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How Does A Peace$ Tone Like This?
stman
Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
stman
Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I don't know how, but if it was intentional, wouldn't the "toner" choose the obverse and/or a higher quality coin, instead? >>
I don't try to figure out what they choose, or not choose to do, or the stories...... I just try and figure out what I'm looking at.
<< <i>Chemistry? Voodoo? I don't know, but ICG says that it's market acceptable, so who am I to think different? >>
Who are you to think differently from PCI? Probably a very intelligent person.
<< <i>wouldn't the "toner" choose ..... a higher quality coin, instead >>
Why ruin a good coin when the $$ is all in the color and the big 2 won't slab it anyway.
CG
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know how, but if it was intentional, wouldn't the "toner" choose the obverse and/or a higher quality coin, instead? >>
I don't try to figure out what they choose, or not choose to do, or the stories...... I just try and figure out what I'm looking at.
But isn't "what" dependent upon "how" and/or "why"?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't know how, but if it was intentional, wouldn't the "toner" choose the obverse and/or a higher quality coin, instead? >>
I don't try to figure out what they choose, or not choose to do, or the stories...... I just try and figure out what I'm looking at.
But isn't "what" dependent upon "how" and/or "why"?
Depends on what "is" is.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>But isn't "what" dependent upon "how" and/or "why"? >>
In large measure "how" is irrelevant. What matters is the "look." And since the look is not consistent with the many thousands of Peace dollars out there, the coin is questionable, regardless of "how" it came about the "look." Now perhaps if someone opened a mint or Treasury sealed bag* and found others like this, the look would become acceptable because it could be attributed to a known "acceptable" source of toning. But in the absence of that, the how can be left for the chemists to figure out.
CG
*preferably in the presence of CoinGuy or in his absence 47 priests and nuns who sign affidavits as witnesses
<< <i>Now perhaps if someone opened a mint or Treasury sealed bag* and found others like this, >>
Yeah, then the decision would be to submit them in bags, or send them off in tubes.
<< <i>Yeah, then the decision would be to submit them in bags, or send them off in tubes >>
Thus my footnote.
CG
you can get colors like that if rear of coin was setting on certain types of brown cardboard in humid conditions for a few months
Russ, NCNE
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
<< <i>I haven't seen very many wildly toned Peace dollars.
-Amanda >>
I've seen at least one. I believe Russ mentioned it.
<< <i>
<< <i>I haven't seen very many wildly toned Peace dollars.
-Amanda >>
I've seen at least one. I believe Russ mentioned it.
Hmmm, I think I know what you are referring to.
-Amanda
I'm a YN working on a type set!
My Buffalo Nickel Website Home of the Quirky Buffaloes Collection!
Proud member of the CUFYNA
<< <i>It was probably stored in a crusty envelope for 80 years. But, in this case, there were two coins in the envelope so the obverse didn't tone.
Russ, NCNE >>
Wasn't that the coin that NGC slabbed?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I haven't seen very many wildly toned Peace dollars.
-Amanda >>
I've seen at least one. I believe Russ mentioned it.
Hmmm, I think I know what you are referring to.
-Amanda >>
Yeah, I wannabe able to just forget about that whole painful ordeal.
<< <i>It would make perfect sense to me that a doctor would choose a $20 coin to work on- no risk, and a lot of upside still........ >>
Why not tone the obverse? Why not a slightly more expensive coin that would offer far greater upside?
<< <i>
<< <i>Now perhaps if someone opened a mint or Treasury sealed bag* and found others like this, >>
Yeah, then the decision would be to submit them in bags, or send them off in tubes. >>
Edit to add, I understand the point you're making as well, just throwing it back at ya. Heh heh
<< <i>Coinguy1, so if I see lets say a reverse toned Morgan that looks blatant AT, should I assume it's "real" because it doesn't make sense.... and why didn't they tone the obverse to make more money? And also it being a common date. How bout a common cent, nickel? Got change for a quarter?
No, you should not assume anything. But, I think it's a good idea to at least ask why a particular coin would have been AT'd if it looks suspicious.
While this does not apply to the coin in question, recently, I have seen some people question the color on coins where 1) they looked totally original; 2) the color, if artificial, added no value to them whatsoever; and 3) there was no incentive to mess with them.
<< <i>Chemistry? Voodoo? I don't know, but ICG says that it's market acceptable, so who am I to think different? >>
Peace Dollars don't tone like this. Period. In the 1920's, when planchets (more so with larger denominations than smaller ones) were washed at the mint before striking, the solution used to wash them was slightly acidic to make the planchets shiny. When the coins were dried, an acidic film remained on the coins acting almost like a toning barrier.
