's. For God's sake, how many of you would be proud of showing your contributions on this forum to your children? "Hey son, see what I do on the computer here in the study? I lob insults back and forth with some stranger who does (or doesn't) like the New York Yankees. When you grow up maybe you'll be man enough to join in too."
Buy some perspective. The fact-- and I'm sure it's a fact- is that none of the rest of us give a rat's ass about your little feud, and get sick and tired of seeing it played out in every goddamned thread on this forum. Take to PM's if you just can't get enough of each other-- or better yet, grow up and just quit it. We all have people on these forums that we don't like; that's just the way it is. But most of us are adult enough to keep the name calling and such to a minimum. Maybe you all could learn from our example. >>
Hey Boo .... I for one stopped using lame a$$ name calling loooong ago. Don't know who really your little rant is dirtected at but it sure is ANYBODYS right to respond to comments they don't agree with.
Also, unless you point out exactly WHO you are talking about, your "I'm better then you" speal rings pretty hollow
<< <i> A-Rod is a Gold Glove SS playing out of position at 3B because Jetes didn't want to move. Jeter is an average SS pure and simple. >>
I love how you guys re-write history man. Jeter was never asked to move ..... why should Jeter just offer to move from his positon becuase A-Rod is coming? A-Rod was told that if he WANTED to be traded he would HAVE to play 3rd base and agreeg IMMEDIATELY. So, everything is Jeters fault with A-Rod. He can't hit because Jeter won't coddle him. He can't field because Jeter did not just offer up a position he has played forever.
Derek Jeter's fielding has NEVER cost the Yankees a thing. You guys blast away at that because there is no other way for yourselves to explain why A-ROd is so messed up in the head.
<< <i>Without a doubt, We have Jerry who NEVER talks about the team he supposedly roots for and will say whatever it takes no matter how ridiculous ... >>
Dan, I have to call you on this one. You know as well as I do, that I post tons of Red Sox stuff, and always have! I don't flood the forum Spammy-style, but I'm sure you didn't really mean what you said above. Of course, right now, the Yankees are like a soap opera (what else is new?) and it's fun to watch them, and comment on them. They are easy targets.
Zef seems to have a grasp on the Jeter image and how real it is, and isn't - too bad I couldn't find the thread where we laid this out quite nicely before. I think it was from last summer, but there have been so many "Jeter is overrated" threads on here, I have lost track. Summary - Jeter certainly benefits from his surroundings, more than his surroundings benefit from him. He could go to KC tommorrow, and it would be "Derek who?" - and you could plug just about any SS into his old spot, and the Yanks wouldn't miss very much.
They don't call him "Captain Intangibles" for nothing.
nahhhh ....thats a load of you know what Jer. If Derek Jeter had been drafted by the Boston Red Sox and did what he has done with the Yankees so far you would have 18 sculptures of him in your bedroom Jerry. Its ALL about him playing for the Yankees and you (among many) just do not like that.
And call me out on what Jer? Since the red Sox collapse of the summer there has been CRICKETS about the Red SOx from you. Perk Dog and Connect talked alot about the Sox dismal finish but you clammed up tight. All you would say is .... "Yeah I don't like it , but, Yankees this and Yankees that and Jeter this and Randy that ......
Well, I don't think that's the case - but I definitely will continue to talk about and support the Sox (just as I have since the mid 70's). Since our season fell apart, the talk here was all about the Yankees anyway, so I agree that you saw me discussing them more. But fear not - the Sox will be back strong in 2007 - and I be sure to tell you all about it here.
Comments
I think we have seen a lot of sour grapes from the Yankees haters.
<< <i>Ridiculous to think that Jeter has ANY fault of ARod's shortcomings. Captain or not. ARod wanted to move to 3B to be a Yankee. And who says that ARod WANTS Jeter to stick up for him to the press? Wouldnt that make ARod look more like a sissy than he already is? I'm sure even ARod is smart enough not to let that happen. The media would have a field day with that.
I think we have seen a lot of sour grapes from the Yankees haters. >>
Why is it ridiculous?