This coin is what I like to call artifically natural toned. My theory is as follows: The person who toned this coin first dipped the coin to remove the coin's original skin, as well as that acidic film. The coin was then put in a hot environment intoxicated with Hydrogen Sulfide. Hydrogen Sulfide is the gas that causes mint bag toning as well as almost all other natural toning. The heat speeds up the toning process. The coin was toned using the gas that naturally tone silver, except the heat sped up the process so that it could be done or minutes, not years.
This is just my theory
Oh yeah, cool Pedigree too.
UofA1285/Doug Beaver - consignor of subject Peace dollar.
<< <i>Well, it is very pretty in hand and looks exactly like the pics. The colors are indeed wild and I have only seen one other close to these colors in another ICG slab. It has really wonderful eye appeal and is a fun coin! I agree that the AT v. NT argument is important, especially when it comes to big bucks but...shouldn't this be a little bit about fun too?
Oh yeah, cool Pedigree too.
UofA1285/Doug Beaver - consignor of subject Peace dollar. >>
Hey a "fun" coin. Ya see I never thought about it that way. Got it. This was over 300.00 worth of "fun." Thanks for clearing this up.
Fun coin
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, it is very pretty in hand and looks exactly like the pics. The colors are indeed wild and I have only seen one other close to these colors in another ICG slab. It has really wonderful eye appeal and is a fun coin! I agree that the AT v. NT argument is important, especially when it comes to big bucks but...shouldn't this be a little bit about fun too?
Oh yeah, cool Pedigree too.
UofA1285/Doug Beaver - consignor of subject Peace dollar. >>
Hey a "fun" coin. Ya see I never thought about it that way. Got it. This was over 300.00 worth of "fun." Thanks for clearing this up.
Fun coin >>
Well, with any luck, this current Peace dollar will be TWICE as "fun" as that PCI Peace dollar!
Doug
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, it is very pretty in hand and looks exactly like the pics. The colors are indeed wild and I have only seen one other close to these colors in another ICG slab. It has really wonderful eye appeal and is a fun coin! I agree that the AT v. NT argument is important, especially when it comes to big bucks but...shouldn't this be a little bit about fun too?
Oh yeah, cool Pedigree too.
UofA1285/Doug Beaver - consignor of subject Peace dollar. >>
Hey a "fun" coin. Ya see I never thought about it that way. Got it. This was over 300.00 worth of "fun." Thanks for clearing this up.
Fun coin >>
Well, with any luck, this current Peace dollar will be TWICE as "fun" as that PCI Peace dollar!
Doug >>
Always glad to help. Heh Heh
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i> Well, with any luck, this current Peace dollar will be TWICE as "fun" as that PCI Peace dollar! >>
Turning a $12 coin into a $300 coin sure must be a whole lot of fun. Of course since the guys selling these things are board members here its all just good clean fun. They’re board members after all, members of the Circle of Trust, so their wares are good as gold as far as I’m concerned. Forget all that stuff I said about that coin not looking right and all. That was before I realized the sellers were board members. Silly me, I thought it was just some ebay mercenaries. Someone should have said something sooner. What was I thinking. After all, I’m a board member too. You all know me, CalGold. Why I’ve posted here a whole bunch of times. Yes sir, good ‘ol CalGold, that’s me.
Just so there’s no hard feelings, tell you what I’m going to do. I’m going to let you boys in on a special deal I’ve got going here. Now this is a limited supply offering and its going fast so don’t delay. Order today.. Each bottle comes with a no money back guarantee.
Thought it might make an interesting conversation piece.
<< <i> Of course since the guys selling these things are board members here its all just good clean fun. They’re board members after all, members of the Circle of Trust, so their wares are good as gold as far as I’m concerned. Forget all that stuff I said about that coin not looking right and all. That was before I realized the sellers were board members. >>
I don't think it is fair to fault the seller in this case. The seller states up front that, "I don't make 'em, I
just sell 'em!". Also, the seller has made no claims as to the originality of the toning.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
A friend of mine is going to China. I'll have him pick up a bunch of fake Trade dollars while he's there so that I can sell them on ebay. I'm going to charge $300 each, which is OK since I didn't make them and I'm not going to guarantee authenticity. How many are you in for?
CG
<< <i>Bushmaster,
A friend of mine is going to China. I'll have him pick up a bunch of fake Trade dollars while he's there so that I can sell them on ebay. I'm going to charge $300 each, which is OK since I didn't make them and I'm not going to guarantee authenticity. How many are you in for?
CG >>
CG, I don't claim to know precisely where the line should be drawn in a number of situations. However, I believe that there is a huge difference between offering coins for sale that you KNOW are counterfeit (or even that you KNOW have been artificially toned) vs. offering certified coins for sale that you have questions about/suspect might be AT.
A delaer makes or brakes his reputation based on the authenticity and quality of his inventory. Its the old shingle theory. Hang out your shingle and you should be held to standards of professionalism. Remember Laura's point about how wannabes bury their clients?