Arod was going to the red sox, remember? But Bud wouldn't cut his contract to make the numbers work, so ny picked him up. Don't give me this revisionist history crap that 'Arod wanted to be a yankee!'
What are jeter's duties as captain? He defended steroid boy giambi in the media, no love for Arod?
Lame.
A-Rod hardly had a bad year and already the fans want to run him out of town. I'm sure you could come up with many times where Jeter FAILED to hit in a man on base in the playoffs, but the times he has come thru shine brightly. He's been there a heck of a lot longer than A Rod and has had a heck of a lot more chances. Throw enough chit against the wall and somethings gonna stick. Christ, Aaron Boone is a Yankee hero for one freaking hit.
This is why I don't participate in these Yankee's threads. The one constant in all the recent Yankees short comings have been Jeter and Torre. I am not saying their actions or play directly, but they have been the only ones around for all the collapses. Its easy to blame the new guys as the reasons they didn't win rather than the tried and true Yanks. I know, Torre finally caught some chit, as he should with a $200+ mil payroll and playing like they did in the first round.
But getting back to my initial point, Jeter is not the superstar you think he is because he fails to make thos around him better. MJ made Pippen a HOFer. MJ made Cartwright an awesome center in the dusk of his career. MJ made Paxson, Kerr, Hodges deadly shooters because he altered the game enough for them to be able to succeed.
Jeter has done none of that for his teammates. Durability and longevity is surely something to be spoken of. It helps to make a player great. Guys like Barry Larkin, Allen Trammell, Ray Durham, Bill Madlock and Robby Alomar all had durability and longevity. All were good players but none were amongst the best. If Jeter didn't wear pinstripes he would be in the same breath as these guys.
My Auctions
<< <i>Why would they move the better fielder to an off position? Because Jeter wouldn't move.
A-Rod hardly had a bad year and already the fans want to run him out of town. I'm sure you could come up with many times where Jeter FAILED to hit in a man on base in the playoffs, but the times he has come thru shine brightly. He's been there a heck of a lot longer than A Rod and has had a heck of a lot more chances. Throw enough chit against the wall and somethings gonna stick. Christ, Aaron Boone is a Yankee hero for one freaking hit.
This is why I don't participate in these Yankee's threads. The one constant in all the recent Yankees short comings have been Jeter and Torre. I am not saying their actions or play directly, but they have been the only ones around for all the collapses. Its easy to blame the new guys as the reasons they didn't win rather than the tried and true Yanks. I know, Torre finally caught some chit, as he should with a $200+ mil payroll and playing like they did in the first round.
But getting back to my initial point, Jeter is not the superstar you think he is because he fails to make thos around him better. MJ made Pippen a HOFer. MJ made Cartwright an awesome center in the dusk of his career. MJ made Paxson, Kerr, Hodges deadly shooters because he altered the game enough for them to be able to succeed.
Jeter has done none of that for his teammates. Durability and longevity is surely something to be spoken of. It helps to make a player great. Guys like Barry Larkin, Allen Trammell, Ray Durham, Bill Madlock and Robby Alomar all had durability and longevity. All were good players but none were amongst the best. If Jeter didn't wear pinstripes he would be in the same breath as these guys. >>
FWIW, my understanding is that they moved A-Rod to third because he has a stronger arm. Also, since he is a better fielder the idea what that he would have an easier time making the adjustment.
I'm not sure I can get behind your argument that Jeter is a failed captain because he doesn't make those around him better. Baseball is different from basketball, in that at any given moment only one player is being asked to perform. In basketball, by contrast, all five players are moving all the time. When A-Rod is at the plate there's nothing God or anyone else can do to make him hit the ball. When Pippen has the ball, though, Jordan can help him get off a better shot by setting a good screen, working as a decoy, and so on.
Still, I think you're original point re: Jeter's captaincy is a good one. Yankee fans here are confusing two different arguments. We're not discussing whether or Jeter should HAVE TO publicly support A-Rod, but whether or not he should DO IT. There's a big difference. My wife would like to go out jogging a 11 pm, but of course she doesn't- it's not fair that I can walk around late at night while she can't, but things are the way they are. Now you can argue that in a perfect world Jeter shouldn't have to come out and give A-Rod his support, but that's not at all the same as saying that doing so wouldn't be a good idea.
And what could it hurt? For God's sake, it couldn't make him play WORSE in October. Like I said in an earlier post, being the captain of the team means you need to do stuff that you may not really want to do. In this case I think it means putting your best face forward and supporting A-Rod when you're talking to the media-- even if you really hate the guy.
<< <i>
Why is it ridiculous?
Arod was going to the red sox, remember? But Bud wouldn't cut his contract to make the numbers work, so ny picked him up. Don't give me this revisionist history crap that 'Arod wanted to be a yankee!'
What are jeter's duties as captain? He defended steroid boy giambi in the media, no love for Arod?
Lame. >>
What is LAME is your baseball knowledge and talking out your A$$ when you dont know the facts.
ARod had/has a no trade clause in his contract. It was there when he signed with the Rangers. It was very well known that ARod wanted to go to a playoff contender and that he especially wanted to go to the Yankees. HE was the one who offered to make the move to 3B if the trade was to go through. So dont make it sound like ohhh poor little ARod had to move positions because Jeter wouldnt move. Bull$hit.
How many times does it have to be repeated why there is no love for ARod? The fans don't boo him just to have someone to beat up on. They boo him because he cant come through in the clutch. Let's not forget that ARod was given thunderous ovations in the last 2 weeks of the season (when there was no pressure on him and he was hitting well)...in fact, he was cheered out of the dugout 2 days in a row at one point. Fans show their appreciation when it is deserved. They also show their disapproval where it is deserved. All the sudden the playoffs come and he can barely hit a foul ball. That's what the fans dont like. I dont care if he did well TWO YEARS AGO. It was THIS year that counted. It was THIS season that counted. And are people trying to insinuate that because Jeter didnt go to the press and tell them to stop picking on ARod that is Jeter's fault? ARod is a big boy making big money. He can take care of himself. If any of you watched post game reporters talk to Jeter, Jeter answered any questions regarding ARod...and he did it with class.
Sorry Zef, I have to disagree when you say that Jeter doesnt make players around him better. He is on base often, he steals, an excellent baserunner, and he gives players and the team opportunities to score. He is very solid defensively making excellent plays on both ends of a DP. He also knows how to tag and stick with the runner after a hard slide in case he overslides the bag...that makes his pitcher and catcher better players. (Unlike ARod who holds the ball in the air for the umpire to see while the guy continues to slide past a base) The guy is always talking to his teammates after plays/hitting and shows his emotions...which pumps up the rest of the team. I'm sure there are many other examples of those who watch Yankees games day in and day out as I do.
<< <i>
I think we have seen a lot of sour grapes from the Yankees haters. >>
Without a doubt, We have Jerry who NEVER talks about the team he supposedly roots for and will say whatever it takes no matter how ridiculous ... but then we have zef who for some reason feels the need to explain "why he doesn't participate" in Yankee threads before every post in a Yankee thread
zef, a good baseball guy like you is gonna spew out nonsense like this? Derek Jeter with more base hits in MLB the last 10 years then anybody, 4 World Series rings in which he played a HUGE part, NEVER had a miserable post season the like that A-Rod churns out every year ..... never causes a stir in the fishbowl media, and you are going to use the same super load of CRAP angles that our beloved true Yankee haters around here use?
Your basketball analogy is COMPLETE BUNK zef. I mean, get real ..... maybe if Derek was out by home plate with a bucket of balls and tossed A-Rod a nice fat one after every pitch .... yeah, there ya go! MJ to Pippen !!!!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Ummmm .... that would be NOBODY. So Jeter who is on pace to tear down 3,000 hits and spit it out and become the first and only NY Yankee to do it is mearly just a product of the team itself?