Those coins are lepers. Now you can say that there are enough red flags that anyone who bites for $300 deserves to get burned, and that $300 is not big money, but $300 is a lot to most collectors (we get jaded here by guys posting five and six figure coins). I cannot read men's minds, but when I see this kind of material hawked by guys who "specialize" in toned coins my gut reaction is that they care not if the buyer gets burned.
CG
>>>
Yeah BUTT, weren't they rinsed in boiling water and dries by tumbling in sawdust? If perhaps one did bypass this step then it should be the same on both sides. Besides, wouldn't an acidic film tarnish the surfaces, rather than prevent it from tarnishing?
Since the subject of this thread is HOW, I'll say from a 1 sided album like a whitman folder, or being obv down on a baking sheet.
<<<Why not tone the obverse? Why not a slightly more expensive coin that would offer far greater upside? >>>
Not everybody is greedy and looking for the greatest upside. I would be happy with turning a $20 white coin into a $1,000 rev toned coin. What would that be, something like 5,000% return on investment? If I got greedy and started turning $20 white coins into $2,000 obv toned coins it wouldn't take long before yall busted me.
consignments of toned coins, should be expected to screen out coins that respected (well, somewhat
respected, I'll give you that!) TPG's have slabbed, and return them to the consignor as unacceptable if
that dealer deems them to be questionable?
Seems like that would be a wee bit pompous on the part of the dealer, IMO.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>So a dealer that is well known as a seller of toned coins, and is widely known for accepting
consignments of toned coins, should be expected to screen out coins that respected (well, somewhat
respected, I'll give you that!) TPG's have slabbed, and return them to the consignor as unacceptable if
that dealer deems them to be questionable? >>
If the major auction companies did that their sales would be quite a bit smaller in size.
<< <i>So a dealer that is well known as a seller of toned coins, and is widely known for accepting
consignments of toned coins, should be expected to screen out coins that respected (well, somewhat
respected, I'll give you that!) TPG's have slabbed, and return them to the consignor as unacceptable if
that dealer deems them to be questionable?
Seems like that would be a wee bit pompous on the part of the dealer, IMO. >>
Yes, a dealer should. Any real dealer would.
and remember...
it's all about profit.
hi, i'm tom.
i do not doctor coins like some who post in here.
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, it is very pretty in hand and looks exactly like the pics. The colors are indeed wild and I have only seen one other close to these colors in another ICG slab. It has really wonderful eye appeal and is a fun coin! I agree that the AT v. NT argument is important, especially when it comes to big bucks but...shouldn't this be a little bit about fun too?
Oh yeah, cool Pedigree too.
UofA1285/Doug Beaver - consignor of subject Peace dollar. >>
Hey a "fun" coin. Ya see I never thought about it that way. Got it. This was over 300.00 worth of "fun." Thanks for clearing this up.
Fun coin >>
Gad, the Fugly obverse negates any "fun" you might have with the colorful reverse
Joe
P.S. I would suggest sellers post two or three photos of these type coins in the ad. Different angles and lighting often is the key to determining how NATURAL or unnatural the toning is.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
It would have made a good conversation piece for sure, but since this thread has started the bidding has taken it above what I was willing to spend.
Notice I didn't say "for a long time." One would think that over a long time, long enough to turn the left side dark green, blur & red the right side should be darker than light yellow; also a Whitman folder's coins would be in contact with paper on both sides, so a very long time should have had effect on the obv as well.
I know the question of this thread isn't " AT or NT" but "How" so I'm just saying. I don't belong to anybody's "Circle of Jerk" so my opinions aren't biased.
<< <i>Hey a "fun" coin. Ya see I never thought about it that way. Got it. This was over 300.00 worth of "fun." Thanks for clearing this up.
Fun coin >>
Hey, where'd the images in that auction go? They were there a few minutes ago.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Mark,
A delaer makes or brakes his reputation based on the authenticity and quality of his inventory. Its the old shingle theory. Hang out your shingle and you should be held to standards of professionalism. Remember Laura's point about how wannabes bury their clients?
Those coins are lepers. Now you can say that there are enough red flags that anyone who bites for $300 deserves to get burned, and that $300 is not big money, but $300 is a lot to most collectors (we get jaded here by guys posting five and six figure coins). I cannot read men's minds, but when I see this kind of material hawked by guys who "specialize" in toned coins my gut reaction is that they care not if the buyer gets burned.
CG >>
You opine as if you know beyond a shadow of a doubt the coin is AT. You simply CAN'T make that conclusion unless you have first hand knowledge of the origin of the coin's toning. Any learned debater understands to be careful of making statements in the absolute unless they have the indisputable facts to back them up. Else, the reckless debater (you, in this case) has the appearance of a differnent agenda/bias - i.e. prejudice against all toning in general.
Doug