Please go on!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Garcia isnt consistant enough and Crede has back problems. I highly doubt that would be a viable trade for the Yankees especially when they can go to the free agent market and pick up a better pitcher than Garcia. >>
Crede's back problems do not require surgery, he played in 150 games this past season, hit 283 with 30 home runs. Garcia was 17 and 9 and pitched in one of the best hitter parks in the AL. If the Sox are dumb enough to go along with this trade, the Yanks should jump on it. Garcia is 6-2 with a 3.11 era is playoff and series appearances. Crede had 11 rbi's in last years playoffs. Both of these guys are big time, big game players, something the Yanks need more of. Personally I hope these discussions go nowhere.
I don't know who is out there on the free agent market that is much better than Garcia, but certainly this proposed trade doesn't prevent the Yanks from signing a free agent pitcher. Correct me if the trade precludes this from happening and seems to me that the Yanks could use two or three quality starters.
Also, for those who also recognize that football and basketball players have such a direct impact on each other's performance, again, please stop using rings to determine the players worth in a team sport, as his rings simply don't come unless the the other 1,000 pieces fall into place.
As for Arod's clutch, or lack therof? He had a miserable year defensively, subpar for him offensively, and sucked in the playofffs. Do not get caught up in small sample sizes in clutch data. If one has to harp on his poor post season play the last two years, THEN one CANNOT disregard his other excellent post season series previously! Even all taken together, he still does not have enough post season at bats to make a clutch/not clutch determination. If one looks at the history of post season performance, you should see the yo-yo effect of players performance. It is much more a result of randomness, than any 'persoality' trait. I've shown many examples on these boards before, but people tend to gloss over them so that their point may seem valid...especially about Arod.
Are Arod's skills diminsihing? That is a legit topic, and that may actually be happening. That descent must happen sooner or later, and it happens sooner for some and later for others.
<< <i>Garcia isnt consistant enough and Crede has back problems. >>
They both sound like perfect yankee candidates! Sign em up!!!
As far as jeter goes, the yankee fans are so drunk on his koolaid it's impossible for them to *ever* doubt him. They want to kneel at the alter of jeterism, let em. They'll never see the truth:
he's a mediocre fielder, who was lucky (yes, I said LUCKY) to bet on a team that has made the postseason so many years in a row. As zef said, throw anyone into that many postseason at bats, and they are going to make a few key hits. It doesn't mean they are 'clutch', it simply is the law of averages.
As far as Arod goes, how tough would it have been for jeter to say in an interview, when asked about Arod (and you know he was asked about him all year), asked about his struggles, to say 'you know, I don't understand why the yankee fans are booing him. He comes in every day and works as hard as anyone here. The fans booing aren't helping anything'.
But nooooo. The captain won't dare to stick his neck out for fear of catching the yankee fans' wrath. He won't dare to stick his neck out and stick up for his teammates.
He's a piss poor captain who does NOTHING in that role.
<< <i>
he's a mediocre fielder >>
That is just ridiculous. If Jeter is a mediocre fielder, then A-Rod just plain sucks. And how DARE Yankee fans defend Jeter from such blatantly wrong comments about his role with the Yankees or his ability .... right? How dare they defy the backwards logic of the hater. We should just sit here not say a word otherwise. What a crock of shat.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Torre didn't get fired simply because there were enuf folks in the Yankee organization that pointed this out to George.
I think Mets fans would like El Duque because of his success in important post season games. His career, barring serious injury, is far from over.
<< <i>For that umpteenth time and I promise not to say this again, Arod is not the problem with the Yankees, >>
Who
ever said A-Rod was THE problem with the Yankees?
I think you are confusing the great A-Rod debate around here with any other talk about the team itself.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>
he's a mediocre fielder >>
That is just ridiculous. If Jeter is a mediocre fielder, then A-Rod just plain sucks. >>
No, what's ridiculous is, instead of looking at the FACTS and STATISTICS (instead of obviously biased and emotional responses), yankee 'fans' lash back 'well Arod stinks!' Arod had a bad year AT A POSITION THAT'S NOT HIS NORMAL POSITION. Jeter's fielding percentage has ALWAYS been just at the league average for fielding - that's the very definition of MEDIOCRE.
<< <i>And how DARE Yankee fans defend Jeter from such blatantly wrong comments about his role with the Yankees or his ability .... right? How dare they defy the backwards logic of the hater. We should just sit here not say a word otherwise. What a crock of shat. >>
hahah you guys STILL cannot tell me what jeter's responsibilities are as 'captain'! That speaks VOLUMES about what he actually does. Crock of chit? You guys are the EPITOME of it!
Scroll down for the most similar batters to Jeter.
They are not so bold as all of you who know how his stats will finish up in his career.
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ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>zef, Link does not work. And just who is bold about how Jeter ends up zef? Are you not the one with the hammer declaring who he will be fitting in with at the end of his career statistically speaking? Did you not throw up some names earlier?? >>
The names I put up are now seen in that link. He is statistically most like those guys right now.
Who knows if he will get to 3000 hits, 250 HR's yada, yada, yada...
edited to add: The link wouldn't work because there was a : D and it showed up as
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<< <i>Who knows if the sun will come up tomorrow? The point is, based on his age and his recent performance, and his propensity for staying relatively healthy, he has a very good chance of putting up some big numbers. He can easily exceed my expectations that I posted, especially if he hangs on till he is 40. >>
And he could easily tear his knee at the start of next year and have a mere couple hundred AB's left in the league.
Don't belittle with your sun BS. You were the one that was ASSuming.
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Alan Trammell
Joe Torre
Craig Biggio
Roberto Alomar
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
And he could easily tear his knee at the start of next year and have a mere couple hundred AB's left in the league.
>>
And using that logic he could stay healthy and wind up with 3,700 hits at the age of 42.
zef, OF COURSE I am assuming Jeter stays at least relativley healthy. He already has 2,150 hits at the age of 32. I am seeing at worst 5 more season and 3,000 hits are behind him at the age of 37.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>I see six out of 10 batters through his age who are Hall of Famers and the ones who are not?
Alan Trammell
Joe Torre
Craig Biggio
Roberto Alomar >>
The only one that is in the Hall that played in this era is Ryne Sandburg. If you haven't realized the hall has evolved since then and if Jeter is comparable to thos guys of this era, that says a lot more than who he is comparable to from 60-100 years ago.
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<< <i>So, through age 32 he is comparable to 6 HOF'ers. Is that supposed to prove a point that he isnt that good or only average? Im not understanding how this proves your point, in fact just the opposite. >>
Read above.
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<< <i> >>
The only one that is in the Hall that played in this era is Ryne Sandburg. If you haven't realized the hall has evolved since then and if Jeter is comparable to thos guys of this era, that says a lot more than who he is comparable to from 60-100 years ago. >>
huh? evolved into what zef? Nothing but super duper Homerun hitters getting into the Hall? NOTHING has changed regarding the Hall when you are talking about 3,000 and possibly alot more in the hit department.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
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<< <i>I don't really care to engage anymore because I really don't care. Jeter is a very good player. >>
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>If you don't think that Jeter is on the cusp of making the HOF, with or without 3,000 hits, you are just crazy. If he tore his leg tomorrow, as you sickly suggest (and I'm sure you wish just for that), Jeter would probably get the Kirby Puckett treatment. >>
I far from wish it. That inference is more sick than me posing a possible situation which happens with regularity in professional sports. Please don't question my integrity or assume my ill intent. You don't know me.
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<< <i>
I far from wish it. That inference is more sick than me posing a possible situation which happens with regularity in professional sports. Please don't question my integrity or assume my ill intent. You don't know me. >>
zef, this kind of thing is RAMPANT (the norm)around here....... it sux and WELCOME TO THE SPORTS "TALK" FORUM.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>zef, based on the things you write, all I see is a bunch of hating going on. I may not know you, but I can clearly see the hating going on. You clearly wish the guy failure for whatever disturbed reason. And save your holier than thou attitude. I could care less how special or honorable you think you are. It certainly couldn't be deduced based on your disparaging attidue on this forum. >>
I wish you die in a fire. That's not honorable, is it?
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Ridiculous...and you yankee 'fans' wonder why people everywhere despise you? It's not your team, it's successes - IT'S YOU. It's your smug arrogance, it's your absolute refusal to take ANY criticism (especially your god jeter).
<< <i> IT'S YOU. It's your smug arrogance, it's your absolute refusal to take ANY criticism. >>
Oh really?
Tell me more about yourself Ax! Lay down on the couch and TELL
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Buy some perspective. The fact-- and I'm sure it's a fact- is that none of the rest of us give a rat's ass about your little feud, and get sick and tired of seeing it played out in every goddamned thread on this forum. Take to PM's if you just can't get enough of each other-- or better yet, grow up and just quit it. We all have people on these forums that we don't like; that's just the way it is. But most of us are adult enough to keep the name calling and such to a minimum. Maybe you all could learn from our example.
<< <i>Why do you guys insist on hijacking EVERY F**KING THREAD ON THIS FORUM with your stupid, puerile bickering??! Do you think anything is going to change? Does axtell think he's going to sway anyone here to his way of thinking, or do you any of the rest of you think you'll sway axell's. For God's sake, how many of you would be proud of showing your contributions on this forum to your children? "Hey son, see what I do on the computer here in the study? I lob insults back and forth with some stranger who does (or doesn't) like the New York Yankees. When you grow up maybe you'll be man enough to join in too."
Buy some perspective. The fact-- and I'm sure it's a fact- is that none of the rest of us give a rat's ass about your little feud, and get sick and tired of seeing it played out in every goddamned thread on this forum. Take to PM's if you just can't get enough of each other-- or better yet, grow up and just quit it. We all have people on these forums that we don't like; that's just the way it is. But most of us are adult enough to keep the name calling and such to a minimum. Maybe you all could learn from our example. >>
And that is why I hate you.
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Also, unless you point out exactly WHO you are talking about, your "I'm better then you" speal rings pretty hollow
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Both are great players. >>
(Arod and Jeter)
<< <i>Jeter is an average SS pure and simple. >>
How can you follow the first sentence with the second one?
<< <i>
<< <i>Both are great players. >>
(Arod and Jeter)
<< <i>Jeter is an average SS pure and simple. >>
How can you follow the first sentence with the second one? >>
I am assuming he meant he's a great hitter, but average fielder (and he's dead on right about the second part).
That is correct.
<< <i> A-Rod is a Gold Glove SS playing out of position at 3B because Jetes didn't want to move. Jeter is an average SS pure and simple. >>
I love how you guys re-write history man. Jeter was never asked to move ..... why should Jeter just offer to move from his positon becuase A-Rod is coming? A-Rod was told that if he WANTED to be traded he would HAVE to play 3rd base and agreeg IMMEDIATELY. So, everything is Jeters fault with A-Rod. He can't hit because Jeter won't coddle him. He can't field because Jeter did not just offer up a position he has played forever.
Derek Jeter's fielding has NEVER cost the Yankees a thing. You guys blast away at that because there is no other way for yourselves to explain why A-ROd is so messed up in the head.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Without a doubt, We have Jerry who NEVER talks about the team he supposedly roots for and will say whatever it takes no matter how ridiculous ... >>
Dan, I have to call you on this one. You know as well as I do, that I post tons of Red Sox stuff, and always have! I don't flood the forum Spammy-style, but I'm sure you didn't really mean what you said above. Of course, right now, the Yankees are like a soap opera (what else is new?) and it's fun to watch them, and comment on them. They are easy targets.
Zef seems to have a grasp on the Jeter image and how real it is, and isn't - too bad I couldn't find the thread where we laid this out quite nicely before. I think it was from last summer, but there have been so many "Jeter is overrated" threads on here, I have lost track. Summary - Jeter certainly benefits from his surroundings, more than his surroundings benefit from him. He could go to KC tommorrow, and it would be "Derek who?" - and you could plug just about any SS into his old spot, and the Yanks wouldn't miss very much.
They don't call him "Captain Intangibles" for nothing.
And call me out on what Jer? Since the red Sox collapse of the summer there has been CRICKETS about the Red SOx from you. Perk Dog and Connect talked alot about the Sox dismal finish but you clammed up tight. All you would say is .... "Yeah I don't like it , but, Yankees this and Yankees that and Jeter this and Randy that ......
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240